SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Makoeyes987]

Just woke up to twitter in shambles again. GOD I should take this as a sign to delete it.

Apparently, many extremists jp CA are demanding and uploading hashtag to delete tifa's UTH or add an optional scene with aerith. Nothing new here but it got me wandering, as far as i know ff7 community is kinda toxic so has it ever been a similar situation that where the developers "backpedal" (heck i dnt even if i spell it correctly) in order to fulfil fan's wishes, ik it has been discussed that no need to worry about lifestream scene, but the doubt has defeated me again about UTH

What the fuck, is this real?

This actually has happened?

Goddamn, I think we've hit a new nadir here as a fandom.

 

[Hellenic]

The problem is not about EN localization being biased for one of the ship. The problem is that they put "LTD" stuff where there is nothing in the original, just to fuel the war.

I can give you examples, there's a ton honestly.

They just can't help themselves adding romance stuff that will sadly find the wrong echo in some places of the fandom.

There definitely are some LTD fuel like stuff in there, but it doesn't bother me a whole lot. Overall i think the EN script is just fine at conveying what it needs to.

 

[Ryeleigh]

This is an important part of understanding localization vs transcreation (the latter of which SE uses for translating into EN).
Transcreation is about mimicking a feeling (in addition to the meaning). So, for example, the reason they changed Tifa's cats name from Maru to Fluffy in English is because 'Maru' is a stereotypical/generic name for a cat in Japan--quite literally like naming a cat 'Fluffy' in English. The generic aspect of the name wouldn't come across to us English speakers if they had just left it as 'Maru'.

I just wanted to say, yay, I remembered the Maru thing right, lol.

 

[rkss]

How would a highwind scene with aerith work? Everyone goes back to their family for one last time, Cloud and Tifa have nowhere to go but Aerith does.
Uhm so are they going to kill Emlyra? or Aerith just "fuck my, stepmom. Never liked her anyway" because uh romance is main drive force of ff7?

Or do we have minigames do decide which family to kill so everyone could potential has a highwind scene with cloud?

 

[GamerSkull]

How would a highwind scene with aerith work? Everyone goes back to their family for one last time, Cloud and Tifa have nowhere to go but Aerith does.
Uhm so are they going to kill Emlyra? or Aerith just "fuck my, stepmom. Never liked her anyway" because uh romance is main drive force of ff7?

Or do we have minigames do decide which family to kill so everyone could potential has a highwind scene with cloud?

Plus, then Tifa would literally just be alone on the potential final night of her life.

That would be so sad.

 

[Eerie]

What the fuck, is this real?

This actually has happened?

Goddamn, I think we've hit a new nadir here as a fandom.

They also said they would make a scene with Aerith instead and give her all Tifa's line. They're supposed to like clerith, not cloti lol but yeah there's a certain part of this fandom that definitely does get that sex happens under the Highwind lol.

@Ryushikaze France here, I think they aired like one season, I don't even remember what decade that was (probably the 2000's because everything before was pretty much anime). I think I saw a few episodes but that was it lol.

 

[Hellenic]

Plus, then Tifa would literally just be alone on the potential final night of her life.

That would be so sad.

That would be the worst thing to do for Tifa after everything that has happened.

 

[Hellenic]

They also said they would make a scene with Aerith instead and give her all Tifa's line. They're supposed to like clerith, not cloti lol but yeah there's a certain part of this fandom that definitely does get that sex happens under the Highwind lol.

I'm starting to get a little pissed off about all this genuinely. These people need to fuck off and find something else to enjoy instead of trying to ruin things for everyone else.

 

[nars305]

I could be wrong and it could of course be argued that the experience is part of the game and that taking the audience into account and not "just the art" is part of what makes a game a game, but still.

This is what I figure.

It’s one thing to express your art, but I think games are more immersive and player’s desires do carry some weight in decisions. Especially since at the end of the day *it is business as well.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm starting to get a little pissed off about all this genuinely. These people need to fuck off and find something else to enjoy instead of trying to ruin things for everyone else.

If it’s any consolation, it means they’ve essentially admitted that Cloti is canon. Why else would there be clamor for changing a pivotal scene?

 

[nars305]

yeah there's a certain part of this fandom that definitely does get that sex happens under the Highwind lol.

If I had to be brutally honest, and my ignorance can be based on not playing the OG, but from what I saw I don’t see how what made it in the game hinted at sex. Unless they rolled around on the grass. I do know about the Chocobo stable cut scene or whatever.

HOWEVER…I mean what she says is risqué, and then I think about how they did put in Cloud specifically reacting to Tifa’s breast…I can almost see a Jill and Clive happening.

Sometimes I’m still surprised they made Cloud react in such a way to her bathing suit.

 

[Eerie]

If I had to be brutally honest, and my ignorance can be based on not playing the OG, but from what I saw I don’t see how what made it in the game hinted at sex. Unless they rolled around on the grass.

The line is defined as risqué (followed by a fade to black too!) but moreover on next day she completely collapses when she realises the team saw them (at least partly lol). This of course doesn't happen in the LA version. Yuffie also makes a comment about how unusually kind Cloud is. There are big hints to say that yes, it happened.

 

[GamerSkull]

It’s sort of implied, I guess.

But even if there’s no sex, there is definitely clear romantic undertones in that scene regardless of affinity. Which is all that matters.

As for Part 3, I can see it being a kiss, followed by fade to black, with maybe a suggestive implication.

 

[Ryushikaze]

While I want to agree with this I do often find myself wondering if developers really feel that way about their games these days, or if it's just work. Because sometimes they make decisions that make me feel like the fans venerate their work a lot more than they themselves do. If we just stick with the "asking for them to change things" thing. No one ever asked for any change as invasive as inserting plot ghosts and fighting the manifestation of fate itself.
Usually those things are justified with stuff like "I wanted the player to experience something new" or something like that, which makes me feel that they themselves don't really value the timelessness of their product. I could be wrong and it could of course be argued that the experience is part of the game and that taking the audience into account and not "just the art" is part of what makes a game a game, but still. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am doubtful that a person who is making something that they revere would do something like make Wedges every second line a fat joke.

...hmmm.... I was gonna say you wouldn't see Tolkien do something like that but I suppose the hobbits sort of prove me wrong....DAMNIT IT, still different though XD

Tolkien loved dumb jokes of all sorts.
I mean, even shakespeare made sex and fart jokes.

What the fuck, is this real?

This actually has happened?

Goddamn, I think we've hit a new nadir here as a fandom.

I mean, yes and no? On the one hand this is certainly a novel bit of missing the goddamn point, on the other hand, no, this is exactly what I've come to expect from the wackier Cleriths lo these last 20 years and more.

They also said they would make a scene with Aerith instead and give her all Tifa's line. They're supposed to like clerith, not cloti lol but yeah there's a certain part of this fandom that definitely does get that sex happens under the Highwind lol.

"Let's take a scene we decry as not being romantic, and give to to Aerith! So it'll be romantic!" They're all but admitting C/T is canon and their only real objection to it is color pallette.

@Ryushikaze France here, I think they aired like one season, I don't even remember what decade that was (probably the 2000's because everything before was pretty much anime). I think I saw a few episodes but that was it lol.

That would be Riverdale, yes. Anyways I asked because I know Archie comics got translated and spread all around. There was apparently an Indian version that came out last year. EDIT TO ADD: Indian Live Action Television version, that is.

If it’s any consolation, it means they’ve essentially admitted that Cloti is canon. Why else would there be clamor for changing a pivotal scene?

They admit in their actions what they vociferously deny. There's a poetry in that.

What gets me from a lot of the Clerith fandom is that they seem to have this brainbug, spoken or not, that Aerith is the nice girl and Tifa is the bad girl for... I don't honestly know why, when in actuality if anyone is "the bad girl" of the group it's Yuffie, and that's stretching things.

 

[GamerSkull]

They admit in their actions what they vociferously deny. There's a poetry in that.

What gets me from a lot of the Clerith fandom is that they seem to have this brainbug, spoken or not, that Aerith is the nice girl and Tifa is the bad girl for... I don't honestly know why, when in actuality if anyone is "the bad girl" of the group it's Yuffie, and that's stretching things.

Yeah, the claim that it’s not romantic, but also that it should be given to Aerith seems like they’ve capitulated to the common interpretation of that scene.

I certainly understand preferring Aerith. I don’t understand mischaracterizing Tifa to be a bad person though. And to take away a scene that is specific to her. Because the truth is… if Cloud spends that night with anyone else, he is essentially giving Tifa the cold shoulder as she will be spending what could be her last night alive alone and unfulfilled.

Cloud is just not the type to do that.

 

[abzy1200]

They admit in their actions what they vociferously deny. There's a poetry in that.

Every Clerith accusation is actually a confession

 

[Eerie]

I certainly understand preferring Aerith. I don’t understand mischaracterizing Tifa to be a bad person though. And to take away a scene that is specific to her. Because the truth is… if Cloud spends that night with anyone else, he is essentially giving Tifa the cold shoulder as she will be spending what could be her last night alive alone and unfulfilled.

It's basically them asking for a TW3, which when you take the Triss route, it's exceptionally obvious that you should not take this route and that it's made only to please fans lol.

 

[GamerSkull]

It's basically them asking for a TW3, which when you take the Triss route, it's exceptionally obvious that you should not take this route and that it's made only to please fans lol.

But the problem is, scene wouldn’t work in the same context.

Aerith still has Elmyra to go to like someone said earlier in this thread. And if she chooses to stay with Cloud, she’ll either be third wheeling his alone time with Tifa or Tifa will be left all alone.

Cloud and Tifa have nobody else, and that’s why they are together in that scene.

Because they have each other.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, the claim that it’s not romantic, but also that it should be given to Aerith seems like they’ve capitulated to the common interpretation of that scene.

I certainly understand preferring Aerith. I don’t understand mischaracterizing Tifa to be a bad person though. And to take away a scene that is specific to her. Because the truth is… if Cloud spends that night with anyone else, he is essentially giving Tifa the cold shoulder as she will be spending what could be her last night alive alone and unfulfilled.

Cloud is just not the type to do that.

I'd also like to think Aerith isn't that type either, evens setting aside Elmyra.

Every Clerith accusation is actually a confession

Y'know, there've been a few for whom that's definitely true.

It's basically them asking for a TW3, which when you take the Triss route, it's exceptionally obvious that you should not take this route and that it's made only to please fans lol.

It's more than that. It's like a Triss Route where they make love on the back of a stuffed Unicorn.

But the problem is, scene wouldn’t work in the same context.

Aerith still has Elmyra to go to like someone said earlier in this thread. And if she chooses to stay with Cloud, she’ll either be third wheeling his alone time with Tifa or Tifa will be left all alone.

Cloud and Tifa have nobody else, and that’s why they are together in that scene.

Because they have each other.

I mean, it's not just because they have no one else. It's not that they're consolation prizes for each other. You aren't wrong they have no one else, but they're also the person the other most would want to be with anyways.

 

[GamerSkull]

I mean, it's not just because they have no one else. It's not that they're consolation prizes for each other. You aren't wrong they have no one else, but they're also the person the other most would want to be with anyways.

Yes, you’re right. I mostly meant it that way but didn’t word it properly.

 

[Yoru]

While I want to agree with this I do often find myself wondering if developers really feel that way about their games these days, or if it's just work. Because sometimes they make decisions that make me feel like the fans venerate their work a lot more than they themselves do. If we just stick with the "asking for them to change things" thing. No one ever asked for any change as invasive as inserting plot ghosts and fighting the manifestation of fate itself.
Usually those things are justified with stuff like "I wanted the player to experience something new" or something like that, which makes me feel that they themselves don't really value the timelessness of their product. I could be wrong and it could of course be argued that the experience is part of the game and that taking the audience into account and not "just the art" is part of what makes a game a game, but still. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am doubtful that a person who is making something that they revere would do something like make Wedges every second line a fat joke.

...hmmm.... I was gonna say you wouldn't see Tolkien do something like that but I suppose the hobbits sort of prove me wrong....DAMNIT IT, still different though XD

Developers are creative people.

There's nothing worse for a creative person than to copy the same thing they created over 20 years ago. It's simply depressing. That's why this remake project will never be a 1:1 representation.

It's just part of the process when you're an artist.

There definitely are some LTD fuel like stuff in there, but it doesn't bother me a whole lot. Overall i think the EN script is just fine at conveying what it needs to.

What bothers me the most to be honnest is the need to change something without respecting the source material.

Best example is the Barret flashback where they changed his reasons to trust Shinra.

1- It changes the whole psychology of the character
2- It doesn't make sense and create a big plot hole

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I'd also like to think Aerith isn't that type either, evens setting aside Elmyra.

Truth

Y'know, there've been a few for whom that's definitely true.

More truth.

It's more than that. It's like a Triss Route where they make love on the back of a stuffed Unicorn.

I was unaware that Triss was the Pyro Yes I know Pyro is associated with the Baloonicorn which is not stuffed, the joke still flies for me but in honor of our Admiral I'll go ahead and get the pedantry for it out of the way now

I mean, it's not just because they have no one else. It's not that they're consolation prizes for each other. You aren't wrong they have no one else, but they're also the person the other most would want to be with anyways.

Exactly this. The fact that neither has a hometown or other people to visit is vital, but not because they're each other's consolation prizes. It's because, having nowhere else to go leaves them alone together. Combine that with their awareness of their possible impending death, and you get two awkward, shy people finally getting up the resolve to confess their mutual feelings. And, being as that even now they're too shy to actually say the words, it gives them the privacy to express it without them. Or so they thought at least

In the OG at least, I really don't think they'd have found the guts otherwise. After Rebirth's version of the GS date I'm less certain they couldn't find a way, but it'd still help

 

[LNK]

Because sometimes they make decisions that make me feel like the fans venerate their work a lot more than they themselves do.

I think the suits do things like that. Not the people actually creating the game

 

[LNK]

It's just part of the process when you're an artist.

Exactly. I wonder of those that complain about this stuff, how many actually understand the creative process of creating art

 

[Rin]

Developers are creative people.

There's nothing worse for a creative person than to copy the same thing they created over 20 years ago. It's simply depressing. That's why this remake project will never be a 1:1 representation.

It's just part of the process when you're an artist.

Yeah as a writer, I'd genuinely hate rewriting the exact same shit I wrote 27 years ago.
It'd be such a soul killer.