SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[thetriplerhyme]

Yeah the creators were clearly flirting with the idea of Clerith but leaving it ambiguous enough that it's nothing set in stone.

- I argue one CA once on this line! I super agree CA is being ambiguous enough because some people believe it. But since its not canon and just part of the story it doesnt have enough background / backbone to support.

CA said - so why do you think they made it to waste money?? Are you kidding me
ME: because there are delusionals like you who believe it~ since you're believing it they're making it for you (they're buying the game anyway)

but again no substance ( its ambiguous NO HISTORY NO BACKSTORY they just met! the girl fell in love and the guy has someone in his heart already but mentally challenge - copying or mimicking the girls ex boyfriend ) There are people who still believing it soo they making it anywayz ( sucks ) but hence IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE --> purposely made ambiguous so it wont disturb the story.

hence I think it soley because of that SENA is made that way..

==================================

its different with Zerith though they have a backstory and how they met ( Crisis Core) and spend time together to fell in love - not to mention with future FF7

with CA even in OG 'certain conversation or actions doesnt make any sense for me~"

 

[sunshine1991]

This is an interesting argument few have the cojones to address, mostly because Tifa turns them on (or they self-insert as Tifa) which means she's a flawless princess that can do no wrong, all character flaws are something else's fault.
And I quote, from some external video:

The biggest plot twist of the game is that Tifa did not accept Cloud at his worst, more like she didn't care.
If Tifa did accept Cloud at his worst (Nibelheim) none of this would've happened.
Tifa both accidentally helped saving the world (Cloud's thirst is what stops Sephiroth) and caused most of Cloud's problems (he would have never been injured and tortured if she gave him a little bit of attention).

Tifa in the lifestream is a textbook example of "You break it, you buy it".

Wow can’t believe there’s people that think like this about Tifa. I’m women and Tifa is my favourite FFVII character since I was a kid. As a women I like her so much. Yes, she is pretty and hot but she is more than that. She is bad ass but still feminine which I like a lot. Most of FF heroines usually princess type and white mage but Tifa is special for me since she is super strong and a martial artist.

Tifa accept Cloud in any condition. She likes Cloud even if he wasn’t a soldiers, she nursed Cloud in the beginning of the game, she also fixed cloud in the end, in AC she also so patient with Cloud depression. She loves him unconditionally. Too said that she only loves Cloud at his best is a reach

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Can’t wait for the Ultimania’s to come out and inevitably clarify and define a lot of the context and intent of certain scenes. This is one of the few franchises or series where you need a book to come out explaining the developers meaning behind things to dispel all the bad faith readings and wilful misinterpretations.

Also anticipating them saying all the Gold Saucer dates canonically happened, much the same way all of Remake’s resolution scenes happened.

If Cloud was made to be woken up three times in one night, they’ll for sure be fine making the poor lad go on six Skywheel rides in one night.

 

[Aurenare]

she didn't care.
If Tifa did accept Cloud at his worst

(he would have never been injured and tortured if she gave him a little bit of attention

"If the girls at my high school had given me any attention, I wouldn't have had to get an automatic rifle and mass shot them".

Some incel vibes are we having around here.

Nobody, NOBODY is entitled to another person's attention. Nor care.

And what makes these statements more egregious is that you are blaming and burdening a literal CHILD. Get a grip, people.

Signed: a pissed off lurker and mother.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Relevant-

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764167321147609358

I feel like it might have went and had some of the opposite effect though and Aerith is less loved after Rebirth and feels overshadowed for a lot of the game, with many wondering why her character wasn't improved and why scenes from OG were missing, and I'm not sure that was the intention. That it was said they would have equal time before it came out but once players played they didn't really think that and praised Tifa a lot and didn't care that Aerith

Spoiler

died or not

, it feels like a lot of the same sadness is gone this time.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I feel like it might have went and had some of the opposite effect though and Aerith is less loved after Rebirth and feels overshadowed for a lot of the game, with many wondering why her character wasn't improved and why scenes from OG were missing, and I'm not sure that was the intention. That it was said they would have equal time but once players played they didn't really think that and praised Tifa a lot and didn't care that Aerith

Spoiler

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They're focusing on romantic scenes with Cloud. They actually expanded her connections with the rest of the team. How she understand everybody's pain. Cloud's the only thing she have puzzle connecting because he's being a pain but eitherway he accompanied her.

They actually put them on mini dates going and stuff. They put an emphasis on important scenes with her. Unlike with OG this is highlighted scenes with her because they're emphasis is to make player love them so her death will definitely hurt.

Of course in Rebirth they didn't need to do all that people are expecting her death already. Just how to execute it~

They expanded on last date' as last goodbye and do the deed on Forgotten City. ( buut to be honest ~ even as a cloti I might have preferred the OG death though dont know why they changed it ( but i'm parking this for now ) maybe this is a plan for part 3.

Eitherway its expected.

What people didnt expect is Tifa's story and to show more of her struggles and pains and of course THE GS KISS.

 

[Empyrea]

Personally, Aerith's death never impacted me. Not because of the character herself, but the fact that I played FF7 late. Even though I wasn't spoiled of that bit, I had already played plenty of games where a character dies.

What didn't help, I feel, was that this time around, they put so much spotlight on the fact that she dies.

Personally, I would've preferred if they focused more on Aerith's Cetra heritage and the lead up to her praying for holy. Her unique appeal to me was that she had a plot all to herself that meshes with the others but can stand equally on its own. That's something not a lot of female characters can brag about.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Personally, Aerith's death never impacted me. Not because of the character herself, but the fact that I played FF7 late. Even though I wasn't spoiled of that bit, I had already played plenty of games where a character dies.

- OH saame! Even in OG sorry i dont know back then why this is soo much issue. Well I have issues with OG Aerith since i never understand her back then.

- Back in Remake i actually thought maybe her death make me cry this time same on how I cried sooo much for Zack in CC. But honestly the entire scene is too weird for me ~ when the deed happened I just want it to be over.

 

[slimo6464]

but once players played they didn't really think that and praised Tifa a lot and didn't care that Aerith

Spoiler

died or not

, it feels like a lot of the same sadness is gone this time.

Spoiler

That's because her death scene was awful this time. It happened almost entirely offscreen and then her ghost/hallucination/alternate timeline version/whatever shows up and its like she never even left. Of course people didn't care. Aerith's death was effective because when she was gone, she was gone. Also it helps to actually see her die. The devs used her death to create a dumb mystery box to fuel speculation for the next four years and let aerith fans delude themselves into thinking she'll come back so they'll buy part 3.

 

[faefolk]

Relevant-

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764167321147609358

I feel like it might have went and had some of the opposite effect though and Aerith is less loved after Rebirth and feels overshadowed for a lot of the game, with many wondering why her character wasn't improved and why scenes from OG were missing, and I'm not sure that was the intention. That it was said they would have equal time before it came out but once players played they didn't really think that and praised Tifa a lot and didn't care that Aerith

Spoiler

died or not

, it feels like a lot of the same sadness is gone this time.

I don't think the plan was to take away from Aerith. I think it's more that in the OG all the focus is on Aerith but the final part has Tifa kind of coming out of left field as a leading heroine and this time they're trying to empathize her equal importance to the narrative. I also honestly think they wanted the build up of Cloud and Tifas relationship to feel much more natural this time too. Because they've shifted the narrative towards Aerith having more internal conflict about Zack, actually added Zack in to remind us he exists constantly and that he loves Aerith - and they've given us a really clear cut narrative build up to both why Tifas faith in Cloud matters so much for him (for the final part when he totally shatters) and how they end up so connected in the LS sequence and under the high wind.
They said prior to the release of the game that they wanted to make things more clearcut this time and I definitely think it includes the LTD and specifically Tifas depiction in general. So much emphasis is put on Aeriths heroine status because of her status as an Ancient - but Tifa is equally important to the narrative, especially in the final act

 

[faefolk]

Spoiler

That's because her death scene was awful this time. It happened almost entirely offscreen and then her ghost/hallucination/alternate timeline version/whatever shows up and its like she never even left. Of course people didn't care. Aerith's death was effective because when she was gone, she was gone. Also it helps to actually see her die. The devs used her death to create a dumb mystery box to fuel speculation for the next four years and let aerith fans delude themselves into thinking she'll come back so they'll buy part 3.

I feel like I'm one of the only people who didn't hate the end. I also didn't read it as

Spoiler

Aerith surviving at all

but rather the focus being on the deterioration of

Spoiler

Clouds mental state - which seemed to be in more focus than the original. Personally I'm happy with that change as Clouds struggle with his identity was the most compelling part of the OG for me.

Aerith is definitely dead. I assume the ultimania will confirm this. I didn't even think for a second we were meant to think she's alive - because this game has gone heavy on Clouds descent into madness. And Barret and Tifa very clearly have a silent communication in the final scene that says he's off his rocker.

Idk I'm happy with the end and I trust the creators to do the job right in the final game. Remember this is a complete story and we're only 2/3 through. It's normal to not know everything just not. When you read a book you're trusting the authors with the characters and the story. It's the same thing here.

 

[r_monk]

This is an interesting argument few have the cojones to address, mostly because Tifa turns them on (or they self-insert as Tifa) which means she's a flawless princess that can do no wrong, all character flaws are something else's fault.
And I quote, from some external video:

The biggest plot twist of the game is that Tifa did not accept Cloud at his worst, more like she didn't care.
If Tifa did accept Cloud at his worst (Nibelheim) none of this would've happened.
Tifa both accidentally helped saving the world (Cloud's thirst is what stops Sephiroth) and caused most of Cloud's problems (he would have never been injured and tortured if she gave him a little bit of attention).

Tifa in the lifestream is a textbook example of "You break it, you buy it".

This is an interesting argument few have the cojones to address, mostly because Tifa turns them on (or they self-insert as Tifa) which means she's a flawless princess that can do no wrong, all character flaws are something else's fault.
And I quote, from some external video:

The biggest plot twist of the game is that Tifa did not accept Cloud at his worst, more like she didn't care.
If Tifa did accept Cloud at his worst (Nibelheim) none of this would've happened.
Tifa both accidentally helped saving the world (Cloud's thirst is what stops Sephiroth) and caused most of Cloud's problems (he would have never been injured and tortured if she gave him a little bit of attention).

Tifa in the lifestream is a textbook example of "You break it, you buy it".

This shit again. The whole irony behind the Cloud and Tifa trope of "weird loner tried hard to win the approval of popular girl who won't give him the time of day" is that she literally liked him as a normal boy and, as an astoundingly consistent and down-to-earth character, accepted and loved him as he was, regardless of whether or not he considered himself a "failure." To her, he never was.

And the updates in Remake and Rebirth go even further with that—even at a young age, Tifa never needed Cloud to prove himself to her; that was all him. That's their whole effing arc!!!! That he can be himself with her, not some idealized version. I don't know what or why you're projecting onto Tifa, but this is getting ridiculous.

 

[billy22]

I feel like it might have went and had some of the opposite effect though and Aerith is less loved after Rebirth and feels overshadowed for a lot of the game, with many wondering why her character wasn't improved and why scenes from OG were missing,

What Aerith scenes are missing from the OG?

and I'm not sure that was the intention. That it was said they would have equal time before it came out but once players played they didn't really think that and praised Tifa a lot and didn't care that Aerith

Spoiler

died or not

, it feels like a lot of the same sadness is gone this time.

Tbf, they said they would have equal screentime, not equal romance. People just kind of filled in that blank themselves (And they do have equal screentime). I don't know what makes you say players "didn't care if Aerith died or not," when many of the people talking about Rebirth are not only older but have already played the OG and are not surprised by it. Harder to be affected by something the same way you were over 20 years ago.

As for Tifa overshadowing her, Tifa is just really popular, and being alive helps with that. But we should wait until part 3, because Aerith is definitely going to get a lot more to do than she did in OG past disc 1.

 

[eleamaya]

Btw, I'm just reminded of something in FFXIII since the devs are same people (except Nojima, I guess?), Not many people love Snow so I get why they ship Serah with Noel instead in the sequel since the two is lead male and lead female here. But this is just a matter of preference, I could accept not all people love Zack as Aerith's pair just like people dont like Snow with Serah if Clerith shippers didn't try to twist anything. I never see people debate over which one Serah and Noel love romantically in canon. But this ending moment still heartbreaking to some.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Aerith's death was effective because when she was gone, she was gone. Also it helps to actually see her die. The devs used her death to create a dumb mystery box to fuel speculation for the next four years and let aerith fans delude themselves into thinking she'll come back so they'll buy part 3.

- I KNOW!!! Her death is effective because there's noo way to return her back in OG~ ( I personally think the impaling scene is not shown before if rating purposes we're 4K guys.. I never expected it honestly). I think a lot of people debated it a whole lot before and I was surprise Nomura agreed because he define Aerith death " something soo awful just happened. When someone is gone.. they're gone."

but same with @faefolk

Idk I'm happy with the end and I trust the creators to do the job right in the final game. Remember this is a complete story and we're only 2/3 through. It's normal to not know everything just not. When you read a book you're trusting the authors with the characters and the story. It's the same thing here.

- I trust devs too her death may have been creepy but she's gone. For me ending IS CREEPY but not soo bad I kinda liked it~

 

[A-to-Z]

Spoiler

(referencing Rebirth ending spoilers)

My theory is we’ll get a flashback highlighting how Aerith (and Zack) actually died while Cloud is regaining his real identity (or maybe afterwards?) since he seems to have repressed both their deaths in the same way, I think what the devs are doing is just moving the emotional part later, since the loss of Zack and Aerith left equivalent damage to Cloud, so why not tell the accurate series of events of their deaths when he’s most vulnerable? How he lost the person who died protecting him, and the person who died because he felt that he couldn’t protect her, respectively.

And I think aerith’s death not being adapted 1 to 1 also alludes to her having an important role in part 3 that she’s obviously going to get, something unique or expanded from the OG, so in a way as an aerith fan I’m still excited for what’s to come because that implies she’s going to have more added scenes after her death. I’m trying to look at it in a more optimistic way, since I personally haven’t felt betrayed by the devs yet, from the spoilers that I’ve seen.

I think the scene with cloud laying aerith in the water did actually happen (albeit offscreen), either cloud just hasn’t taken it in/doesn’t remember it or wasn’t aware of the emotional gravity of that situation, but there’s still a chance we’ll get to see it later. Seems to me that Cloud with the soldier persona developed more violent tendencies and became less empathetic, like jenova is actively warping his perception and as a consequence, making him lose his ability to feel loss, so he’s out of touch with his emotions. Compared to when jessie died, he felt pain when he saw Tifa cry, but now he shows no signs of wanting to comfort her when she seems to be the most broken over Aerith’s death. He’ll realize eventually that he’s not the only one who lost Aerith, the entire party did too.

Cloud at the ending of rebirth reminds me of how Aerith described sephiroth in the ending of remake:
“All these moments and memories, precious and fleeting...they're like rain rolling off his back... And when they're gone, he won't cry...or shout...or anything.”

And ngl maybe it’s just because I’m an aerith stan but her voice and dialogue while she was praying (while cloud was walking up the stairs) still made me cry, the voice acting and the writing was so good in that specific moment

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I know they're going to show their deaths maybe in 3rd installment but as long as they wont do it on LS scene it has nothing to do it on that part ~

 

[JaeKony]

I don't think the plan was to take away from Aerith. I think it's more that in the OG all the focus is on Aerith but the final part has Tifa kind of coming out of left field as a leading heroine and this time they're trying to empathize her equal importance to the narrative. I also honestly think they wanted the build up of Cloud and Tifas relationship to feel much more natural this time too. Because they've shifted the narrative towards Aerith having more internal conflict about Zack, actually added Zack in to remind us he exists constantly and that he loves Aerith - and they've given us a really clear cut narrative build up to both why Tifas faith in Cloud matters so much for him (for the final part when he totally shatters) and how they end up so connected in the LS sequence and under the high wind.
They said prior to the release of the game that they wanted to make things more clearcut this time and I definitely think it includes the LTD and specifically Tifas depiction in general. So much emphasis is put on Aeriths heroine status because of her status as an Ancient - but Tifa is equally important to the narrative, especially in the final act

This is a great take!

Aerith is the heroine of the external plot (Holy and Meteor) and Tifa is the heroine of the internal plot (Cloud’s mental state)

Now that I think about it, I like how the ending of Rebirth reinforces and hints towards the roles both heroines will play in the Part 3:

Spoiler

Aerith telling Cloud “I’ll put everything I got into my prayers, I’ll stop the Meteor”
and Tifa showing how concerned she is for Cloud’s current mental state

 

[starcape91]

The latest take that is gaining some traction with the hardcores is that they did Tifa dirty by putting the kiss behind an optional scene and that Aerith’s GS date is canon because it’s referenced several times afterwards. The individual who started talking about this said they were a “non shipper” and then proceeded to say that Aerith’s date should’ve been mandatory the first playthrough and then you can experience the “fun” ones later.

I agree that Aerith’s date is relevant to what is left in the game by that point. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Tifa and Cloud’s date doesn’t get mentioned afterwards. What’s after the GS date? The Temple of the Ancients and The Forgotten Capitol. Why would Tifa be like “hey Cloud remember we kissed?” That would be tone deaf.

 

[Empyrea]

Not just tone deaf but it would also break the promise that the gals would have equal spotlight.

It's Aerith's part of the plot, so the focus should be on her. Referencing the kiss there has no place in those last parts, imo.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

The latest take that is gaining some traction with the hardcores is that they did Tifa dirty by putting the kiss behind an optional scene and that Aerith’s GS date is canon because it’s referenced several times afterwards. The individual who started talking about this said they were a “non shipper” and then proceeded to say that Aerith’s date should’ve been mandatory the first playthrough and then you can experience the “fun” ones later.

I agree that Aerith’s date is relevant to what is left in the game by that point. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Tifa and Cloud’s date doesn’t get mentioned afterwards. What’s after the GS date? The Temple of the Ancients and The Forgotten Capitol. Why would Tifa be like “hey Cloud remember we kissed?” That would be tone deaf.

None of the multiple resolution scenes from Remake got mentions in the story after they happened, but they were important for character development, and each helped move the character’s and their relationships along. They build from them, and it’s the same with the Gold Saucer dates.

None of them have much bearing on the plot going forward, like in the original, because going forward like you said things move very quickly plot wise, and the narrative is pushed to the front.

But the resolutions and gold saucer dates are essential for ALL the characters involved, and help pave the way forward for their respective developments and arc endpoints in Part 3.

 

[starcape91]

Takes like that always seem to come from “non shippers”. And I think generally, they’re being dishonest about not being shippers lol

A lot of these same people are Cloud x Sephiroth shippers too. I’m sorry but what? Sephiroth murdered Cloud’s mother. That’s disgusting to me. Can someone explain the thought process behind that?

 

[Ryeleigh]

A lot of these same people are Cloud x Sephiroth shippers too. I’m sorry but what? Sephiroth murdered Cloud’s mother. That’s disgusting to me. Can someone explain the thought process behind that?

Two hot characters who are seemingly obsessed with each other which is interpreted as homoeroticism? I honestly don't think many of them put much more thought into it than that, lol.

 

[starcape91]

Two hot characters who are seemingly obsessed with each other which is interpreted as homoeroticism? I honestly don't think many of them put much more thought into it than that, lol.

Ah, okay.

 

[GamerSkull]

The latest take that is gaining some traction with the hardcores is that they did Tifa dirty by putting the kiss behind an optional scene and that Aerith’s GS date is canon because it’s referenced several times afterwards. The individual who started talking about this said they were a “non shipper” and then proceeded to say that Aerith’s date should’ve been mandatory the first playthrough and then you can experience the “fun” ones later.

I agree that Aerith’s date is relevant to what is left in the game by that point. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Tifa and Cloud’s date doesn’t get mentioned afterwards. What’s after the GS date? The Temple of the Ancients and The Forgotten Capitol. Why would Tifa be like “hey Cloud remember we kissed?” That would be tone deaf.

Seem like copium to me.

Spoiler

And yeah, there just isn’t enough time post-GS for the dust to settle. In fact, have a feeling that Tifa and Cloud won’t have a chance to talk about it until the Highwind scene now since Tifa isn’t gonna bring it up while Cloud is mourning Aerith and he’ll break down in the Northern Cave.