SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
That quote from Nojima has nothing to do with her Cetra responsibility. Nojima was talking about a relationship. So when he said Aerith has a big burden/responsibility (負担), it means she's the one who often tries the relationship to work.

So what Nojima means in that interview wasー both CT and CA has their own problem in their relationship. CT has a problem with marriage/love/family premise such as communication. CA probably would have no such problem, but Aerith would be the one who "work hard" in the relationship. And we really see it on Rebirth, it's always Aerith who makes a lot of effort in the "date". I wonder this is what makes her realize that this is not what she wanted. Her and Zack is balance, just like Cloud & Tifa; relationship works because two persons make both effort.


Zerith fandom actually has imagine that Zack would asks Aerith boldly when they reunite, "By the way, I heard you like Cloud."
Hi eleamaya!

Can I ask where you got this information. Like is there an alternative translation somewhere? Or more information about it?

Because the way I read it it: The question asked to Nojima was basically Are COT and Case of Nanaki (I think) redemption stories?

and He answered about the assumption of Cloud and Tifa not going well in COT people would have and how people would think it's going that way despite Geostigma and Sephiroth. So to follow that context the burden on Aerith I figured would be her Cetra responsibility. Because he is talking about relationships and situations that the characters would be in causing issues between them.

I always thought it a bit weird to answer an interview question are OTWTAS redemption stories with talk about how he feels each girl would be in a relationship with Cloud in the first place. So I took it like an aside to address fans who misunderstood COT.

So my conclusion was the assumption is about the situation in CaseofTifa that the two have problems (Geostigma Sephiroth) regarding marriage/love/family. And how if Aerith was alive things might go okay but still the situation of her burden would be a problem.

But you're basically saying it's the burden on Aerith would be too great I think. Not in the situation but the relationship. Right?

That's interesting.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
nd He answered about the assumption of Cloud and Tifa not going well in COT people would have and how people would think it's going that way despite Geostigma and Sephiroth. So to follow that context the burden on Aerith I figured would be her Cetra responsibility. Because he is talking about relationships and situations that the characters would be in causing issues between them.
This is an article that talks about burden (負担) in a relationship. Got this from my friend too because my thought was like you when she told me this.

1711289787178.png1711289810311.png
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
This is an article that talks about burden (負担) in a relationship. Got this from my friend too because my thought was like you when she told me this.

View attachment 15127View attachment 15128
Interesting. So basically that's the word he used right 負担 the translation is saying there Well there are relationship problems whether it's Tifa or Aerith. With Tifa others assume there will be relationship problems even without Geostigma. With Aerith "things might go well but she still has a large burden on her in the relationship I think?" Because maybe Cloud's personality and the situation of the aftermath of defeating Sephiroth it doesn't mean things would be all sunshine and rainbows between them either. They would also have problems?

I guess that's what he meant?

I see. I think he might be saying it to address the assumption that COT is about relationship problems. By saying CA also would have different problems.

Though I wish we had the whole context of why he is saying all this because answering all this relationship talk to the question: "Would you say COT and Case of Nanaki redemption stories?" It does still feel a bit out of left field lol. Like the interviewer didn't even say anything lol
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
Interesting. So basically that's the word he used right 負担 the translation is saying there Well there are relationship problems whether it's Tifa or Aerith. With Tifa others assume there will be relationship problems even without Geostigma. With Aerith "things might go well but she still has a large burden on her in the relationship I think?" Because maybe Cloud's personality and the situation of the aftermath of defeating Sephiroth it doesn't mean things would be all sunshine and rainbows between them either. They would also have problems?

I guess that's what he meant?

I see. I think he might be saying it to address the assumption that COT is about relationship problems. By saying CA also would have different problems.

Though I wish we had the whole context of why he is saying all this because answering all this relationship talk to the question: "Would you say COT and Case of Nanaki redemption stories?" It does still feel a bit out of left field lol. Like the interviewer didn't even say anything lol
I think he meant "disagreements in personality" because if the dream date showed me something it's that they don't really mesh well together. Cloud is not only an introvert that can be taken out of his shell with an extrovert like Aerith, he also has PTSD and such so there are things he will never be opened up to. He also has a stronger sense of what he wants and does not want (he's more opened to the photographer idea I think because he loves photography) but at the end of the day they are not on the same wavelength which would place a great burden on Aerith to be always reaching out to him. This is why I say that the s5 dream date is Nojima's answer to this interview, because it shows taht even she has doubts after all.

Tifa doesn't have this problem because she too is an introvert and she shares the same trauma and PTSD, so she is able to give him gentle pushes towards the solution as she has the knowledge of how he is.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
I think he meant "disagreements in personality" because if the dream date showed me something it's that they don't really mesh well together. Cloud is not only an introvert that can be taken out of his shell with an extrovert like Aerith, he also has PTSD and such so there are things he will never be opened up to. He also has a stronger sense of what he wants and does not want (he's more opened to the photographer idea I think because he loves photography) but at the end of the day they are not on the same wavelength which would place a great burden on Aerith to be always reaching out to him. This is why I say that the s5 dream date is Nojima's answer to this interview, because it shows taht even she has doubts after all.

Tifa doesn't have this problem because she too is an introvert and she shares the same trauma and PTSD, so she is able to give him gentle pushes towards the solution as she has the knowledge of how he is.
Maybe but I'm trying to make sense with the question asked. "Are these redemption stories?"

I think in general the point is in both cases the common denominator is Cloud and he needs to forgive himself for his relationships to work out. But he also says in the same sentence by AC he has hope that C and T would get through this basically.
I think that's what he meant about bringing up relationships in the context of redemption.
 

tsukiyo

Lv. 1 Adventurer
Interesting. So basically that's the word he used right 負担 the translation is saying there Well there are relationship problems whether it's Tifa or Aerith. With Tifa others assume there will be relationship problems even without Geostigma. With Aerith "things might go well but she still has a large burden on her in the relationship I think?" Because maybe Cloud's personality and the situation of the aftermath of defeating Sephiroth it doesn't mean things would be all sunshine and rainbows between them either. They would also have problems?

I guess that's what he meant?

I see. I think he might be saying it to address the assumption that COT is about relationship problems. By saying CA also would have different problems.

Though I wish we had the whole context of why he is saying all this because answering all this relationship talk to the question: "Would you say COT and Case of Nanaki redemption stories?" It does still feel a bit out of left field lol. Like the interviewer didn't even say anything lol

Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
 

c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
I think we can identify Cloud's love for Tifa and Aerith this way:

"Romantic love is generally the feeling you would have toward a partner, they are usually characterized by a physical intimacy and romantic attraction that is not typically present in other types of love."

"Platonic love does not normally involve sexual feelings. However, there can still be plenty of ways to say I love you to a friend. Platonic relationships can still involve physical touch and affectionate love."


If we read these two definitions of love while also considering Cody's words, they indicate/could indicate what we actually saw in these two parts of the remake project.
 

Hix

Pro Adventurer
It's Purim today, I'm drunk, got lots on my mind and feeling like typing it out here so please indulge me.

So to start, I have to ask, why is Crisis Core Reunion a thing? Oh one can definitely say it's a cash grab, the original game was beloved and remains a massive nostalgia trap for many, myself included. The magic of playing a game that subverted every expectation and led you to believe you could actually change the ending you knew was coming anyway (see the Remake trilogy parallels?) was a moment that everyone deserves to experience, even if it's less impactful now as then.

The devs stated, at the time, Crisis Core Reunion would be key to understanding the events of the trilogy, but this can't be the answer either because it came out after Remake. Or can it? In fact, I posit that the plan was always to re-introduce Crisis Core ahead of Rebirth because it's key to understanding Aerith.

This is undoubtedly Aerith's time to shine. In OG it's the period of the game where her past is fully explained, her mission is elucidated, the attempts to chase her and ultimately stop her fail and she dies symbolically handing over the key to save the world. Rebirth is much the same along these lines - though one could certainly argue Remake and Rebirth have removed a lot of scenes from her and added a lot more to Tifa, nevertheless it's still Aerith's time to shine most of all. She has much to accomplish, and her role is pushed to make the loss hit even harder, the song she sings is as much to the viewer as to anyone.

But where does Crisis Core come into this? One line stands out to me from Aerith to Zack "I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Aerith's one wish is to spend more time with Zack. She could ask for anything here, but that's what she wanted and, indeed, that's what we're shown she's attempting to do in Remake and especially Rebirth. Zack isn't around, it's true, but wait, a guy falls into her life in exactly the same way, with the same eyes like the sky and the same sword to boot. In a world where reincarnation is common place and a desperately lonely girl has sat and waited some five years yearning every day, this is all too much a coincidence, all too great a chance not to be seized - to test the waters.

So she makes her wish a reality by spending time with Cloud, treating him exactly the same way she did with Zack and expecting similar responses, relating to him on a level that he's just about able to play along with - thanks to his own Jenova-jumbled personality and memories - but completely unable to reciprocate due to his deep personal feelings for Tifa. It's all an act, no less a play than Loveless, but without either party fully able to be themselves. Cloud completely wrapped up in his SOLDIER fantasy, indulged fully by the bodyguard status Aerith gives him, and Aerith so desperate to just have her Zack back that she's genuinely believing, to a degree, that he is in Cloud.

The devs wanted us to see that Aerith's heart yearns for Zack, that they never had any proper closure and indeed are broken up only physically, but not emotionally. They also wanted to provide this context so scenes like the Sector 5 Dream Date, a complete recreation of the very scene from Crisis Core - right down to the NPCs, who now instead of complimenting the couple are negative towards them - make narrative sense regardless of your affinity.

It also comes to redeem Aerith. Ignoring this context, as Clerith's would have us do, renders her little more than a floosy who casually thirsts for a man she just met but has been the target of the affections of her friend for over a decade. Further, how can one argue she's over Zack when all the evidence proves otherwise? The love letters, the pink dress to fulfil the promise (evidently, the promise to wait for each other was the last discourse they have) there's just too much evidence that speaks otherwise.

Anyway, I guess the point here is that if you find yourself ignoring some part of the compilation to make your ship work, then it's not actually working at all.
 

billy22

Pro Adventurer
Still surprised not everyone saw that coming. Foreshadowing was as subtle as a bag of hammers even as far back as book 2.

What was the foreshadowing in book 2? I mean yeah, I know Ginny had a crush on the guy, but it was very one-sided. Harry himself doesn't display romantic interest in her at all until book 6, when the story is practically over. I remember as a child reading the books and being blindsided by his sudden interest in her.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
What was the foreshadowing in book 2? I mean yeah, I know Ginny had a crush on the guy, but it was very one-sided. Harry himself doesn't display romantic interest in her at all until book 6, when the story is practically over. I remember as a child reading the books and being blindsided by his sudden interest in her.
I'd have to reread it to remember what set me off, but there were things in the description of her - come to think of it, even in the first book - that made it very obvious that she was going to be narratively important. And "best friend's little sister" is a fairly common young adult fiction romance trope? But more than that, again, it was very little in the way of how Harry thought about her and more about the way the narration kept treating her.
Keep in mind in this instance I am not arguing "there were signs Harry liked her from the start" but rather "the narration indicated this" in much the same way it indicated very strongly Ron and Herm would be an item long before they properly realized their feelings.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
Thank you! That answers everything and it makes a lot of sense. It gives much needed context. Because yeah I was so confused why is he talking about relationships when asked about redemption. So it's talking about healing and how this is a theme shown by the problems characters are working through. And effort brings the healing in AC.

Welcome to the forums!
 
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c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
It's Purim today, I'm drunk, got lots on my mind and feeling like typing it out here so please indulge me.

So to start, I have to ask, why is Crisis Core Reunion a thing? Oh one can definitely say it's a cash grab, the original game was beloved and remains a massive nostalgia trap for many, myself included. The magic of playing a game that subverted every expectation and led you to believe you could actually change the ending you knew was coming anyway (see the Remake trilogy parallels?) was a moment that everyone deserves to experience, even if it's less impactful now as then.

The devs stated, at the time, Crisis Core Reunion would be key to understanding the events of the trilogy, but this can't be the answer either because it came out after Remake. Or can it? In fact, I posit that the plan was always to re-introduce Crisis Core ahead of Rebirth because it's key to understanding Aerith.

This is undoubtedly Aerith's time to shine. In OG it's the period of the game where her past is fully explained, her mission is elucidated, the attempts to chase her and ultimately stop her fail and she dies symbolically handing over the key to save the world. Rebirth is much the same along these lines - though one could certainly argue Remake and Rebirth have removed a lot of scenes from her and added a lot more to Tifa, nevertheless it's still Aerith's time to shine most of all. She has much to accomplish, and her role is pushed to make the loss hit even harder, the song she sings is as much to the viewer as to anyone.

But where does Crisis Core come into this? One line stands out to me from Aerith to Zack "I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Aerith's one wish is to spend more time with Zack. She could ask for anything here, but that's what she wanted and, indeed, that's what we're shown she's attempting to do in Remake and especially Rebirth. Zack isn't around, it's true, but wait, a guy falls into her life in exactly the same way, with the same eyes like the sky and the same sword to boot. In a world where reincarnation is common place and a desperately lonely girl has sat and waited some five years yearning every day, this is all too much a coincidence, all too great a chance not to be seized - to test the waters.

So she makes her wish a reality by spending time with Cloud, treating him exactly the same way she did with Zack and expecting similar responses, relating to him on a level that he's just about able to play along with - thanks to his own Jenova-jumbled personality and memories - but completely unable to reciprocate due to his deep personal feelings for Tifa. It's all an act, no less a play than Loveless, but without either party fully able to be themselves. Cloud completely wrapped up in his SOLDIER fantasy, indulged fully by the bodyguard status Aerith gives him, and Aerith so desperate to just have her Zack back that she's genuinely believing, to a degree, that he is in Cloud.

The devs wanted us to see that Aerith's heart yearns for Zack, that they never had any proper closure and indeed are broken up only physically, but not emotionally. They also wanted to provide this context so scenes like the Sector 5 Dream Date, a complete recreation of the very scene from Crisis Core - right down to the NPCs, who now instead of complimenting the couple are negative towards them - make narrative sense regardless of your affinity.

It also comes to redeem Aerith. Ignoring this context, as Clerith's would have us do, renders her little more than a floosy who casually thirsts for a man she just met but has been the target of the affections of her friend for over a decade. Further, how can one argue she's over Zack when all the evidence proves otherwise? The love letters, the pink dress to fulfil the promise (evidently, the promise to wait for each other was the last discourse they have) there's just too much evidence that speaks otherwise.

Anyway, I guess the point here is that if you find yourself ignoring some part of the compilation to make your ship work, then it's not actually working at all.
If my analyzes become like yours, then I want to get drunk too :')

spectacular.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
Great post! Welcome to the forums and welcome to the thread of the be all end all of the LTD 😃
 
D

Deleted member 26496

Guest
Hello! I've been following this forum for the past... 2 months, I think? I didn't have an account so I just followed your discussion as a "guest" of sort. Idk if I'll be able to be much active here but I found the original interview on web archive and I believe the context of previously asked questions in the onterview might provide an answer to your questions. Just wanted to share my point of view after reading a bigger part of that text in Japanese. Not sure if anyone already spoke about it before. If so I apologize for repetitions.

The interviewer asks Nojima about his new novels and their contents in the context of them being a bridge between FF7 and AC. Nojima explains that when he started writing AC television had a lot of content that used "iyashi" word ("healing", "solace"). But he felt like a true healing and solace can be gained in a different way than the one presented on tv so he thought "Solace is something gained/won with blood and bearing one's scars". So if there's no effort, you can't be healed. Then he says that AC is a story of suffering which eventually reaches "iyashi" but since it focused on Tifa and Cloud he wanted to write about other characters as well and as a result the stories turned pretty dark.

Then he's asked about structure and order of those stories, Denzel's story (he says it's a sad story and he feels sorry for Denzel but there's nothing he can do lol). Because Nojima talked about Denzel's story, the interviewer asks about others - "What about Episode Tifa and Episode Barret? Tifa, Barret and Cloud as well, but it seems that the meaning of stories about atonement will be conveyed." And that's when Nojima says that Tifa's story was written at the premise of "it wouldn''t go well between Tifa and Cloud even if there's no geostigma or Sephiroth".

Imo Nojima meant it as: I don't agree that healing and solace is something easily gained and you need to work for it so I want to tell stories which are filled with pain and suffering and issues between the characters so in the end they can reach a healing point in their lives. Also I agree that 負担 mentioned in Aerith's case means she'd have to do all the emotional work in the relationship and that's why things would go well between her and Cloud - because she'd have to be working to maintain that state. Imo it doesn't involve her responsibilities as a Cetra especially since before he talks about Aerith he says "I'm not going to talk about my personal views on romance, marriage and family".
So Nojima says that if Cloud ended up with Aerith that things would go well but that Aerith would have to do all the emotional work?
Or am I missing something?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
To be fair this is a what-if scenario that Nojima didn’t really even think about until questioned. We don’t know if Nojima would have said something different if he actually had time to think about it or if he even feels the same way about it now. It’s essentially an “on-the-spot answer”.
 
D

Deleted member 26496

Guest
To be fair this is a what-if scenario that Nojima didn’t really even think about until questioned. We don’t know if Nojima would have said something different if he actually had time to think about it or if he even feels the same way about it now. It’s essentially an “on-the-spot answer”.
I wonder what makes people think that he hadn't thought of that question before. Since he wrote Aerith as the Red Hering romance love interest I would imagine he would know why they could or could not be in a loving relationship.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I wonder what makes people think that he hadn't thought of that question before. Since he wrote Aerith as the Red Hering romance love interest I would imagine he would know why they could or could not be in a loving relationship.
What I mean is that Nojima wrote it to be doomed from the beginning, what he feels the relationship could have been is essentially moot because it doesn’t end up happening. Because she dies. So maybe Aerith and Cloud could have had a good relationship, but… we’ll never know. So when he answers that question, it’s kinda more of a “Yeah, if it happened… this MIGHT be how it goes from my own perspective.” But key word: might.
 
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Deleted member 26496

Guest
What I mean is that Nojima wrote it to be doomed from the beginning, what he feels the relationship could have been is essentially moot because it doesn’t end up happening. Because she dies. So maybe Aerith and Cloud could have had a good relationship, but… we’ll never know. So when he answers that question, it’s kinda more of a “Yeah, if it happened… this MIGHT be how it goes from my own perspective.” But key word: might.
Alright thank you, I think I get it now.
That being said, I still feel like the way he decided to say this is pretty strange. And also the fact that Square Enix have never referred to Cloud and Tifa as a couple is infuriating. If Clerith really is a loud minority then I don't know what's been holding them up from just celebrating them (cloti) as a couple, especially considering that its their most recognisable game.
 

tsukiyo

Lv. 1 Adventurer
Thank you for the warm welcome! And yes, about the interview, Nojima talks about Aerith and Cloud as a what-if scenario. He uses words and grammar which can be translated as "might"/"probably" in English. He doesn't sound certain imo, more like speculating, wondering etc. But I can't say just from that part alone if he ever wondered about CA future in a serious manner. He doesn't say.

At the end of his response he remembers something he wanted to say/add and I noticed that after being asked some questions he's like "I don't remember but..." xD I haven't read the whole interview but the parts I saw feel like he's an eccentric who'll share what he wants to and the suddenly he'll remember something suddenly while talking lol. So it really feels like he didn't prepare his answers beforehand and some parts might be just his assumptions.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
If Clerith really is a loud minority then I don't know what's been holding them up from just celebrating them (cloti) as a couple, especially considering that its their most recognisable game.
But they have. The problem is people want them to be VERY explicit about it. That would go against the kind of relationship they were portraying
 
D

Deleted member 26496

Guest
But they have. The problem is people want them to be VERY explicit about it. That would go against the kind of relationship they were portraying
How tho. Like I don't think there has been a single post even where they referred to cloti as a couple or treat them as such. Nojima never referred to them as a couple either. Compare this to all the other couples from the final fantasy series. They always get treated as a couple in very obvious ways but with cloti its very different. If they did any of that I seriously doubt we would have an LTD at all. Instead we have a lot of ambigiuty and "playing both sides" with clerith getting a ton of moments that can be interpreted as romantic. Even in AC they have Tifa ask Cloud if he even loves her and he is asleep so he can't answer, leaving that scene unresolved for the entire movie. I know they had a very tough time together in AC but their relationship looked and seemed not very romantic at all. Yes it is dumb that people don't think they are a couple or anything at all after AC is strange but to be fair if you were to rewrite their relationship in AC as if they weren't actually together and Tifa was in love with him in a way that wasn't mutuall than the movie would most likely be exactly the same.

I know Im rambling but its so annoying that they never actualy get confirmed as a romantic couple by Square Enix or Nojima

And also Square Enix did celebrate Final Fantasy couples multiple times but Cloti was never among them which is strange considering its their biggest game
 

LNK

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AKA
Nate
How tho. Like I don't think there has been a single post even where they referred to cloti as a couple or treat them as such. Nojima never referred to them as a couple either. Compare this to all the other couples from the final fantasy series. They always get treated as a couple in very obvious ways but with cloti its very different. If they did any of that I seriously doubt we would have an LTD at all.
That's what I'm saying. Referring to them being in a couple would be explicit about it. That's not the way they wanted to portray the relationship. What they've done is drop hints for people to come to that logical conclusion though.

Instead we have a lot of ambigiuty and "playing both sides" with clerith getting a ton of moments that can be interpreted as romantic.
There was only ambiguity pre Aerith death in the OG. After that, it's full steam ahead on C/T ending up together but having a complicated relationship.

Even in AC they have Tifa ask Cloud if he even loves her and he is asleep so he can't answer, leaving that scene unresolved for the entire movie. I know they had a very tough time together in AC but their relationship looked and seemed not very romantic at all
It didn't seem romantic during that time because there was a lot going on that didn't allow for them to have romance. They were in a rough patch during that time. Post AC is when they are back to "normal."
 

thetriplerhyme

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thetriplerhyme
So Nojima says that if Cloud ended up with Aerith that things would go well but that Aerith would have to do all the emotional work?
Or am I missing something?

- just like how she's doing now she have initiate everything because Cloud never understood or never look at her pass a 'friendship' if she lives and lets say she got together with Cloud. She have to repeat this same scenario ( just like that last date).

She will be burden to Cloud's emotional trauma because she's exact opposite of him. Unlike Tifa who understand his pain because they have the same trauma and knows he needed time to figure things out. We know that opposite attracts but on that last date as we can see it not exactly 'attractive'

Just like @eleamaya CT and CA have mostly issues of their own but C/A mostly issues is they're just too different.
 
D

Deleted member 26496

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That's what I'm saying. Referring to them being in a couple would be explicit about it. That's not the way they wanted to portray the relationship. What they've done is drop hints for people to come to that logical conclusion though.


There was only ambiguity pre Aerith death in the OG. After that, it's full steam ahead on C/T ending up together but having a complicated relationship.


It didn't seem romantic during that time because there was a lot going on that didn't allow for them to have romance. They were in a rough patch during that time. Post AC is when they are back to "normal."
Ngl this feels like a cop out. Saying that they don't want to be explicit about is very strange considering they literally fuck and live together afterwards and Clouds love for Tifa seems to be the reason the whole Story even happens. Nothing about that is explicit at all.

I also disagree that there wasn't any ambiguity post Aeriths death. This Nojima Interview that we just discussed alone is very ambiguis as to if Cloud and Aerith would be better as a couple.

And regarding AC: you can write a couple in a loving relationship going through a tough time while still making it obvious that they are in fact a couple in a loving relationship but he didn't.


Edit: by the way Im not trying to debate you even if I come across this way. Im just frustrated and frankly annoyed at how this whole LTD is handled
 
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