SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I'm just sick of the whining.

There are no baits or grand conspiracies. They don't have to forbid themselves from talking about and highlighting one of the couples in the game because a certain part of the public has chosen to make an headcanon their reason for living. Cloud loves Tifa romantically. Cloud loves Aerith platonically. One is not more important than the other. It's just different. That's the story they've chosen to tell. Let's deal with it now and stop seeing evil everywhere.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
So here again is my problem apparently the booklet for the soundtrack shows the CA scenes, why does marketing do this, wouldn't it be better to tell an honest story.
Wait what CA scenes? The booklet is the buster sword w/ the Black materia inside of it and then on the inside Aerith is praying at the ToTA. Unless there's more I haven't seen.
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Wait what CA scenes? The booklet is the buster sword w/ the Black materia inside of it and then on the inside Aerith is praying at the ToTA.
Do you have the booklet or screenshots of it? I always feel better when we can look at the actual materials in question.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Do you have the booklet or screenshots of it? I always feel better when we can look at the actual materials in question.
Mhm! Here's a link to a tweet of someone opening the package up. And here's a link to the full layout of the product you can buy.

The product description is:
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth will be getting two versions of its original soundtrack, available in a Special or Normal edition. The Special edition will come in a bonus Buster Sword case and include an additional Gold Saucer packaged CD. The Tower Records bonus will be a Chocobo memo pad, only while supplies last!
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Do you have the booklet or screenshots of it? I always feel better when we can look at the actual materials in question.
This is an image for the special edition. Not sure if there is a regular edition with different stuff.
 

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Eerie

Fire and Blood
I disagree about it being a "dream world" but it happens when Cloud himself is asleep and fits the Aerith definition of a date so it still fits.
I actually don't think it's a dream world but it's how she ends up describing it to Cloud because the truth is that it's a bit more complicated than that and she doesn't have the time to explain it - although she does a pretty good job in a few words: it's her world, between the real world and the Lifestream. My personal guess is that it's her Promised Land - especially the church.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I actually don't think it's a dream world but it's how she ends up describing it to Cloud because the truth is that it's a bit more complicated than that and she doesn't have the time to explain it - although she does a pretty good job in a few words: it's her world, between the real world and the Lifestream. My personal guess is that it's her Promised Land - especially the church.
I think it's even more complicated than even that and might have links to the very nature of cosmology in Final Fantasy and how there's supposed to be a crystal at the heart of every world/ reality and how everything is linked via the interdimensional rift. I think Sephiroth is attempting to pull an Ultimecia style move laterally.

This is what I've seen so far:
So what they mean by "Has CA Scenes" is "shows a picture of a scene with Cloud and Aerith"
I am curious what scenes are in the rest of the booklet.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Pretty sure it will be the same with Rebirth because : none of the dates contradict the others.

And that's the whole point. You can make the choice you want with the max affinity you want... You'll have to follow Cloud will. If he doesn't want to kiss someone, he won't.
Things is, the ultimanias are rarely a canonicity walkthrough, although people love using them as such. Usually its people going "THERE IS A SCREENSHOT OF THIS SCENE THEREFORE THAT SCENE HAPPENED, END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!" when really that's not how these things are intended I think.
I'd like some sort of clarification about how we should read the dates but my guess is that nothing will be mentioned that really touches on "what actually happened", more generic mechanical crap like "who shows up for the date depends on your affection rating", which essentially completely ignores what "actually" happened, or how we should interpret the effects of the events of the date on the feelings and continuation of the story.

And honestly, does it even matter?

Ultimately it comes down to whats been said before, with what we've seen concerning Cloud being aware of Zacks fondness for Aerith, and all the baggage that comes with Zacks sacrifice and attempts to get back to her, along with what has already been established concerning Tifa and Zack, I don't feel like there is any way to write a version of Clerith where it becomes impossible to do runs that do not make Cloud and Aerith seem absolutely godawful, and that's a problem.

Like I've said before, all runs need to make sense. Which means that whenever you write the continuation for the story you need to write it as fitting every potential previous playthrough. For Cloti, not a problem, in an Aerith playthrough we still get Cloud and Tifas growing romance as well as how much Aerith pines over Zack. Cloud and Aerith holding hands has zero impact on how we view them as people when Cloud "switches" to Tifa post Aeriths death, nor to Aeriths reunion with Zack post death.
We understand that it's fine to move on 5 years after someone dies. We understand that Aerith and Cloud was barely romantic, if at all, and that Tifa was already equally if not more romantically entangled with Cloud even before Aeriths death, we understand that Cloud can move on after Aeriths death, we understand that Aerith saw Zack in Cloud, we understand that Cloud was not himself.
Not a single route you currently play makes it so that "switching from Aerith to Tifa" makes the characters look bad. If anything the worst people look is when its still "Cloud and Aerith", since it still feels dirty to Tifa and Zack, but there are extenuating circumstances, so ok.


But what about a Tifa playthrough that (and this is even assuming player choice) switches to an Aerith playthrough in part 3? Now we would have a game where Cloud kisses Tifa, and then completely abandons her. And one where Cloud is constantly contrasted with Zack, with Zack looking like a perfect and loyal partner, while Cloud is dismissive of Aerith and kissing other women. And yet Aerith ignores that her best friend had kissed Cloud, and all the other baggage that we've mentioned about Zack sacrificing himself so that Cloud could reject the girl he kissed to be with the girl Zack was trying to get back to.

These people are awful, canonicity be damned. Someone could say "well, the Tifa kiss didn't really happen canonically so he's not really cheating" but screw that, if it happens in my playthrough, then it happens, that's the story I get to see, and that story is awful!

SE, if they have any sense, can't make a game where it's possible to play the characters that awfully, to have a story that twisted, and so they wont. Because ultimately the only reason it matters which date is canon is because we're trying to figure out "what happened" so that we can know what the backstory is that will determine what happens next, because that's what its all about, what happens next. But it doesn't matter what is canon for "what happens next", because "what happens next", has to fit all of them.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I mean wouldn't showing the CT dates also be good marketing strategy?
Sure but that's not what Rebirth marketing was. It was Aerith's farewell tour, so Aerith scenes are the ones that get highlighted. That doesn't really mean they're marketing CA romantically tbh, especially now that the fandom has seen these scenes play out. It's not like these photos can bait or trick anyone.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I mean wouldn't showing the CT dates also be good marketing strategy?
Not really, this is Aeriths game, it's all about her final journey, which in turn is all about the bonds she's made along the way, hence NPTK being the theme song.

but yeah, calling it "marketing" may give the wrong impression, because it's not like the people who buy these items need to be persuaded to buy the game, if someone buy this, then they've already got the game.

What it is supposed to be is a coherent package, a single experience. And it makes sense to put the focal point of that experience around what is also the focal point of the second game, which is Aeriths death.

Now personally I hate this, because I absolutely LOATHE how Aeriths death has been twisted and perverted into some sick spectacle these days. But I do get what they're going with. This is the choice they've made, so they should be consistent.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
These people are awful, canonicity be damned. Someone could say "well, the Tifa kiss didn't really happen canonically so he's not really cheating" but screw that, if it happens in my playthrough, then it happens, that's the story I get to see, and that story is awful!

SE, if they have any sense, can't make a game where it's possible to play the characters that awfully, to have a story that twisted, and so they wont. Because ultimately the only reason it matters which date is canon is because we're trying to figure out "what happened" so that we can know what the backstory is that will determine what happens next, because that's what its all about, what happens next. But it doesn't matter what is canon for "what happens next", because "what happens next", has to fit all of them.
That's why the kiss is a big deal. CA can argue all they want, the moment they decide to put it in the game is the moment they killed the classic LTD in their developpement cycle.

Like we said again and again, whatever the date you chose to see (and dev are asking people to view them all) the game is crafted in such a way that they are all canon.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
Mhm! Here's a link to a tweet of someone opening the package up. And here's a link to the full layout of the product you can buy.

The product description is:
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth will be getting two versions of its original soundtrack, available in a Special or Normal edition. The Special edition will come in a bonus Buster Sword case and include an additional Gold Saucer packaged CD. The Tower Records bonus will be a Chocobo memo pad, only while supplies last!
Wait that's it? What's CA here exactly?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I agree with @Stiggie. Part 3 needs to have narrative cohesion with Part 2, and so the devs have to make it knowing many players got a variable scene at Gold Saucer.

This is why one girl got a kiss and the other didn’t. Because otherwise, they’d have to account for both in Part 3 and as this is a set story, they can’t have that branching path.

@Hellenic it’s a picture of their date. But tbh, the booklet is just screenshots of the game and shows other screens as well. That scene does occur in the game… so it’s in the marketing.
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
I think it's even more complicated than even that and might have links to the very nature of cosmology in Final Fantasy and how there's supposed to be a crystal at the heart of every world/ reality and how everything is linked via the interdimensional rift. I think Sephiroth is attempting to pull an Ultimecia style move laterally.
Honestly maybe you're right but I'm not well versed enough into that kind of lore. Personally, as an FFVII fan, I feel they need to explain:
  • the Promise Land
  • how did Zack survive until ACC
And Aerith having her Promise Land in between our world and the Lifestream (as I assume all Cetras would have in the past) would explain both in a pretty neat way. And I mean all those churches were destroyed until the last standing one, once "our" Aerith died: a CC-like church.
For Sephiroth, I could see him pull what you said completely but I'd grumble that they didn't explain the Zack not melting into the LS and PL when they had the chance to. But it could also be a mix of both theories, which could be interesting; it's very clear that Sephiroth, refusing to die, is trying to pull something bigger than just Meteor, IMHO.
I mean wouldn't showing the CT dates also be good marketing strategy?
I mean in the end, it's a Aerith game and the whole marketing has been anchored around that. To me it's natural that it continues that way? Even if I feel they seriously botched their PR for a game that was so easily marketable. Next game we'll probably have a lot of Tifa-centric PR too, which is natural since it's her part.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
People are way too focused on this non-optional/optional thing.

Would be funny if in a couple days the Ultimania’s like “so yeah, all the dates are canon.”

I got the remake ultimania yesterday. I saw the rebirth one is supposed to be released on Friday. Can’t find any other information on it though. I’d figure it’d be advertised on their site or something.

Imagine in the ultimania there is just a big picture spread of the kiss…(pipe dream)
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
the Promise Land
I usually go for more personal interpretations of what the promised land is meant to be and I think that will always be valid, but I do think that the concept of "the promised land" is supposed to work on multiple levels, and if I had to take a guess at what the promised land will mean for the external story I think that after Rebirth I can.

With all the different timelines and Aerith warping people between them and doing all her weird shit, my guess is that Aerith will take us through all these alternate hypothetical universes and guide the story towards the most positive outcome. Making sure we walk the path between all the possible branches that ultimately leads to the one outcome where T̶h̶a̶n̶o̶s̶ I mean Sephiroth doesn't win.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I got the remake ultimania yesterday. I saw the rebirth one is supposed to be released on Friday. Can’t find any other information on it though. I’d figure it’d be advertised on their site or something.

Imagine in the ultimania there is just a big picture spread of the kiss…(pipe dream)
It’s supposed to release on the 12th in Japan. So just a couple more days.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I usually go for more personal interpretations of what the promised land is meant to be and I think that will always be valid, but I do think that the concept of "the promised land" is supposed to work on multiple levels, and if I had to take a guess at what the promised land will mean for the external story I think that after Rebirth I can.

With all the different timelines and Aerith warping people between them and doing all her weird shit, my guess is that Aerith will take us through all these alternate hypothetical universes and guide the story towards the most positive outcome. Making sure we walk the path between all the possible branches that ultimately leads to the one outcome where T̶h̶a̶n̶o̶s̶ I mean Sephiroth doesn't win.
As per the OG the Promise Land is specifically in the Lifestream, once Cetras died and left their harsh lives behind to find their land of supreme happiness.
It has also been described for Cloud as being his family - Tifa, Denzel and Marlene, so it’s not only a place, but can also be people. Oh hi Zack in the not suspiciously CC-like church!
 

shady

Pro Adventurer
I think shippers on both sides of the aisle tend to overanalyze every little micro detail to try and lend creedence to the validity of their ship. However because of this it leads to absolute nothingburgers being chosen as absolute proof that the ship is valid. Again, not pointing any fingers because I believe both sides do this, however at the same time I believe one side does it more because there is less to go on, or there is more ambiguity in the games for the things that can be used as evidence.

A picture in the book means absolutely nothing unless there is some specific context to it or description that labels it as having such importance.

An example would be a picture in the Ultimania book under the Title of "Couples in Final Fantasy" and having a picture of Cloud and Tifa or Cloud and Aerith under it, with the description explaining either the relationship or what key moment in the picture is being depicted of the couple

A random nice looking picture in a book with zero explanation or context lined up alongside other random ass pictures, or a Final Fantasy VII banner depicting the characters faces on it hung up at a random convention SE decided to attend somewhere is not proof of a canon romantic ship or anything of the sort. It's far more likely some poor Graphics Designer at the company was given a bunch of useable assets and was told to select some nice pictures for the book or told to throw together a quick 5 minute banner ready to be printed off for the convention.

If people think the likes of the dev team are carefully combing over every piece of marketing and merch material just to make sure it all aligns with the story they want to tell to in exact detail then I really do have a bridge to sell people. At that point let's talk about Ever Crisis then and how they're always selling outfits between Zack and Aerith that match and putting them together in marketing, or let's talk about a random ass Pepsi Cup from 1997 that has Cloud and Aerith default pose jpegs on it which must mean they are teasing everyone who the main love couple is.

Come on
 
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