SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

"The writer is lying to us" and "That's just his interpretation" are the best cope responses I've heard about the Nojima-song.

Really though, I never cared about the vague song or what it meant or was supposed to mean. The only thing that bothered me was some shippers latched onto it like it was supposed to be convincing evidence or something. I suppose I am at least thankful that Nojima's comment nullifies it being brought up in discussion...nvm, that's just his interpretation.

Gotta say, if it’s a love song to Cloud… then why does the Avalanche trio show up at the end?

They actually support the idea that it’s a general sentiment of seeing loved ones again.

 

[CldS7]

Mideal is gonna wreck me damn

 

[GamerSkull]

Mideal is gonna wreck me damn

Especially Tifa taking care of Vegetable Cloud.

 

[CldS7]

Especially Tifa taking care of Vegetable Cloud.

When she says nothing matters but Cloud with actual voice acting

And her head on him whilst he’s a vegetable in the wheelchair

That bit always get my eyes misty

 

[GamerSkull]

When she says nothing matters but Cloud with actual voice acting

And her head on him whilst he’s a vegetable in the wheelchair

That bit always get my eyes misty

And the nurse’s comments too.

By the way, the scenes at the Northern Cave are gonna hit hard. Especially the one where Tifa finds Cloud at the train station.

Actually, one thing I am curious about is whether Mideel will be bigger or if they’ll keep to being just like five buildings.

 

[CldS7]

And the nurse’s comments too.

By the way, the scenes at the Northern Cave are gonna hit hard. Especially the one where Tifa finds Cloud at the train station.

Actually, one thing I am curious about is whether Mideel will be bigger or if they’ll keep to being just like five buildings.

That reveal is one that always gets me still

Cause it’s so completely different from the start of the game. When I first played it was like oh Shittt, its going way deeper then I ever thought

Cloud saying Tifas opinion is the only one that matters then his resolve shattering and then him saying to Tifa he’s hopes she can meet the real cloud someday….

Honestly disk 2 is so fucking good

 

[GamerSkull]

That reveal is one that always gets me still

Cause it’s so completely different from the start of the game. When I first played it was like oh Shittt, its going way deeper then I ever thought

Cloud saying Tifas opinion is the only one that matters then his resolve shattering and then him saying to Tifa he’s hopes she can meet the real cloud someday….

Honestly disk 2 is so fucking good

Yeah, and I’m interested to see the Gaslighting King fully voiced in that scene too.

 

[null]

Whatever the statement was that the devs made, I think they just meant all the characters would get similar amounts of screentime. I think affinity or whatever is separate from that.

Plus, every character did get a dungeon but I don’t think you could ever change affinity in any of those. Affinity came from synergy, side quests, and dialogue which are all done by Cloud.

So Aerith’s dungeon being after the date doesn’t really matter since none of the party member dungeons affected the date either.

The interviews I saw called out Aerith and Tifa specifically. There's probably more out there, so this isn't the end-all by any means.

Kitase (Remake):

“[W]e have been very conscious about the player’s amount of time with Tifa and Aerith and keeping it equal,” he stated earlier this week. “Additionally, we would make sure their representation in-game is balanced as well; for example, if there is a special event scene for Tifa, then we would prepare something similar for Aerith as well.”

Hamaguchi (Rebirth):

NH: So one thing that I was really careful about in this game is to depict the same amount of character development for Aerith and Tifa. I felt that depicting one side more would sort of lead to many users’ unhappiness and obviously Rebirth sort of depicts Aerith’s fate, and that’s a heavy part.

@LNK so yeah, screen time isn't necessarily the right term.

I don't like Aerith and Tifa being specifically measured against each other. Normal fans don't notice this sort of thing. The ones who notice and get unhappy if the "other girl" gets more attention need to be ignored, not placated. By all means explore and develop the characters, just don't insert some artificial requirement to balance those two specifically.

@Stiggie thanks, you nailed it perfectly.

 

[LNK]

Tbh I kinda just expected the way his parts to be structured would be different. I think the interludes work well

But was expecting like 1-2 longer devoted chapters instead

And that's fair. I also thought the interludes would be a bit more spread out. I wouldn't say you were baited though.

 

[CldS7]

And that's fair. I also thought the interludes would be a bit more spread out. I wouldn't say you were baited though.

I meant I was baited by myself more than anything into how the Zack stuff could happen

 

[tenabrus]

I say watch out for them talking about Aerith the way they did Zack in Rebirth, with stuff like "Aerith is very important in this game", "Aerith is at the heart of the story", "Aerith's role is very special, we hope fans will understand our heartfelt sincerity in telling her story", that sort of dance around the topic that makes it seem like she could plausibly be in it way more than she is.

Personally I was hoping for some more parallel world stuff with Zack in Rebirth, and I still hope there's still some with Zack and Aerith, now that they've more or less undercut the tragedy of her loss. OG was poignant in the total void she left, but that ship has sailed.

 

[Dashell]

I'm confused. Wasn't the game super insanely Clerith and didn't it make Clerith canon? Why are they all upset about the song? lol

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Most people consider it a horrible love story because Romeo was fickle. Before he meets Juliet, he was fawning over another girl but forgets all about her when he meets Juliet. And Juliet is naive, believing that Romeo only has eyes for her when in reality he's just a teenage boy with wandering eyes.

Plus Juliet kills herself upon knowing Romeo died because of her. When Romeo literrally did the same thing ( drank the poison) thinking she died. Sorry I'm not a fan of tragic stories ( especially R&J) but hey I like Zerith too but probably because Zack is different.

Then, they become so embroiled in a toxic mess that leads to their (unnecessary) deaths.

- I think that's exactly point of Shakespeare though if they're both frickle and they 'died' unnecessary - Still.. I dont like it..

 

[Someonesbunny]

It's probably because the song held the whole thesis together. They were probably putting all their eggs in the "IT'S A THEMATIC LOVE SONG" basket, believing that a solid confirmation that it was a CA [only] song guaranteed the outcome they're preaching, but now that that's shot, word has it that some of them are on a wiki editing spree.

If this isn't a cautionary tale about making sure to hedge your bets, I don't know what is.

Anyway, regardless, I thought it was a good thing that the song actually revolved around her feeling the weight of being the last Cetra since that was supposed to be at the forefront in any case, and it should dull some of the criticism people had about perceiving Aerith's attempted advances with Cloud as entirely inappropriate given the situation with Tifa.

Also, I saw some of the posts reading back about Claudia and the infamous "older girl" line and I think that it doesn't actually have any bearing what she thinks (though she seemed to already approve of Tifa in ToTP, but that's besides the point). Not saying Cloud doesn't love his mom or care about what she thinks lol all I'm saying is that it is, again, a discussion that offloads choice from Cloud (who does end up making all his own choices, fully and consciously).

Then again, how could I forget the infamous exchange in Cloud's Aerith's Resolution:

Aerith: Don't fall in love with me.
Cloud: Doesn't my mom get a say in this?

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I never liked this narrative of Aerith world falling apart and hyper focusing on Cloud.

- Same i think her 'too much' focus on Cloud literally diverts her to see the world properly. Although her 'focus on Cloud" for me is a diversion of her inner feelings of missing Zack. For me this is still Jenova toying with feelings of the last cetra. still not my cup of tea..

Actually, I invented the ship on Feb 29 lmao, it's really just a joke

I know it was you~ but damned many ships with Elmyra a bit someone called it a cougar though I like the fun ( for laughs) part but the cougar part disgust me

the marketing was stupid for sure. Its kinda weird they focused the resolution scene in Remake about 'dont fall in love with me' but its not really referenced at all and they did a complete bait and switch with the Game Awards trailer as well.

From what I hear, and this could actually be untrue. They weren’t sure if they were gonna be greenlit to go past Part 1. So they included stuff in it that could be a way to “end” it with Part 1 by giving both shippers things and saying the Unknown Journey will continue. That way, if there wasn’t a Part 2 most of the fans would have “gotten their fix”, I guess.

Nope for me its the same with how is everyone baited with the "C/A kiss" turns out to be Cloti.. this is just another way of their marketting to see the story only for them to break it up into the players.

People are aware of the story now soo its not like before in 97' that marketting matters so much with canonicity ~ They still need to play the game. Only by playing the game people will nee Cloud's inner conflict and that's why Tifa reveal is also different back in Remake right?

its to highlight that we have inner heroine and outer heroine

 

[thetriplerhyme]

She is implying that Aerith has feelings for Cloud right?

It was in Junon if I remember it right ( same with traces if two past) when Tifa ask "Ever see that guy again" and this is her reply



Tifa knew how Aerith doesnt have any news on Zack. We may or may not know if she told Tifa he died ( not sure on that part ) but Tifa knew Aerith is desperately lonely and looking for Zack all these time.. she just dont know what do and whom to ask on on happened. Its complicated with still having feeligs but wanting to let go.. as confusing as Aerith might have take it.
-------

This is also one of the reasons why Tifa prevent's Cloud on telling he remembers Zack. She knows it was a false memory.. imagine telling that to Aerith and aggrating his (Cloud) situation more.

So instead she just told him ( Cloud says he remembers Zack that they were friends 5 years ago) w/o the details of drowning. Tifa only knew drowning was false but not sure if Cloud's memory on knowing Zack hence she told it to her ( Aerith ).

 

[liuliuliu]

It was in Junon if I remember it right ( same with traces if two past) when Tifa ask "Ever see that guy again" and this is her reply

View attachment 15297

Tifa knew how Aerith doesnt have any news on Zack. We may or may not know if she told Tifa he died ( not sure on that part ) but Tifa knew Aerith is desperately lonely and looking for Zack all these time.. she just dont know what do and whom to ask on on happened. Its complicated with still having feeligs but wanting to let go.. as confusing as Aerith might have take it.
-------

This is also one of the reasons why Tifa prevent's Cloud on telling he remembers Zack. She knows it was a false memory.. imagine telling that to Aerith and aggrating his (Cloud) situation more.

So instead she just told him ( Cloud says he remembers Zack that they were friends 5 years ago) w/o the details of drowning. Tifa only knew drowning was false but not sure if Cloud's memory on knowing Zack hence she told it to her ( Aerith ).

I think this line is talking about Faz the creepy guy that loved her mom and tried to rape her

 

[Yoru]

It was in Junon if I remember it right ( same with traces if two past) when Tifa ask "Ever see that guy again" and this is her reply

View attachment 15297

Tifa knew how Aerith doesnt have any news on Zack. We may or may not know if she told Tifa he died ( not sure on that part ) but Tifa knew Aerith is desperately lonely and looking for Zack all these time.. she just dont know what do and whom to ask on on happened. Its complicated with still having feeligs but wanting to let go.. as confusing as Aerith might have take it.
-------

This is also one of the reasons why Tifa prevent's Cloud on telling he remembers Zack. She knows it was a false memory.. imagine telling that to Aerith and aggrating his (Cloud) situation more.

So instead she just told him ( Cloud says he remembers Zack that they were friends 5 years ago) w/o the details of drowning. Tifa only knew drowning was false but not sure if Cloud's memory on knowing Zack hence she told it to her ( Aerith ).

I still think "our normal" Aerith doesn't know Zack is dead. Of course she's not dumb and knows something is wrong, but again, she still hopes he's fine. That's why she's searching news in Gongaga.

And I'm pretty sure Tifa told her everything. How Cloud remember he was friend with Zack and how his memory is still fuzzy because she was there and she knows from her POV that Zack never felt from the river and he made it to the reactor. I would even think she told Aerith EVERYTHING. The girl are on full support mode. That's why Tifa is so miserable at the end. She lost her friend, her confident, her support.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

They’ll falsely assume that it’s the same degradation that Angeal and Genesis went through and that is why Cloud’s story isn’t lining up with Zack’s in that game.

- this is a good explantion on degradation part -- I didnt do my homework although I played crisis core I just understood that G cells degrade but never understood fully on why Zack's never degrade

I think this line is talking about Faz the creepy guy that loved her mom and tried to rape her

- sorry didnt read her TOTP yet ( dont have a physical copy) but noted ~ eithway Tifa knew Aerith is looking for Zack ( at least that part ) he mentioned that on Gongaga

And I'm pretty sure Tifa told her everything.

I believe that too (somehow ) but since it was never mentioned I'm gonna give this one to @Maidenofwar but I think both girls just know each others hearts and respect each other. I'm gonna believe that since NPTK is her song' for everyone.

She saw the world with everyone else except it was Zack although it was him who initially told her not to be afraid of sky and he will take her to a non -scary sky. She saw world and meet a lot of people with everyone else soo it was only just, as external heroine for her to have a song for everyone and wanting to 'meet them again'

 

[Yoru]

I wanna believe that too but since it was never mentioned I'm gonna give this one to @Maidenofwar but I think both girls just know each others hearts and respect each other. I'm gonna believe that since NPTK is her song' for everyone.

Wait what ? People are still doubting about Aerith x Tifa ? If the game made something very clear is that they're BFF, love each other, respect each other and talk about everything that's wrong.

And the NPTK reveal is the last confirmation they love each other and they've never been in conflict for a boy.

Tifa loves Cloud. Aerith loves Cloud. Their first and foremost priority is to keep him safe. Aerith is just lonely, misses Zack, and is sad she can't do anything about the fact that Cloud and Tifa are childhood friend. She's not jealous about the people, she's just jealous about this link, this relation she would never know because she was alone pretty much all her life. And she's disturbed because this blonde guy acts and reminds her of Zack in everything he does. She doesn't know if she's falling for a fantasy or a real person. And the dream seems like to confirm it's something else than just romantic love.

But Aerith is always supporting Tifa (words of encouragements when Tifa and Cloud were alone in that room) and a beautiful song when you've picked Tifa side in the Gold Saucer.

And again, Cloud VA said it perfectly. It's so on point it's disturbing. People can love each other without thinking about sex and so on. Even if it was short, Aerith gained a special place in Cloud's mind and heart. They don't have to be a couple to care about each other or to have the desire to make more memories together. It's just great man. I'll say it again and again but these characters are at their peak with Remake and Rebirth. They've never been depicted so well.

 

[Yumelinh]

I can understand and sort of related to it to be honest. For me, once i put my intense shipping goggle on, I can never take it off… This happens to me for Bleach, where I think Ichigo X Rukia is the main couple, and got slapped in the face at the end…i re-read the manga lately, and still think ichigo x rukia are cute together….anyways, I guess the difference is some people like me are not so fixate on the idea of being canon, and can accept that other ship is the canon ship, which doesn’t stop me from enjoying my ship at all….there are so many fanart honestly. But for some people, being canon is a big deal, and apparently it doesn’t worth the time and money if their ship is not canon.

EDIT: maybe they just got really attached to Cloud X Aerith in the early game, and will ignore all the hint and development for Tifa in the later half of the game…it probably will only get worse if someone hold on to the idea that cloud X Aerith is the canon couple for 27 years. I don’t think anyone will be able to convince them they are not

I shipped Ichiruki too!! and oh boy, the slap we got with that ending was out of this world! We got humbled real hard So, if you ever wonder why I'm so cautious about claiming victory, no matter how safe a ship seems to be... it's because of them, lol.

That said, I reread Bleach recently as well, without that huge weight of caring too much about it as I did in the past, and I still came to the same conclusion e. that IR would make much more sense, imo (only behind an open ending with no ships, tbh). But if there's another thing that Bleach has taught me, it's that the author will do what he wanted/intended regardless of whether it makes sense to the story or the fans. No shade to Kubo btw, but it's more like a realisation that there are people behind these stories. So if they wake up tomorrow and decide to make, idk... Cloud and Cissnei canon, they will do it, and there's nothing we can do about it. That's why, no matter how confident I am about the story being told, for me, the game is over when it's actually over, lol.

 

[CldS7]

I can understand and sort of related to it to be honest. For me, once i put my intense shipping goggle on, I can never take it off… This happens to me for Bleach, where I think Ichigo X Rukia is the main couple, and got slapped in the face at the end…i re-read the manga lately, and still think ichigo x rukia are cute together….anyways, I guess the difference is some people like me are not so fixate on the idea of being canon, and can accept that other ship is the canon ship, which doesn’t stop me from enjoying my ship at all….there are so many fanart honestly. But for some people, being canon is a big deal, and apparently it doesn’t worth the time and money if their ship is not canon.

EDIT: maybe they just got really attached to Cloud X Aerith in the early game, and will ignore all the hint and development for Tifa in the later half of the game…it probably will only get worse if someone hold on to the idea that cloud X Aerith is the canon couple for 27 years. I don’t think anyone will be able to convince them they are not

I get what you're saying but I still think its different

in the case of Bleach you're more arguing about ships then anything else rather then the actual story or narrative

in the case of FF7 its always been an argument about narrative then anything else. Or you just refuse to play disk 2 and 3. Because the romance and ship is critical to the actual narrative.

Its like how most CA's continually push the narrative that Tifa is imprinting this hero identity onto Cloud and loves him as an idealistic version of himself which means you simply have no understood the story at all which is mind boggling to me

 

[Yoru]

I shipped Ichiruki too!! and oh boy, the slap we got with that ending was out of this world! We got humbled real hard So, if you ever wonder why I'm so cautious about claiming victory, no matter how safe a ship seems to be... it's because of them, lol.

That said, I reread Bleach recently as well, without that huge weight of caring too much about it as I did in the past, and I still came to the same conclusion e. that IR would make much more sense, imo (only behind an open ending with no ships, tbh). But if there's another thing that Bleach has taught me, it's that the author will do what he wanted/intended regardless of whether it makes sense to the story or the fans. No shade to Kubo btw, but it's more like a realisation that there are people behind these stories. So if they wake up tomorrow and decide to make, idk... Cloud and Cissnei canon, they will do it, and there's nothing we can do about it. That's why, no matter how confident I am about the story being told, for me, the game is over when it's actually over, lol.

I pretty much always lost all my ships in anime/manga lol. That's why I'm never against headcanon stuff and all that. Because you care for characters the author doesn't seem to be interested for.

But that's what it is. A headcanon. A personal preference. And that's my criticism of a certain (limited) branch of the CAs fandom. Their desire to impose something the game (even more with the remakes) doesn't seem to be portraying.

 

[CldS7]

I pretty much always lost all my ships in anime/manga lol. That's why I'm never against headcanon stuff and all that. Because you care for characters the author doesn't seem to be interested for.

But that's what it is. A headcanon. A personal preference. And that's my criticism of a certain (limited) branch of the CAs fandom. Their desire to impose something the game (even more with the remakes) doesn't seem to be portraying.

what I don't get about that branch of the fandom is everything they hate about Tifa's traits, is the traits that Aerith has, but everything they want for Aerith, is the traits and story that Tifa has??

idk what to compare it to cause I dont think I've seen anything like it in any other fandom tbh

 

[frosty]

Well, they still go on and on about the choices in OG as if those choices affected anything storywise. Listening to them talk, they make FF7 sound like some amalgamation of CW teen soap opera and choose your own adventure waifu a la BioWare.

Well to be very very fair to a brand new gamer, with no context whatsoever to the OG games - if I'm just beginning by playing Remake it just feels like I've been given 3 options of women who seem to really like me. I get a train roll with one and it looks like they almost kiss, I get a kiss on a cheek from one, and I have one that tells me "not to fall in love with me", I really might just have the impression that the second game allows me a "chose your own adventure option", especially since this whole "multiple branching romances" IS the norm nowadays.

I don't think the newcomers, save for the more astute, comb the context too hard, or realize the Cloud is significantly warmer to Tifa compared to the rest of the team. From what I've seen a good part of the new gamer population just go - oh Cloud is so stoic. Cloud doesn't express anything. He doesn't seem to react positively even when 2 beautiful women show that they really seem to like him.

Yeah… it is strange that that they seem to be more or less “debunking” CA stuff. One would think they’d wait until Part 3 releases in order to ensure the CA fanbase still buys it.

I don't want Part 3's marketing to lean anymore into this options bull shit, or love triangle bullshit, or let's see how "we still need to pander to Cloud and Aerith fans cos we still need their money" bull shit.

I want their Part 3 to lean heavily into a) this is the finale of a marathon, a labour of love that took +10 years to make - lean into the nostalgia of reimagining a most beloved franchise, and it's time to wrap up b) To have the devs talk clearly about their creative vision, how they grew from the original concepts to what it is today, and close off the whole compilation with a homage to the players who have stuck with them for 30 years already.

Make me tear up with nostalgia, not give me a headache from more "who does Cloud love"