SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
I wouldn't even call most of what I've seen overly harsh honestly. Extrovert energy grates on some people, I get that, and they're entitled to discuss that. I also agree that a couple of women in the writing room could maybe improve the Aerti friendship, make it more visible, so those points hold up to me to a degree. I don't think Aerith and Tifa's friendship is badly written... but it could be better. I think their dynamic of "surface level selfish extrovert" and "pathological people pleaser" explains a lot about why Tifa seems to make the most obvious effort in their friendship, and it works for them. That's just how their respective energies mesh.
But yeah, compared to the 95% mean-spirited shit posting older LTD threads tended to descend into, this one is mostly just chill as fuck, even when people complain.
Agreed about Nanaki touch, btw. Given my choice, I'd keep it, but add Aerith trying to comfort Tifa as well. Let Nanaki be the only one to react, that's fine, hell it'd potentially mean more that way. Just, let her try.
Edit: Fat finger bad spelling and additional thoughts.
But yeah, compared to the 95% mean-spirited shit posting older LTD threads tended to descend into, this one is mostly just chill as fuck, even when people complain.
Agreed about Nanaki touch, btw. Given my choice, I'd keep it, but add Aerith trying to comfort Tifa as well. Let Nanaki be the only one to react, that's fine, hell it'd potentially mean more that way. Just, let her try.
Edit: Fat finger bad spelling and additional thoughts.
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Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Nthing the "it would be far more poignant for Aerith to try and fail to touch and comfort Tifa and the rest" I wonder if we might get a version of these scenes in Part 3 where Aerith and the others are interacting, either as Cloud's delusion or one of the splinter worlds.
I mean the issue is their relationship could never truly mean anything that important when Aeriths last moments alive she'd rather spend on a 'dream date' with Cloud.
In the end their relationship between each other is basically meaningless cause Cloud is considered more important
they really need women in the writers room
In the end their relationship between each other is basically meaningless cause Cloud is considered more important
they really need women in the writers room
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Fair point Ryu. I'm a bit weary of the sheer amount of "maybe in the next game" stuff going around, but such is the nature of episodic games right? Here's hoping they don't overuse Aerith in RE3 trying to do then what they could have done now.
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Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Let's be fair. She didn't really chose. It's just that Cloud is the one who fell to his death lol
We didn't even know for sure what is this dream thing. Could be all in his head for what we know (remember Aerith didn't faint, got rescued by the other and went to the forest while Cloud was having this weird dream)
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
This feels disingenuous to me. You seem to be saying that someone can't love and value more than one person, and that prioritizing one over the other completely invalidates any relationship with the other. And to be frank, that's not a great view to have.
Also, why do so many people react as if Aerith knows she's dying at the dream date? In the OG it's made clear Aerith did not go nobly and willingly to her death. She wanted to live. She thought she could make it through this. Re-Aerith lost her knowledge of the future. Even if she still senses her death in advance, it seems to me she should want to live, to think that this time she could make it. An intentional heroic sacrifice lacks some of the tragedy of Aerith's sudden and arguably pointless murder (c'mon Sephiroth you didn't even prevent Holy). Of course the whole end of this game has ruined that sense of tragedy for plenty of people already, so I obviously could be reading this wrong.
Ok, so what I read into the above is in fact exactly what you're saying. That's certainly a take to have. So if I'm dying and choose to spend my last moments with Clicky (mother of my children for those who don't know me), does that mean my best friend is effectively meaningless to me? If I spend those last moments with my daughter does it invalidate my feelings about her mother? No, obviously. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that this argument has gotten away from you a little, cause otherwise this'd be a dick move to say.
I still don't disagree with this part
I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring as well that Tifa and Aerith's friendship could have been written better and more women could have been in the writer's room.
But....would it really be better if they were more friendly? What if the game showed them being incredibly close at the end, Aerith showed she cared about Tifa but still chose to pursue Cloud in the dream date? Wouldn't it still give the feeling of squick alot of people currently already have - that DESPITE the "beautiful friendship with Tifa" , Aerith is the kind of person who'd still want a romantic "rivalry" against a cherished friend?
I know the Witcher 3 probably may not be the best comparison, but there was the palpable air of awkwardness whenever Triss and Yenn meet. Perhaps that's more a realistic depiction of two friends interested in the same person
But....would it really be better if they were more friendly? What if the game showed them being incredibly close at the end, Aerith showed she cared about Tifa but still chose to pursue Cloud in the dream date? Wouldn't it still give the feeling of squick alot of people currently already have - that DESPITE the "beautiful friendship with Tifa" , Aerith is the kind of person who'd still want a romantic "rivalry" against a cherished friend?
I know the Witcher 3 probably may not be the best comparison, but there was the palpable air of awkwardness whenever Triss and Yenn meet. Perhaps that's more a realistic depiction of two friends interested in the same person
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Problem is Dream Aerith =/= Rebirth Aerith. She knows she's going to die because Sephiroth is literally telling her he's coming for her. That's why she put an end to the date and ask to go to the church for her final goodbye.
I still think it's not a real solid world. More like a spiritual one.
Again, during the dream date, the "real world" is still on march as we see the party rescuing Cloud and Aerith before leaving to the forest.
tl;dr : You're blaming the wrong Aerith.
This feels disingenuous to me. You seem to be saying that someone can't love and value more than one person, and that prioritizing one over the other completely invalidates any relationship with the other. And to be frank, that's not a great view to have.
Also, why do so many people react as if Aerith knows she's dying at the dream date? In the OG it's made clear Aerith did not go nobly and willingly to her death. She wanted to live. She thought she could make it through this. Re-Aerith lost her knowledge of the future. Even if she still senses her death in advance, it seems to me she should want to live, to think that this time she could make it. An intentional heroic sacrifice lacks some of the tragedy of Aerith's sudden and arguably pointless murder (c'mon Sephiroth you didn't even prevent Holy). Of course the whole end of this game has ruined that sense of tragedy for plenty of people already, so I obviously could be reading this wrong.
Ok, so what I read into the above is in fact exactly what you're saying. That's certainly a take to have. So if I'm dying and choose to spend my last moments with Clicky (mother of my children for those who don't know me), does that mean my best friend is effectively meaningless to me? If I spend those last moments with my daughter does it invalidate my feelings about her mother? No, obviously. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that this argument has gotten away from you a little, cause otherwise this'd be a dick move to say.
I still don't disagree with this part
No I’m saying that Cloud and Aerith don’t actually bond outside of Cloud. Everything resolves around Cloud. So everything is tied to cloud
The friendship doesn’t have any actual legs to stand on or breathe
The game doesn’t have enough sections of Tifa and Aerith on their own in a party without Cloud tbh
I mean you’re spot on with the last part. The Witcher 3 is far better with its female characters and Its ability to project with information without saying with them
but again my issue is that they could have at least pushed the Aerith to Tifa side more in rebirth when it’s heavily slanted towards Tifa to Aerith in rebirth which makes the character look worse when obviously the writers were trying to go for something different but they failed to convey that in my opinion
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Well... it's his game lol
You tend to forget we're playing from Cloud POV so of course the world rounds around him.
I still think you're too harsh (or read too deep) but wathever lol
And the Witcher 3 comparison doesn't work too well when Geralt can have sex with anybody without having consequences. Not the same setting. Not the same character mentality.
I agree with @Gym Leader Devil let my boy enjoy his life, he's allowed to have other girls around him. Doesn't mean he stopped give a shit about Tifa
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Not sure for the English but the French and Japanese versions make sure you know you're in between the real world and the Lifestream, aka not dead but not really alive either.
As for Aerith, you know what struck me? It's that she wanted to be Tifa's childhood friend, not Cloud's. She dreamed of that and envied Cloud for it. Which tells a lot about how she loves Tifa!
As for Aerith, you know what struck me? It's that she wanted to be Tifa's childhood friend, not Cloud's. She dreamed of that and envied Cloud for it. Which tells a lot about how she loves Tifa!
True he can have sex with random whores at any time which is stupid
But at least there is an actual quest and consequence to romancing both Characters
Ofc it’s Clouds game. I’m saying if they wanted to make Tifa and Aeriths friendship better then it would have been better to make sections of them together without Cloud
If that’s what they wanted to convey I struggled to understand that at all tbh
overheat28
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Overheat
As far as the ending scene where Aerith doesn't comfort Tifa goes, I don't think we have the full picture to make assumptions.
I saw a very interesting take on Twitter yesterday regarding the end credits with video proof to back it up. They cycle through all the cutscenes in the game during the credits, except a few and it is very interesting what they omit.
They show the black robes in Nibelheim and then nothing till the Bronco takes off at the very end, all those scenes in between aren't shown at all. There is literally a gap in the cutscene reel while the credits keep rolling and they don't show any of that stuff. After the gap ends, the last scene shown is the Bronco flying off and Aerith saying her farewell alone.
I think Max was onto something, crazy as it may sound. I wouldn't call that end scene definitive and certainly would not draw conclusions about Aerith's character based off that. There is something very off here.
I saw a very interesting take on Twitter yesterday regarding the end credits with video proof to back it up. They cycle through all the cutscenes in the game during the credits, except a few and it is very interesting what they omit.
They show the black robes in Nibelheim and then nothing till the Bronco takes off at the very end, all those scenes in between aren't shown at all. There is literally a gap in the cutscene reel while the credits keep rolling and they don't show any of that stuff. After the gap ends, the last scene shown is the Bronco flying off and Aerith saying her farewell alone.
I think Max was onto something, crazy as it may sound. I wouldn't call that end scene definitive and certainly would not draw conclusions about Aerith's character based off that. There is something very off here.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
That's the one i posted in the spoiler thread !
It's so meta it's so good. I love it.
I do like the idea that similar to how Zack died and Cloud Jenova created an identity and persona so he wouldn’t have to cope with his death
Cloud is literally imagining a reality where he did save Aerith and left her there to pray
But the part in the 3rd game is having to come to an acceptance on loss and death
That could be a well done plotline tbh
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Yes I just saw that, you can check it here: I haven't decided yet but it is possible that it's because it's all in Cloud's head, we'll see what comes out. I think it's very clear that they knew where they were going with the 2nd and 3rd game, seeing some of the ending scenes... it's very interesting.
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
@Yoru: I'm not blaming anyone, AltAerith, ReAerith, Aerith from the timeline where humanity is replaced by carnivorous wasp-folk 
That whole thing is too vague for me to really engage with, so I'm still taking the Rick Sanchez approach of "just don't think about it" until we get details that spell out how this works.
But I will say, if as it seems we have two different Aeriths... Aerithi? If it's two different iterations of the individual with different memories, then DreamAerith's choices are largely irrelevant to whether or not the relationship of ReAerith and Tifa is meaningful or not
This is literally not what you said before. I'd like that addressed, please. You spoke so confidently at the time, I wasn't expecting you to just drop it.
At any rate, I would love to see more of Tifa and Aerith without Cloud. I think it's a slight exaggeration to say they only bond through Cloud, but I could do with more non-Cloud bonding than we got. But yes, everything revolves around Cloud, Cloud is almost always in the main party, Cloud is the focal character. The whole game revolves around Chocobutt and his issues. I agree that better writing choices would allow this to still be the case while more clearly demonstrating the AerTi friendship forming. I agree that a few women joining the writing team would likely help with that. I do not agree that the whole friendship has no legs to stand on, or that it's ever rendered meaningless as you earlier asserted.
That whole thing is too vague for me to really engage with, so I'm still taking the Rick Sanchez approach of "just don't think about it" until we get details that spell out how this works.But I will say, if as it seems we have two different Aeriths... Aerithi? If it's two different iterations of the individual with different memories, then DreamAerith's choices are largely irrelevant to whether or not the relationship of ReAerith and Tifa is meaningful or not
This is literally not what you said before. I'd like that addressed, please. You spoke so confidently at the time, I wasn't expecting you to just drop it.
At any rate, I would love to see more of Tifa and Aerith without Cloud. I think it's a slight exaggeration to say they only bond through Cloud, but I could do with more non-Cloud bonding than we got. But yes, everything revolves around Cloud, Cloud is almost always in the main party, Cloud is the focal character. The whole game revolves around Chocobutt and his issues. I agree that better writing choices would allow this to still be the case while more clearly demonstrating the AerTi friendship forming. I agree that a few women joining the writing team would likely help with that. I do not agree that the whole friendship has no legs to stand on, or that it's ever rendered meaningless as you earlier asserted.
it was just spoken confidently from my personal viewpoint and opinion from what I got from it. Obviously I'm 100% wrong cause thats not what the Devs have said about it. It just didnt work at all for me
and going back to the relationship not having any legs to stand on. I just dont buy their friendship at all in a way by the end of the game they're best friends. This is 2024 and women dont suddenly become best friends because they decide to talk about boys and shopping.
im 100% in the minority but I just cant help take away from their scenes together tbh