SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
Warning - Don't click if you don't wanna see one of the most dumbass takes you've ever seen in your life


This is what gets spouted everyday. It doesn't help when a prominent Clerith streamer repeats false claims like

"Cloud wanted to die in AC to see Aerith that's why Tifa says a memory or us" - Completely false
"Cloud says at the end of OG that he wants to go meet her there" - Pretty sure at this point is a well known mistranslation?
I fail to see how they haven't cottoned on to the fact that the ones they're referring to are the edgy (at worst) anime protags who, I think, we only side with cause everybody else is worse.

Still, while I do agree that it's best to just ignore those takes, it's much better if they have no room to make such takes at all. Then again, I used to see fanart of drunk Naruto cause he doesn't actually love his family and is pining to be with Sakura, so I guess that's just how it is with people like these.

I skimmed through the hour long Aerith/Cloud “romance” compilation on YouTube. The body language is so different. For example: the first Gold Saucer date when you just explore - with Tifa she takes Cloud’s hand gently and they walk together that way. Aerith grabs his arm and yanks him along.

Did they do this on purpose or are they really just going for the girls are different “flavors” or something? Tifa is shy and demure and Aerith is assertive and spunky - choose which one you like! I hope it’s not that.
God, I hope it's not that, either. That's such a dating sim/ harem anime cliche (that I loathe).

That said, I always took Aerith's nature as something that is meant to come off as attractive. The writers are Japanese men, and from what I know, a woman being as forward as Aerith is isn't exactly expected or common. Tifa being demure, on the other hand, is the opposite.

- in my case I dont hate Aerith either if you look at her actions is a bit sad but I have to say ( sorry for those who like her ) I don't enjoy it even more in Rebirth. But maybe this is one of her flaw.. soo I'm just riding along.. same w/ Cloud's reaction.
Joining in on this, my stance is I appreciate Aerith's role more than her as a character ^^; My metric for liking a character is either how much I'd love to be friends with them if they existed or how well they fit their role (more in the case of villains).

Aerith in Rebirth just...hits all of my sore spots.
 
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AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
I just had to laugh reading those delusional comments about Tifa’s kiss. They’re so hypocritical.

Tell me you are absolutely struggling to even cope with your ship without telling me.

Cause if things were reversed? And it was Aerith who got a kiss after also not being upfront about hers and Tifa’s conversation about Zack, then do you think they’d be saying the same thing here, that Cloud is only using Aerith.

Of course they wouldn’t. Arguments as weak as this is literally all they have. They can scream all this into the void it doesn’t change a damn thing.

This is significant in all the ways they’re repeatedly denying and overlooking because it happened to Tifa and not Aerith, but in the entire history of Final Fantasy VII this was Cloud Strife’s first kiss. And he kissed the woman he wanted to kiss.

You can imagine it to be for the reasons that help you cope with the reality that he didn’t kiss Aerith, and that everything else is a romance with Aerith despite him also kissing Tifa cause sure that makes for a great love story. Wow Cloud, what a great boyfriend you are kissing another girl but being so in love with me!

That’s what they’re convinced of and it’s just laughable. The only way they can come away and invalidate the kiss is to also invalidate Cloud.

There’s no way they can twist things to suit their narrative without it making Cloud look awful. But anything goes apparently for Aerith.

Ye gods

Last time I’m even going to bother arguing against these sorts of takes. They can’t see it and nothing will ever change their minds.

The only thing that can be hoped for is that they don’t actually use their arguments to attack others. Same with those who ship Cloud and Tifa. Because there is no point in uselessly arguing a lost cause. What’s the point? They aren’t going to change their minds. Better they repeat ad nauseam in an echo chamber with fellow like minded folks which is what I think they’ll do more of given the vast majority and overall consensus goes completely against their own interests, then spread their false narrative everywhere else.
 
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Hix

Pro Adventurer
This is what gets spouted everyday. It doesn't help when a prominent Clerith streamer repeats false claims like

"Cloud wanted to die in AC to see Aerith that's why Tifa says a memory or us" - Completely false
"Cloud says at the end of OG that he wants to go meet her there" - Pretty sure at this point is a well known mistranslation?

Dirge of Cerberus establishes Cloud does not feel this way and is happy, symbolised by "the smile" at the end of ACC and his finally putting the past behind him and moving on with his family.

Indeed, the 10th Anniversary Ultimania summarises the conclusion of ACC as "With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward." - the wording used for "important woman" (taisetsu na josei) refers to one's partner/wife/serious long term relationship.

--

On another note, while I dislike the idea that one can cherry pick quotes to brute-force the narrative in a direction clearly not intended by the devs, I must say the greater sin here is how this narrative leaves the characters themselves.

Cloud is hyper depressed and suicidal, giving up on life at the age of 21, caring not for the thoughts of his friends and family. Aerith is a bitch, actively encouraging Cloud to be miserable while simultaneously being mean and uncaring to Zack who is only conscious - and with her in the Lifestream - because she willed it so. Speaking of Zack, he gets to be friendzoned for all eternity, yay, clearly he deserved it. Tifa is just a nothing character who may as well not actually exist.

Correct. They only watch YouTube clips of scenes with Aerith and Cloud. They have no interest in any other part of the actual story. It's odd for sure.

Exactly this and it's why they are surprised to see characters not acting like how they think they should be acting. How many times have we already heard "that's not Cloud" about him kissing Tifa? Even in this thread I've seen people handwaving away Crisis Core because "that's not Aerith" writing 89 unrequited love letters to Zack.

The problem is, these people don't actually know the characters themselves, or seem able to compute that just as in real life people can relate to others differently depending on their relationships. How I talk to my spouse differs wildly from my siblings, or my friends. It's clear the devs are teaching us that Cloud is absolutely a guy who would want to kiss someone he seriously fancies and that Aerith genuinely, truly loves Zack enough to write those letters over 4-5 years.
 
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AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
Does anyone know whether it was fully stated by the developers, that No Promises to Keep is Aerith singing about her feelings about Cloud? If anyone does have an interview or line that concretely said, from the devs, that the song is about Cloud then please disregard the following cause I’ll admit to the below being wrong.

For me personally, I seriously struggle with the idea that No Promises to Keep is just about Cloud. And I am usually loathe to analyse and hypothesise about lyrics from songs, because arguably lyrics from any song can be open to interpretation, as is the nature of lyricism and poetry etc. BUT given the full context of everything that happens in Rebirth, and what they show in regards to Cloud, Aerith, and yes ZACK, I fail to see how the song can only be about Cloud, and not implicitly also about Zack. Arguably if not more so.

In the song (that she wrote herself, writing what’s in her heart being a very important and defining aspect to her relationship with Zack the guy she wrote 89 letters to) she’s singing about meeting someone again.

Now again, correct me if I’m wrong, but at the point of time in the story Aerith is singing this, it’s before she’s made aware of her likely death? Like, at this point what reason would she have to believe she’ll be separated from Cloud and the party? She didn’t have this impression in the original, and her future memories of her fate were taken from her, so why would she sing about meeting Cloud again?

Meeting Zack again on the other hand? Her first love who she has been separated from.

I know some have argued she’s singing about meeting the real Cloud, but she says in the song meeting again, so I don’t think that’s what she means cause if she hasn’t met the real Cloud it’s hardly her meeting him again.

Thematically, post final standoff, Zack’s entire story and arc is literally about finding Aerith again.

“Promises to keep - we won’t ever need.”

Again someone correct me, but Cloud and Aerith at this point haven’t made any promises to each other? There is a very important promise made between Cloud and Tifa, but also promises kept between Zack and Aerith. Zack even makes a promise to Aerith beneath the same water tower Cloud made his promise to Tifa.

So again I find it hard to see Aerith singing about her and Cloud not needing to keep promises, when it feels more likely that if and when she and Zack meet again, they wouldn’t need to keep promises anymore, because they’ve found each other.

That just makes more sense within the entire framework of the story and characters right?

“Still, I know some day you'll come and find me”

Again and I don’t want to be beating a dead horse, why would she be saying this about Cloud? He’s literally right there.

And regarding the story going forward, there’s nothing to suggest Cloud will be seeking to find Aerith in the context Aerith implies, unless it’s a reference to finding Aerith in the Promised Land (together with Tifa)

It speaks more to what’s being shown in the story with Zack, and further implied by Zack’s final line in the story about worlds uniting.

Zack has yet to truly find and reunite with Aerith. So that line again reaffirms to me the idea that deep within her heart, Aerith wrote that song about Zack, her first love, who she has complicated feelings about still. The song definitely conveys the conflict Aerith feels about her feelings for Cloud but I can’t come away from hearing the song thinking it’s just about Cloud. It’s about how Cloud found her, be it fate or destiny, and how that brought about a desire on Aerith’s part for Zack and her to see each other again.

It’s not against Aerith nor her character for her to both want to find and meet the real Cloud, and for her to see Zack again, and for there to be no more promises to keep.

That’s how I see the song anyway.

And it’s backed up by Aerith’s intimate date.

Lastly, Cloud and Aerith are 100% not the types of people the hardcore Cloud and Aerith shippers think they are. Because in their date, when the Skywheel shudders and the two are accidentally flung together closely, and there close enough where it looks like they’ll kiss, Cloud and Aerith both quickly pull away, and both their body language and expressions say that they both know that would be a bad idea. They’re good people, who both know and care about Tifa and Zack.

Cloud wouldn’t act on feelings that would be upsetting to Aerith, who does still have feelings for Zack. He wouldn’t act on feelings that would be an insult to the memory of his best friend, who he knew loved Aerith. And he wouldn’t play both girls along by kissing Tifa and then kissing Aerith. He hates the idea he could hurt Tifa in any way, and as the original shows, he completely falls apart when Tifa’s faith in him falters. So he absolutely would not do anything in this scenario that would be upsetting to Tifa or disrespectful of her feelings.

And Aerith too proves in her date that she isn’t the terrible homewrecker some are trying to paint her as on the opposite side of the debate. She’s not trying to steal Cloud. And her body language and expressions show this. She knows how bad an idea it would be. For Cloud himself, for her own feelings, and for her friendship with Tifa.

Her reaching out and resting her head on his arm is an act of intimacy yes, of reaching out and needing someone to anchor her in the emotional turmoil she’s feeling. And Cloud recognises that and responds to it. It’s a beautiful scene that fully conveys the understanding and respect they have for each other, in that given moment.

Any true fan of their relationship should be happy the developers understand these characters and this relationship, and were able to fully convey this in their date.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
In all honesty, I do believe it is very selfish of the C/A fandom to try and take away the tender moment that C/T shared with each other. This one moment has been built up since Remake with them rolling off the train. With the payoff at the GS date. It was a long build up (slow burn if you will) and it is being reduced to a "pitty kiss" just because it doesn't fit a particular "head canon", is insane to me. Especially what Tifa said before said kiss. It is 100% genuine and consensual by both.

I am proud of Cloud breaking through all doubts and reconfirms to Tifa that she is not getting ahead of herself. The character development of these two!
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Does anyone know whether it was fully stated by the developers, that No Promises to Keep is Aerith singing about her feelings about Cloud?
No statement from Nojima yet.

Nomura mentioned that TGA trailer is arranged frame by frame carefully to match the song.

Uematsu said, "the poignant melody from 'Aerith's Theme' does not appear in this song. I wanted to depict the opposite of this, the strength at her core, hidden within Aerith's heart."

The singer ever said in the interview that she needs to learn about Aerith's character, Cloud, and the story of FFVII.

The official page of this song has the shot of Aerith leaning on Cloud's arm from the theme song trailer as background image.

What make the interpretation of her feelings for Cloud especially comes from the first verse that likely refer to the Loveless avenue when they first meet.
Walking city streets with worn cobblestones
Listening to people rushing past to rythms all their own
Life passing me by, not thinking how the years have flown
Until I met you
So, it's like.... Aerith is very lonely that 5 years has been passed since Zack never returned, but then she meet Cloud and feel better
 
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Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
And Aerith too proves in her date that she isn’t the terrible homewrecker some are trying to paint her as on the opposite side of the debate. She’s not trying to steal Cloud. And her body language and expressions show this. She knows how bad an idea it would be. For Cloud himself, for her own feelings, and for her friendship with Tifa.

Her reaching out and resting her head on his arm is an act of intimacy yes, of reaching out and needing someone to anchor her in the emotional turmoil she’s feeling. And Cloud recognises that and responds to it. It’s a beautiful scene that fully conveys the understanding and respect they have for each other, in that given moment.

Any true fan of their relationship should be happy the developers understand these characters and this relationship, and were able to fully convey this in their date.
I just watched this scene, and honestly, if the LTD wasn't such a big deal, this scene is 100% beautiful. I like the scene, actually.
We need more portrayals of people of the opposite gender providing comfort to one another without romanticizing it.
 

shady

Pro Adventurer
Does anyone know whether it was fully stated by the developers, that No Promises to Keep is Aerith singing about her feelings about Cloud? If anyone does have an interview or line that concretely said, from the devs, that the song is about Cloud then please disregard the following cause I’ll admit to the below being wrong.

For me personally, I seriously struggle with the idea that No Promises to Keep is just about Cloud. And I am usually loathe to analyse and hypothesise about lyrics from songs, because arguably lyrics from any song can be open to interpretation, as is the nature of lyricism and poetry etc. BUT given the full context of everything that happens in Rebirth, and what they show in regards to Cloud, Aerith, and yes ZACK, I fail to see how the song can only be about Cloud, and not implicitly also about Zack. Arguably if not more so.

In the song (that she wrote herself, writing what’s in her heart being a very important and defining aspect to her relationship with Zack the guy she wrote 89 letters to) she’s singing about meeting someone again.

Now again, correct me if I’m wrong, but at the point of time in the story Aerith is singing this, it’s before she’s made aware of her likely death? Like, at this point what reason would she have to believe she’ll be separated from Cloud and the party? She didn’t have this impression in the original, and her future memories of her fate were taken from her, so why would she sing about meeting Cloud again?

Meeting Zack again on the other hand? Her first love who she has been separated from.

I know some have argued she’s singing about meeting the real Cloud, but she says in the song meeting again, so I don’t think that’s what she means cause if she hasn’t met the real Cloud it’s hardly her meeting him again.

Thematically, post final standoff, Zack’s entire story and arc is literally about finding Aerith again.

“Promises to keep - we won’t ever need.”

Again someone correct me, but Cloud and Aerith at this point haven’t made any promises to each other? There is a very important promise made between Cloud and Tifa, but also promises kept between Zack and Aerith. Zack even makes a promise to Aerith beneath the same water tower Cloud made his promise to Tifa.

So again I find it hard to see Aerith singing about her and Cloud not needing to keep promises, when it feels more likely that if and when she and Zack meet again, they wouldn’t need to keep promises anymore, because they’ve found each other.

That just makes more sense within the entire framework of the story and characters right?

“Still, I know some day you'll come and find me”

Again and I don’t want to be beating a dead horse, why would she be saying this about Cloud? He’s literally right there.

And regarding the story going forward, there’s nothing to suggest Cloud will be seeking to find Aerith in the context Aerith implies, unless it’s a reference to finding Aerith in the Promised Land (together with Tifa)

It speaks more to what’s being shown in the story with Zack, and further implied by Zack’s final line in the story about worlds uniting.

Zack has yet to truly find and reunite with Aerith. So that line again reaffirms to me the idea that deep within her heart, Aerith wrote that song about Zack, her first love, who she has complicated feelings about still. The song definitely conveys the conflict Aerith feels about her feelings for Cloud but I can’t come away from hearing the song thinking it’s just about Cloud. It’s about how Cloud found her, be it fate or destiny, and how that brought about a desire on Aerith’s part for Zack and her to see each other again.

It’s not against Aerith nor her character for her to both want to find and meet the real Cloud, and for her to see Zack again, and for there to be no more promises to keep.

That’s how I see the song anyway.

And it’s backed up by Aerith’s intimate date.

Lastly, Cloud and Aerith are 100% not the types of people the hardcore Cloud and Aerith shippers think they are. Because in their date, when the Skywheel shudders and the two are accidentally flung together closely, and there close enough where it looks like they’ll kiss, Cloud and Aerith both quickly pull away, and both their body language and expressions say that they both know that would be a bad idea. They’re good people, who both know and care about Tifa and Zack.

Cloud wouldn’t act on feelings that would be upsetting to Aerith, who does still have feelings for Zack. He wouldn’t act on feelings that would be an insult to the memory of his best friend, who he knew loved Aerith. And he wouldn’t play both girls along by kissing Tifa and then kissing Aerith. He hates the idea he could hurt Tifa in any way, and as the original shows, he completely falls apart when Tifa’s faith in him falters. So he absolutely would not do anything in this scenario that would be upsetting to Tifa or disrespectful of her feelings.

And Aerith too proves in her date that she isn’t the terrible homewrecker some are trying to paint her as on the opposite side of the debate. She’s not trying to steal Cloud. And her body language and expressions show this. She knows how bad an idea it would be. For Cloud himself, for her own feelings, and for her friendship with Tifa.

Her reaching out and resting her head on his arm is an act of intimacy yes, of reaching out and needing someone to anchor her in the emotional turmoil she’s feeling. And Cloud recognises that and responds to it. It’s a beautiful scene that fully conveys the understanding and respect they have for each other, in that given moment.

Any true fan of their relationship should be happy the developers understand these characters and this relationship, and were able to fully convey this in their date.
Had another discussion about this yesterday on discord because there were Cloud and Aeriths on twitter who were arguing Hollow and NPTK are Clerith love anthems.

Now as far as i’m aware (but also correct me if i’m mistaken) but the developers have said Hollow is about Cloud’s feelings and NPTK is about Aerith’s feelings, i don’t think they’ve expressly said they are about their feelings for each other.

I interpet Hollow to be about Clouds feelings of loss and grief towards everything he has lost, this includes Zack and eventually Aerith. You can say the lyrics speak only of Aerith (even though at this point we’re in game 1 and she is not close to death so I find it hard to say its about Aerith but it does play in her sections) but then why is it the song plays in the area that Zack died in Rebirth as well?

Why does Cloud allude to being hollowed out when he realises he forgot who Zack is and what happened to him?

There’s too much evidence to suggest it’s not just a Clerith love song but is about Zack minimum, most likely Zack and Aerith. Particularly when one of the directors mentioned we need to listen out for where the song plays.

NPTK is a bit more tricky because we don’t have as much information about it as we do Hollow, on the surface I can see why there would be claims it’s a Clerith love song, or at least a song about Aerith’s feelings towards Cloud and I don’t necessarily believe that is wrong, but there are just too many questions to answer for me on it, such as..

Why is it a song for only for Cloud when even after this she seems to tell Cloud directly she isn’t even sure what kind of like she likes him

They haven’t made a Promise to each other unlike CT or ZA, the only Promise you can infer that this means is the chat at the end of the game where Cloud promises to kill Sephiroth, so maybe it’s that

The Sector 5 date and the Church moment are intertwined constantly with Zack scenes, it's extremely weird placement, maybe even intentional?

"Our place" I'm sorry but I don't believe the church is Cloud and Aerith's place, that belongs to Zack and Aerith. During the S5 date when Aerith tells Cloud about meeting at their place, Cloud doesn't seem to have a clue where she's even talking about, she has to say "It's one of my favourite places come on" and basically spell out the answer for him to even get it, before he trails after her when she runs off.

If you date Tifa during the song Cloud intentionally makes to hold Tifa's hand during the lyrics of taking each others hand and being together, that's pretty foul for a Clerith love song

As eleamaya says above, the trailer was carefully arranged frame by frame with the song... well at a certain point in the trailer (forget which point) you get the scene of Zack cradling Aerith.

Also someone i spoke to at the time made a great point..

During the GS date with Tifa or Aerith you can see Tifa confronts Aerith with the news that Cloud actually does remember who Zack was now, and Aerith is shocked and saddened by this. If you look at the location they are in this could only have happened at the GS, more specifically GS the second time (because Cloud only tells Tifa of this in Nibelheim I believe) just as LOVELESS and the Gondola date are about to happen. This can only mean she was either told just before she wrote the song and performed it, or she wrote the song, was told, and then performed it. Is this why she gets upset at the end too?

To me I think NPTK fits in with what seems to happen after Gongaga and beyond in Rebirth, confirmed even more by the S5 date and the Church sequence interspersed with Zack sequences. It's a song about her conflicting feelings towards both Zack and Cloud and the feelings in her heart that she doesn't know how to quantify, and so writes them down in the form of a song. Now I may be completely off base with this and it is indeed a straight up Clerith song, but much like Aerith's feelings in this game I think it might be a little more complex than that, I just feel there are many questions surrounding the song, Aerith's feelings, Cloud, Zack etc. Until the developer says otherwise or maybe in the Ultimania or something i'm going to be conflicted on this song specifically.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I just think if you have to make Cloud seem like a piece of shit in order to hand wave away his interactions with Tifa then you have to wonder why he would even deserve to be with Aerith.

You also have to ignore that she wants Cloud to not blame himself and be happy again, which just waiting to die would run counter to.

Not to mention, it would further make Cloud a terrible person in ACC onwards because he’s living with a woman he should be allowing to move on and seek other relationships if he’s truly unavailable.

It also makes Aerith look bad because she’s willfully ignoring the guy who spent his final moments trying to reunite with her and giving his life to save Cloud.
 

A-to-Z

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I think it’s fair to assume that it’s about both cloud and zack and her feelings towards both men, (to be fair, aerith’s dream date with cloud has zack written all over it too all the while nptk’s instrumental plays)

More to note:
  • Some of NPTK lyrics can allude to words exchanged between zack and aerith in CC like “I’ll see you, I promise” Zack to Aerith, in call at the nibelheim water tower
  • “All the burdens I was born to bear” — ‘burden to bear’ is the name of the song that plays in the church in CC
  • take my hand so we can be together ever more” there was a scene in Rebirth where aerith felt her hand being held by zack despite the latter being in another timeline/world (holding aerith’s hand there).
  • Zack and Aerith meet “by CHANCE” in a church in the Slums. They become intimate with each other. –FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania.
  • “She has a fateful encounter with Zack and they become irreplaceable to each other” - FF7 CC Ultimania, Aerith’s profile

Though i still think it’s possible parts of the song can be about could as well since (if my memory serves right) both her first meetings with the guys are described as “fateful encounters” in the ultimanias. I’m also not convinced that it’s ONLY about cloud exclusively though. The song is very star-crossed lovers, and I’m not hating since I love their bond too but I personally could never categorize CA as star-crossed lovers because whats tearing them apart isn’t a death or external conflict, (in fact they are pushed together by the external conflict the entire time) it’s the fact that they’ve always loved other equally relevant characters all along (and never showed signs of wavering, unless you want aerith to fully be in love with a guy with a fake identity, like seriously why would, anyone, as an aerith stan want to ship him with a guy who kisses other women is beyond me).

Lots of people argue because “they can move on” but considering ff7 is a story about finding purpose, realizing your true identity and going back to who you are, I think the game even in the OG has made it quite clear that persisting romantic feelings that were established in the past are important in defining present character motivations. Otherwise, aerith wouldn’t have been attracted to cloud (since he reminds her of zack) and then ended up in the lifestream with zack, and cloud wouldn’t have developed a soldier persona (because he wanted to be special to tifa.) and then recovered his real identity through tifa’s help.

If hollow was really about zack, like what rebirth implied, that means the next theme song can also likely refer to an event that already happened. cloud has already lost zack/his identity; so if NPTK is pertaining to aerith’s feelings, it might refer to a separation that already happened. (The way extreme CA shippers are blind to zack’s looming presence on what they consider to be canon evidence is so frustrating lol)

The shipper in me is like:
If hollow is about cloud losing zack/his identity
Nptk is about aerith and her feelings for zack and cloud
I hope part 3’s song is about tifa reuniting with the real cloud
 

thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
The parts of the song referencing the individual in the future "finding her" and their spending eternity together are, in fact, exactly what happens by Advent Children Complete
- I dont really have a good conversation of a CA people and my CA friends mostly drifted away.. what's the 'finding her" part in advent children?? thaaanks I really dont understand whenever CA argues that.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
It says in one of the Ultimanias that the church is a place of peace for Cloud, where he met Aerith. It's as much CA as ZA and indeed some scenes were made as homage/tribute to each other.

Though in the end the church is for everyone 💜
 
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thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
Not LTD related but just for fun' a bit -->


Cloud's Bridal Carry of Doom - Haha
Well When he bridal carry Jessie and Aerith they're both fine ( just twisted ankle on Jessie and Aerith falling on rooftop) but on Tifa's she's close to dying. SOo its safe to say his bridal carry of doom has the opposite effect

HEHEHEHHE :mon::mon::mon:

1709728457449.png
 

A-to-Z

Lv. 25 Adventurer
It says in one of the Ultimanias that the church is a place of peace for Cloud, where he met Aerith. It's as much CA as ZA and indeed some scenes were made as homage/tribute to each other.
That’s not where cloud and aerith first met, but i do believe it’s a place where cloud finds peace, it just means the church became special to cloud, because it was special to aerith, it was aerith’s favorite place—the reason for being which, is because it’s where she met zack.
 

thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
That’s not where cloud and aerith first met, but i do believe it’s a place where cloud finds peace, it just means the church became special to cloud, because it was special to aerith, it was aerith’s favorite place—the reason for being which, is because it’s where she met zack.

- He's torturing himself to be forgiven of memories of 'friends he failed to protect' Zack and Aerith hence he also returns to outskirts of Midgar where Zack dies.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Yeah! :D Special to all of them and indeed the children and peoples of sector 5, etc, especially when the flower bed becomes healing pool.

“When Cloud woke up, he found himself in a church which is quietly situated at five street of the Slum. Besides him, Cloud saw the figure of the flowergirl. Cloud had a moment of peace during the short conversation with Aerith.“ Square Enix

Part of why Cloud might think/say our place in Rebirth though again even though characters might hold it special individually it is not exclusive to them and the church is somewhere that is a place of solace (comfort) and peace to people.
 
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eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
The church itself symbolize spiritual and religious place, and I think it is what meant to Cloud, especially in AC.... like a sinner (Catholic) asking for repentance in a booth; we know what sin it is: the death of Zack & Aerith. Nojima even mention about baptism when Cloud healing Denzel in the ending. And because Aerith was dead, she is a spiritual presence; kind of like Mother Mary to her son. He doesn't meet Aerith as a person here, not till ending after his sins are cleansed, symbolized in her full face make appearance. Even when she's alive, he just met Aerith there once, that's why he had no clue at first when Aerith asks him about her favorite place. But since Rebirth story is before AC and the dream date is canon, he would also never forget that.

Meanwhile, Rebirth affirm that Loveless avenue is the place Cloud and Aerith meet. Fate plays there. Aerith writes a song that describes their meeting there. And Cloud remember their first meeting there when Sephiroth is controlling him in Temple of Ancient; seeing her in danger. This is different from Zack/Aerith where the church is the only special place for both of them.

As for Zack, Nomura himself in CCFF7 magazine interview said that Zack goes to the church whenever something is up in his mind as if looking for healing. This is probably the habit after Angeal's death, after being embraced by Aerith, the only place where he could show his vulnerable self. It's symbolic similar to Cloud in AC but I think it's not the church as spiritual place that heals him, but Aerith herself as a person. Two lonely persons meet (Sakamoto Maaya, Aerith JP VA interprets their relationship is like that) and this frequent meetings heal each other's loneliness. After what happened to Angeal, Zack feels lonely that his heart isnt with Shinra anymore, dunno what he's fighting for. This is implied in Kunsel's email as he offered himself for Zack to talk of anything that bother his mind; alas, Zack just goes to Aerith's place. It's the place where he feels in heaven and meet an angel, the place where his heart belongs and always returns to: Remake ending, Rebirth ending, even AC post-credit (his sword being placed there).

And btw, in JP dialogue when Cloud remember Zack in the inn, Zack told Cloud that the girl he loves is "A church girl" instead of "The real city mouse" in EN. This is two different words!

As for Aerith, Ifalna mentioned that they will go there, not the house in Sector 8 which Faz has prepared for them. But they never go there since Ifalna collapse in train station. She didn't go there till 14 years old where she runaway from home as she met Faz and carrying her there, the same place where Faz almost rapes her. It's also the place where kids sometimes play till the moment Aerith tells Kyria that her parents is dead. Kyrie calls her freak and the kids don't play there anymore, leaving Aerith lonely in the church and tending the flowers instead; probably also talking to them as a cope of feeling lonely since flowers are her only friend (not because she really could hear them like planet talking to her). It's all changed when she meet Zack. And when he's gone, the memory of him saying "tadaima~" whenever visiting her lingers there as she wait and wait that he probably open the church door again. Then suddenly she senses Zack passing away there.

"This is a strange place. Flowers blooming here, the season never change--my feelings never change. I'm stuck!!"
(Aerith's farewell monologue, FF 30th Anniversary Exhibition)

So, the church itself for Aerith is like.... both good and bad memories happen to her there.
 
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Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
I’m actually not aware of what the proper translation should be? What is it exactly?
I don't think it was so much a "mistranslation" as it was just assuming a pronoun? Japanese doesn't use pronouns that often and there was no pronoun in Cloud's line. But basically, the sentiment was that they can meet all the people they've lost? Which was also a reference to Tifa climbing Mount Nibel to see her mum again, I think.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I don't think it was so much a "mistranslation" as it was just assuming a pronoun? Japanese doesn't use pronouns that often and there was no pronoun in Cloud's line. But basically, the sentiment was that they can meet all the people they've lost? Which was also a reference to Tifa climbing Mount Nibel to see her mum again, I think.
So it’s just referring to “loved ones” in general and not necessarily Aerith? So when Tifa says “let’s go see her”, does she just mean “Let’s go see them?”
 

JaeKony

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JaeKony
So it’s just referring to “loved ones” in general and not necessarily Aerith? So when Tifa says “let’s go see her”, does she just mean “Let’s go see them?”
It depends on who you ask. C/A shippers would probably tell you he means Aerith specifically (which is also what the English translation implies), but @Ryeleigh is correct in saying that the OG Japanese script does not use a specific pronoun. Here’s a tumblr thread of one person discussing the implications of the line (They back up a lot of their points with evidence from guidebooks, ultimanias, and official material):
https://dutchdread.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F647488607324635136
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Worth remembering also is that Cloud is telling this to Tifa. This isn't an idle thought to himself, but something he's choosing to impart, and Tifa agrees with the sentiment and action. So it's less that it's not about Aerith at all and that it's not about just Cloud and Just Aerith. It's about Cloud and Tifa and maybe other people and Aerith and Zack and maybe other people.

This is not a declaration of a life goal, it's a declaration of "Hey, even if we all die, it's not the end." and it's said right before the Highwind makes its improbably dive to rescue them all.
 
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