SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

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I mean, they may bring it up to each other. I’m not sure why it would matter though.
Because of that Marlene scene. It seems strange to show visibly upset at this just for it to not get mentioned. We can assume that Zack thinks that Aerith likes Cloud romantically based on that scene and also him seeing Cloud and something along the links of "you were naughty weren't you" or something like that. I imagine he would want clarification or something because why else would Nojima include just to not be relevant or brought up again?
 

Sacky

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Because of that Marlene scene. It seems strange to show visibly upset at this just for it to not get mentioned. We can assume that Zack thinks that Aerith likes Cloud romantically based on that scene and also him seeing Cloud and something along the links of "you were naughty weren't you" or something like that. I imagine he would want clarification or something because why else would Nojima include just to not be relevant or brought up again?
they most likely will though who knows what the storyline between them will be XD could be a very interesting character moment between them
 

LNK

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Nate
Calling it a reflection of Real life is a bit of a strech I would say. Not just because of the alien parasite and all that but also because Cloud isn't himself around her. So their relationship is very unique and different than what happens real life
Alien parasite aside, their relationship with each other is a reflection of real life. They still have the same kind of emotions we have. Many people go through trauma and aren't in the right headspace. They also have feelings for multiple people, some more than others. Even people who haven't been through what Cloud has, have feelings for multiple people.
 

thetriplerhyme

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I don't think the Highwind scene should have one this time around, but i do want some kinda bond system nonetheless that let's us see another scene between the party members as Cait didn't really get quest focus here and neither did Cid and Vincent ofc.

I agree any affection system nor bond system should not matter now in HW scene ~ whatever affection level you have with Tifa or other characters Cloud's not being controlled now soo its regardless~
 

eleamaya

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"Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith. But her responsibility is too great I think."
I could see Nojima maybe feeling like Cloud would be better with Aerith and then changing his opinion later on. Because I think the wording of this quote is still very weird in any context and also over the years he has become a tiny bit more aggressive with showcasing cloti as the canon couple. So yeah he might have thought Cloud loves Aerith more and then changed his mind.

That quote from Nojima has nothing to do with her Cetra responsibility. Nojima was talking about a relationship. So when he said Aerith has a big burden/responsibility (負担), it means she's the one who often tries the relationship to work.

So what Nojima means in that interview wasー both CT and CA has their own problem in their relationship. CT has a problem with marriage/love/family premise such as communication. CA probably would have no such problem, but Aerith would be the one who "work hard" in the relationship. And we really see it on Rebirth, it's always Aerith who makes a lot of effort in the "date". I wonder this is what makes her realize that this is not what she wanted. Her and Zack is balance, just like Cloud & Tifa; relationship works because two persons make both effort.

We can assume that Zack thinks that Aerith likes Cloud romantically based on that scene and also him seeing Cloud and something along the links of "you were naughty weren't you" or something like that. I imagine he would want clarification or something because why else would Nojima include just to not be relevant or brought up again?
Zerith fandom actually has imagine that Zack would asks Aerith boldly when they reunite, "By the way, I heard you like Cloud."
 
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shady

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Now first of all i'm going to preface this and say no, this isn't about all CA streamers because there are some great CA streamers but just as with the CT side of the fandom there are a handful of CA's that are at the height of spreading vitriol and misinformation whilst proclaiming innocence.

The problem i've seen with some CA streamers, whilst it is not a problem they champion CA of course if that makes them happy then more power to them, the issue is that they seem to have a pretty big aversion to facts and champion a lot of head cannoning to their audience that even if you are a CA you should ignore because it's just straight up incorrect. You check out some FF7 streams and you get such comedy gold like how Cloud wanted to die in Advent Children to be with Aerith, or how at the end of FF7 OG Cloud told Tifa he wants to die to go meet Aerith in the Promised Land, or arguing with native Japanese people about the use of their own language and how it's applied -- amongst a litany of other debunked and nonsensical claims. Unfortunately their opinions have landed them in the crosshairs of toxic people who have criticised or harassed them online in unfair ways, regardless on if I agree with them or not that is not okay to do.

This is why I see multiple CA streamers that are vocal across social media and can also be very toxic and can encourage people on social media to attack or spread misinformation -- again not that they deserves any sort of personal attacks of harassment because it just really isn't that deep. I just wouldn't recommend some of them for factual FF7 storytelling at all, they are shouting the loudest on Social Media because they aren't letting the games, the characters or the narrative speak for itself.
 

Graymouse

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I agree any affection system nor bond system should not matter now in HW scene ~ whatever affection level you have with Tifa or other characters Cloud's not being controlled now soo its regardless~
Honestly, how would SE go by making the affection system in part 3? if the Devs continue with how the OG storyline goes the night before the final battle with Sephiroth, Tifa and Cloud will spend the night together. (you know I hate using this but...) This will be a non-optional scene that all will have to sit through whether you are a C/A or a C/T.
 

GamerSkull

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Honestly, how would SE go by making the affection system in part 3? if the Devs continue with how the OG storyline goes the night before the final battle with Sephiroth, Tifa and Cloud will spend the night together. (you know I hate using this but...) This will be a non-optional scene that all will have to sit through whether you are a C/A or a C/T.
Not to mention, I fully expect Cloud to be absent for a sizable portion. With Tifa and Cid being party leaders. Hard to do an affinity system if he’s absent for a good chunk of the game.
 

shady

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That quote from Nojima has nothing to do with her Cetra responsibility. Nojima was talking about a relationship. So when he said Aerith has a big burden/responsibility (負担), it means she's the one who often tries the relationship to work.

So what Nojima means in that interview wasー both CT and CA has their own problem in their relationship. CT has a problem with marriage/love/family premise such as communication. CA probably would have no such problem, but Aerith would be the one who "work hard" in the relationship. And we really see it on Rebirth, it's always Aerith who makes a lot of effort in the "date". I wonder this is what makes her realize that this is not what she wanted. Her and Zack is balance, just like Cloud & Tifa; relationship works because two persons make both effort.
Zack balances out Aerith's gremlin energy for sure and they both have a push and pull that works great for their tandem.

What's interesting to me (and I think people with eyes and ears who have played Rebirth) is showing what you just said here, how much effort Aerith has to put in to get even remotely anything out of Cloud. The Gondola date and Nibelheim being two examples, both times she pats the place next to her and Cloud is having none of it, on the Gondola date I actually felt a little bad because he has a face like a smacked ass half the time and barely looks at Aerith, it isn't until Aerith opens up a little does he start to engage, even then she basically has to latch onto his arm for anything and it's like come on Cloud -- yeah I'm a CT person but even i'm saying out loud give the girl something like she clearly needs a little comfort here at least -- and in the end he delivers. But there's many instances of this where Cloud really needs to be pushed to open up to Aerith at all, this continues on into the Sector 5 date and then in the Church where she's clearly opening up and, I supposed depending on HA or LA Cloud will engage a little or not engage much at all, even when she's saying she likes him, he just says she's acting weird. I couldn't believe it in Rebirth at times.

Contrast this with Tifa and even though he gets shy and awkward it's a hell of a lot more natural and comfortable? Or rather it progresses that way where they have a stereotypical "lovers tiff" from the start of the game up until the last couple of chapters where they had Aerith take over and Tifa's voice started to get drowned out by Sephiroth (as he said in Gongaga). But you can actually see realCloud come out a bit in Gongaga during their conversation where they nearly kiss. But let's also contrast the Gondola date where Tifa doesn't try to get him to sit next to her, he's stares at her like 3 times and seems like he wants to say something but can't get the words out, and when Tifa closes in on herself and seems unsure of what she is feeling is mutual, Cloud actively reassures her and initiates rather than having to be pushed into it.

What's interesting is you bringing up Nojima's quote about communication... well with the OG I think everyone would agree with that, but after Remake and Rebirth? You can actually see the developers making an active effort to get these two to actually communicate more through their issues and because of this what you got in Rebirth was "Romantic Tropes 101" development from start to finish, a much more fleshed out relationship building where they try to express their feelings to each other (not always necessarily romantic) and if P3 goes the way of Disc 2 in the OG it makes the relationship potentially a much richer one than it was in OG and makes much much more sense in terms of natural progression.

I'm reminded of what Nomura said about fleshing out Tifa herself and her relationship with Cloud in Rebirth so that we'd see their growing feelings over a natural course of the games and it's delivering in spades in Rebirth. Any OG players would not have even guessed we'd get the romantic drama, angst and tension they got in this game.. Tifa confronting him from the off? Cloud initiating a kiss? Insane.. and you figure they have to top this in Part 3, I don't see how it's possible for them to walk back all the domestic and human relationship building between Cloud and Tifa that they have done in Remake and Rebirth, the kiss seen round the world, people celebrating FF7's first kiss after 27 years. How do you walk this back in P3 now to make Cloud and Aerith canon? You'd have to to really rip up all the narrative structure and character building you've done in the first 2 games, you have to make Cloud somebody who would trample on Tifa's feelings and kiss multiple women, you'd have to unecessarily trample all over Tifa and her feelings. Hell you'd have brought back Zack to essentially watch as Aerith fawns all over Cloud? I just don't see how that is happening.
 

Ryushikaze

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Why would they be romantic in ACC when they're literally going through relationship hell? Even so, I'd say there is some romance there, they're vulnerable towards each other in the shilly shally scene, they lie together in the flowers, he saves her on the bike, and she smiles at him at the end.
It's not a lot no, but the whole point is that they're in a bad place.

Yeah, I'm also iffy on this, I could easily see the LTD hurting more than helping. What would really help is a good focused story.

Weirdly enough the one article I've seen put Tifas date second after Aeriths.

Well, I am also generally a stickler for the rules when it comes to these sorts of thing, owing to literally decades of trying to explain to people that "not accepting the claim that a god exists" is not the same as "claiming that a god exists.
Do you mean "claiming that a god doesn't exist" or are the people you're arguing with literally so stupid they take !X = X?

Still though, I will play devils advocate here and say that this really is about semantics. I don't think people are talking about a scientific approach where Cloti and Clerith are two different claims and that Cloti being true is the default position. Clearly it's not, anyone with an ounce of logical thought understands this. But it is completely fair to say that we're no long in the default position. Imagine a courtroom where someone has been found guilty and 10 years later someone is coming along claiming they're innocent. Now sure, from a purely scientific point of view when we're talking about an argument where we are once again trying to ascertain whether this person is innocent, both parties should start from the null hypothesis. And yet you can't just walk up to the judge and use that logic to demand a retrial, first you need to prove that something was improper about the original trial.

What people who says Clerith have the burden of proof is essentially that this trial has already been done. It's been discussed a thousand times, they're lost a thousand arguments, the consensus conclusion is that Cloti has won the trial. So now when they're essentially trying to say "No, everything we know is wrong and the proof of your eyes is wrong", they're simply saying "well, that's an extraordinary claim, show me the extraordinary evidence.
Another way to look at it is this, the reason the burden of proof lies on Cleriths....is because Clotis have already fulfilled theirs. The ball is in their court as it were.
Yes. Both sides must fulfill their burden of proof, but C/T puts in the work and fronts the evidence, shows the logical path- and it just gets easier and easier to do all the time- whereas a lot of "C/A is Endgame" types decidedly do not.

Reminds me of Hermione. Got way more screentime than any other woman, was by Harry's side more than any other woman, was in advertising and marketing more than any other woman, got more fanart than any other woman, and was by far the most popular female character in the Harry Potter series...but Harry still ended up with Ginny.
Still surprised not everyone saw that coming. Foreshadowing was as subtle as a bag of hammers even as far back as book 2.
 

thetriplerhyme

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So what Nojima means in that interview wasー both CT and CA has their own problem in their relationship. CT has a problem with marriage/love/family premise such as communication. CA probably would have no such problem, but Aerith would be the one who "work hard" in the relationship. And we really see it on Rebirth, it's always Aerith who makes a lot of effort in the "date". I wonder this is what makes her realize that this is not what she wanted. Her and Zack is balance, just like Cloud & Tifa; relationship works because two persons make both effort.

- i see i didnt see the full interview thanks @eleamaya yeaah cuz if anyone from C/A recognize there is no date of C/A that Cloud once initiated. Its always Aerith.. again devs are even more clear that Cloud has zeo interest in her at all.

Honestly, how would SE go by making the affection system in part 3? if the Devs continue with how the OG storyline goes the night before the final battle with Sephiroth, Tifa and Cloud will spend the night together. (you know I hate using this but...) This will be a non-optional scene that all will have to sit through whether you are a C/A or a C/T.


- I'm expecting it to be like 'resolution scene' not exactly on who would you choose to see on the HW scene but w/c ever affectionate rate cloud has it still same ( can't properly explain it but you know what i mean)
 

thetriplerhyme

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Zack balances out Aerith's gremlin energy for sure and they both have a push and pull that works great for their tandem.

- exactly! i mean crisis core is surely they're time together i think it was brianna who said it "Zack dedicated his life for Shinra and being Soldier. The principles he have this is because of how he looks up with Angeal and again because of Shinra / Soldier he is taken away from Aerith"

She is like his home and that church is like his 'healing paradize' hence why you can see on ending he's just stayin there...

I know just like how Zack and Aerith are together in ACC we're going to get a proper reunion for them in part 3


CA probably would have no such problem, but Aerith would be the one who "work hard" in the relationship.

- Let's try to see in an alternative world this happens I figured just like today Cloud will just 'agree' with an annoyance look and yes Aerith will have to mostly do everything. Again just like @insanehobbit on his post for them to work

Cloud will have to get over his feelings to Tifa since he is a child ( we should acknowledge by now he have feelings for her since they were kids )
Aerith will definitely to settle her 'Zack' issue once and for all and not the 'push and pull' thread she's trying to do in Rebirth

and honestly this is a random and longer work given the amount of romance they have given to each pair.

Soo nooo its never gonna work.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I'm expecting it to be like 'resolution scene' not exactly on who would you choose to see on the HW scene but w/c ever affectionate rate cloud has it still same ( can't properly explain it but you know what i mean)
I don’t understand at all what you mean no. The HW scene is important to the CT relationship and is only about them. There won’t be any other person there, they are soul searching their reason for fighting Sephiroth. Cloud and Tifa are each other’s reason to fight him.
 

Graymouse

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- i see i didnt see the full interview thanks @eleamaya yeaah cuz if anyone from C/A recognize there is no date of C/A that Cloud once initiated. Its always Aerith.. again devs are even more clear that Cloud has zeo interest in her at all.

The HA date sequence with Aerith at GS, this is so blatantly obvious. For example when they get on the skywheel, Aerith invites Cloud to set next to him. He rejects her completely and goes to sit on the otherside of the skywheel

Then the conversation shifts towards her boyfriend.

This last point:

When Aerith places her head on his shoulder, Cloud was obviously not comfortable with it. However, i guess he felt pity for her and allowed it to happen "just until the ride is over" the entire hand holding with interlocking fingers that C/A likes to bring up and say its love is at best a conosling jester because of course Cloud isnt a heartless SOB.

So, the case in point:

C/A likes to point out that the Kiss between C/T is a (petty rebound kiss) my goodness are they blind because if anything the hand holding that C/A did is calling the kettle black if I ever saw.

Also, you dont have to take my word for it:

 
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thetriplerhyme

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When Aerith places her head on his shoulder, Cloud was obviously not comfortable with it. However, i guess he felt pity for her and allowed it to happen "just until the ride is over" the entire hand holding with interlocking fingers that C/A likes to bring up and say its love is at best a conosling jester because of course Cloud isnt a heartless SOB.

- I feels horrible because it seems like she's begging for it ( She said it until' rides over ) even in 'last date' just pretend and go along with it?
 

thetriplerhyme

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The HW scene is important to the CT relationship and is only about them. There won’t be any other person there, they are soul searching their reason for fighting Sephiroth. Cloud and Tifa are each other’s reason to fight him.

  • how can i explain ( I'm not good with words sorry )
  • in OG i specifically dont like it when there's standard intimacy and high intimacy I'm hoping that will be remove.

Which ever infinity you with cloud have its gonna be the same scene ~ sort kinda like that ( sorry for double post btw)
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
  • how can i explain ( I'm not good with words sorry )
  • in OG i specifically dont like it when there's standard intimacy and high intimacy I'm hoping that will be remove.

Which ever infinity you with cloud have its gonna be the same scene ~ sort kinda like that ( sorry for double post btw)
Ah gotcha. Yeah I think there should be no low or high affection in that scene; CT's relationship has already changed and deepened a lot, and if my guess about a kiss in the LS scene is true (still on that lol) then it would make no sense for two different scenes there.

On other news, Tifa's mocap started liking a lot of CT tweets, so I think they're going back to work soon :) Reminder the mocap is the first thing they do after the script and we know they have already finished the first script.
 

Stiggie

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Ah gotcha. Yeah I think there should be no low or high affection in that scene; CT's relationship has already changed and deepened a lot, and if my guess about a kiss in the LS scene is true (still on that lol) then it would make no sense for two different scenes there.

On other news, Tifa's mocap started liking a lot of CT tweets, so I think they're going back to work soon :) Reminder the mocap is the first thing they do after the script and we know they have already finished the first script.
Yeah, I kinda think that there being a HA version of the highwind scene arguably hurt Cloti more than if the low affection one had been the only one.
I still consider the low affection version to be very romantic, but the very notion of there being a "bad" version has caused people to latch on to that as some sort of evidence.
 

Stiggie

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Stiggie
I have question and maybe some of you will answer or maybe not. Would you guys be ok with Cloud also having some romantic feelings for Aerith or not? Because personally I really don't like the Idea of that at all even tho he is not himself. I just feel like it would damage clotis relationship even tho he loves Tifa more. And also Tifa never realy wavered either so it sucks kinda sucks if Cloud does but maybe Im just to strict
I am ok with him having some romantic feelings for Aerith while in his fake persona, but I am not ok with that being made explicit unless it's used in contrast with Tifas. For instance, I know a fan-fiction that's set post ACC where Tifa, before allowing Cloud back into her life, forces herself to confront him about Aerith because she "won't be second choice". He responds that there was a time where he wanted both of them, and that he did have some feelings for Aerith but wasn't sure whether they were his or Zacks, but that regardless, they're nothing like what he feels for Tifa. That he loved her as a boy, that she was the one there for him in the lifestream and took care of him etc.
That I actually thought was pretty well done, it made Tifa very human with her insecurity, and it showed Cloud in a way that doesn't step on any feelings but still respected the special bond he and Tifa have.

Honestly, I think that it would be best if part 3 has 0 content when it comes to Aerith/Cloud romance. I feel like part 2 worked very well as an exploration and ending to that idea. Aerith closing that chapter of her "life" with her death and the dream date seems fitting. That also allows for Cloud to just continue with Tifa and have any potential feelings for Aerith exist as a hypothetical from part 2, never really confirmed nor denied. Which is also what I think it should be for Cloud, if he did have feelings I don't think they're significant enough for him to mull over them.

Do you mean "claiming that a god doesn't exist" or are the people you're arguing with literally so stupid they take !X = X?
I meant "claiming that a god doesn't exist" yeah. I was pretty drunk yesterday, I just reread that post and man it was a mess XD
 

Hellenic

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Not to mention, I fully expect Cloud to be absent for a sizable portion. With Tifa and Cid being party leaders. Hard to do an affinity system if he’s absent for a good chunk of the game.
Yeah i suppose considering the content of the next game, we probably don't have the luxury to really be questing with our characters. Still i do hope we get some optional content to build our bonds with the characters that didn't get much in Rebirth, unless they would just give that to us in mandatory scenes i guess.
 

thetriplerhyme

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I am ok with him having some romantic feelings for Aerith while in his fake persona, but I am not ok with that being made explicit unless it's used in contrast with Tifas.

I respect this ( i get what you mean :P:P ) for me its not alright and even if there is sort of 'feelings' there is not actually him its Zack's. The things he have with Zack's are memories, false persona can't comprehend that these exactly are not his memories but Zack's ( Aerith ex) and unknownly he express this through mimic actions. ( like Zack)

- Aerith responding to his mimicing actions although she knows its not Zack's I personally think still this is JENOVA. They needed to attract Aerith with his mimicing actions of his ex to distract her on her duties as last livin cetra.

But even in his 'false persona' because of Tifa there's still a true Cloud there and he's not exactly passive or emotion less. I think in Remake and Rebirth we're able to see this by now. He has ZERO interest in her~ Aerith is actually in par with Jessie and other ladies who likes to flirt with him. Its either he didnt understand or just care ( poor ladies :mon::mon:)

I actually thought that's gonna be the case ( up to the time he redeem himself in LS ) until Rebirth we now know that Cloud can act on his own TRUE feelings when it comes to Tifa. It was only her he's able to open up his worries about degradation, memories he's starting to have ( Zack's drowning although its false ), worried on how to tell this to Aerith.


Honestly, I think that it would be best if part 3 has 0 content when it comes to Aerith/Cloud romance. I feel like part 2 worked very well as an exploration and ending to that idea. Aerith closing that chapter of her "life" with her death and the dream date seems fitting.

oh I'm with you here I soley wanted this badly ( purely because I believe their reunion will now be in ACC) and plus yes Cloud needed to redeem himself first before anything else. Sephiroth needs to be defeated first and foremost and hence he needed to save first and thus this is Tifa's job now. PART 3 is soley gonna be them alone until the end to connect to Advent Children.

Aerith has given enough time to sort out her feelings and I believe she's not stupid to know Cloud and Tifa's feelings by now. So as a true friend I wanted them to have a 0 content AT ALL AS WELL.
 

Stiggie

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Stiggie
Creating bonds with the other characters serves to make Clouds mind breaking more tragic. They're like the halcyon days that you often see in stories that precede everything going dark. Where the memory of fun adventures together is what allows the group to get through the dark days.
I am not sure there really is a point in affection levels in general after Aeriths death because those halcyon days are gone now. It's like in FFIX with "you're not alone" Zidane helping everyone really culminates in that moment where everyone comes back to help him. But afterwards there isn't a lot of affection building, there is some of course but the narrative point in showing the members growing closer has already been reached.

I'd say that Rebirth really focuses a lot on that part of the story, someone here called it a holiday with friends and I think that's accurate. What we see in rebirth allows us to understand why they'd stay with Cloud despite what is going to happen. I think this game was building up favors that the next game will cash in. The most active relationship building will be with Tifa I'd guess.
 
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