SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[abzy1200]

But yeah, probably still most known in the US.

Probably yeah, since I've never heard of it before aswell.

 

[GamerSkull]

Maybe @Ryushikaze was referring to another love triangle.

Archie, Betty and Veronica was just the one that came to my mind.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Even though the HW and Cait Sith scenes were "lost" we did get more Aerith and Cait Sith and Aerith and Cid in return, apart from maybe Vincent (unless there's side quest stuff I'm missing) and counting Remake I feel relatively fed with Aerith and her bonds with most of the party.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Back when I played the OG zack was my favorite because I loved his saiyan hair lol. Reminded me of raditz or something I imagined it so over the top, kinda miss that interpretation.

Remind me, which lt Is that again?

As Gamerskull said, Archie, Betty, Veronica. It's been ongoing since the late 40s. EDIT: Correction: Early 40s.

It's only really known in the US tho I think? I mean it vaguely triggers a memory but that's not something that was really aired here xD

I don't know any of these people lol

Probably yeah, since I've never heard of it before aswell.

What country are you from, out of curiosity?

Maybe @Ryushikaze was referring to another love triangle.

Archie, Betty and Veronica was just the one that came to my mind.

Nah, it was that one. I can't think of one that's endured as long and through so many adaptations.

 

[GamerSkull]

Imagine not getting a conclusive answer on a love triangle that started way back in the 40s.

Oof.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Imagine not getting a conclusive answer on a love triangle that started way back in the 40s.

Oof.

I think after 80 years, the conclusive answer must be "Archie has two hands."

 

[LNK]

Hopefully Part 3 ends all of this for good.

Doubtful. It'll never end for the extreme shippers. Those people are on their own planet

 

[GamerSkull]

Doubtful. It'll never end for the extreme shippers. Those people are on their own planet

Sure, but ends it for the most part.

At least there will be an end for most people.

 

[LNK]

Sure, but ends it for the most part.

At least there will be an end for most people.

Wouldn't you say it has already? Most people who go with the narrative, aren't exactly vocal about it. They have nothing to prove. The loud ones are the extreme shippers who just wanna argue

 

[GamerSkull]

Wouldn't you say it has already? Most people who go with the narrative, aren't exactly vocal about it. They have nothing to prove. The loud ones are the extreme shippers who just wanna argue

I would say there's probably a good percentage of people that it's already over for now. Yeah.

Plus, there are a few articles out now that essentially acknowledge its end.

I still think Part 3 will finally hammer it home though, because it's the end of the story as well.

 

[nars305]

I never want to speak too soon and have my statements age like milk but I think Part 3 will be similar in how people were insanely surprised by the kiss. Part 3 will be the nails in the coffin I think.

Then I can be at peace when I read strange takes because the proof will be in the pudding.

When I say strange takes I mean the hateful ones. I don’t like how the debate has some people say the worst things about Aerith and Tifa. All the characters are great.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

So I don't know if it's in the English only but I just finished the Promises To Keep sidequest and no spoilers on content but it's not about Aerith. It is all about Nanaki. So either the localization team just likes references in their titles or if it's in the same in JP then the theme of keeping promises is a universal theme for Rebirth and part of the vision for Rebirth. Just something to think about.

But yeah let's add that to another reason I never did think the EN translators cared about LTD. If they were really so into CA and biased I definitely don't think this would be their choice for a Nanaki quest of all things. Aerith isn't even mentioned. I think again promises are a big part of the theme as much as reunion.

Which does match to what the devs have been saying and is obviously a big part of Aerith's story themes but it encompasses the story beyond her as well.

 

[liuliuliu]

well, I would say if you ask a random gamer who played FF7 about the promise in this game, 90% of chance they will think you are taking about Cloud&Tifa’s promise…

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

well, I would say if you ask a random gamer who played FF7 about the promise in this game, 90% of chance they will think you are taking about Cloud&Tifa’s promise…

While that may be the case these themes are universal in FF7. Even OG had several promises in it. Also talk about reunion everywhere. Which makes me think that's why they showcased it so much with their main characters. But it was never just a main cast thing either if we take into consideration everything. More like they represented that theme of the game. And well Cloud and Tifa's iconic scenes are reflections of these themes of course because they're part of the main cast.

But like Promised Land too... And reunion it's pretty much everywhere when you sit down and think about it.

But I'm just the messenger and this was about Nanaki and promises. Promises To Keep is Aerith's song title so I figured oh is this Aerith's quest and nope. I think it's interesting but I also don't think it's coincidence.

So if it's not just a reference I think it makes sense to have promises as a theme because even reunion is a promise and well... promised land. It's a huge part of the story for all characters not just the main cast even.

But as I said the point is my make it about Nanaki shows me what I said. I don't think translators care about LTD. Fans do. And it colors our view.

Edit: Clarification added

 

[Stiggie]

From the Archie comics.

I instantly prefer the black haired one lol.
Anyway, yeah, I think I've seen that dude before, the name Archie does ring a bell now that I know it's a cartoon.

 

[GamerSkull]

I instantly prefer the black haired one lol.
Anyway, yeah, I think I've seen that dude before, the name Archie does ring a bell now that I know it's a cartoon.

From what I remember, Veronica (black haired girl) is the popular girl while Betty (blonde haired girl) is more down to earth.

It’s been ages since I read though so I may be misremembering.

 

[cgnVirtue]

Just woke up to twitter in shambles again. GOD I should take this as a sign to delete it.

Apparently, many extremists jp CA are demanding and uploading hashtag to delete tifa's UTH or add an optional scene with aerith. Nothing new here but it got me wandering, as far as i know ff7 community is kinda toxic so has it ever been a similar situation that where the developers "backpedal" (heck i dnt even if i spell it correctly) in order to fulfil fan's wishes, ik it has been discussed that no need to worry about lifestream scene, but the doubt has defeated me again about UTH

I (regrettably) just caught myself up with this.

At the end of the day this is a video game. It’s really not that serious. Imagine writing for a once in a lifetime game, a game that is being remade with love and care, putting your heart and soul into it just for people to be like “change _____ because we don’t like it” when the “it” in question is such a lovingly crafted sequence that is one of the favorites of the lead developers. How insulting is that? I’m so sick of this trend in general where art must bend for the feelings of others. Let creators create. Not everything should be made for everyone. If you don’t like something being expressed, it’s not hard to just… not consume it.

But I guess for those people now it’s that they don’t care if they win, they just want the other side to lose. But at that point are you really a fan anymore?

I have no doubt that part 3 will proceed as intended, Lifestream and Highwind included in all their glory and then some. But don’t these people get exhausted? I know I do. I just wanna talk about this video game that moved me, man.

 

[liuliuliu]

While that may be the case these themes are universal in FF7. Even OG had several promises in it. Also talk about reunion everywhere. Which makes me think that's why they showcased it so much with their main characters. But it was never just a main cast thing either if we take into consideration everything. More like they represented that theme of the game. And well Cloud and Tifa's iconic scenes are reflections of these themes of course because they're part of the main cast.

But like Promised Land too... And reunion it's pretty much everywhere when you sit down and think about it.

But I'm just the messenger and this was about Nanaki and promises. Promises To Keep is Aerith's song title so I figured oh is this Aerith's quest and nope. I think it's interesting but I also don't think it's coincidence.

So if it's not just a reference I think it makes sense to have promises as a theme because even reunion is a promise and well... promised land. It's a huge part of the story for all characters not just the main cast even.

But as I said the point is my make it about Nanaki shows me what I said. I don't think translators care about LTD. Fans do. And it colors our view.

Edit: Clarification added

It was called さまよう亡霊 wandering ghost. Nothing to do with promise at all. And this is correctly translated in other languages as well

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I can’t quote all of your posts regarding this because my post would be so long lol. But I like your view on shipping and I think it’s really healthy. It seems like work becoming bigger than the author is more common as time goes on, and I think it becomes overwhelming to try and rein it in for the creators. That’s why I think it’s brave of SE to try to do so after all these years. I wasn’t here for the ambiguity, so I can’t even imagine what it was like.

But I am glad that they’re trying to correct course now and express their true vision on the narrative and canon and relationships. I’ve mentioned this before but the LTD really hampers how I think people view the game and narrative. It’s not a dating sim, there’s an amazing story actually there. By removing the LTD in general, I think it invites more people to truly discuss the narrative in a productive way. For example, by accepting CT as canon, we can truly look at CA and how tragic it is. Not only that, but how it services both characters and why it makes sense that they were drawn to each other in the first place, and ultimately why it didn’t work out. Not why it should, not why it will, but why it didn’t. I think that might have been at least part of the point Cody Christian was trying to make too, because by searching for “ship legitimizing” material we can miss out on character motivations and what gives them depth.

If it’s not obvious, I’m CT lol. But that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate a lot about CA. For example, the parallels/similarities between Cloud and Aerith aren’t lost on me. Both of them lost their moms to Shinra. Zack, Cloud’s best friend and Aerith’s first boyfriend, died before getting back to Aerith by protecting Cloud. And then when they meet, Cloud can play hero and Aerith can play girlfriend (I’m greatly oversimplifying). While I personally don’t agree with how they deal with their traumas, given both of their experiences, I can’t exactly blame them for wanting to pretend, even for a little while. Life can be cruel, and if we need to pretend to get through the night sometimes then so be it. In a way they had exactly what each other needed at the time, and I think that’s part of what makes their relationship meaningful. They even come to really care for each other. I can also acknowledge that in the end, they can’t pretend forever. And that’s what makes their relationship tragic. It was doomed not to work because of what they really want/need. But it’s still an important relationship that both characters had nonetheless.

I guess my point is that even though you’re CA and I’m CT, because we both acknowledge canon, we’re not just looking through shipping goggles and can engage in productive conversation. And the sooner people just accept that the LTD is over the sooner we can start seriously discussing narratives, characters, and their relationships in greater detail.

Thank you. I appreciate your points as well. I do think it's a shame the LTD is such a focus because as you said there really is so much more we can talk about that makes the story so rich. But We (as in the fandom don't) we get stuck on the same things, the same scenes which when you look at the entire world of FF7 are very limited in comparison we just don't see that.

I think your analysis makes sense and what I find really compelling especially when you take into consideration how Cloud and Aerith fit in the story as seperate entities. As well as how the play is an allegory for acting out these roles, the hero and princess what they both wish they had basically. But sadly it just can't be. And what they wish for they already had with other people they just didn't realize it till later. Like Aerith probably realized later Zack never abandoned her.
Also they were both basically lab rats hurt by Shinra, both basically didn't have a normal childhood, both suck at social cues as a result, both had no friends except for like one person for Cloud two and are experiencing multiple bonds now. And they cherish those bonds so much because they know what it is to lose them. They also both put up a facade, Aerith masks her sorrow and fears behind a smiling face while Cloud masks behind a facade of thinking he is better or cooler and that he doesn't care as a kid and this is part of his persona. Aerith like Cloud also wants to protect others and so she accepts the role she really doesn't want for the sake of saving the Planet. Also for the sake of protecting Cloud "so you don't have a breakdown..." Switching from protected by him to protector. And he in turn helps her out and finishes her mission when she dies.
They can basically relate to eachother in more ways than it seems. In another story nothing would be strange about people shipping them. This is just not another story. And people really just need to accept that that's fine if it's not. Because in the story we did get both learn to cherish every moment and eachother anyway. Their bond is fine as it is. I don't need to ask for more.

It was called さまよう亡霊 wandering ghost. Nothing to do with promise at all. And this is correctly translated in other languages as well

That's even more interesting. So yep it's just a reference. And I hope now people stop with the "EN translation is sooo bias" to either ship because to me it is very very clearly not. Any secret Clerith staff would have named that quest literally anything else because it would seem like it is trolling people who thought it was about Aerith or think of it as CA's song to reference something unrelated. And Nanaki of all characters.

There are parts they changed for CA too in EN like Cloud saying he'd wait for her is gone or he's bad at dates is changed to I wish you wouldn't, hey says it's your funeral when challenging her to Queensblood too not the most pro CA choice of words etc.

As well as stuff that is different for CT but then Midgar Blues in EN which is extremely pro CT referring to true love even was translated by very the same translators accused of being biased. And all this plus this reference just shows me they don't lean to any one side their changes probably have zero to do with LTD honestly.

I think though maybe they do maybe like to troll and put references everywhere.

Any way as an update I found the actual Aerith quest. Absence Of A Sign.

 

[liuliuliu]

The entire game in my opinion is a mock to people who like Aerith by ruining her death scene. Hopefully they will fix this in pt3.
Honestly I do think the most important moment for Aerith in Og is her death scene.
Aerith is in my top 10 JRPG heroine list. I like her, but not because I like her personality (her personality doesn’t stand out to me), but because I like the weight she added to the plot. For me she would be the ordinary heroine in any other JRPGs/Manga/Anime for me if she didn't die.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

The entire game in my opinion is a mock to people who like Aerith by ruining her death scene. Hopefully they will fix this in pt3.
Honestly I do think the most important moment for Aerith in Og is her death scene.
Aerith is in my top 10 JRPG heroine list. I like her, but not because I like her personality (her personality doesn’t stand out to me), but because I like the weight she added to the plot. For me she would be the ordinary heroine in any other JRPGs/Manga/Anime for me if she didn't die.

I have not gotten there yet but I think it's just another example of how the vision of creators can greatly differ from visions of fans. I don't think they tried to ruin it, nor are mocking Aerith fans with it. they just wanted it to have the same impact of shock as in OG and thus changed it up. Probably for the worse I am sure as it's such a delicate scene to change and it's exactly what I was worried would happen. But let's see what they do with it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I instantly prefer the black haired one lol.
Anyway, yeah, I think I've seen that dude before, the name Archie does ring a bell now that I know it's a cartoon.

From what I remember, Veronica (black haired girl) is the popular girl while Betty (blonde haired girl) is more down to earth.

It’s been ages since I read though so I may be misremembering.

Betty is the girl next door while Veronica is the rich girl. They are best friends and romantic rivals. Personally I tend to prefer Josie and Sabrina comics to standard Archie, but it's all absurd.

 

[LNK]

The entire game in my opinion is a mock to people who like Aerith by ruining her death scene.

Do you genuinely, from your heart think this?

You really think they'd add to her death scene, just to mock Aerith fans?

No disrespect, but that's a very self centered pov. I get it's your opinion, but damn.

 

[Yoru]

And I hope now people stop with the "EN translation is sooo bias" to either ship because to me it is very very clearly not. Any secret Clerith staff would have named that quest literally anything else because it would seem like it is trolling people who thought it was about Aerith or think of it as CA's song to reference something unrelated. And Nanaki of all characters.

There are parts they changed for CA too in EN like Cloud saying he'd wait for her is gone or he's bad at dates is changed to I wish you wouldn't, hey says it's your funeral when challenging her to Queensblood too not the most pro CA choice of words etc.

As well as stuff that is different for CT but then Midgar Blues in EN which is extremely pro CT referring to true love even was translated by very the same translators accused of being biased. And all this plus this reference just shows me they don't lean to any one side their changes probably have zero to do with LTD honestly.

The problem is not about EN localization being biased for one of the ship. The problem is that they put "LTD" stuff where there is nothing in the original, just to fuel the war.

I can give you examples, there's a ton honestly.

They just can't help themselves adding romance stuff that will sadly find the wrong echo in some places of the fandom.

 

[liuliuliu]

Do you genuinely, from your heart think this?

You really think they'd add to her death scene, just to mock Aerith fans?

No disrespect, but that's a very self centered pov. I get it's your opinion, but damn.

Yes I do. But it doesn’t mean I don’t like the game though. I like Aerith but she is not my favorite in the game. Her death scene is important but not so important to me.
Mock might not be the correct word though. I use it cause someone said translators are mocking CA.
It is the feeling where they all know what fans want but they will not show that because it is kept as a cliffhanger.
“Do you want to see her death scene? You have to play pt3” that is what I think about her death in rebirth.