SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

I think it's even more complicated than even that and might have links to the very nature of cosmology in Final Fantasy and how there's supposed to be a crystal at the heart of every world/ reality and how everything is linked via the interdimensional rift. I think Sephiroth is attempting to pull an Ultimecia style move laterally.

Honestly maybe you're right but I'm not well versed enough into that kind of lore. Personally, as an FFVII fan, I feel they need to explain:

• the Promise Land
• how did Zack survive until ACC

And Aerith having her Promise Land in between our world and the Lifestream (as I assume all Cetras would have in the past) would explain both in a pretty neat way. And I mean all those churches were destroyed until the last standing one, once "our" Aerith died: a CC-like church.
For Sephiroth, I could see him pull what you said completely but I'd grumble that they didn't explain the Zack not melting into the LS and PL when they had the chance to. But it could also be a mix of both theories, which could be interesting; it's very clear that Sephiroth, refusing to die, is trying to pull something bigger than just Meteor, IMHO.

I mean wouldn't showing the CT dates also be good marketing strategy?

I mean in the end, it's a Aerith game and the whole marketing has been anchored around that. To me it's natural that it continues that way? Even if I feel they seriously botched their PR for a game that was so easily marketable. Next game we'll probably have a lot of Tifa-centric PR too, which is natural since it's her part.

 

[nars305]

People are way too focused on this non-optional/optional thing.

Would be funny if in a couple days the Ultimania’s like “so yeah, all the dates are canon.”

I got the remake ultimania yesterday. I saw the rebirth one is supposed to be released on Friday. Can’t find any other information on it though. I’d figure it’d be advertised on their site or something.

Imagine in the ultimania there is just a big picture spread of the kiss…(pipe dream)

 

[Stiggie]

the Promise Land

I usually go for more personal interpretations of what the promised land is meant to be and I think that will always be valid, but I do think that the concept of "the promised land" is supposed to work on multiple levels, and if I had to take a guess at what the promised land will mean for the external story I think that after Rebirth I can.

With all the different timelines and Aerith warping people between them and doing all her weird shit, my guess is that Aerith will take us through all these alternate hypothetical universes and guide the story towards the most positive outcome. Making sure we walk the path between all the possible branches that ultimately leads to the one outcome where T̶h̶a̶n̶o̶s̶ I mean Sephiroth doesn't win.

 

[GamerSkull]

I got the remake ultimania yesterday. I saw the rebirth one is supposed to be released on Friday. Can’t find any other information on it though. I’d figure it’d be advertised on their site or something.

Imagine in the ultimania there is just a big picture spread of the kiss…(pipe dream)

It’s supposed to release on the 12th in Japan. So just a couple more days.

 

[Eerie]

I usually go for more personal interpretations of what the promised land is meant to be and I think that will always be valid, but I do think that the concept of "the promised land" is supposed to work on multiple levels, and if I had to take a guess at what the promised land will mean for the external story I think that after Rebirth I can.

With all the different timelines and Aerith warping people between them and doing all her weird shit, my guess is that Aerith will take us through all these alternate hypothetical universes and guide the story towards the most positive outcome. Making sure we walk the path between all the possible branches that ultimately leads to the one outcome where T̶h̶a̶n̶o̶s̶ I mean Sephiroth doesn't win.

As per the OG the Promise Land is specifically in the Lifestream, once Cetras died and left their harsh lives behind to find their land of supreme happiness.
It has also been described for Cloud as being his family - Tifa, Denzel and Marlene, so it’s not only a place, but can also be people. Oh hi Zack in the not suspiciously CC-like church!

 

[shady]

I think shippers on both sides of the aisle tend to overanalyze every little micro detail to try and lend creedence to the validity of their ship. However because of this it leads to absolute nothingburgers being chosen as absolute proof that the ship is valid. Again, not pointing any fingers because I believe both sides do this, however at the same time I believe one side does it more because there is less to go on, or there is more ambiguity in the games for the things that can be used as evidence.

A picture in the book means absolutely nothing unless there is some specific context to it or description that labels it as having such importance.

An example would be a picture in the Ultimania book under the Title of "Couples in Final Fantasy" and having a picture of Cloud and Tifa or Cloud and Aerith under it, with the description explaining either the relationship or what key moment in the picture is being depicted of the couple

A random nice looking picture in a book with zero explanation or context lined up alongside other random ass pictures, or a Final Fantasy VII banner depicting the characters faces on it hung up at a random convention SE decided to attend somewhere is not proof of a canon romantic ship or anything of the sort. It's far more likely some poor Graphics Designer at the company was given a bunch of useable assets and was told to select some nice pictures for the book or told to throw together a quick 5 minute banner ready to be printed off for the convention.

If people think the likes of the dev team are carefully combing over every piece of marketing and merch material just to make sure it all aligns with the story they want to tell to in exact detail then I really do have a bridge to sell people. At that point let's talk about Ever Crisis then and how they're always selling outfits between Zack and Aerith that match and putting them together in marketing, or let's talk about a random ass Pepsi Cup from 1997 that has Cloud and Aerith default pose jpegs on it which must mean they are teasing everyone who the main love couple is.

Come on

 

[insanehobbit]

Hell yeah, we're back to the two characters sharing a frame = canon couple era of this thread.

Let's not forget the true OTP of FF7, y'all:

 

[Ryushikaze]

Always remember that there is no Amano art of Cecil and Rosa before The After Years and IIRC still none for Squall and Rinoa.

 

[abzy1200]

Would be funny if in a couple days the Ultimania’s like “so yeah, all the dates are canon.”

They already are, they are meant to showcase Clouds relationship with every character.

So here again is my problem apparently the booklet for the soundtrack shows the CA scenes, why does marketing do this, wouldn't it be better to tell an honest story.

Forgive me if this is reaching, but it's probably because she just died. they're hardly going to market, for example, Tifa more than her because, well, Rebirth was supposed to be Aeriths time to shine, I guess?

We've talked before about the significance of the CT kiss, or that moment when Aerith admits to Cloud that she still loves Zack, as being clear and obvious evidence that the LTD is no more, but today I want to talk about the moment in Rebirth in which Clerith dies;

And then where exactly would they take it from there? Real Cloud would be apologetic and guilt-ridden about "playing SOLDIER" in the wake of Zack's death and Aerith would then be in a position of having to make Cloud feel better about all of that, which is pretty unfair to her. I don't see how their relationship could recover enough from all of that to enter a romantic relationship. Their friendship could bounce back, absolutely, but ... to be in a committed, loving relationship seems very unrealistic to me.

I feel like a Clerith relationship could never really work out because of this. Aerith still loves Zack, Cloud still loves Tifa, the only thing keeping Cloud and Aerith apart is the fact they love other people, and would have to work through A LOT of those feelings for a Clerith relationship to actually work out.

I 100% believe had the Nibelheim event not evented itself over everyone, Zack would have told Cloud to confess and reunite before everyone left.

He 100% would have! If I remember correctly Zack asks if Cloud has spoken to Tifa since they arrived at nibelheim, to which Cloud replies "No...." in a sad tone, to which Zack says "I'm sensing a lot of problems here".

There are no baits

There definitely was some baiting done with Rebirths marketing, especially that one scene where Aerith falls into Cloud on the gondola and it looked like they were going to kiss. But then they gave the kiss to Tifa, it feels kind of mean in retrospect lmao.

Now personally I hate this, because I absolutely LOATHE how Aeriths death has been twisted and perverted into some sick spectacle these days

I actually couldn't agree more. It has strayed so far from the original intention, what was originally supposed to portray feelings of "reality not Hollywood" now does exactly the opposite, and has been turned into one of the biggest spectacles in gaming. The whole point was that Aerith was just a girl who was murdered, because, forgive me if wrong, what exactly would change in ff7 had Aerith not died?

the Promise Land

Is the promised land not just the afterlife? when they return to the lifestream? I think that's what it means in a literal sense, but yeah I think it's also some sort of euphemism for a place or state of supreme happiness for a character. Especially Cloud, though, since the games like to remind you of both the "promised" land and also the fact that Cloud made a "promise" to Tifa, it's practically at the centre of his character.

 

[GamerSkull]

For the Cetra, I feel the Promised Land is undoubtedly the Lifestream.

But I think the game and compilation also presents that everyone has their own personal “Promised Land”, which for Cloud is Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene.

But in the final scene of the OG, Cloud is definitely referring to “what comes after” as the Promised Land.

 

[Ryushikaze]

"The Promised Land" is just how the Cetra referred to the lifestream.
As for how Zack manages to stay around for ACC, I guess it depends on if he's technically alive or dead, and how time passes for him. He seems to have been experiencing time at a different rate than the main plot.

They already are, they are meant to showcase Clouds relationship with every character.

Exactly. Regardless of whether or not they happened, per se, they all are accurate to Cloud etc.'s personalities.

He 100% would have! If I remember correctly Zack asks if Cloud has spoken to Tifa since they arrived at nibelheim, to which Cloud replies "No...." in a sad tone, to which Zack says "I'm sensing a lot of problems here".

Yeah, Zack wants to help Cloud connect with his special someone because he's a bro like that.

 

[GamerSkull]

"The Promised Land" is just how the Cetra referred to the lifestream.
As for how Zack manages to stay around for ACC, I guess it depends on if he's technically alive or dead, and how time passes for him. He seems to have been experiencing time at a different rate than the main plot.


Exactly. Regardless of whether or not they happened, per se, they all are accurate to Cloud etc.'s personalities.


Yeah, Zack wants to help Cloud connect with his special someone because he's a bro like that.

“You know, Cloud. You should totally talk to Tifa. It’s okay, I understand that you’re worried. Don’t be. I’m here. I’ll talk you up big time. She’ll be impressed for sure.”

He’d say something like that. He’d also say it with his superhero pose where he puts his hands on his hips.

 

[liuliuliu]

people should not use marketing material in a LTD discussion

 

[abzy1200]

people should not use marketing material in a LTD discussion

Yeah, if you have to search for arguments from stuff so far removed from the actual source material, it's probably a sign of something.

 

[nars305]

Yeah, if you have to search for arguments from stuff so far removed from the actual source material, it's probably a sign of something.

At least it’s from something as opposed to being from thin air. I’ll see one argument and think to myself well that’s an interesting take. Then I’ll see it several more times as it becomes a fact to certain people.

Me personally, my only basis for what I believe is the games and the novels. Anything else is a welcome little thing but the games and novels are what supersedes everything in my opinion. I suppose the ultimanias do shed light on the creators intentions though.

 

[Someonesbunny]

people should not use marketing material in a LTD discussion

But it's been two plus decades of seeing this ol' thing.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Considering it's my money I think I can discuss the marketing materials if I want (I get a bit ruffled when people tell me what I can and can't do heh unless you have actual authority)

Anyway it does somewhat make more sense to me now in this instance at least - apparently the version of NPTK that plays during the dream date is the One Last Date- My Dream instrumental - which yes can be about Zack and Cloud in this context but doubtful about everyone.

 

[Rin]

NPTK is a song Aerith wrote about leaving everyone she loves behind/having to say goodbye to everyone she loves. The instrumental version of the song is playing in her home, her sector, where the world is about to end and everyone is talking about death, funerals, and the end. It makes perfect sense that it plays there because it's Aerith's final time going home before she dies. It's a beautiful representation of "home is where the heart is" and the song switches over to Aerith's theme the minute you get to the church and it's just Cloud and Aerith by themselves.

 

[Yoru]

Anyway it does somewhat make more sense to me now in this instance at least - apparently the version of NPTK that plays during the dream date is the One Last Date- My Dream instrumental - which yes can be about Zack and Cloud in this context but doubtful about everyone.

Yes, that's the good thing with a song written for everyone. You still can use it whatever the context. Cloud being around or Aerith thinking about Zack (it's a date re-creation, so yeah he must be in some space of her mind) can justifiy the use of NPTK here.

Doesn't invalidate what Nojima said.

Nomura used the OST material to emphasize NPTK concept again :

"It represents a humble prayer made during the party’s epic journey."

And by the way, "cute" thing to note : In OG she says that she have to go to pray for HOLY and come back. But now with Rebirth we can hear her actual prayer. And what is it ? Just her asking to the Cetras how to protect her friends. Because that's what is important for her. Kinda the same as NPTK.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Considering it's my money I think I can discuss the marketing materials if I want (I get a bit ruffled when people tell me what I can and can't do heh unless you have actual authority)

I mean, you absolutely can discuss the marketing materials if you want. Most people are just letting you know that they will not be doing so Marketing is often misleading, for many reasons ranging from author/marketing disconnect to out and out lies to hide a surprise or twist. It's simply not reliable as a source for debate purposes. Hell if marketing could be taken seriously fewer people would feel "baited" by it, but since it doesn't match up with the actual story... well they feel baited

Anyway it does somewhat make more sense to me now in this instance at least - apparently the version of NPTK that plays during the dream date is the One Last Date- My Dream instrumental - which yes can be about Zack and Cloud in this context but doubtful about everyone.

I mean, the song was written for everyone, still feels like it's for everyone. Cloud may be the only one present there, but it's still time to say goodbye to everybody. Though I'll admit, a melody divorced from it's lyrics can sometimes have different context.

 

[Yoru]

View attachment 15468

But it's been two plus decades of seeing this ol' thing.

Again, she is a love interest in OG. She is designed to be one.

You can fall for her. The game even wants it (dialogue choice being : 1-Be nice / 2- Be a total dick)

Because they designed their CD1 as a giant Shock Effect.

And then you continue the game, you discover you weren't really playing Cloud all this time and that in a turn of event, he's in fact in love with Tifa from the begining of this story. A reciprocal love, whatever your level of affinity is.

And then we had 20 years of new material.

And now we have the Re-Trilogy who is pretty clear in its message : He has ROMANTIC feelings for only one person.

tl;dr : Yeah Square Soft didn't lie. Cloud loves Aerith. But Square Soft doesn't exist anymore because it has been 27 years. And things changed during this long period of time. It is time some people accept the truth.

 

[abzy1200]

Considering it's my money I think I can discuss the marketing materials if I want (I get a bit ruffled when people tell me what I can and can't do heh unless you have actual authority

The problem with using marketing material as evidence is that the marketing team is trying to sell the game, not tell a story. Not everything is negligible, mind you, but it should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I mean in the end, it's a Aerith game and the whole marketing has been anchored around that. To me it's natural that it continues that way? Even if I feel they seriously botched their PR for a game that was so easily marketable. Next game we'll probably have a lot of Tifa-centric PR too, which is natural since it's her part.

- They did it on last part though the state of play trailer CT date was especially showcase but Aerith's game is showcase everywhere in Evercrisis, in most of their rebirth trailers.

View attachment 15468

But it's been two plus decades of seeing this ol' thing.

I feel like gettin old your all kids ( YAY) lmao
Back in 97 marketting in different and SE has different plans on this one. This is marketed before release of the game in 97. They have to highlight it so people will play the game.

When you play the game you're supposed to understand the story. Problem in OG FF7 has a different way of story telling and I guess not all people understand the main point of the devs as many loop holes.

 

[Yoru]

I'm listening Rebirth OST and just found out they put Tifa's date theme first on the list.

Cloti confirmed CANON date. Rest is optional. Tifa won. End of the story.

(doesn't mean shit, just wanted to have fun and show how we can thorn the narrative when one want to make a point.)

 

[luminous03]

I'm listening Rebirth OST and just found out they put Tifa's date theme first on the list.

Cloti confirmed CANON date. Rest is optional. Tifa won. End of the story.

(doesn't mean shit, just wanted to have fun and show how we can thorn the narrative when one want to make a point.)

View attachment 15470

Btw i don't use neither Spotify nor apple music, so is there any place where i can or download the official ost, or has the official ost been updated in youtube ?