SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Maidenofwar]

I am not discoursing with you because you are ignoring the entire game let alone the ending and Nojima on their friendship.

You are being hyper critical of Aerith for no reason than bending down and being sad while looking at Tifa and Nanaki is not enough for you. Tifa had her head buried in her arms at the time.

 

[CldS7]

lmfao im not ignoring anything im critiquing the fact no female writer in the writing room severely hurt their dynamic and the dynamic itself was not written equally which is an issue with how the Devs wrote the game

didnt you put me on ignore the other day anyway lol??

im being hyper critical of their so called friendship when the only time Aerith reassures Tifa is literally at the start of the game. The whole game is Tifa doing things and caring about Aerith and we never see Aerith do anything back. I'm sure we will see some stuff in Part 3 from Aeriths side but I cannot buy their friendship at all, when the conversations they have are so coded by old 50 year old men lol

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I stand by what I said, Aerith doesn't deserve the unnecessary flak for the ending.

Please bear in mind that whatever anyone else might say, I at least am not getting on Aerith's case for this. And I get how frustrating it can be to see people discussing how annoying they find a character you enjoy so much. I'm guessing that's why the post I initially responded to read slightly aggro? I dunno, I still struggle to read people/the room in text from sometimes so I could be seeing defensive aggro that's for reals not there If so say the word, I'd rather understand your real position than assume wrongly.

What I will say for myself on this matter is that I wish the writers had chosen for Aerith to reach out to her devastated best friend. It doesn't matter to me if Tifa can sense her or not, as close as they've become it seems like Aerith should reach for her in some way, a visual storytelling shorthand for "I want to comfort you" is something I want to see here even if the answer is a sad "but I can't" in the end. The ghost who sadly reaches out for a loved one only to find they can't feel it is an old damn trope for a reason. If they didn't want people griping about this, they could have just skipped her patting Nanaki and drawing attention to it, but she did, we noticed, and now want to know why just Nanaki gets the effort. If there's any in character reason, I'd like to hear it, otherwise I stick with "what the hell, writers?"

As for the rest of the party, let's not be unkind to them either. Cloud's currently sliding further from reality in general, and everyone is in some state of grief and shock. Hopefully part 3 shows them shaking it off enough to support each other properly, because they all need it right now. Everyone lost big when they lost Aerith. Everyone.

 

[Yoru]

Tifa withdrawing into herself to the extent she can't sense Aerith is not Aerith's fault. Why not direct some of that misplaced ire at the entire living party for not comforting Tifa then. Aerith did not ignore Tifa, she came to stand by her side, but Tifa couldn't sense her because she was withdrawn. There is nothing malicious or ill meaning there.

You can't blame Tifa for that lol. How is she supposed to know her ghost friend is really a thing ?

I'm not blaming Aerith either. Just found this remark a bit weird.

From what we know, there is no real rule in this world. Some sense things (Marlene), some see things (Cloud in AC ending). Can you really close yourself from it ? idk. Imo it is easier for Aerith to try to show some sort of sign of affection even if Tifa chose to not receive it.

She decided to use Nanaki to show them she was there. Totally fine. You can't blame some of us to want more of Aerti.
And again, i'm not attacking Aerith. I just wanted more. That's all.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

@Yoru: AC/C shows us that in better circumstances Tifa can absolutely sense Aerith, so I can see a bit of where that's coming from. But yeah, that's in better circumstances. Which these circumstances are definitely not.

This is a big part of why Maiden is coming off as aggressively defensive to me. Even if I can somewhat agree that Tifa has "withdrawn into herself to the extent that she can't sense Aerith," I'd contend that a better phrasing there would be "Tifa is so overcome with grief that she can barely sense flesh and blood people nearby right now," and even then... Aerith reaching for her wouldn't be indicative of what Tifa can or can't sense. Just as I said before, it'd indicate Aerith wanting to connect with her friend. That's what I feel is missing from that scene.

 

[Yoru]

@Yoru: AC/C shows us that in better circumstances Tifa can absolutely sense Aerith, so I can see a bit of where that's coming from. But yeah, that's in better circumstances. Which these circumstances are definitely not.

This is a big part of why Maiden is coming off as aggressively defensive to me. Even if I can somewhat agree that Tifa has "withdrawn into herself to the extent that she can't sense Aerith," I'd contend that a better phrasing there would be "Tifa is so overcome with grief that she can barely sense flesh and blood people nearby right now," and even then... Aerith reaching for her wouldn't be indicative if what Tifa can or can't sense. Just as I said before, it'd indicate Aerith wanting to connect with her friend. That's what I feel is missing from that scene.

The other were too harsh, that's why I was defending Aerith some posts ago.

But yeah, the sadness here is not that Tifa can't sense her anyway. It's just that Aerith didn't even try. Not a big deal, she came near them. But yeah I just wanted more, purely selfish wish.

But I think it's just an artistic choice and we're reading to deep into it. The Nanaki touch was maybe too much even. They should have just let her be there in the background looking at them

 

[CldS7]

anyway the issue is once again the devs cant really write good relationships and dynamics between women

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I wouldn't even call most of what I've seen overly harsh honestly. Extrovert energy grates on some people, I get that, and they're entitled to discuss that. I also agree that a couple of women in the writing room could maybe improve the Aerti friendship, make it more visible, so those points hold up to me to a degree. I don't think Aerith and Tifa's friendship is badly written... but it could be better. I think their dynamic of "surface level selfish extrovert" and "pathological people pleaser" explains a lot about why Tifa seems to make the most obvious effort in their friendship, and it works for them. That's just how their respective energies mesh.

But yeah, compared to the 95% mean-spirited shit posting older LTD threads tended to descend into, this one is mostly just chill as fuck, even when people complain.

Agreed about Nanaki touch, btw. Given my choice, I'd keep it, but add Aerith trying to comfort Tifa as well. Let Nanaki be the only one to react, that's fine, hell it'd potentially mean more that way. Just, let her try.

Edit: Fat finger bad spelling and additional thoughts.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Nthing the "it would be far more poignant for Aerith to try and fail to touch and comfort Tifa and the rest" I wonder if we might get a version of these scenes in Part 3 where Aerith and the others are interacting, either as Cloud's delusion or one of the splinter worlds.

 

[CldS7]

I mean the issue is their relationship could never truly mean anything that important when Aeriths last moments alive she'd rather spend on a 'dream date' with Cloud.

In the end their relationship between each other is basically meaningless cause Cloud is considered more important

they really need women in the writers room

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Fair point Ryu. I'm a bit weary of the sheer amount of "maybe in the next game" stuff going around, but such is the nature of episodic games right? Here's hoping they don't overuse Aerith in RE3 trying to do then what they could have done now.

 

[Yoru]

I mean the issue is their relationship could never truly mean anything that important when Aeriths last moments alive she'd rather spend on a 'dream date' with Cloud.

In the end their relationship between each other is basically meaningless cause Cloud is considered more important

they really need women in the writers room

Let's be fair. She didn't really chose. It's just that Cloud is the one who fell to his death lol

We didn't even know for sure what is this dream thing. Could be all in his head for what we know (remember Aerith didn't faint, got rescued by the other and went to the forest while Cloud was having this weird dream)

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I mean the issue is their relationship could never truly mean anything that important when Aeriths last moments alive she'd rather spend on a 'dream date' with Cloud.

This feels disingenuous to me. You seem to be saying that someone can't love and value more than one person, and that prioritizing one over the other completely invalidates any relationship with the other. And to be frank, that's not a great view to have.

Also, why do so many people react as if Aerith knows she's dying at the dream date? In the OG it's made clear Aerith did not go nobly and willingly to her death. She wanted to live. She thought she could make it through this. Re-Aerith lost her knowledge of the future. Even if she still senses her death in advance, it seems to me she should want to live, to think that this time she could make it. An intentional heroic sacrifice lacks some of the tragedy of Aerith's sudden and arguably pointless murder (c'mon Sephiroth you didn't even prevent Holy). Of course the whole end of this game has ruined that sense of tragedy for plenty of people already, so I obviously could be reading this wrong.

In the end their relationship between each other is basically meaningless cause Cloud is considered more important

Ok, so what I read into the above is in fact exactly what you're saying. That's certainly a take to have. So if I'm dying and choose to spend my last moments with Clicky (mother of my children for those who don't know me), does that mean my best friend is effectively meaningless to me? If I spend those last moments with my daughter does it invalidate my feelings about her mother? No, obviously. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that this argument has gotten away from you a little, cause otherwise this'd be a dick move to say.

they really need women in the writers room

I still don't disagree with this part

 

[frosty]

I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring as well that Tifa and Aerith's friendship could have been written better and more women could have been in the writer's room.

But....would it really be better if they were more friendly? What if the game showed them being incredibly close at the end, Aerith showed she cared about Tifa but still chose to pursue Cloud in the dream date? Wouldn't it still give the feeling of squick alot of people currently already have - that DESPITE the "beautiful friendship with Tifa" , Aerith is the kind of person who'd still want a romantic "rivalry" against a cherished friend?

I know the Witcher 3 probably may not be the best comparison, but there was the palpable air of awkwardness whenever Triss and Yenn meet. Perhaps that's more a realistic depiction of two friends interested in the same person

 

[Yoru]

Also, why do so many people react as if Aerith knows she's dying at the dream date? In the OG it's made clear Aerith did not go nobly and willingly to her death. She wanted to live. She thought she could make it through this. Re-Aerith lost her knowledge of the future. Even if she still senses her death in advance, it seems to me she should want to live, to think that this time she could make it. An intentional heroic sacrifice lacks some of the tragedy of Aerith's sudden and arguably pointless murder (c'mon Sephiroth you didn't even prevent Holy). Of course the whole end of this game has ruined that sense of tragedy for plenty of people already, so I obviously could be reading this wrong.

Problem is Dream Aerith =/= Rebirth Aerith. She knows she's going to die because Sephiroth is literally telling her he's coming for her. That's why she put an end to the date and ask to go to the church for her final goodbye.

I still think it's not a real solid world. More like a spiritual one.

Again, during the dream date, the "real world" is still on march as we see the party rescuing Cloud and Aerith before leaving to the forest.

tl;dr : You're blaming the wrong Aerith.

 

[CldS7]

This feels disingenuous to me. You seem to be saying that someone can't love and value more than one person, and that prioritizing one over the other completely invalidates any relationship with the other. And to be frank, that's not a great view to have.

Also, why do so many people react as if Aerith knows she's dying at the dream date? In the OG it's made clear Aerith did not go nobly and willingly to her death. She wanted to live. She thought she could make it through this. Re-Aerith lost her knowledge of the future. Even if she still senses her death in advance, it seems to me she should want to live, to think that this time she could make it. An intentional heroic sacrifice lacks some of the tragedy of Aerith's sudden and arguably pointless murder (c'mon Sephiroth you didn't even prevent Holy). Of course the whole end of this game has ruined that sense of tragedy for plenty of people already, so I obviously could be reading this wrong.



Ok, so what I read into the above is in fact exactly what you're saying. That's certainly a take to have. So if I'm dying and choose to spend my last moments with Clicky (mother of my children for those who don't know me), does that mean my best friend is effectively meaningless to me? If I spend those last moments with my daughter does it invalidate my feelings about her mother? No, obviously. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that this argument has gotten away from you a little, cause otherwise this'd be a dick move to say.



I still don't disagree with this part

No I’m saying that Cloud and Aerith don’t actually bond outside of Cloud. Everything resolves around Cloud. So everything is tied to cloud

The friendship doesn’t have any actual legs to stand on or breathe

The game doesn’t have enough sections of Tifa and Aerith on their own in a party without Cloud tbh

 

[CldS7]

I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring as well that Tifa and Aerith's friendship could have been written better and more women could have been in the writer's room.

But....would it really be better if they were more friendly? What if the game showed them being incredibly close at the end, Aerith showed she cared about Tifa but still chose to pursue Cloud in the dream date? Wouldn't it still give the feeling of squick alot of people currently already have - that DESPITE the "beautiful friendship with Tifa" , Aerith is the kind of person who'd still want a romantic "rivalry" against a cherished friend?

I know the Witcher 3 probably may not be the best comparison, but there was the palpable air of awkwardness whenever Triss and Yenn meet. Perhaps that's more a realistic depiction of two friends interested in the same person

I mean you’re spot on with the last part. The Witcher 3 is far better with its female characters and Its ability to project with information without saying with them

but again my issue is that they could have at least pushed the Aerith to Tifa side more in rebirth when it’s heavily slanted towards Tifa to Aerith in rebirth which makes the character look worse when obviously the writers were trying to go for something different but they failed to convey that in my opinion

 

[Yoru]

No I’m saying that Cloud and Aerith don’t actually bond outside of Cloud. Everything resolves around Cloud. So everything is tied to cloud

The friendship doesn’t have any actual legs to stand on or breathe

The game doesn’t have enough sections of Tifa and Aerith on their own in a party without Cloud tbh

Well... it's his game lol

You tend to forget we're playing from Cloud POV so of course the world rounds around him.

I still think you're too harsh (or read too deep) but wathever lol

And the Witcher 3 comparison doesn't work too well when Geralt can have sex with anybody without having consequences. Not the same setting. Not the same character mentality.

I agree with @Gym Leader Devil let my boy enjoy his life, he's allowed to have other girls around him. Doesn't mean he stopped give a shit about Tifa

 

[Eerie]

Not sure for the English but the French and Japanese versions make sure you know you're in between the real world and the Lifestream, aka not dead but not really alive either.

As for Aerith, you know what struck me? It's that she wanted to be Tifa's childhood friend, not Cloud's. She dreamed of that and envied Cloud for it. Which tells a lot about how she loves Tifa!

 

[CldS7]

Well... it's his game lol

You tend to forget we're playing from Cloud POV so of course the world rounds around him.

I still think you're too harsh (or read too deep) but wathever lol

And the Witcher 3 comparison doesn't work too well when Geralt can have sex with anybody without having consequences. Not the same setting. Not the same character mentality.

I agree with @Gym Leader Devil let my boy enjoy his life, he's allowed to have other girls around him. Doesn't mean he stopped give a shit about Tifa

True he can have sex with random whores at any time which is stupid

But at least there is an actual quest and consequence to romancing both Characters

Ofc it’s Clouds game. I’m saying if they wanted to make Tifa and Aeriths friendship better then it would have been better to make sections of them together without Cloud

 

[CldS7]

Not sure for the English but the French and Japanese versions make sure you know you're in between the real world and the Lifestream, aka not dead but not really alive either.

As for Aerith, you know what struck me? It's that she wanted to be Tifa's childhood friend, not Cloud's. She dreamed of that and envied Cloud for it. Which tells a lot about how she loves Tifa!

If that’s what they wanted to convey I struggled to understand that at all tbh

 

[overheat28]

As far as the ending scene where Aerith doesn't comfort Tifa goes, I don't think we have the full picture to make assumptions.

I saw a very interesting take on Twitter yesterday regarding the end credits with video proof to back it up. They cycle through all the cutscenes in the game during the credits, except a few and it is very interesting what they omit.

They show the black robes in Nibelheim and then nothing till the Bronco takes off at the very end, all those scenes in between aren't shown at all. There is literally a gap in the cutscene reel while the credits keep rolling and they don't show any of that stuff. After the gap ends, the last scene shown is the Bronco flying off and Aerith saying her farewell alone.

I think Max was onto something, crazy as it may sound. I wouldn't call that end scene definitive and certainly would not draw conclusions about Aerith's character based off that. There is something very off here.

 

[Yoru]

As far as the ending scene where Aerith doesn't comfort Tifa goes, I don't think we have the full picture to make assumptions.

I saw a very interesting take on Twitter yesterday regarding the end credits with video proof to back it up. They cycle through all the cutscenes in the game during the credits, except a few and it is very interesting what they omit.

They show the black robes in Nibelheim and then nothing till the Bronco takes off at the very end, all those scenes in between aren't shown at all. There is literally a gap in the cutscene reel while the credits keep rolling and they don't show any of that stuff. After the gap ends, the last scene shown is the Bronco flying off and Aerith saying her farewell alone.

I think Max was onto something, crazy as it may sound. I wouldn't call that end scene definitive and certainly would not draw conclusions about Aerith's character based off that. There is something very off here.

That's the one i posted in the spoiler thread !

It's so meta it's so good. I love it.

 

[CldS7]

As far as the ending scene where Aerith doesn't comfort Tifa goes, I don't think we have the full picture to make assumptions.

I saw a very interesting take on Twitter yesterday regarding the end credits with video proof to back it up. They cycle through all the cutscenes in the game during the credits, except a few and it is very interesting what they omit.

They show the black robes in Nibelheim and then nothing till the Bronco takes off at the very end, all those scenes in between aren't shown at all. There is literally a gap in the cutscene reel while the credits keep rolling and they don't show any of that stuff. After the gap ends, the last scene shown is the Bronco flying off and Aerith saying her farewell alone.

I think Max was onto something, crazy as it may sound. I wouldn't call that end scene definitive and certainly would not draw conclusions about Aerith's character based off that. There is something very off here.

I do like the idea that similar to how Zack died and Cloud Jenova created an identity and persona so he wouldn’t have to cope with his death

Cloud is literally imagining a reality where he did save Aerith and left her there to pray

But the part in the 3rd game is having to come to an acceptance on loss and death

That could be a well done plotline tbh

 

[Eerie]

As far as the ending scene where Aerith doesn't comfort Tifa goes, I don't think we have the full picture to make assumptions.

I saw a very interesting take on Twitter yesterday regarding the end credits with video proof to back it up. They cycle through all the cutscenes in the game during the credits, except a few and it is very interesting what they omit.

They show the black robes in Nibelheim and then nothing till the Bronco takes off at the very end, all those scenes in between aren't shown at all. There is literally a gap in the cutscene reel while the credits keep rolling and they don't show any of that stuff. After the gap ends, the last scene shown is the Bronco flying off and Aerith saying her farewell alone.

I think Max was onto something, crazy as it may sound. I wouldn't call that end scene definitive and certainly would not draw conclusions about Aerith's character based off that. There is something very off here.

Yes I just saw that, you can check it here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1775409188690165929

I haven't decided yet but it is possible that it's because it's all in Cloud's head, we'll see what comes out. I think it's very clear that they knew where they were going with the 2nd and 3rd game, seeing some of the ending scenes... it's very interesting.