SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[gulava]

what I can't wrap my head around is that someone can fall head over heels with someone in a matter of weeks of knowing someone? I am honestly asking is that any way possible?

anything is feasible in the realm of fiction; as long as the author does a good job with writing the characters and integrating their relationships into the narrative without contradicting the story.

 

[GamerSkull]

It’s all moot anyway. The kiss, the physical and emotional moments that Cloud and Tifa have, the fact that they live together in Edge, and are raising children together are all evidence that supports that ship.

I would surmise that the last time Cloud ever dwells on Aerith’s fate is at the church at the end of ACC and also never “sees” her and Zack again from that point onward.

 

[Ruri]

Nothing vague at all about the way the Remake Trilogy has been though, to be honest. A group of developers sat around a desk and came to a collective decision - made in full awareness of this entire discourse - that one girl was going to get a kiss and the other wouldn't (and would die shortly after questioning her own feelings)

Love it! Also to assist with how the development line looks in terms of which dev, the recent Hamaguchi interview explains this nicely if anyone is curious over where it starts and who does what.



I like that it starts with Nojima and ends with Nojima but the alignment between all exists and is reinforced if there is any desire for doubt. The old guard working on this have a mututal vision and I think it simplfys massively what shipping fans are trying to overthink, hyperfixate and generally overreact to something that just isn't there.

 

[shady]

Despite what is said in this thread though and what I believe to be Cloud and Tifa the canon couple, you can see in this Remake trilogy so far, especially Rebirth, they’ve made sure to give enough crumbs to Cloud and Aerith supporters for the LTD debate to carry on. I agree a kiss is pretty conclusive but you also cannot say that potentially romantic things between Cloud and Aerith don’t exist in this game either, because they do. There’s also the songs that people cling to and so on.. not trying to be funny just saying they definitely gave a few crumbs

 

[Empyrea]

If people didn't use it so strongly as this vitriolic ship fuel, I would say everyone were fed good. CA having dashes of romantic interactions makes sense with Aerith being confused over her feelings at the end, while to Cloud it could either be just him harboring a crush or just being there for a friend who he knows is going through a rough patch -- Zack and all. And I don't think that would clash with the Lifestream sequence and the Highwind or even just the fact that Cloud kisses Tifa in the same game or Aerith still longing for Zack.

 

[luminous03]

Despite what is said in this thread though and what I believe to be Cloud and Tifa the canon couple, you can see in this Remake trilogy so far, especially Rebirth, they’ve made sure to give enough crumbs to Cloud and Aerith supporters for the LTD debate to carry on. I agree a kiss is pretty conclusive but you also cannot say that potentially romantic things between Cloud and Aerith don’t exist in this game either, because they do. There’s also the songs that people cling to and so on.. not trying to be funny just saying they definitely gave a few crumbs

Ofc they will leave it because it keeps the debate alive and also the fans, because imagine if they confirmed CT, the CA will go on rage and leave the fandom

 

[Hix]

Despite what is said in this thread though and what I believe to be Cloud and Tifa the canon couple, you can see in this Remake trilogy so far, especially Rebirth, they’ve made sure to give enough crumbs to Cloud and Aerith supporters for the LTD debate to carry on. I agree a kiss is pretty conclusive but you also cannot say that potentially romantic things between Cloud and Aerith don’t exist in this game either, because they do. There’s also the songs that people cling to and so on.. not trying to be funny just saying they definitely gave a few crumbs

Nobody is saying otherwise though. Cloud and Aerith have plenty of moments, many of them that can be interpreted romantically.

The point is more, the goal posts have moved now. In Remake, maybe "crumbs" could form an argument, after all that's all anybody got. But in Rebirth one girl gets a kiss - that's a whole new ball game. It means Cloud has shown that he is willing and able to be passionate with someone he has feelings for, that there can be a tangible, unquestionably romantic moment for him if it's with the right person.

Again, CA fans did get fed - though there's a lot more open to interpretation there, especially with the undercurrent of Aerith's feelings for Zack and Cloud's feelings for Tifa - but the LTD has moved on to the point where such "crumbs" are no longer enough to debate against what the devs are spelling out.

 

[starcape91]

I’m unsure how anything romantic could be taken from the Sector 5 date. Aerith straight up says that she really likes Cloud but that there’s a difference between liking and “liking” (are they in middle school or something? lol) That’s pretty straight forward to me that she’s come to the realization that she cares about Cloud but is in love with Zack. In addition to Aerith wanting Cloud to open up (I’m trying so hard to find you) and wanting to have fun and not think about what’s ahead - all the “dates” were tests. Sector 5 was the final exam. Cloud failed pretty miserably on most of them. I think Aerith also realized that she doesn’t have the key to unlock Cloud.

Is the Japanese really that different?

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Game hasn’t even been out a week yet, and already I can tell it’s not only going to feel like a very long wait for Part 3, it’s going to be possibly even more tiresome than it was waiting for Rebirth.

I respect the intent behind wanting to generate discussions and theories again in the interim between the parts of the trilogy, and for the most part these are fun, engaging, and do help keep interest I suppose, but it’s also just going to be so exhausting having to endure the same sort of discourse that continues to plague the fandom.

I reckon early on there was the hope and optimism that Rebirth would have finally discouraged the worst sorts of readings and takes imaginable given how firmly they’ve set things down now, but if Cloud Strife’s first ever canonical kiss didn’t accomplish that, absolutely nothing will.

Que sera sera

 

[gulava]

Despite what is said in this thread though and what I believe to be Cloud and Tifa the canon couple, you can see in this Remake trilogy so far, especially Rebirth, they’ve made sure to give enough crumbs to Cloud and Aerith supporters for the LTD debate to carry on. I agree a kiss is pretty conclusive but you also cannot say that potentially romantic things between Cloud and Aerith don’t exist in this game either, because they do. There’s also the songs that people cling to and so on.. not trying to be funny just saying they definitely gave a few crumbs

+1 the game keeps nudging you towards her as she is the easiest to romance out of the 2 girls and her quests are readily available while tifa’s quests unlock after finishing other quests first and are harder to complete.

 

[gulava]

reckon early on there was the hope and optimism that Rebirth would have finally discouraged the worst sorts of readings and takes imaginable given how firmly they’ve set things down now, but if Cloud Strife’s first ever canonical kiss didn’t accomplish that, absolutely nothing will.

regardless of how fans feel about the LTD; it has proven to be profitable for sqaure enix, and it helped keeping the game afloat for 27 years lol so i dont see them getting rid of it anytime soon.

cloud and tifa could get married, have 10 kid and sqaure enix would still not shoot the LTD down.
before getting into ff7, i used to assume it was purely a romantic game because of LTD so imagine my surprise when i played it and the romance did not play a huge role despite fans claim lol (mostly CAs)

 

[JaeKony]

+1 the game keeps nudging you towards her as she is the easiest to romance out of the 2 girls and her quests are readily available while tifa’s quests unlock after finishing other quests first and are harder to complete.

Feel free to chime in if you want to add more, but I respectfully disagree. There are moments where opportunities to raise your affinity with Tifa are also nudged in your direction/emphasized. A couple of examples I’ve seen so far

Spoiler

-In Junon, the apology between Cloud and Tifa over their fight in Kalm is unavoidable whereas you have to seek out everyone else.

-Certain characters have more side quests related to them in certain regions i.e. Red XIII has two side quests in the grasslands and Tifa has two side quests in Junon region.

 

[gulava]

Feel free to chime in if you want to add more, but I respectfully disagree. There are moments where opportunities to raise your affinity with Tifa are also nudged in your direction/emphasized. A couple of examples I’ve seen so far

Spoiler

-In Junon, the apology between Cloud and Tifa over their fight in Kalm is unavoidable whereas you have to seek out everyone else.

-Certain characters have more side quests related to them in certain regions i.e. Red XIII has two side quests in the grasslands and Tifa has two side quests in Junon region.

3 interactions with aerith are unavoidable either as they are part of the main quest; one in kalm, gongaga and cosmo canyon. all 3 are impossible to miss as they are integral to the story.
and believe me, i tried looking for tifa quests, and they only unlocked after i finished red, barret or aerith quests first lol
and im not the only one who struggled to find tifa quests lol

 

[shady]

Game hasn’t even been out a week yet, and already I can tell it’s not only going to feel like a very long wait for Part 3, it’s going to be possibly even more tiresome than it was waiting for Rebirth.

I respect the intent behind wanting to generate discussions and theories again in the interim between the parts of the trilogy, and for the most part these are fun, engaging, and do help keep interest I suppose, but it’s also just going to be so exhausting having to endure the same sort of discourse that continues to plague the fandom.

I reckon early on there was the hope and optimism that Rebirth would have finally discouraged the worst sorts of readings and takes imaginable given how firmly they’ve set things down now, but if Cloud Strife’s first ever canonical kiss didn’t accomplish that, absolutely nothing will.

Que sera sera

They shouldn't have laced them fingers!

 

[JaeKony]

3 interactions with aerith are unavoidable either as they are part of the main quest; one in kalm, gongaga and cosmo canyon. all 3 are impossible to miss as they are integral to the story.
and believe me, i tried looking for tifa quests, and they only unlocked after i finished red, barret or aerith quests first lol
and im not the only one who struggled to find tifa quests lol

Huh, ok, fair point, and thank you for the extra evidence. I’ll take your word (and the gamefaqs threads word) for it!

 

[JaeKony]

Game hasn’t even been out a week yet, and already I can tell it’s not only going to feel like a very long wait for Part 3, it’s going to be possibly even more tiresome than it was waiting for Rebirth.

I respect the intent behind wanting to generate discussions and theories again in the interim between the parts of the trilogy, and for the most part these are fun, engaging, and do help keep interest I suppose, but it’s also just going to be so exhausting having to endure the same sort of discourse that continues to plague the fandom.

I reckon early on there was the hope and optimism that Rebirth would have finally discouraged the worst sorts of readings and takes imaginable given how firmly they’ve set things down now, but if Cloud Strife’s first ever canonical kiss didn’t accomplish that, absolutely nothing will.

Que sera sera

Que sera sera indeed. Still tho, I personally think Rebirth has solidified a main love interest at least for the casual player/viewer. I’m not saying that Cloud and Aerith don’t have any cute or romantic moments in the game, and I think we’ve established in this thread that they do, but you

Spoiler

can’t argue against a kiss

and I mean that with as much empathy as I can muster. If C/A were to continue, it indisputably now has to be C/T/A. In my opinion, most coherent arguments have shifted towards that assumption.

 

[shady]

Que sera sera indeed. Still tho, I personally think Rebirth has solidified a main love interest at least for the casual player/viewer. I’m not saying that Cloud and Aerith don’t have any cute or romantic moments in the game, and I think we’ve established in this thread that they do, but you

Spoiler

can’t argue against a kiss

and I mean that with as much empathy as I can muster. If C/A were to continue, it indisputably now has to be C/T/A. In my opinion, most coherent arguments have shifted towards that assumption.

If C/A were to continue it would at this point be character assasination on Cloud, would needlessly be cruel to Tifa, would be needlessly cruel to Zack and pretty much destroy alot of the story and development they did in the past 2 games, especially Rebirth.

I'm not saying Square isn't capable of doing these things, because they are. But if they did i'd be mindblown at their stupidity.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

It’s only natural for Aerith to get significantly more focus here, and for there to be things in the main narrative that even push you in that direction. This is essentially her swan song. Thematically this is Aerith’s journey, and then her farewell, irrespective of theories surrounding her actual fate in the end, this is essentially Aerith’s final time spent in the main party. Not to say she won’t have some playable bits in 3 given what they’ve done with Zack, but travelling alongside the party? No.

Tifa will get her big moments and further development in 3. In fact nearly all her major scenes and important character moments are in the latter half, and she’s already been given a huge uptick in screen time and development in Rebirth compared to the equivalent in the original. If Tifa got too many quests or moments in Rebirth, then she’ll have less in 3, and they’ve already flirted very close to the big reveals in the Lifestream so I’m glad if anything they’ve shown restraint and are giving Aerith her due here.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Ok, right now I’ve got a sort of theory/suspicion that Nojima has been absolutely cooking something up for a while now regarding the Lifestream.

Now before I share please anyone correct me or call out if you think I’m just needlessly bigging the Lifestream up, or if I’ve got rose tinted specs on.

Spoiler

Taking into account both Remake and Rebirth really taking their time with the slow burn and building up of the interactions and dynamic between Cloud and Tifa and the evolving of their characters, and also not forgetting both Traces of Two Pasts and the new short novella from Cloud’s POV, both by Nojima, where he firmly spells out what was already apparent regarding their respective feelings for the other (Tifa like liking Cloud, and Cloud wanting to be someone special to Tifa) I just can’t shake the sense that the Lifestream is going to have a focus on both characters confessing these feelings properly to the other.

I’m not saying this because I think they’re going to skimp out on all the other important parts of the Lifestream, but they’ve already laid a lot more groundwork for it than was ever in the original, Tifa has even had an early dip in the Lifestream, so while I think they’ll still do it justice, there’s also the fact that it’s not going to be a “twist” anymore much in the same way Aerith’s death isn’t a surprise anymore.

Obviously given both characters have a greater awareness of Zack this time around, the key revelations that will play out is that Tifa will find out Cloud was at Nibelheim and kept his promise, and that the SOLDIER identity was a persona to deal with the trauma from everything that happened during Nibelheim up to Zack’s final stand.

But I feel like they’re going to need to do something different with it for it to still have the same energy and impact the original had.

And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they’ve been developing Cloud and Tifa as carefully as they have, with supplemental works by Nojima also doing the same, for their not to be a payoff where they are as unambiguous as possible about how Cloud and Tifa feel for each other.

It may not be the Lifestream, they could be saving that for the Highwind, which will likely have a LA and HA variation.

Anyway that’s my only theory, such as it is, going into Part 3.

 

[JaeKony]

Ok, right now I’ve got a sort of theory/suspicion that Nojima has been absolutely cooking something up for a while now regarding the Lifestream.

Now before I share please anyone correct me or call out if you think I’m just needlessly bigging the Lifestream up, or if I’ve got rose tinted specs on.

Spoiler

Taking into account both Remake and Rebirth really taking their time with the slow burn and building up of the interactions and dynamic between Cloud and Tifa and the evolving of their characters, and also not forgetting both Traces of Two Pasts and the new short novella from Cloud’s POV, both by Nojima, where he firmly spells out what was already apparent regarding their respective feelings for the other (Tifa like liking Cloud, and Cloud wanting to be someone special to Tifa) I just can’t shake the sense that the Lifestream is going to have a focus on both characters confessing these feelings properly to the other.

I’m not saying this because I think they’re going to skimp out on all the other important parts of the Lifestream, but they’ve already laid a lot more groundwork for it than was ever in the original, Tifa has even had an early dip in the Lifestream, so while I think they’ll still do it justice, there’s also the fact that it’s not going to be a “twist” anymore much in the same way Aerith’s death isn’t a surprise anymore.

Obviously given both characters have a greater awareness of Zack this time around, the key revelations that will play out is that Tifa will find out Cloud was at Nibelheim and kept his promise, and that the SOLDIER identity was a persona to deal with the trauma from everything that happened during Nibelheim up to Zack’s final stand.

But I feel like they’re going to need to do something different with it for it to still have the same energy and impact the original had.

And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they’ve been developing Cloud and Tifa as carefully as they have, with supplemental works by Nojima also doing the same, for their not to be a payoff where they are as unambiguous as possible about how Cloud and Tifa feel for each other.

It may not be the Lifestream, they could be saving that for the Highwind, which will likely have a LA and HA variation.

Anyway that’s my only theory, such as it is, going into Part 3.

The Lifestream sequence is definitely going to be something to look forward to! Some of the key devs have said that the lifestream sequence is their favorite so they are going to be spending a lot of time to carefully craft it together. I agree that Nojima has slowly been building up Cloud and Tifa’s relationship via added context to Rebirth and Remake as well as the novels he’s been writing and I hope it pays off greatly in Part 3.

Personally, I can’t wait to see how Tifa reacts when she finds out that Cloud has been keeping his promise to her all along

Spoiler

Especially after their Kalm fight in Rebirth where she basically asks Cloud “Where were you!?”
NGL the flashback scene in Nibelheim where she gets slashed and Cloud is carrying her while she mumbles “You promised…” made me so sad.

 

[GamerSkull]

Neither here nor there but I think the Highwind scene will actually be ON the Highwind this time.

Probably because… they have it all to themselves so there’s really no reason for them to park it and then just hang out underneath… in the cold.

 

[shady]

Ok, right now I’ve got a sort of theory/suspicion that Nojima has been absolutely cooking something up for a while now regarding the Lifestream.

Now before I share please anyone correct me or call out if you think I’m just needlessly bigging the Lifestream up, or if I’ve got rose tinted specs on.

Spoiler

Taking into account both Remake and Rebirth really taking their time with the slow burn and building up of the interactions and dynamic between Cloud and Tifa and the evolving of their characters, and also not forgetting both Traces of Two Pasts and the new short novella from Cloud’s POV, both by Nojima, where he firmly spells out what was already apparent regarding their respective feelings for the other (Tifa like liking Cloud, and Cloud wanting to be someone special to Tifa) I just can’t shake the sense that the Lifestream is going to have a focus on both characters confessing these feelings properly to the other.

I’m not saying this because I think they’re going to skimp out on all the other important parts of the Lifestream, but they’ve already laid a lot more groundwork for it than was ever in the original, Tifa has even had an early dip in the Lifestream, so while I think they’ll still do it justice, there’s also the fact that it’s not going to be a “twist” anymore much in the same way Aerith’s death isn’t a surprise anymore.

Obviously given both characters have a greater awareness of Zack this time around, the key revelations that will play out is that Tifa will find out Cloud was at Nibelheim and kept his promise, and that the SOLDIER identity was a persona to deal with the trauma from everything that happened during Nibelheim up to Zack’s final stand.

But I feel like they’re going to need to do something different with it for it to still have the same energy and impact the original had.

And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they’ve been developing Cloud and Tifa as carefully as they have, with supplemental works by Nojima also doing the same, for their not to be a payoff where they are as unambiguous as possible about how Cloud and Tifa feel for each other.

It may not be the Lifestream, they could be saving that for the Highwind, which will likely have a LA and HA variation.

Anyway that’s my only theory, such as it is, going into Part 3.

To be honest i've been having the same discussion in Discords...

Spoiler

People are unsure if they are gonna mess up the Lifestream sequence because of things that have already been revealed and of course Tifa already getting a taste of the Lifestream and finding out Cloud helped her on the bridge.

However as you say considering the careful development of both of them in Remake and Rebirth, and that the developers favourite sequence in OG is the Lifestream sequence i'd be very surprised if they mess it up in any way.

My thoughts run similar to yours, the way to improve the Lifestream sequence this time around is to make it about both Cloud and Tifa respectively, their history, their traumas, their relationship and their future. It's the perfect opportunity for both of them to work through everything, this includes piecing Cloud back together but not exclusively about that. I believe you mentioned it before, they've set it up perfectly for an emotional payoff ala the Lifestream, and a physical payoff ala the Highwind. They just need to follow through with it now.

Either way, there is going to be major angst early game that's for sure, considering how heartbroken Tifa looks at the end and Cloud doesn't even bother to comfort her (because he believes nothing is wrong/nothing happened in terms of Aerith) so all that is going to need to be addressed too.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Neither here nor there but I think the Highwind scene will actually be ON the Highwind this time.

Probably because… they have it all to themselves so there’s really no reason for them to park it and then just hang out underneath… in the cold.

If there is one thing I’m 100% sure they’ll change is the revelation that everyone else was on the Highwind listening/watching

They kind of needed those lines and Tifa’s embarrassment in the original to establish exactly what did happen under the Highwind, but doubt they’d need to do that this time around

 

[GamerSkull]

If there is one thing I’m 100% sure they’ll change is the revelation that everyone else was on the Highwind listening/watching

They kind of needed those lines and Tifa’s embarrassment in the original to establish exactly what did happen under the Highwind, but doubt they’d need to do that this time around

They’ll probably reference it though to some extent. Like Cid or Barret noticing that they seem happier somehow or something like that.

Hopefully, Part 3 is out by 2027.

I actually think they have less to do. As in, a lot of the locations are revisited so they don’t have to spend time recreating them… just adding things to them now.

They just have to create a small amount of new areas (relatively) like Wutai, Rocket Town, Mideel, Icicle Inn. And they have to add stuff for the Highwind to do in the air.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

They’ll probably reference it though to some extent. Like Cid or Barret noticing that they seem happier somehow or something like that.

Hopefully, Part 3 is out by 2027.

I actually think they have less to do. As in, a lot of the locations are revisited so they don’t have to spend time recreating them… just adding things to them now.

They just have to create a small amount of new areas (relatively) like Wutai, Rocket Town, Mideel, Icicle Inn. And they have to add stuff for the Highwind to do in the air.

I think purely from a story standpoint, Part 3 has to be a lot more linear and tightly focused. Soo much plot is going to happen, there’s no excuse this time for fun vacays or minigames (snowboarding aside).