SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
I would like to say something out of the box:
imagine that the devs want to bring CA canon, this would mean that:
1) Tifa as a character is useless;
2) Aerith is the worst character ever written because she decides to steal not a boy but Tifa's driving force, not caring about her as a friend;
3) The addition of Zack would only serve as a way of saying "look, you're so useless that we'll make you die again because we like the idea of seeing you suffer even in death at the idea that your girlfriend has become your best friend's girlfriend who incidentally also behaves exactly like you";
4) Let's make it pointless why Cloud became a SOLDIER;
5) Following point 4, we make the entire story of ff7 totally useless and no sense;
Come on, it's fine to believe that the devs are over the top, but totally burning a project just to please some pseudo CA fans (yes CA fans but not ff7 fans) really seems like something that clashes with a something called logic.
imagine that the devs want to bring CA canon, this would mean that:
1) Tifa as a character is useless;
2) Aerith is the worst character ever written because she decides to steal not a boy but Tifa's driving force, not caring about her as a friend;
3) The addition of Zack would only serve as a way of saying "look, you're so useless that we'll make you die again because we like the idea of seeing you suffer even in death at the idea that your girlfriend has become your best friend's girlfriend who incidentally also behaves exactly like you";
4) Let's make it pointless why Cloud became a SOLDIER;
5) Following point 4, we make the entire story of ff7 totally useless and no sense;
Come on, it's fine to believe that the devs are over the top, but totally burning a project just to please some pseudo CA fans (yes CA fans but not ff7 fans) really seems like something that clashes with a something called logic.
LunarTarotGirl
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I am not arguing against that but also you're assuming these people are also following the rules for whichever trial. If they're trying to prove we now need a retrial. Yes it would require it's own new evidence. Because yeah the situation has changed so the hypothesis and evidence has to match that as wel.
I think the problem here however is because more material keeps coming out there are more and more people who don't believe the trial is already done mixed in with those who do. Simply because the fanbase keeps growing larger for them they're starting from "the default position" and the LTD is now reaching casual audiences who would ask questions that are new to them not those who have been in the debate for years. I also just don't expect them to know the rules.
So it's not really that CA shouldn't prove itself. I just think if we're not on the same page at the start it's just going to go in circles.
And also extremists and those that don't really debate so they don't know the rules as I have seen over the years spent a lot more time on Cloud does not love Y rather than proving their side. The extremist stance is Cloud does not love Y with the assumption that he loves X is just a given default. And I can say even before Remake this was the case. Extreme CAs and CTs both basically argued like CA or CT was a given which is why we see strange arguments. Which is what I was referring to that drove me nuts.
It doesn't really apply to the logical arguments and debaters which did debate with the evidence they had and do follow the rules.
And that just in general it's very refreshing to hear someone use the correct definition of burden of proof bc yeah it's barely used right in any fandom setting.
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I'd say this Trailer put a narrative into the generall public and it stuck I guess. I personaly just saw on a Youtube Video I watched regarding ff7
I don’t know much about ff7 streams since I don’t have time to watch live streaming…I only know Max is a big streamer and he is Cloti as far as I know? But anyway I only saw his clips.
If you could drop some names of big streamers for Clerith that would be helpful. And we can really start to pull some numbers here.
To be honest when a streamer gets really big, they will start to partner with the game company to stream their games, and the streamers will start to give neutral opinions to the audiences on controversial things.They start to give you the feel of “yah I like X but sure y is good as well, I’m okay with that.”
If a streamer is really loud and has bunch of bias opinions, and they actually talks shit about other characters (or ships, or just in general) over 50% of chance the studios/game companies don’t give a f at what they says as well.
If you could drop some names of big streamers for Clerith that would be helpful. And we can really start to pull some numbers here.
To be honest when a streamer gets really big, they will start to partner with the game company to stream their games, and the streamers will start to give neutral opinions to the audiences on controversial things.They start to give you the feel of “yah I like X but sure y is good as well, I’m okay with that.”
If a streamer is really loud and has bunch of bias opinions, and they actually talks shit about other characters (or ships, or just in general) over 50% of chance the studios/game companies don’t give a f at what they says as well.
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I no longer use Twitter but I used lurk around cloti Twitter so the only clerith tweets I saw were just false proof and laughable fanfic... I mean "predictions and interpretation". So no its not that its just gaming youtubers I saw talk about this who otherwise don't talk about ff7 much
Really? If YouTube recommends you a FF7 trailer from back in 1997 when you just type in “FF7”, there is something wrong honestly. You should send a feedback to YouTube.
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Deleted member 26496
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Nah I saw that from a Youtube Video talking about ff7. It wasn't the main topic at all tho just a clip
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Deleted member 26496
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There's aruuuu, frankielollia and like a few others whose Name I don't know. I don't really watch streams either I just heard of them when I was still on Twitter
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Deleted member 26496
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You're probably referring to me but I don't know. That being said I think its important to mention that I don't believe any of the things you listed. Like none at all. I may seem like because I am more pessimistic but I am very much team cloti. I simply don't like the way Square Enix handels this 27 year strong LTD.
aruuu has 134.1k followers on twitch
frankielollia has 27.2k
Maximilian has 1.3m who prefers a cloti.
If we are living in the same earth, the difference is huge
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Deleted member 26496
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No need to be condescending about it you know.
That being said, I like Max a lot but he is also nowhere near as outspoken about it at all. Not that it matters to much since it wasn't my main point anyway and more like another thing to add to a pile.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's not even that he "prefers" CT, even if I think he does enjoy it. He just sees it as the story and he will tell his viewers. Also Max has a huge following because he has a lot of people following him for other games, but he's the biggest in the FFVII game, yes. Also people probably follow him even if they're not a fan of the game and they hear his opinions about the game too.
No i was not referring to you.
It's just a brief analysis of what bringing CA canon means to me. Oh and by the way I am not a CT/CA shipper.
Actually, now a question has come to mind that maybe someone more attentive can answer: I've read around some users who say something along the lines of "The game pushes CA". I guess I missed some part of the game because I don't remember any of this.
Hix
Pro Adventurer
I mean, it's about the quality over the quantity.
Max is a FGC guy at heart and Final Fantasy fan second, who has built a massive core of people who would listen to him read a phone book. Joe Gamer will tune in, watch him stream and see the obvious, yeah Cloud loves Tifa, doesn't get more overt than a kiss, there you go.
ARUUU et al are CA shippers first, CA shippers second. Their entire veiwer-base is an "all hands on deck" of people for whom facts are to be avoided. Such individuals already are content to eschew the source material in favor of head-canons and they tune in to her to validate that.
Your average gamer isn't interested in knowing that Nobuo Uematsu's social media intern once tweeted that No Promises To Keep was a love ballad, or that Lorenn Allred watched some Clerith Youtube videos and understood that the song must be solely about CA. The simplicity of removing one's self from the LTD discourse and looking at the overall picture is a revelation, believe me: Aerith dies, Tifa lives, gets a kiss and discovers in the Lifestream that Cloud has always loved her, once she heals his broken mind they connect under the Highwind as couples do and end up living together with adopted children. Nobody really cares about koibito tsunagi, it's all shipper nonsense and it's easy for even level headed observers to over-estimate the importance of such things based on the loudest voice in the room.
The default position of the Final Fantasy VII compilation is Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. People like Max don't go beyond that because there's no need to - they just play the game and appreciate it for what it is. I have no doubt your average gamer does the same.
Yah I’m just interested in where you got the impression that CA is the majority.
LunarTarotGirl
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I don't think it pushes CA but I don't see any instances where it's really discouraged either in it's own route.
If you compare other scenes and get all the dates CT is encouraged.
But I wouldn't say CA is pushed nor is it ever really shot down if you play the Aerith route and no CA is going to have low affection w Aerith. They aren't going to see the LA date nor LA dream date.
And I think that's basically how they're keeping CA fans from getting too upset by the CT stuff.
I think that's at least for the devs the advantage of the routes set up. They get to tell the story they want without upsetting any section of the fanbase.
I don't think this means anything is optional or you can choose your own ending or anything but I do think that's what purpose the different routes serve.
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I mentioned them before. But like I said I could be completely wrong.
Now with the viral kiss, probably more people will be on clotis side I imagine
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Deleted member 26496
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Cloud reactions to Aeriths advances and his interactions with her kind of discourages it doesn't it? At least thats my impression
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think the bigger issue here is (and I’m also certainly guilty of it to an extent) is that if you play the game with shipping goggles on then it does twist the way the story is presented. With shipping goggles on, both CT and CA scenes can be construed as “pushing the ship” when it isn’t necessarily so.
I think most non-shippers won’t frame the story that way and just go with what is presented. And trying to set bias aside, the way it’s presented does slant in Tifa’s favor.
I think most non-shippers won’t frame the story that way and just go with what is presented. And trying to set bias aside, the way it’s presented does slant in Tifa’s favor.
I understand.
I actually had the feeling that, by excluding any optional content, the game was trying to direct you in some way, let me explain:
After Kalm, we have the "date" with Aerith which seems more like "Aerith trying to get Cloud and Tifa to reconcile" than being a real date;
Then we have the event at Junon's tavern (ah, but is Cloud doing sit-ups optional or does it always happen?);
Gongaga;
Church scene that is crazy for me to try to romanticize.
LunarTarotGirl
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Not really to it's intended audience because he also has moments where he is basically giggling while taking pictures of her. Is agreeing on riding on a chocobo together, has a tiny smile before finding out the Skywheel is out of order and their date. Stuff like that. In JP his response isn't "I wish you wouldn't" it's "I'm bad at it dates" (and there are other JP lines CAs will honestly be happy with) and so CAs aren't seeing that as any offense. We can say it's friendship. But the intended audience for that will not see it that way and there isn't much stopping them in those sections in that particular route.
Now the story does encourage CT and ZA and nudges towards that in certain points as you go in the main story. Can't deny that. And I personally do believe CT and ZA are canon and it points to them as such.
However as a CA I will be say it.
It just doesn't upset CAs like people think it does. And really, they were never going to upset anyone. The devs very much set this up to tell the story THEY wanted with CT and ZA but not by alienating CA in the process.
They do give enough to keep us from rioting. That's why you see so many of those YouTubers gushing over certain parts. And I'm sorry they're not going to go and compare the other routes or plays or anything. Extremists are coping about the kiss of course but not everyone is extremist either. A lot of non extremists several I know are happy.
And I think it was just designed this way to not upset anyone.
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Sacky
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when you watch streamers who have chats that don't care about shipping or who have never heard of the game. Its very enlightening on how bad shipper goggles can really be XD
Sacky
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For part 3 i wonder if they will keep this design. It seems it will be hard because well ones kinda not exactly alive most likely. But also just from the story being in its endgame. Rebirth had the opportunity for all these fanservice stuff with characters like dates but plot wise part 3 i don't think thats possible. Since we get the lifestream and Highwind and what most of this game has been setting up a Zack and Aerith Reunion