GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Well, if anything, all of this discourse has made me realize that a huge swath of people block out everything that happens after Disc 1.
Also, I haven’t seen that statement either. Who said it?
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
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Also, I haven’t seen that statement either. Who said it?
LunarTarotGirl
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The debate exists because in 1997 the game was very barebones in the explaining things department. I love OG but it really glossed over quite a lot that now we are seeing in depth. Even what the Promised Land was and Sephiroth's history and goals was misinterpreted for years. Also the devs had us play as a character who we could choose dialogue for, giving many people the impression the character represented them and their preferences. And honestly looking back until the LS scene there is really nothing stopping this interpretation.
Also again if people paid special attention to one girl they weren't gonna see scenes with the other one.
And then they locked quite a lot behind optional scenes. Stuff like who Zack even was wasn't even in the original game and in the game it was in barely anyone was thinking to go to Shinra manor basement to unlock the secret cutscene. On top of this not just marketting but the game gave you a pink magical girl who pretty music plays for whenever you talk to her and made it seem like there could be something there before brutally killing her. People got attached and so this includes feeling like their own feelings should be reflected in Cloud.
In short OG was amazing but it wasn't very clear cut on many things. And over the years more information was added but can we agree in the most messy way possible? We had Last Order which wasn't even canon according to SE. We had Ultimania's not translated for years. CC was on a handheld a lot of people didn't have. AC has two versions which you needed to read novels for that weren't translated till years later either..... In general there was so much room for confusion and misunderstandings to spread. Also lots of time for it to spread. But I think in general the devs are definitely trying with ReTrilogy. It's just people who made up their minds did so a long time ago.
But for the new fans and casual players I think in general the devs have made it clear to newcomers what their intention is.
I understand the frustration of course but very few people are arguing than we think.
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thetriplerhyme
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btw sharin this look~ I would have loved to see this scene in Rebirth though ~ any Aerti fans there?
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think they’d argue he’s talking about the OG only.
But yeah, I think if Aerith comes back it’s only gonna be in the same capacity as Zack. Small interludes. And I don’t think she’s gonna interact with the main party much.
He specifically mentions "this title" in an interview about rebirth, and that she won't return just like in the OG. We didn't know who the person dying was gonna be per se, but we do now.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Bro I wanted more ! Aerti is a blessing. Give me Jedi Force Ghost Aerith helping her girlfriend in part 3 when shit goes hard.
LunarTarotGirl
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Also while I didn't for one second believe Aerith was going to survive Rebirth. I can't tell anyone with a straight face that the devs didn't 100% think people would jump to the conclusion she would survive and used that as part of the mystery for Rebirth. Which was something I honestly hated.
Because again we are technically super fans. I can quote to you what line is on what Ultimania page or the date of X interview for example. To an extentmost people in the LTD are well informed. But any casual or new players aren't going to know about interviews or novels and so the chance is high that if they hear theories saying stuff like Aerith will survive this time and Cloud's gonna save her or etc they'll believe it.
And I don't really blame them for that. It's just the way information about this franchise is not really equally accessed. It's a lot of information and in different media. Mostly people just see trailers and commercials.
And this happened a lot over the last 27 years in different ways. In general though I think Rebirth is slowly fixing this problem. But not 100% yet honestly.
Because again we are technically super fans. I can quote to you what line is on what Ultimania page or the date of X interview for example. To an extentmost people in the LTD are well informed. But any casual or new players aren't going to know about interviews or novels and so the chance is high that if they hear theories saying stuff like Aerith will survive this time and Cloud's gonna save her or etc they'll believe it.
And I don't really blame them for that. It's just the way information about this franchise is not really equally accessed. It's a lot of information and in different media. Mostly people just see trailers and commercials.
And this happened a lot over the last 27 years in different ways. In general though I think Rebirth is slowly fixing this problem. But not 100% yet honestly.
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GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I still think they’d argue it’s more about the OG. Because the wording seems off. (To me as well)
Hope springs eternal.
They’d want to hold on to hope regardless of any supporting evidence. Which is… as we know, something some of them do with the LTD in general.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Worst marketing period of this franchise. I hated it so much. It was already gross doing it. But it was even worse riding this wave like hell in every fucking itw.
I would like to think rebirth is fixing it, but while I find that some characters interactions are made super explicit, I.e. Cloud and tifa kissing. This is also the most vague and convoluted ffvii has ever been. Couldn't get much clearer in the og than "aerith is dead, rip". But now we have weird multiple timelines or lifestream universes and zack fighting alongside Cloud and plane jumping and aerith singing nonsensical love songs.
Don't know if you can really call that clearing up confusion, so far at least. If I had to grade ffvii rebirth on how wel it tells the story of the og I'd give it a 0. It does good stuff with characterizations, mechanics, and world building. But man.
thetriplerhyme
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- I honestly wanna say the same thing but when intergrade was released I deferred ( dont hate me hahaha) cuz Zack survive there!!! at least I though he did soo I wanna have a good ending or should I say 'alive' for #Zerith
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
All I want with all this timelines "shit" is just that Aerith know Zack loved her. Always have. She was his only one. And he tried everything he could to come back to her. Just let them talk.
the more I think about this game, the more I absolutely cant stand some of the decisions. It's such a convoluted mess which has ruined and made half the original scenes and themes worse because of it.
But then also on the other hand made Cloud and Tifas relationship feel and grow so much nicer at the stage of the game we are in rn
but idk if the upside of that is equal to the amount of pure nauseating nonsense in the game. The tone deafness of certain moments....palmer im looking at you....
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LunarTarotGirl
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Oh I 100% agree that the execution is weird.
I also have talked about before how this game 100% does let them have their cake and eat it too thing where they let CAs get their moments in our own little route where most will obviously going to pick Aerith and nothing is stopping us as seeing it as romantic should we choose to. So I can't blame the newer fans either in that department honestly.
And I hate it lol. Because yes I'm CA but I know they aren't gonna make good on what they're teasing me with. I know Aerith is staying dead no matter how much they make it a mystery and I know they're setting up Zack and Aerith reunion and CT Lifestream scene.
As much as it might sound like it to say, I'm not speaking "against" CA because I wouldn't want to see it sail. I'm just saying exactly as I see it coming.
They gave us stuff to keep us happy but I would rather not be lead on to be let down later personally. And I don't like how it's still fueling the debate.
Also the marketting...
That is why I said not yet. But what I think they're doing better is putting all the information even as crazy as the narrative looks in one place in Rebirth so people will understand the narrative easier than OG. People don't really need to read the interviews or Traces Of Two Pasts because Rebirth straight up addresses them.
The love song is literally just her monologue which is another super important thing they included in a museum exhibit of all things. Because it literally summarizes her POV and feelings. Why this is not more visible Frustrates me. So I'm actually glad it's there. Promises to Keep "we won't ever need" that line is based on the promise Zack made her I think, the last conversation they had. She won't need a promise to meet again with Cloud (and in meta the party, the player as her farewell) because she hopes to actually meet him again. So there doesn't need to be any promise just that hope it will absolutely happen.. It's also dialogue in Loveless the play. And it sounds like her knock out line in battle "We'll meet again, I know it." Basically.
But I don't think it fixes everything of course, and not yet because... yes it's also very convoluted. The execution is not the best at certain parts and terrible in others.
Like I still don't understand certain parts but I hope we actually get a translated Ultimania that does explain things this time!
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Nah, Tifa totally is in love with Cloud from the start. She's an absolute sweetheart, but she doesn't choose to watch over a mind wrecked Cloud because he's just a friend
We just don't know Cloud's feelings til the end (although the player can flirt all they want with her up til the date)
LunarTarotGirl
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Yeah but what I mean that the extent of the relationship how deep it goes is supposed to be a secret and plot reveal. The story starts off as these two are childhood friends. We can see Tifa has interest in Cloud by Mideel, of course. But the extent of these feelings etc. That's part of a reveal down the line. And a very powerful one when we do get to it.
But what I mean is you are supposed to realize that as you play over time. The story doesn't just give you all that information from the jump. We figure it out.
So to be clearer I was pointing out that we aren't told the nature to the interest when we meet Tifa. We get hints like oh this girl likes Cloud. And it's over the course of the game that we piece together what that means. And that's all part of a very important plot reveal that is kept secret till later.
(Also this is only really me talking about OG and the set up of dynamics from a literary perspective. I'm not saying oh in OG we don't see Tifa loves Cloud till the LS. Of course we do. But the way the dynamic is set up as something we need to slowly figure out and it's not in the forefront in a way it's even hidden for a bit.
Rebirth it's more obvious and set up as a slown burn that we see pretty early considering this is technically still Disk 1)
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LNK
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Final Fantasy has been doing that since at least 6 though
LunarTarotGirl
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Honestly I don't blame you. They really set up this hope for fans and I'm not against Zerith at all. So if they do go that route I really don't think I would be mad.
What made me angry is I saw it as they were giving hope for something that they probably would never fullfill. (And based on Rebirth so far still looks like Aerith is staying dead. And Zack.)
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LNK
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See I think it's still the same Aerith, it's just she is preparing for her visit to the upper room.
LNK
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There's people who are still convinced the trilogy is a sequel, so I wouldn't be surprised if people ignored that statement. Or just downright don't believe anything the devs say
Ryushikaze
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This may fall squarely into the realm and level of pedantry upon which I have built my empire, but I must disagree with the love square. That implies there is some sort of connection between all the points. We are dealing with a love U or even a love N or Z.
To borrow from the image of the linked video, an example of a full love square would be Archie's situation once you include Reggie Mantle, or the strange situation involving Josie (Jones or McCoy), Alan M, and the Cabot twins.
Or Ladybug and Cat Noir and their civilian identities.
Nope. All you need is three people, interest, and a teeny amount of uncertainty.
In almost every case, no, because love triangles are useful descriptors for narratives rather than real life, but also because there's a missing narrative element.
To use a weird example- There exists for a brief moment in Les Mis a love triangle. It only exists from the time between when Marius learns that Cosette exists and the two become a couple. During this entire period Eponine is crushing on him - without him realizing - and it's her interest in him during the period where he's newly interested in Cosette but before the two become an item that makes the 'triangle' state happen.
Am I making sense?
Nah, it does have a Triangle. It's of the A -> C <-> T type as Aerith has interest but no chance, but that is technically a triangle because Cloud and Tifa are interested in each other but not aware of each's interest.
More like two overlapping triangles, IMO.
Also you forgot one of my favorite triangles A likes B, B likes C, but C likes A.
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
Les Miserables = Eponine --> Marius <--> Cosette
FFVII = Aerith --> Cloud <--> Tifa
Aerith should ask a goodbye kiss like Eponine here when dying
(if I'm not wrong remembering, Eponine ask that and Marius give her)
Oh and I bet the musical movie played by Hugh Jackman is one of Nomura's favorites.
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thetriplerhyme
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Friend this will seal the necromancer love by C/A don't give them ideas ~ i beg you its disgusting already HAHAHHAHAA
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
Eponine doesn't have Z-factor, maybe that's the difference.Friend this will seal the necromancer love by C/A don't give them ideas ~ i beg you its disgusting already HAHAHHAHAA
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