SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Eerie

Fire and Blood
  • how can i explain ( I'm not good with words sorry )
  • in OG i specifically dont like it when there's standard intimacy and high intimacy I'm hoping that will be remove.

Which ever infinity you with cloud have its gonna be the same scene ~ sort kinda like that ( sorry for double post btw)
Ah gotcha. Yeah I think there should be no low or high affection in that scene; CT's relationship has already changed and deepened a lot, and if my guess about a kiss in the LS scene is true (still on that lol) then it would make no sense for two different scenes there.

On other news, Tifa's mocap started liking a lot of CT tweets, so I think they're going back to work soon :) Reminder the mocap is the first thing they do after the script and we know they have already finished the first script.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Ah gotcha. Yeah I think there should be no low or high affection in that scene; CT's relationship has already changed and deepened a lot, and if my guess about a kiss in the LS scene is true (still on that lol) then it would make no sense for two different scenes there.

On other news, Tifa's mocap started liking a lot of CT tweets, so I think they're going back to work soon :) Reminder the mocap is the first thing they do after the script and we know they have already finished the first script.
Yeah, I kinda think that there being a HA version of the highwind scene arguably hurt Cloti more than if the low affection one had been the only one.
I still consider the low affection version to be very romantic, but the very notion of there being a "bad" version has caused people to latch on to that as some sort of evidence.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I have question and maybe some of you will answer or maybe not. Would you guys be ok with Cloud also having some romantic feelings for Aerith or not? Because personally I really don't like the Idea of that at all even tho he is not himself. I just feel like it would damage clotis relationship even tho he loves Tifa more. And also Tifa never realy wavered either so it sucks kinda sucks if Cloud does but maybe Im just to strict
I am ok with him having some romantic feelings for Aerith while in his fake persona, but I am not ok with that being made explicit unless it's used in contrast with Tifas. For instance, I know a fan-fiction that's set post ACC where Tifa, before allowing Cloud back into her life, forces herself to confront him about Aerith because she "won't be second choice". He responds that there was a time where he wanted both of them, and that he did have some feelings for Aerith but wasn't sure whether they were his or Zacks, but that regardless, they're nothing like what he feels for Tifa. That he loved her as a boy, that she was the one there for him in the lifestream and took care of him etc.
That I actually thought was pretty well done, it made Tifa very human with her insecurity, and it showed Cloud in a way that doesn't step on any feelings but still respected the special bond he and Tifa have.

Honestly, I think that it would be best if part 3 has 0 content when it comes to Aerith/Cloud romance. I feel like part 2 worked very well as an exploration and ending to that idea. Aerith closing that chapter of her "life" with her death and the dream date seems fitting. That also allows for Cloud to just continue with Tifa and have any potential feelings for Aerith exist as a hypothetical from part 2, never really confirmed nor denied. Which is also what I think it should be for Cloud, if he did have feelings I don't think they're significant enough for him to mull over them.

Do you mean "claiming that a god doesn't exist" or are the people you're arguing with literally so stupid they take !X = X?
I meant "claiming that a god doesn't exist" yeah. I was pretty drunk yesterday, I just reread that post and man it was a mess XD
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
Not to mention, I fully expect Cloud to be absent for a sizable portion. With Tifa and Cid being party leaders. Hard to do an affinity system if he’s absent for a good chunk of the game.
Yeah i suppose considering the content of the next game, we probably don't have the luxury to really be questing with our characters. Still i do hope we get some optional content to build our bonds with the characters that didn't get much in Rebirth, unless they would just give that to us in mandatory scenes i guess.
 

thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
I am ok with him having some romantic feelings for Aerith while in his fake persona, but I am not ok with that being made explicit unless it's used in contrast with Tifas.

I respect this ( i get what you mean :P:P ) for me its not alright and even if there is sort of 'feelings' there is not actually him its Zack's. The things he have with Zack's are memories, false persona can't comprehend that these exactly are not his memories but Zack's ( Aerith ex) and unknownly he express this through mimic actions. ( like Zack)

- Aerith responding to his mimicing actions although she knows its not Zack's I personally think still this is JENOVA. They needed to attract Aerith with his mimicing actions of his ex to distract her on her duties as last livin cetra.

But even in his 'false persona' because of Tifa there's still a true Cloud there and he's not exactly passive or emotion less. I think in Remake and Rebirth we're able to see this by now. He has ZERO interest in her~ Aerith is actually in par with Jessie and other ladies who likes to flirt with him. Its either he didnt understand or just care ( poor ladies :mon::mon:)

I actually thought that's gonna be the case ( up to the time he redeem himself in LS ) until Rebirth we now know that Cloud can act on his own TRUE feelings when it comes to Tifa. It was only her he's able to open up his worries about degradation, memories he's starting to have ( Zack's drowning although its false ), worried on how to tell this to Aerith.


Honestly, I think that it would be best if part 3 has 0 content when it comes to Aerith/Cloud romance. I feel like part 2 worked very well as an exploration and ending to that idea. Aerith closing that chapter of her "life" with her death and the dream date seems fitting.

oh I'm with you here I soley wanted this badly ( purely because I believe their reunion will now be in ACC) and plus yes Cloud needed to redeem himself first before anything else. Sephiroth needs to be defeated first and foremost and hence he needed to save first and thus this is Tifa's job now. PART 3 is soley gonna be them alone until the end to connect to Advent Children.

Aerith has given enough time to sort out her feelings and I believe she's not stupid to know Cloud and Tifa's feelings by now. So as a true friend I wanted them to have a 0 content AT ALL AS WELL.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Creating bonds with the other characters serves to make Clouds mind breaking more tragic. They're like the halcyon days that you often see in stories that precede everything going dark. Where the memory of fun adventures together is what allows the group to get through the dark days.
I am not sure there really is a point in affection levels in general after Aeriths death because those halcyon days are gone now. It's like in FFIX with "you're not alone" Zidane helping everyone really culminates in that moment where everyone comes back to help him. But afterwards there isn't a lot of affection building, there is some of course but the narrative point in showing the members growing closer has already been reached.

I'd say that Rebirth really focuses a lot on that part of the story, someone here called it a holiday with friends and I think that's accurate. What we see in rebirth allows us to understand why they'd stay with Cloud despite what is going to happen. I think this game was building up favors that the next game will cash in. The most active relationship building will be with Tifa I'd guess.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
That quote from Nojima has nothing to do with her Cetra responsibility. Nojima was talking about a relationship. So when he said Aerith has a big burden/responsibility (負担), it means she's the one who often tries the relationship to work.

So what Nojima means in that interview wasー both CT and CA has their own problem in their relationship. CT has a problem with marriage/love/family premise such as communication. CA probably would have no such problem, but Aerith would be the one who "work hard" in the relationship. And we really see it on Rebirth, it's always Aerith who makes a lot of effort in the "date". I wonder this is what makes her realize that this is not what she wanted. Her and Zack is balance, just like Cloud & Tifa; relationship works because two persons make both effort.


Zerith fandom actually has imagine that Zack would asks Aerith boldly when they reunite, "By the way, I heard you like Cloud."
Hi eleamaya!

Can I ask where you got this information. Like is there an alternative translation somewhere? Or more information about it?

Because the way I read it it: The question asked to Nojima was basically Are COT and Case of Nanaki (I think) redemption stories?

and He answered about the assumption of Cloud and Tifa not going well in COT people would have and how people would think it's going that way despite Geostigma and Sephiroth. So to follow that context the burden on Aerith I figured would be her Cetra responsibility. Because he is talking about relationships and situations that the characters would be in causing issues between them.

I always thought it a bit weird to answer an interview question are OTWTAS redemption stories with talk about how he feels each girl would be in a relationship with Cloud in the first place. So I took it like an aside to address fans who misunderstood COT.

So my conclusion was the assumption is about the situation in CaseofTifa that the two have problems (Geostigma Sephiroth) regarding marriage/love/family. And how if Aerith was alive things might go okay but still the situation of her burden would be a problem.

But you're basically saying it's the burden on Aerith would be too great I think. Not in the situation but the relationship. Right?

That's interesting.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
nd He answered about the assumption of Cloud and Tifa not going well in COT people would have and how people would think it's going that way despite Geostigma and Sephiroth. So to follow that context the burden on Aerith I figured would be her Cetra responsibility. Because he is talking about relationships and situations that the characters would be in causing issues between them.
This is an article that talks about burden (負担) in a relationship. Got this from my friend too because my thought was like you when she told me this.

1711289787178.png1711289810311.png
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
This is an article that talks about burden (負担) in a relationship. Got this from my friend too because my thought was like you when she told me this.

View attachment 15127View attachment 15128
Interesting. So basically that's the word he used right 負担 the translation is saying there Well there are relationship problems whether it's Tifa or Aerith. With Tifa others assume there will be relationship problems even without Geostigma. With Aerith "things might go well but she still has a large burden on her in the relationship I think?" Because maybe Cloud's personality and the situation of the aftermath of defeating Sephiroth it doesn't mean things would be all sunshine and rainbows between them either. They would also have problems?

I guess that's what he meant?

I see. I think he might be saying it to address the assumption that COT is about relationship problems. By saying CA also would have different problems.

Though I wish we had the whole context of why he is saying all this because answering all this relationship talk to the question: "Would you say COT and Case of Nanaki redemption stories?" It does still feel a bit out of left field lol. Like the interviewer didn't even say anything lol
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
Interesting. So basically that's the word he used right 負担 the translation is saying there Well there are relationship problems whether it's Tifa or Aerith. With Tifa others assume there will be relationship problems even without Geostigma. With Aerith "things might go well but she still has a large burden on her in the relationship I think?" Because maybe Cloud's personality and the situation of the aftermath of defeating Sephiroth it doesn't mean things would be all sunshine and rainbows between them either. They would also have problems?

I guess that's what he meant?

I see. I think he might be saying it to address the assumption that COT is about relationship problems. By saying CA also would have different problems.

Though I wish we had the whole context of why he is saying all this because answering all this relationship talk to the question: "Would you say COT and Case of Nanaki redemption stories?" It does still feel a bit out of left field lol. Like the interviewer didn't even say anything lol
I think he meant "disagreements in personality" because if the dream date showed me something it's that they don't really mesh well together. Cloud is not only an introvert that can be taken out of his shell with an extrovert like Aerith, he also has PTSD and such so there are things he will never be opened up to. He also has a stronger sense of what he wants and does not want (he's more opened to the photographer idea I think because he loves photography) but at the end of the day they are not on the same wavelength which would place a great burden on Aerith to be always reaching out to him. This is why I say that the s5 dream date is Nojima's answer to this interview, because it shows taht even she has doubts after all.

Tifa doesn't have this problem because she too is an introvert and she shares the same trauma and PTSD, so she is able to give him gentle pushes towards the solution as she has the knowledge of how he is.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
I think he meant "disagreements in personality" because if the dream date showed me something it's that they don't really mesh well together. Cloud is not only an introvert that can be taken out of his shell with an extrovert like Aerith, he also has PTSD and such so there are things he will never be opened up to. He also has a stronger sense of what he wants and does not want (he's more opened to the photographer idea I think because he loves photography) but at the end of the day they are not on the same wavelength which would place a great burden on Aerith to be always reaching out to him. This is why I say that the s5 dream date is Nojima's answer to this interview, because it shows taht even she has doubts after all.

Tifa doesn't have this problem because she too is an introvert and she shares the same trauma and PTSD, so she is able to give him gentle pushes towards the solution as she has the knowledge of how he is.
Maybe but I'm trying to make sense with the question asked. "Are these redemption stories?"

I think in general the point is in both cases the common denominator is Cloud and he needs to forgive himself for his relationships to work out. But he also says in the same sentence by AC he has hope that C and T would get through this basically.
I think that's what he meant about bringing up relationships in the context of redemption.
 

tsukiyo

Lv. 1 Adventurer
Interesting. So basically that's the word he used right 負担 the translation is saying there Well there are relationship problems whether it's Tifa or Aerith. With Tifa others assume there will be relationship problems even without Geostigma. With Aerith "things might go well but she still has a large burden on her in the relationship I think?" Because maybe Cloud's personality and the situation of the aftermath of defeating Sephiroth it doesn't mean things would be all sunshine and rainbows between them either. They would also have problems?

I guess that's what he meant?

I see. I think he might be saying it to address the assumption that COT is about relationship problems. By saying CA also would have different problems.

Though I wish we had the whole context of why he is saying all this because answering all this relationship talk to the question: "Would you say COT and Case of Nanaki redemption stories?" It does still feel a bit out of left field lol. Like the interviewer didn't even say anything lol

Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
 

c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
I think we can identify Cloud's love for Tifa and Aerith this way:

"Romantic love is generally the feeling you would have toward a partner, they are usually characterized by a physical intimacy and romantic attraction that is not typically present in other types of love."

"Platonic love does not normally involve sexual feelings. However, there can still be plenty of ways to say I love you to a friend. Platonic relationships can still involve physical touch and affectionate love."


If we read these two definitions of love while also considering Cody's words, they indicate/could indicate what we actually saw in these two parts of the remake project.
 

Hix

Pro Adventurer
It's Purim today, I'm drunk, got lots on my mind and feeling like typing it out here so please indulge me.

So to start, I have to ask, why is Crisis Core Reunion a thing? Oh one can definitely say it's a cash grab, the original game was beloved and remains a massive nostalgia trap for many, myself included. The magic of playing a game that subverted every expectation and led you to believe you could actually change the ending you knew was coming anyway (see the Remake trilogy parallels?) was a moment that everyone deserves to experience, even if it's less impactful now as then.

The devs stated, at the time, Crisis Core Reunion would be key to understanding the events of the trilogy, but this can't be the answer either because it came out after Remake. Or can it? In fact, I posit that the plan was always to re-introduce Crisis Core ahead of Rebirth because it's key to understanding Aerith.

This is undoubtedly Aerith's time to shine. In OG it's the period of the game where her past is fully explained, her mission is elucidated, the attempts to chase her and ultimately stop her fail and she dies symbolically handing over the key to save the world. Rebirth is much the same along these lines - though one could certainly argue Remake and Rebirth have removed a lot of scenes from her and added a lot more to Tifa, nevertheless it's still Aerith's time to shine most of all. She has much to accomplish, and her role is pushed to make the loss hit even harder, the song she sings is as much to the viewer as to anyone.

But where does Crisis Core come into this? One line stands out to me from Aerith to Zack "I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Aerith's one wish is to spend more time with Zack. She could ask for anything here, but that's what she wanted and, indeed, that's what we're shown she's attempting to do in Remake and especially Rebirth. Zack isn't around, it's true, but wait, a guy falls into her life in exactly the same way, with the same eyes like the sky and the same sword to boot. In a world where reincarnation is common place and a desperately lonely girl has sat and waited some five years yearning every day, this is all too much a coincidence, all too great a chance not to be seized - to test the waters.

So she makes her wish a reality by spending time with Cloud, treating him exactly the same way she did with Zack and expecting similar responses, relating to him on a level that he's just about able to play along with - thanks to his own Jenova-jumbled personality and memories - but completely unable to reciprocate due to his deep personal feelings for Tifa. It's all an act, no less a play than Loveless, but without either party fully able to be themselves. Cloud completely wrapped up in his SOLDIER fantasy, indulged fully by the bodyguard status Aerith gives him, and Aerith so desperate to just have her Zack back that she's genuinely believing, to a degree, that he is in Cloud.

The devs wanted us to see that Aerith's heart yearns for Zack, that they never had any proper closure and indeed are broken up only physically, but not emotionally. They also wanted to provide this context so scenes like the Sector 5 Dream Date, a complete recreation of the very scene from Crisis Core - right down to the NPCs, who now instead of complimenting the couple are negative towards them - make narrative sense regardless of your affinity.

It also comes to redeem Aerith. Ignoring this context, as Clerith's would have us do, renders her little more than a floosy who casually thirsts for a man she just met but has been the target of the affections of her friend for over a decade. Further, how can one argue she's over Zack when all the evidence proves otherwise? The love letters, the pink dress to fulfil the promise (evidently, the promise to wait for each other was the last discourse they have) there's just too much evidence that speaks otherwise.

Anyway, I guess the point here is that if you find yourself ignoring some part of the compilation to make your ship work, then it's not actually working at all.
 

billy22

Pro Adventurer
Still surprised not everyone saw that coming. Foreshadowing was as subtle as a bag of hammers even as far back as book 2.

What was the foreshadowing in book 2? I mean yeah, I know Ginny had a crush on the guy, but it was very one-sided. Harry himself doesn't display romantic interest in her at all until book 6, when the story is practically over. I remember as a child reading the books and being blindsided by his sudden interest in her.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
What was the foreshadowing in book 2? I mean yeah, I know Ginny had a crush on the guy, but it was very one-sided. Harry himself doesn't display romantic interest in her at all until book 6, when the story is practically over. I remember as a child reading the books and being blindsided by his sudden interest in her.
I'd have to reread it to remember what set me off, but there were things in the description of her - come to think of it, even in the first book - that made it very obvious that she was going to be narratively important. And "best friend's little sister" is a fairly common young adult fiction romance trope? But more than that, again, it was very little in the way of how Harry thought about her and more about the way the narration kept treating her.
Keep in mind in this instance I am not arguing "there were signs Harry liked her from the start" but rather "the narration indicated this" in much the same way it indicated very strongly Ron and Herm would be an item long before they properly realized their feelings.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
Thank you! That answers everything and it makes a lot of sense. It gives much needed context. Because yeah I was so confused why is he talking about relationships when asked about redemption. So it's talking about healing and how this is a theme shown by the problems characters are working through. And effort brings the healing in AC.

Welcome to the forums!
 
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c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
It's Purim today, I'm drunk, got lots on my mind and feeling like typing it out here so please indulge me.

So to start, I have to ask, why is Crisis Core Reunion a thing? Oh one can definitely say it's a cash grab, the original game was beloved and remains a massive nostalgia trap for many, myself included. The magic of playing a game that subverted every expectation and led you to believe you could actually change the ending you knew was coming anyway (see the Remake trilogy parallels?) was a moment that everyone deserves to experience, even if it's less impactful now as then.

The devs stated, at the time, Crisis Core Reunion would be key to understanding the events of the trilogy, but this can't be the answer either because it came out after Remake. Or can it? In fact, I posit that the plan was always to re-introduce Crisis Core ahead of Rebirth because it's key to understanding Aerith.

This is undoubtedly Aerith's time to shine. In OG it's the period of the game where her past is fully explained, her mission is elucidated, the attempts to chase her and ultimately stop her fail and she dies symbolically handing over the key to save the world. Rebirth is much the same along these lines - though one could certainly argue Remake and Rebirth have removed a lot of scenes from her and added a lot more to Tifa, nevertheless it's still Aerith's time to shine most of all. She has much to accomplish, and her role is pushed to make the loss hit even harder, the song she sings is as much to the viewer as to anyone.

But where does Crisis Core come into this? One line stands out to me from Aerith to Zack "I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Aerith's one wish is to spend more time with Zack. She could ask for anything here, but that's what she wanted and, indeed, that's what we're shown she's attempting to do in Remake and especially Rebirth. Zack isn't around, it's true, but wait, a guy falls into her life in exactly the same way, with the same eyes like the sky and the same sword to boot. In a world where reincarnation is common place and a desperately lonely girl has sat and waited some five years yearning every day, this is all too much a coincidence, all too great a chance not to be seized - to test the waters.

So she makes her wish a reality by spending time with Cloud, treating him exactly the same way she did with Zack and expecting similar responses, relating to him on a level that he's just about able to play along with - thanks to his own Jenova-jumbled personality and memories - but completely unable to reciprocate due to his deep personal feelings for Tifa. It's all an act, no less a play than Loveless, but without either party fully able to be themselves. Cloud completely wrapped up in his SOLDIER fantasy, indulged fully by the bodyguard status Aerith gives him, and Aerith so desperate to just have her Zack back that she's genuinely believing, to a degree, that he is in Cloud.

The devs wanted us to see that Aerith's heart yearns for Zack, that they never had any proper closure and indeed are broken up only physically, but not emotionally. They also wanted to provide this context so scenes like the Sector 5 Dream Date, a complete recreation of the very scene from Crisis Core - right down to the NPCs, who now instead of complimenting the couple are negative towards them - make narrative sense regardless of your affinity.

It also comes to redeem Aerith. Ignoring this context, as Clerith's would have us do, renders her little more than a floosy who casually thirsts for a man she just met but has been the target of the affections of her friend for over a decade. Further, how can one argue she's over Zack when all the evidence proves otherwise? The love letters, the pink dress to fulfil the promise (evidently, the promise to wait for each other was the last discourse they have) there's just too much evidence that speaks otherwise.

Anyway, I guess the point here is that if you find yourself ignoring some part of the compilation to make your ship work, then it's not actually working at all.
If my analyzes become like yours, then I want to get drunk too :')

spectacular.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
Great post! Welcome to the forums and welcome to the thread of the be all end all of the LTD 😃
 
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Deleted member 26496

Guest
Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
So Nojima says that if Cloud ended up with Aerith that things would go well but that Aerith would have to do all the emotional work?
Or am I missing something?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
To be fair this is a what-if scenario that Nojima didn’t really even think about until questioned. We don’t know if Nojima would have said something different if he actually had time to think about it or if he even feels the same way about it now. It’s essentially an “on-the-spot answer”.
 
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Deleted member 26496

Guest
To be fair this is a what-if scenario that Nojima didn’t really even think about until questioned. We don’t know if Nojima would have said something different if he actually had time to think about it or if he even feels the same way about it now. It’s essentially an “on-the-spot answer”.
I wonder what makes people think that he hadn't thought of that question before. Since he wrote Aerith as the Red Hering romance love interest I would imagine he would know why they could or could not be in a loving relationship.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I wonder what makes people think that he hadn't thought of that question before. Since he wrote Aerith as the Red Hering romance love interest I would imagine he would know why they could or could not be in a loving relationship.
What I mean is that Nojima wrote it to be doomed from the beginning, what he feels the relationship could have been is essentially moot because it doesn’t end up happening. Because she dies. So maybe Aerith and Cloud could have had a good relationship, but… we’ll never know. So when he answers that question, it’s kinda more of a “Yeah, if it happened… this MIGHT be how it goes from my own perspective.” But key word: might.
 
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Deleted member 26496

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What I mean is that Nojima wrote it to be doomed from the beginning, what he feels the relationship could have been is essentially moot because it doesn’t end up happening. Because she dies. So maybe Aerith and Cloud could have had a good relationship, but… we’ll never know. So when he answers that question, it’s kinda more of a “Yeah, if it happened… this MIGHT be how it goes from my own perspective.” But key word: might.
Alright thank you, I think I get it now.
That being said, I still feel like the way he decided to say this is pretty strange. And also the fact that Square Enix have never referred to Cloud and Tifa as a couple is infuriating. If Clerith really is a loud minority then I don't know what's been holding them up from just celebrating them (cloti) as a couple, especially considering that its their most recognisable game.
 
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