Okay, I'm a fool for reacting way too fast after that last post. I was just completely frustrated at SE and then some of the people here. And went post and run or something like that. I thought everyone was going to burn me on the stake because when I wrote that I thought I was swearing.
Anyway, I don't know what you people have talked about but I want to share something here. If I ever talk rudely to c /as here, that's because I'm only anticipating their mind frame. Personally , I think the LTD is dead (it shouldn't even have existed to begin with tbh), but I want to share a few things. Maybe nothing new, but here. These are things I've shared with some people piece by piece so I apologize in advance that it's all over the place.
Also, these have spoilers.
First off, there seems to be a different approach with how he treats Zerith's deaths. In rebirth, cloud knows Zack dies as a grunt in the river. While he completely erases how aerith died here but knows she died but just doesn't contextualize it. Doesn't entertain it deeply. but why? because the reality is, it's not death he's in denial of, but the idea that he caused them their deaths himself. With Zack, he had to protect Cloud's weak state instead of just running off to aerith. With Aerith, it's shown that he might have killed her himself this time and even if not, he still aided sephiroth by being unable stop him. Both aren't his faults. He is weak af and the other he is a puppet being controlled. But both cases solidifies one thing he's scared the most. HE IS NO HERO. Because not only does he fail, he does not save lives but ALSO TAKES IT AWAY. I think this actually adds more layer in ACC where he runs away so his family wouldn't contract geostigma. he says it doesn't, but in the end he's not sure anymore. Cloud believes his existence is danger to those around him and this is his desperate way of saving them from his failures. If he wasn't there with zack and if he wasn't there as a puppet at all then maybe they could have lived the happy life like he has with Tifa, his dream. Making his survivor's guilt even worse than just failing to protect a Nakama. So does he really deserve to bask in the happiness he had for 2 years and for more? maybe if he could just forget about it, like how he doesn't actually address it for years. But it's proven wrong, it still crept up to him the moment elmyra's request happened. You know CoT and ACC, he has to forgive himself for every "mistake" he's ever done since as a child ("the memory"- Sephiroth- darkness- his negatives), he isn't perfect and that's fine. He can still smile.
This one was the one where I got irritated but looking back it looks different now ->
Now, with the ending. I don't think we will see her ever again. This isn't jenova, it's her. I recall nanaki noticing her presence and didn't register that she's hostile. Also, if they wanted that angle, she should have gone with them on the plane. Since she didn't, her showing up with the party in part 3 immediately tells cloud that she's fake. They did just left her there in the fields far away from them. It's a pointless tactic. Now, why is cloud acting weird? because he's slowly losing his emotional connection with "death and sadness". He doesn't care go notice the gang is sad, especially completely ignoring tifa crying. VERY huge contrast with he's reaction to her with Jessie's death. Now, cloud knows aerith died. but he's detached to the idea of it. she says "I'll see you off" she'll accompany them but only for a little while. You know that scene where cloud kinda laughs? she asks him if she's not safe to go home what is he gonna do about it? at first it looks like a simple call back of that playground event in part 1, but it could also be ominous in nature. After he laughs she actually looks away, it's so detached. I think this is cloud's fcked up way of laughing "yeah, I can't help to take you home "safely" because not only because you're already dead but because I'm alive so how is that plausible". Which leads onto snowboarding, this shows how he can do that freely because he doesn't feel any pain at all, what is death? what is sadness? he is only but a puppet.
Also, that laugh? I think this is the jenova laugh that existed in OG. The one c /a loved so much. And why it felt so off. This whole segment reminds me of the korean movie Parasite. There's a sex scene there that you're supposed to feel uncomfortable by and NOT turned on. If so, then you followed the story in a wrong way. The ending feels like this, the c /a interaction here felt like this. It felt so creepy , out of nowhere and OOC.
But not until he looses what he cherishes the most. Tifa's belief/trust in him that he is him (also this persona was made solely for her sake when they met again), because it's only her opinion that matters and even that has been hanging on a thread (I believe this also ties in with his EC monologue at 7th heaven, I'm not sure). And I think even that is actually Tifa's good call even if she didn't mean to. he had to break down every single part of Jenova first before Tifa can reclaim him in the lifestream. so even though I don't like reclaim and wished for reveal, I think Reclaim will be the title of Part 3. We will finally get our hero. The Real one. -> THAT or it's what's commonly known as "he loses himself" as what he cherishes the most. But maybe it's both? he can't lose himself without losing Tifa's faith in him first after all. that's the only thing that's kept him hanging on alive, in control and sane within the entirety of the game every time he gets close to becoming a puppet completely. Plus the 2k hero quote with tifa, heck the very reason he became soldier in midgar when they met again. He came to life because of her, for her.
Going back a bit.
if you look at Zack's he made his death into an accident (grunt dying on river) devoid of his involvement to his death as the "soldier". but with aerith, he can't just change it because the party will constantly remind him of his failure, as they will all cry etc. so he completely shuts of the concept of death and pain. both to cope from being not only of not being a hero but rather the cause of their deaths. Makes it worse for him because cloud isn't adverse to the idea of death itself, but rather of the reason why it happened and how that ruins his dreams of becoming someone special to Tifa. His character's main motivation and source of conflict throughout the compilation.
And now, I've touched up upon this back in april in my first post in this site. But I will expand further. The one where I said aerith might remind cloud of his own mother's circumstances (not personality nor characteristic).
So the death scene was framed the same like sonon and melphie (two siblings). Cloud does the EXACT thing which is fascinating. SE does this A LOT when it comes to c /a scenes. Borrow stuff from other things. It's no proof but it's curious.
Only thing they added was cloud holding her hand after she placed it on his face. But hey. WE MIGHT JUST SEE CLOUD DO THE SAME IN PART 3 IF WE SEE HIM CRY FOR HIS MOM.
Only three people have the same narrative of a husband/ loved one leaving behind. Claudia, elmyra, and aerith. So maybe he sees his own mom cry sometimes and he comforts her. He's the only one his mother has as a family.
And that's why he sympathizes with aerith. Not just because he's a friend, or Zack's (his dear friend) love one. That's why he tries his best to tolerate her as much as he can. And also why he has such an adverse reaction to Zack
at first leaving aerith Behind. Because he knows how much it hurt his own mother. There's a theory lol that glenn might be his dad and I heard that guy's an asshole.
Imagine if cloud asks his own mom as a child "do you still love him?" Lol. Just like with aerith's.
There's a thing going on that aerith is forgetting zack. Due to the whispers. And if you recall her LSW line. She states that she will help cloud for he REMINDED her of everything that was important to her. AKA Zack. You can take her "thank you" as that during the farewell hug she gave him.
Now, If cloud helped aerith remember zack through the SOLDIER (sword, eyes, gesture, hair? But NOT as "him"), then maybe she could have helped him remind him of his own mother though her CIRCUMSTANCES / CONFLICT (NOT as "her" per say). Because if you noticed he oddly doesn't recall his own mother. Which is WEIRD. he hasn't mourn for her properly. He mentions her but only in passing. Felt detached. And if I recall.. we saw sephiroth taunt cloud about killing his mom in remake. During the first time sephiroth appeared to him. I'm not sure but I think he killed his mom in front of him (and aerith's death could be like a trigger of his trauma). So we might see that in part 3. Where the real flash back is at. Heck they even built up Claudia in Rebirth, a grunt was crying "mom" outside.
Not only that. Like how aerith was able to live through the things she never got to do with zack through soldier cloud albeit without his consent. cloud too, could have at his older age, been able to comfort his mom who was crying over his dad and as a child and the only one she had , he can't do anything about it. And even more so now that she's dead. He could have been able to do that for aerith here, who misses Zack in her gsd and saying weird things there and in the creepy date. In his own way, but nothing romantic here. Plus if you noticed after that gsd, he says "i didn't do much" after aerith thanked him. It means that handhold isn't a big deal for him and he did that out of concern and she did say "only until the ride ends".
Is aerith and Claudia equal in importance to him? No. That's not what I'm saying. It's in the same wavelength as cloud will never be more important to Zack for aerith. Coincidentally, both aerith and cloud don't know eachother well enough either. Aerith never got to know true cloud and spent the entire time chasing after him treating him as Zack. Cloud, despite trying his hardest to be a friend can't seem to be comfortable with aerith's advances and that's why he creates a boundary (unlike with barret, nanaki, etc). I don't recall cloud knowing aerith hates the word "weird" that much as she's never shared it nor did he ever asked much about her in general tbh (while Zack and Tifa knew). I said this before and I'll say it again. I always saw Aerith and cloud two protagonists in two separate narratives. They influence eachother but that's it, they go to separate ways. In this case, they are here solely to support eachother as FRIENDS. NAKAMAS. Just like in fruits basket. Thoru and Yuki both influence eachother but in the end both live out separate narratives. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ONES.
I know this looks like a joke but that SEIZE THE AWKWARD mental health awareness campaign with c /a doing a high five is EVERYTHING I can say about their dynamic. They're FRIENDS SUPPORTING FRIENDS (and that interlocked handhold is a symbol of comfort- giving strength). in a game known for it's mental health commentary. This is what I think Cody is talking about. Thinking something as overtly sexual/ romantic takes away a great story telling. Like, I am moved by frodo and sam's relationship but does it need to be romantic? No. Placing anything like that, kinds of blands their dynamic or overcomplicates the interpretation. In short it ADDS NOTHING OF DEPTH. BUT ONLY TO CONFUSE AND MUDDY THE DELIVERY OF WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO SEE.
Anyway. That's it. And btw. The creepy date can also be a commentary about the affection mechanics. Please please NOTICE Aerith does the "Shhhhhh" when cloud wanted to say something and yet couldn't. So take how he acts whenever he "reciprocates" with a GRAIN OF SALT. Plus this is her own world, she controls it. Yet even so. Reunion flower (nah), even after line change of nakama (nah), everything else that's supposed to go "well" (nah), and in the very end, no mater what aerith tells him to do may it be making cloud reciprocate her "romantic" handhold (in FF) etc, in the end Cloud doesn't return her feelings. He doesn't even take it seriously even though I can feel he knows what's up. This is the guy who's madly in love with tifa after all. He knows when something looks real or not. It doesn't mean it doesn't make him uncomfortable tho. He doesn't think of her in that light nor never will even if she liked him that way fr.
That being said. If Tifa and aerith are meant to be the complete opposite of one another. And unless one is being obtuse. He is MADLY in love with Tifa. Then how the hell is he going to be into someone the complete opposite of said girl. People have a TYPE (at least, I do seem to keep it consistent without thinking too much about it). Anyway if this is about attraction, I can't count the dress reveal, nor the performance there have been numerous counterpoints about that already. All I'm going to say is, cloud is capable of being amazed, I don't suppose Tifa is in love with aerith. I don't suppose I'm in love with every celebrity I come across entranced with. No. He didn't even remember her face , just the flowers. Zack is would be enchanted by her tho even if he doesn't think she's a beauty because he is simply attracted to her. Very different. Well anyway, even after all that obviously misleading segments he still only thinks of her as a Comrade. Even at the height of everything (HA), it only leads to that one point.
So anyone who's saying "it never got to develop.. etc" is wrong. It did. It developed into a STRONG FRIENDSHIP. one that can have the strength to defeat sephiroth and hold onto the guy that bonds them the most, ZACK. This is what it will be, alive or dead. With or without Tifa and Zack. FRIENDSHIP and CAMARADERIE.
Also, I wouldn't be worried about Zack. It's bittersweet and small but his hyu ~ hyu is parallel to aerith's hyu~ hyu when she was acting cute in the bikini reveal. Small detail noticed by some JP fans. But it means they're connected no matter what. I hope Zack fans get a DLC , not only because I thought he got shafted in this game.. but also because part 3 has more important things to address (we still have disk 2 & 3 to cover) so I hope his storyline gets cleared there as much as possible.
My prediction in part 3, is that creepy date will appear after the ending, BUT with Zack this time. That's like aerith's version of true cloud's lifestream. It cannot be successful if the variables are WRONG. And it was then. And in the end, instead of being unsure, Aerith tells him to his face that he loves him without skipping a beat. And this will be her first time saying it I assume? She never got to before. Anyway, that's who she truly loves.
That's all (tho I'm sure I forgot some sigh..).
Extra (changes I've made from my first post when I used fruits basket as an analogy)->
Cloud is like Thoru here , aerith is like yuki, and Tifa is like Kyo. Yuki was the only one who "felt" something but in the end realizes it wasn't the "love" he thought it was. Meanwhile Thoru was full set on Kyo. Also, both Thoru and Yuki are mentally & emotionally a bit more weaker. Kyo was actually really strong, just like Tifa. Hence why Thoru gravitate so much to him and was so freakin scared he might judge her once he realizes she's not the perfect kind girl everyone knew (that scene during laundry hanging). Just like how Cloud is afraid of being rejected by Tifa. The only one who really knew Thoru was Kyo, the boy who turns into a sheep? , Momiji got really close and Akito (that's why Thoru is capable of understanding her, not just because thoru is kind af, she's broken but thriving).
