SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Master Bates]

Aerith is really pretty in this remake. You can even call her beautiful, although she does look plain to me sometimes too. But her design is too cute for my taste and her looks is just not my type.

Always admitted that Tifa's more my type anyway. And I'm not saying this just coz she has huge assets. I just like Asian looking girls more.

EDIT:

Eerie, ouch.

Although Eowyn was my fave girl in LOTR. But still, ouch.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I was chatting to a Japanese fan artist I know and she said she thought westerners preferred Asians with softer faces.

 

[ForceStealer]

Now, a reminder for everyone:
View attachment 5843

EMOTE/SMILEY!

 

[X-SOLDIER]

EMOTE/SMILEY!

I feel like leaving it at full size helps to emphasize the importance of when it's used.



EDIT: Ok, that seems like a reasonable size for : benice : to me. Lemme know if any adjustments are needed.




X

 

[looneymoon]

I think both are gorgeous, but now I am slightly weirded out by Aerith's big feet.

Idk if this is a stereotype in Japan, but my mom used to joke with me that white woman have humongous feet. So I wonder if thats a thing that was on their mind when they were trying to make Aeriths model look western.

I have thought way too much about over the last two posts, I will stop now.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

if that is what you call an erection then this was a full-blown cumshot
View attachment 5866

View attachment 5868

Cloud would have a foot fetish, that weirdo.

Feeling personally attacked here. =(

SE said major plot points will stay the same. Aerith likely still dies. But does she have to die at the same point in the game?

I'm sure that's a question Nomura, Kitase, and Nojima have asked themselves and one another.

Cloud could save her this time but ultimately, Aerith still has to die so she can direct the lifestream from within the Planet to help Holy stop meteor.

Even if Cloud saves her, Aerith knows the future, and knows she has to die to direct the lifestream from within the Planet to assist Holy.

What if they get Holy moving sooner this time? Or prevent Meteor's casting altogether (I figure this one is unlikely, but still worth pondering)?

I know I'll get criticized for bringing this up again, but if you look at this from the perspective of someone new to the FFVII fandom, I don't see how my analysis is far off.

Sure, if you already love Tifa and CxT, you will disagree. But I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who played the Remake with no prior knowledge.

After all that transpires, what would a casual gamer likely think by the end of the game?

To me, the answer is obvious: Aerith. Aerith. Aerith.

It could come down to which of the Chapter 14 scenes they get, and whether they're aware that there are other versions. Since many players are probably going to try doing most or all of the sidequests available to them in Chapters 3 and 8, for many the deciding factor in which Chapter 14 scene they get will just be who they spoke to first in the sewers.

I can really see that influencing many new players' experiences later in a way they couldn't have anticipated.

Anyway, coming back to your question: I think if someone gets the Aerith scene in Chapter 14, they will most likely see those last few chapters much as you described. That scene does seemingly offer a definitive last word on Cloud's feelings for this first installment, and without any notion of what may be coming later, it's going to make those last few chapters feel very cut and dry on that particular matter. Especially since everyone remains very focused on the rescue, escape, and Sephiroth circumstances for the rest of the game.

If a new player gets the Tifa or Barret scenes ... I have no idea what they'll be thinking. Maybe that the romantic subplots just got left behind after the moment when both ladies grabbed one of Cloud's arms?

And why do people in this thread keep bringing up Zack as if he disqualifies Clerith?

Zack has barely been mentioned in the thread for a couple of days, and definitely not in that context.

EDIT: Ok, that seems like a reasonable size for : benice : to me.

... How?

 

[ForceStealer]

... How?

It looks okay my computer. I'd love to know how this forum decides when and how to resize stuff for mobile.

 

[Ⓐaron]

It looks okay my computer. I'd love to know how this forum decides when and how to resize stuff for mobile.

That’s assuming there is any sort of decision-making process. For all I know it’s the mobile browsers resizing content, and they seem to use RNG to decide what to resize.

 

[null]

Does Aerith have a weighted bonus this time around? With the Ch. 8 sidequests being the most challenging, I'd think more players would likely see Barret or Tifa's resolutions.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It looks okay my computer. I'd love to know how this forum decides when and how to resize stuff for mobile.

 

[ForceStealer]

something something PC Master Race

 

[ChOcOboO]

I think it's just pretty telling, (without bringing up the compilation), that we now have scenes of Tifa on top of Cloud, Tifa running into his chest, the constant hand-reaching. There's a level of physical closeness that's being set up that isn't seen with the other girls. If they wanted to establish Clerith as endgame and on par with other Final Fantasy couples, I would have liked to see some sexual tension with them as well. There was none though.

I remember in FFX you have the option as Tidus to choose Lulu as more your type thanks to dialogue options. No one really talks about it because his big non-optional romantic scene with Yuna happens anyway. This is where I think the illusion of choice in OG FF7 has really colored people's perception of Cloud a certain way. He really is all about Tifa, but it doesn't mean he cannot be attracted to Aerith. I just can't really compare that to the depth of feelings he has for Tifa, though, and I think that's where the problem lies.

 

[null]

I think it's just pretty telling, (without bringing up the compilation), that we now have scenes of Tifa on top of Cloud, Tifa running into his chest, the constant hand-reaching. There's a level of physical closeness that's being set up that isn't seen with the other girls. If they wanted to establish Clerith as endgame and on par with other Final Fantasy couples, I would have liked to see some sexual tension with them as well. There was none though.

I think Cloud had a far stronger reaction to Aerith's dress than Tifa's (actually, more of a non-reaction for the latter). Other than that yeah, he's definitely more touchy-reachy-holdy with Tifa. But it's a different dynamic. I wouldn't compare the two on physical chemistry alone.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Does Aerith have a weighted bonus this time around? With the Ch. 8 sidequests being the most challenging, I'd think more players would likely see Barret or Tifa's resolutions.

I would really very much like to know this. We know there is an affection system and if a certain character affection is high we get a special scene with them in c14 but are there any exact starting values, where are they hiding?

 

[Eerie]

I think both girls must start at the same level. So if you're nice to both, it's the sewers that determine which girl you get? The Ultimania also forgot to talk about the flower and the drink, but you can also lose and gain points in various talks with other NPCs over at the Wall Market. It really depends on what you say, and I think that possibly at the Wall Market if you aren't neutral in your answers, you can lose points easily, especially with Aerith.

 

[Sasseli]

I guess the love-triangle is still firmly in place?

Albeit now it looks more like Cloud's not being able (or willing?) to make out his feelings, while Tifa and Aerith build the most beautiful friendship, no jealousy apparent whatsoever. Sometimes it seems like they're more interested in each other than in Cloud(not implying anything here).
It seems so inconsequential who gets more affection points, because the two women simply don't seem to care as much as in the OG. On one hand I like the fact that the Remake would pass the Bechdel test much better, on the other hand the LTD was such an important aspect to the OG story and it got extremely reduced in the Remake. Takes a bit of the fun out of it, as well. Much of the Cloud teasing revolved around that, too, if I remember correctly.

 

[Master Bates]

I would really very much like to know this. We know there is an affection system and if a certain character affection is high we get a special scene with them in c14 but are there any exact starting values, where are they hiding?

I think Theozilla posted something related to this in the Ultimania thread.

Basically 2 points to each girls for every completed side quest relative to their chapters. You can check it out.

Edit: Oh, I think there was no mention about starting points, though.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Plenty of time to build up the LTD in the next two installments.

 

[Strangelove]

i picked the nicest options for both, took the flower, took the drink, did every side quest but went to tifa first in the sewer (i thought you'd get the chance to speak to both and wanted to hear if there was any dialogue about shinra's plans), and got tifa's scene in chapter 14.

i've started again on hard mode and have refused the flower (then picked the most dismissive answer when she says it's free) but haven't gotten to the drink part yet, but i also want to do quests to get the skill books

 

[Yumelinh]

I keep hearing the argument "lots of OG CxA scenes were omitted in the Remake" & "Tifa got way more scenes in Midgar than she got in the OG."

Well, SE stated they wanted to keep it "equal" due to the social media discourse: "Team Aerith" vs. "Team Tifa"

But if that is the case, doesn't that suggest Aerith will be getting "equal" screen-time later in the game?

Does that suggest an alternate reality? Or her death occurring later in the game?

SE said major plot points will stay the same. Aerith likely still dies. But does she have to die at the same point in the game?

Cloud could save her this time but ultimately, Aerith still has to die so she can direct the lifestream from within the Planet to help Holy stop meteor.

Even if Cloud saves her, Aerith knows the future, and knows she has to die to direct the lifestream from within the Planet to assist Holy.

Killing Aerith later in the game keeps the major plot points the same (ie: Aerith dies), but allows us to be shocked (yet again) because we don't know exactly when it will happen.

It also ensures Aerith will receive "equal screen time" later in the game just like Tifa got in Midgar. Gotta keep it equal, right? If Tifa gets more in Midgar, doesn't that suggest Aerith will get more later?

In 1997, SE was bombarded with letters from fans about reviving Aerith. Gamers spent endless hours trying to bring her back. Maybe now they want a version where gamers can play with her to the very end of the game, but still keep the main plot points the same -- which would mean that Aerith still dies, but much later in the game.

Shock value? Check. Equal time? Check. Main plot points the same? Check.

And I know this isn't technically about the Remake, but it fits with the idea that Tifa is supposedly going to dominate the second half of the Remake once Aerith dies:

Bugenhagen takes Cloud and everyone back to the Forgotten City for an extended amount of time to talk about Aerith. REAL Cloud states he remembers Aerith "a lot."

This is both an underrated and forgotten moment of the OG.

Aerith's presences looms large over everyone. Aerith also comes back at the very end of the game and reaches out to Cloud from within the lifestream. Cloud's question to the Planet has been answered -- he can meet Aerith in the Promised Land.

Aerith's face is the last image we see -- just as it is the first image we see. Aerith's face is the "full circle" moment that ties everything together in a pretty pink ribbon.

If the main plot points stay the same, Aerith will still loom large over everyone during the second half of the Remake.

This is all quite possible. There's even a huge thread about predictions for part 2 that your inputs would be very much appreciated

Our "omitted" scenes are more than made up for with picking flowers at Aerith's house, high-five's in the tunnel, the Wall Market battle arena, and the dream scene where Cloud wants HIS OWN SAY on loving Aerith.

We were just commenting about scenes that were more straight forward when it comes to CxA in the OG that was omitted in this Remake. However, if you, as a Clerith shipper, is happy w/ what you got, then that's what matters, right? As I said bf, I do think some of them were just omitted to keep the balance btw both of the girls anyways.

Btw, Cloud only asks "Do I get a say in all this?" in English. In Japanese this is slightly different:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249623929338990594

Not that I think it changes the romantic tones in this scene, just thought you should know.

If we are going to talk about who got what scenes omitted, I think it is fair to further analyze the scenes as they are placed within the narrative.

To me, Tifa's scenes felt overshadowed by Jessie (Tifa's promise scene is during Jessie's side-quest). I also believe new gamers probably forgot about Tifa's scenes by the end due to Aerith's storyline being the main narrative. Not only does Aerith propel the storyline to Shinra HQ, but she is the one who confronts Sephiroth and asks everyone to join her in stopping him.

That's your personal option on the matter, which is fine since this thread is full of personal opinions anyways, but that doesn't mean it's a fact. I, for once, didn't feel Tifa's scenes were overshadowed at all, but that's my opinion ofc.

Also, I don't understand why you keep bringing Aerith's importance to the plot as a way of proving CxA ?! Aerith is definitely the catalyst for the narrative, however, this doesn't automatically means: being important on the main plot = being the main romantic interest.

I know I'll get criticized for bringing this up again, but if you look at this from the perspective of someone new to the FFVII fandom, I don't see how my analysis is far off.

Sure, if you already love Tifa and CxT, you will disagree. But I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who played the Remake with no prior knowledge.

After all that transpires, what would a casual gamer likely think by the end of the game?

To me, the answer is obvious: Aerith. Aerith. Aerith.

Tifa's scenes happen way too early and are overshadowed by Jessie. On the contrary, Aerith's storyline drives the main narrative forward for the majority of the Remake.

I guess I come at this from such a polar opposite perspective from most of the people on this forum.

Well, if the players aren't thinking about Aerith's importance by the end of this game, they definitely should! Just like the OG, I guess?!

Aerith's importance for the narrative/Cloud/Everyone should be established fast and from the very beginning, even more, if the devs decided to keep the events from OG game in the next parts. Nothing new here tbh.

Also, you keep bringing Jessie as a way to disprove Cloti (even tho you said many times the LTD only consists of Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith) which is funny really bc Jessie is pretty much the Aerith of the first part of the game.

While Tifa and Cloud got their very specific moments, both Jessie and Aerith got a few similar moments with Cloud ... if every CxA interaction is romantic by default, then should we consider JessiexCloud interactions romantic, too? See? It's not hard to distort moments to justify a narrative, I can do that, too.

Point is -- what CxA lost from the OG in Midgar was more than made up for with what we gained. We literally have a scene that discusses LOVE. What more could we ask for? Cloud wants his OWN SAY on loving Aerith. That's f'ing amazing.

And why do people in this thread keep bringing up Zack as if he disqualifies Clerith?

We know the REAL Cloud grew to care for Aerith. That's why he has has feelings for her in AC. Can we just stop with the Zack nonsense? HE IS NOT IN THE OFFICIALLY ESTABLISHED LOVE TRIANGLE.

Zack is only brought up to delegitimize Clerith despite Aerith saying she wants to move FORWARD with her life & despite the REAL Cloud showing feelings for Aerith *AFTER* regaining his memories.

You're the only one who keeps bringing Zack, tho?

But you know? I understand what you mean! Zack was important to Aerith and she had feelings for him, but now that he's dead, you want her to be able to move on and love again, right?

It's funny, Aerith sometimes looks quite plain to me.
But I'm a woman so what do I know?
Barret has the most beautiful eyes in the entire game. Fact.

YES! His eyes are just..

 

[Strangelove]

Barret has the most beautiful eyes in the entire game. Fact.

i just played this bit again and really like barret's sincere face here when he takes off his sunglasses, he's got a bit of a puppy dog thing going on

i want barret to threshold carry me away from this horrible topic

 

[BlankBeat]

I'm sure that's a question Nomura, Kitase, and Nojima have asked themselves and one another.

What if they get Holy moving sooner this time? Or prevent Meteor's casting altogether (I figure this one is unlikely, but still worth pondering)?

All good questions.

But as it pertains to the LTD, I think Aerith will die at a later point in the game.

If equal screen-time is a big factor for SE in the Remake, and Tifa got more scenes in Midgar, then Aerith will likely get more scenes later on. This suggests to me that Aerith will die at a later point in the game so we can play with her until fairly close to the end.

Just like with the dream vs. hug, will Aerith now have the possibility to be an option under the Highwind?

I know this suggestion will make everyone's heads explode.

But if you look at it objectively, the Highwind scene was always inherently variable from day 1. And if SE is going to continue with "equal time" (dream vs. hug), I bet we will see Aerith being an option for scenes like the Highwind scene later in the game.

I don't see how Tifa can get more scenes in Midgar without Aerith getting more scenes later on. According to SE, they are going to keep it equal.

It could come down to which of the Chapter 14 scenes they get, and whether they're aware that there are other versions. Since many players are probably going to try doing most or all of the sidequests available to them in Chapters 3 and 8, for many the deciding factor in which Chapter 14 scene they get will just be who they spoke to first in the sewers.

Do we know conclusively what choices impact the scene that is obtained?

Not to bring up the OG again, but to make a point about the Remake...

At the very start of FFVII, Aerith begins with 20 more love points than Tifa. Tifa will only catch up to Aerith if you make pro-Tifa choices. If you make anti-Tifa choices, Aerith remains in 1st place.

Aerith is automatically given 1st place — no choices required.

Given that the dream or hug occurs immediately prior to rescuing Aerith from Shinra HQ, this suggests to me that her scene would be the easier scene to obtain. It makes more sense narratively.

Cloud declares in the dream scene that he is "coming" for Aerith. In other words, Cloud is going to rescue her from Shinra HQ.

The reason Aerith is automatically given the 1st place position with no choices required in the OG is because her Gold Saucer date makes the most sense narratively. Just like the dream scene makes more sense narratively (and is included in the credits).

Point is -- Aerith's dream and Aerith's Gold Saucer date make more sense narratively than Tifa's Gold Saucer date and Tifa's hug.

Since the OG made Aerith start off with more love points so her date was easier to obtain due to it being a better fit for the narrative, wouldn't that likely still be the case with Aerith's dream scene?

Cloud is going to rescue Aerith from Shinra HQ, and says he is "coming" for her in the dream. Seems to me the dream scene would be the easier scene to obtain because it is a better fit for the story just like the CxA Gold Saucer date is a better fit for the story. The starting love point totals in the OG validate this theory.

Which takes me back to my original point...

New gamers will likely see the Remake as Aerith, Aerith, Aerith. Why? Because Aerith is the main narrative.

Always has been. Always will be.

Sure, Tifa helps Cloud rediscover childhood memories. But Aerith's Cetra heritage drives the main narrative forward, especially when one considers her ultimate death, Holy, and directing the lifestream to save the Planet.

Aerith is the first image we see in the game and the last image we see in the game. In a lot of ways, FFVII is her story.

 

[Lazy Turtle]

I think it's just pretty telling, (without bringing up the compilation), that we now have scenes of Tifa on top of Cloud, Tifa running into his chest, the constant hand-reaching. There's a level of physical closeness that's being set up that isn't seen with the other girls. If they wanted to establish Clerith as endgame and on par with other Final Fantasy couples, I would have liked to see some sexual tension with them as well. There was none though.

I remember in FFX you have the option as Tidus to choose Lulu as more your type thanks to dialogue options. No one really talks about it because his big non-optional romantic scene with Yuna happens anyway. This is where I think the illusion of choice in OG FF7 has really colored people's perception of Cloud a certain way. He really is all about Tifa, but it doesn't mean he cannot be attracted to Aerith. I just can't really compare that to the depth of feelings he has for Tifa, though, and I think that's where the problem lies.

I remember listening to a podcast about visual storytelling on YouTube about how writers sometimes prepare viewers for a sex scene near the end of a movie by flirting with subtle hints in the beginning. This was quite a few years ago so I forgot which video it was but your comment made me think of it.

I agree with your comment and I think it’s actually very revealing what they’re doing here with Cloud and Tifa’s dynamic. It’s true that Cloud has his touchy moments with the other girls as well but like you said,I just don’t see it coming off as intimate as with Tifa.

I’ll admit that I haven’t played the remake and only watched some of the cutscenes but I find it interesting that even though the remake removed the part where Cloud and Tifa shares the same prison cell with the one bed and the “how did you sleep?” “Next to you?” dialogue in the beginning, they still tease us with the two sharing rooms next to each other and subsequently showing scenes where they both visit each other’s bedrooms. I believe one of the devs made a special comment on this part about it being a Japanese style apartment and they looked forward to the audience watching it... I’m just imagining they’re doing all this as a way to prepare for under the highwind scene.

Maybe I’m wrong but I think when you try to go to Jessie’s room after she invites you in, the game doesn’t let you do it right?

I think Cloud had a far stronger reaction to Aerith's dress than Tifa's (actually, more of a non-reaction for the latter). Other than that yeah, he's definitely more touchy-reachy-holdy with Tifa. But it's a different dynamic. I wouldn't compare the two on physical chemistry alone.

Who wouldn’t have eyeballs or (eyes and balls) for a pretty lady, right? Where to find the heart is the tricky part.

Though honestly this part reminds me of Harry’s reaction to Hermione’s dress at the Yule ball. But most people know Hermione ends up creating a family with Harry’s best friend, Ron.

…I really would like to discuss Cloud’s best friend, Zack, but I’m afraid he has to sign up somewhere to be officially a part of Cloud’s love story.

 

[chewbaka]

hiya fellas so for people who may not know i'll just drop the TLDR and say that i think the way cloti is being done so far isn't sitting with me well. eerie replied to me and suggested i move it to here so this is what i'm doing.

Spoiler

Don't forget several points; first, in the Midgard part, there was very little cloti in the OG, because cloti is a slow burn that develops later. However, since they were focusing on Midgard only, they had to up the number of scenes for cloti, especially since they wanted the girls to have even scenes with Cloud now.

i do understand, as i said in my previous post, on why they're doing this. and honestly? i was mulling over it for a day, and this could literally just be me. no seriously, just me, in the whole globe. when i really want something, i will do whatever it takes to get it. and if that includes waiting, i will wait. wait years, if what i want at the end of the day gets me what i want. it's a peeve with my family honestly, because sometimes i take to long to make meals or get to something because i want everything to be just right, so i can enjoy it to perfection. so it's not as if i don't understand i'm in the unpopular opinion slide, but i really, really might just be the only one who even thinks like this.

And Tifa is nicely expanded on, as we can see her doubts, but still going on missions to help Avalanche, to finally crying on Cloud's shoulder because of the massive loss they both had. Also I do think that their scene in ch14 was excessively well done and represents the ship in the best way it could.

i have two opinions on the matter actually. for tifa's expansion and complexities, i was amazed by it at first and it's well done...to an extent. which leads me to the hug scene. when she said "They beat us...Again," i almost felt my own self reaching out to comfort her, because she's just that well written and with her voice actors (jpn or eng it doesn't matter). but then when that lead to the hug, that's when it basically cemented my feelings on the matter. whatever tifa feels as the complex character she is, it leads to somehow being a heard hitting cloti clue instead of it just being focused on her as a character. like, even the time barret hugged her, it was later revealed to just be a setup for the hug cloud gave her afterwards. there are moments when her own character gets to have her own room, but for the most part i feel it's just a cloti setup. that's why i said i feel aerith is very much her own character and motives in comparison.

Given the number of fans who love cloti, they couldn't, and won't be able to "tone it down", especially since this time around, I do feel that they're giving it ground, unlike the OG, for the things that happen after Aerith's death can look more smooth and credible. All in all, I do find cloti to be STILL a slow burn BTW, compared to clerith. Even with Aerith's new reactions.

i strongly disagree on cloti still being a slowburn. if we add up everything that was done, it's more a show from the getgo that these two are endgame. cloud's immediate change to the point of actual flirting when we first meet tifa, the mini constant praises i talked about beforehand, the hug, the jump out the train, the many "valid-reasons-but-not-really-valid-reasons-because-i-actually-just-want-to-do-it" touches throughout the entire game....they aren't subtle to me. but i have read some reviews, and there isn't one that hasn't said that all of these things are very natural and realistic for two people struggling with their feelings with each other, and considering i've never been in love i'll just have to take their word for it. as i admitted, this could just be me and my weirdo self

 

[Graymouse]

Aerith is the first image we see in the game and the last image we see in the game. In a lot of ways, FFVII is her story.

BlankBeat,

I am sorry but FF7 is not Areith's story. Just like it is not Tifa's, Barrets, or anybody elses individual story. FF7 story is about a group of rag ta group of friends who set out to save the world. To think otherwise would disgenious to the entire cast of characters.