SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Hix]

Literally, just ask them why Aerith doesn't get any "optional" kissing in this game. That is the major blow that they can't dance around.

The HA Highwind scene in the next game will 100% have some kissing in it. Whether it's still optional I couldn't say, but if Aerith doesn't get some smooching of her own? Oh boy.

What a strange message for Square to be sending. Cloud kissing Tifa in two separate games, and yet he doesn't seem to be interested in doing the same with Aerith, the girl he supposedly is actually in love with.

Consider too the fact that Cloud kissing Tifa destroys the narrative that he's too cold and awkward for that and can only express feelings of romantic love with mundane stuff that can easily be interpreted otherwise, like hand holding or gift buying.

In fact, CT nearly kiss before this too but for an impatient, on-looking Yuffie trying to hurry them along.

The goal posts, as I said before, for what is considered romantic behaviour by Cloud have moved - because he's very much shown he's not afraid to be flirty ("beautiful" in Remake) or passionate (literal kiss in Rebirth) if it's with the right person.

 

[faefolk]

But these same people are also using trophy names and the pictures of said trophies as also being evidence to support their argument

But won’t use any of the dialogue from the church scene or anything from the Sector 5 date at all, I wonder why that is? [/SPOILER]

I've noticed that they're really only showing gifs and pictures from Loveless. Also

Spoiler

still sharing the out of context bit where she falls into him right before he backs away and sits back down and faces the other way lmao. Plus them holding hands right before she disappears.

Idk they seem set on misrepresenting a lot. It's like the romance videos being put up on YouTube. They skip the photographer completely lmao. Like I'm Sorry but they need to realise that there is a reason they have to cherry pick moments so much.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Nothing ever changes.

The argument goes like this: if we pretend Aerith didn't die, ignore the scenes were Cloud is disinterested in a romantic relationship with her, pretend like scenes where Cloud is interested in a romantic relationship with Tifa don't count, pray that Zack just goes away again and disregard any/all supplementary material for the franchise then obviously Clerith is canon (spoiler: it still isn't)

There's less people that think like this now, thankfully, but there'll always be some absolutely willing to do anything - even deconstruct Cloud, Zack, Tifa and Aerith's entire characters and the media they are contained in - to insure their ship is the truth.

This isn't coming from a place of maliciousness, but delusion. People start from a position of "CA is canon and is the singular most important part of the entire Final Fantasy VII franchise" and reinterpret (but mostly just ignore) everything else in light of that.



I think the simplest explanation is the Devs intended for the player to experience all the GS dates. There's key character development in all of them and they actually kinda compliment each other.

Indeed, that's the LTD in a microcosm. CT comes along and says fine, have all your CA moments, it doesn't bother me. CA has to systematically attack every single CT moment to validate their ship.

That last paragraph of yours absolutely nails it.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I've noticed that they're really only showing gifs and pictures from Loveless. Also

Spoiler

still sharing the out of context bit where she falls into him right before he backs away and sits back down and faces the other way lmao. Plus them holding hands right before she disappears.

Idk they seem set on misrepresenting a lot. It's like the romance videos being put up on YouTube. They skip the photographer completely lmao. Like I'm Sorry but they need to realise that there is a reason they have to cherry pick moments so much.

I mean the Loveless play really has very little variation between Aerith, Tifa, or Yuffie as Princess Rosa

Spoiler

All three get the “near kiss” moment, as far as I’m aware so, plus it’s nature as a virtual reality simulation, I really don’t think the Loveless play is the strong evidence for anyone that some think it is, the actual dates on the Skywheel on the other hand

 

[faefolk]

The goal posts, as I said before, for what is considered romantic behaviour by Cloud have moved - because he's very much shown he's not afraid to be flirty ("beautiful" in Remake) or passionate (literal kiss in Rebirth) if it's with the right person.

So much this! The argument I keep seeing in regards to this is 'he's acting so out of character in the GS date - that's not our Cloud'
But these people willfully ignore

Spoiler

the almost kiss, the way he kneels by her bedside, him calling her beautiful, the Devs saying he thought he'd get to make a move when Tifa came to his room, him hugging her, comforting her physically in Nibelheim, walking hand in hand with her (without being dragged along lmao) in the first part of the GS, initiating a handhold during Aeriths song etc.
And the fact that he very much is still awkward and like himself even when he's being smooth. There is always that distinctive Cloud-like innocence to his behaviour.

And I understand some of those scenes are optional but the same is true of every character and that doesn't make the character building and relationship building any less valid.

 

[faefolk]

I mean the Loveless play really has very little variation between Aerith, Tifa, or Yuffie as Princess Rosa

Spoiler

All three get the “near kiss” moment, as far as I’m aware so, plus it’s nature as a virtual reality simulation, I really don’t think the Loveless play is the strong evidence for anyone that some think it is, the actual dates on the Skywheel on the other hand

True. The only real variation is

Spoiler

during Aeriths song when Cloud clasps Tifas hand. Although the differences in the spins is weirdly fascinating to me haha. Yuffies is very in character and silly, Aeriths is very performative and neat and Tifa just gets absolutely dragged into Cloud and then spun I swear he is so rough with her.

So I'm assuming the big thing they have with Loveless is that she's most often cast as Rosa.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Sadly, I can sort of understand the backlash. I personally think Aerith is just really, really flirtatious and is just trying to gauge her feelings for Cloud. But honestly, that's kinda Remake's fault, I think. While it's possibly not the intended read, it can definitely come off as a bad thing because Remake implied she knew. Ask anyone with no context of FF7 and most of them would probably say they'd sooner drop her than try to understand why she's flirting with a guy she knows her friend is interested in.

In the social circles I've been in, that type of thing is considered underhanded.

- and one most recent one i can't seemed to deny anymore is her take on jessie's that's.. just off..

Spoiler: SPOILER

 

[faefolk]

- and one most recent one i can't seemed to deny anymore is her take on jessie's that's.. just off..


View attachment 14724

Man... This is one of the scenes that really made me angry too I'm not gonna lie. I actually liked Aerith in CC and Remake but I have not enjoyed her much at all in Rebirth. This was so tactless. It could have been a good moment to build some actual emotional connection between these two and it didn't. She's just yammering on about romance again. It's bleh.

 

[Legend45]

- and one most recent one i can't seemed to deny anymore is her take on jessie's that's.. just off..


View attachment 14724

Oh I actually saw this tweet I don't know if SENA mistranslated it but Aerith's dialogue came off as tone deaf. Cloud literally told her she's dead and the first thing she thinks of is if Jesse has feelings for him and he never found out it just comes off as very uncomfortable? Now we know Aerith can sense spirits and she probably knows her feelings but still it's clear Cloud needed comfort in that momment rather than whatever that was.

 

[Empyrea]

Takes like that always seem to come from “non shippers”. And I think generally, they’re being dishonest about not being shippers lol

I've always taken it as a given that these "non-shippers" are being dishonest, as you said here x3

They care too much about a topic their label suggests that they shouldn't. The actual non-shippers I met never once talked about the LTD (or any of the nuances of the story beats, really) and would often just ask if I found this really rare item (the KoTR summon and the Master Materia in OG) and beat Ruby and Emerald weapons, along with what materia set-up and at what level.

 

[shady]

I mean the Loveless play really has very little variation between Aerith, Tifa, or Yuffie as Princess Rosa

Spoiler

All three get the “near kiss” moment, as far as I’m aware so, plus it’s nature as a virtual reality simulation, I really don’t think the Loveless play is the strong evidence for anyone that some think it is, the actual dates on the Skywheel on the other hand

The only big difference i’m aware of is

Spoiler

Cloud will stand on the side with Tifa and hold her hand whilst Aerith is singing. That and when Cloud spins Rosa, he’s a bit more “aggressive” with Tifa, spinning her quicker and touching her a little more.

The hand holding is an exact replica of the hand holding in The Greatest Showman, scene for scene, which is what the whole sequence is based off of (same singer and everything)

 

[r_monk]

Slightly off topic but I’m at the part where

Spoiler

Tifa and Aerith go on a date at Costa. You can switch back and forth between who you want to control. One of the times when you switch from Aerith to Tifa, Aerith will say: “Guide me, O Tifa” and Tifa will respond “Come, my child.” And it’s hilarious and wonderful.

Also interesting that this time between Aerith and Tifa is referred to as a date as well. Maybe they should’ve replaced the word “date” with “outing” for all these little things. I think Aerith just calls everything a date lol

Lol, that's fitting for the Aerith in my head. Girl's gonna flirt; she not a player, but she crushes a lot.

I also think it was some cute, wink-wink fanservice to Aerith x Tifa shippers. Square seems to be aware (lol I made a poem) of all the shipping happening around FFVII and aren't afraid to have some fun with it. Which I really appreciate! I'm a lifelong Cloti shipper, but in the actual fandom, I love Aerti even though I know it's purely theoretical.

 

[Empyrea]

- and one most recent one i can't seemed to deny anymore is her take on jessie's that's.. just off..

Spoiler: SPOILER

View attachment 14724

Yeeeeeaaaah. I still have no idea how to square with that, either. It really just reminded me of what I didn't like about OG Aerith. Having flaws is one thing, but the insensitivity of that is just...something.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Yeeeeeaaaah. I still have no idea how to square with that, either. It really just reminded me of what I didn't like about OG Aerith. Having flaws is one thing, but the insensivity of that is just...something.

i heard it was probably SENA?? buut~ can't take it without grain of salt

 

[r_monk]

I'm not too far into Rebirth—just finished the Costa del Sol main story quest. Really enjoying it so far, and shipping aside, I really appreciate how far Cloud has come in terms of being emotionally expressive with all his friends. Never thought I'd see this level of emotional intelligence and intuition from our leading guy, but here we are. This sort of characterization and depth of interaction actually makes things weirdly easier to understand in terms of shipping; he's thoughtful towards everyone, so you have to pay more attention to discern the line between platonic and romantic.

 

[Empyrea]

i heard it was probably SENA?? buut~ can't take it without grain of salt

Well, with any luck, they'll probably patch that out with a hopefully more tone-appropriate approach at lightening the mood from Aerith (at least I think that's what she was trying to do).

 

[GamerSkull]

- and one most recent one i can't seemed to deny anymore is her take on jessie's that's.. just off..

Spoiler: SPOILER

View attachment 14724

Reminds me of something that I often found uncomfortable in the OG. I always never take Tifa to the Temple of the Ancients… because I find it ick that Aerith asks Cait Sith how compatible she is with Cloud with Tifa right there if you bring her along. The scene works better if she’s not in the party at that moment.

 

[Legend45]

Reminds me of something that I often found uncomfortable in the OG. I always never take Tifa to the Temple of the Ancients… because I find it ick that Aerith asks Cait Sith how compatible she is with Cloud with Tifa right there if you bring her along. The scene works better if she’s not in the party at that moment.

God please tell me that scene is not still in Rebirth because I dispise it.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

God please tell me that scene is not still in Rebirth because I dispise it.

the CA prediction~ I'm praying in all energy in the world pleeeeaasse have that remove!!!!!

 

[faefolk]

the CA prediction~ I'm praying in all energy in the world pleeeeaasse have that remove!!!!!

Not that I've seen. There is a vague fortune about Cloud 'losing what he cherishes most' but that is after two totally random and pointless fortunes. I assume it's a commentary on how we were never meant to take CS's fortunes seriously lmao.

 

[Empyrea]

I assume it's a commentary on how we were never meant to take CS's fortunes seriously lmao.

I still don't get why people took it seriously in the first place, honestly. That's about the flimsiest thing to use as evidence for anything (I mean, I'd argue it didn't work all that well in ATLA, as an example, even if it did come to pass).

 

[shady]

I'm not too far into Rebirth—just finished the Costa del Sol main story quest. Really enjoying it so far, and shipping aside, I really appreciate how far Cloud has come in terms of being emotionally expressive with all his friends. Never thought I'd see this level of emotional intelligence and intuition from our leading guy, but here we are. This sort of characterization and depth of interaction actually makes things weirdly easier to understand in terms of shipping; he's thoughtful towards everyone, so you have to pay more attention to discern the line between platonic and romantic.

Reminds me of when Cloud's voice actor got into it when a few Cloud and Aerith people who were annoyed when he posted a meme about the TIFAAAAA scene in the trailer. Cloud is allowed to, and should have, great moments with everyone.

God please tell me that scene is not still in Rebirth because I dispise it.

the CA prediction~ I'm praying in all energy in the world pleeeeaasse have that remove!!!!!

As far as I know the only fortune is the "You will lose what you cherish most" (paraphrasing slightly) as faefolk mentioned above, no Cloud and Aerith are super compatible fortune or whatever that was I believe, forgotten what it said in the OG now.

 

[Ruri]

Spoiler

So much winding up between shippers about the optional kiss. You know what isn't optional? No kiss for Aerith. That's actually significant. This game was the chance most would argue. Also while the smear campaign against the kiss is happening, the Gongaga almost kiss is flying under the radar. How is Cloud and Tifa end up alone a few times and they just gravitate to one another. You could cut that tension with a knife. I look forward to no misinterprations about that one as Yuffie calls it out for what it is.

 

[GamerSkull]

I still don't get why people took it seriously in the first place, honestly. That's about the flimsiest thing to use as evidence for anything (I mean, I'd argue it didn't work all that well in ATLA, as an example, even if it did come to pass).

Well, it does serve a purpose.

I actually don’t have an issue with it because it’s supposed to be ironic. The fortune is there to set up the tragedy that is going to occur soon.

It’s ironic because it’s completely wrong. So if CA don’t have a bright future like Cait Sith says than even “poor Tifa” should be taken in reverse as well.

The problem is, people that use it as CA evidence completely miss the irony of the scene.

My only issue with it is that it just comes across as mean-spirited if Tifa is in the party. So I never bring her along.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Well, it does serve a purpose.

I actually don’t have an issue with it because it’s supposed to be ironic. The fortune is there to set up the tragedy that is going to occur soon.

It’s ironic because it’s completely wrong. So if CA don’t have a bright future like Cait Sith says than even “poor Tifa” should be taken in reverse as well.

The problem is, people that use it as CA evidence completely miss the irony of the scene.

My only issue with it is that it just comes across as mean-spirited if Tifa is in the party. So I never bring her along.

I agree in OG purpose of it soo shippers will root for them saying 'see they're meant to be~ while Tifa's in the background' and point of this is soo devs will destroy all that through her death and protagonist and not what it seems and the "lady in the background - TIFA' in the internal heroine.

That is specifically highlight soo her death will definitely hurt - i dont think the focus in REBIRTH in the emotional part of her death.. but rather just part of it.