SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

I honestly suspect there's some form of transference going on. They dislike her because her looks remind them of someone or some idea they have of women who look like that, since it's nothing like the Tifa we know of in the games and film.


Yes, Cali has said that. She just hated Tifa more and saw Aerith as the least bad option for Cloud. I suspect she was a self inserter, though you have to wonder why with how bad a person her Cloud was when you looked at him in the bigger picture.


It helps balance their screen presence, yeah.


Danke.


What was that argument out of curiosity?


I'm trying to remember the affection scoresheet. Was it that really terrible set of JPGs that came out around AC or am I thinking of something else?


Those are good points, yes. The color scheme and material fit Tifa more than either other lady.


This isn't the place for it exactly, but this reminds me, does anyone else think Aerith's final staff in Rebirth is actually a Cetra laser rifle of some sort?


If you mean this forum, as far as I recall, I never explicitly banned her, merely every single one of her dupes. If not this one, which other one was she caught at?


Do I need to break out Water Tower Baby Denzel again for these people?


I've noticed in my traipse back through time that what BB didn't recite from the pre-written spiels was often attempts to throw my words back at me. Like her repeated use of "common sense" was echoing my usage of it at her from almost a decade prior. I had forgotten it. She had not. Amazing to live rent free in someone's head like that.


In a romantic sense, I love the "What, X doesn't like me!" "Oh yes X does" -SUDDEN SHOCK OF REALIZATION AS YEARS OF INTERACTIONS RECONTEXTUALIZE- type twist. Like how Amy thinks Rory would be the perfect boyfriend for her but she thinks he's gay because he's never shown interest in a woman and he's always hanging around with her and OH"


There's also the "push them away so I don't hurt them either" part, which is what takes him from antisocial to empathetic in a twisted wounded way.


You're the devil they know. I, on the other hand...


Aye. I need to go back and finish that remaster, come to think of it.


Agreed.


She's legitimately gotten worse over time.


No hesitation, no remorse, just good times.


I remember some time ago one of them admitted that she's never played the original game and still thought she knew the characters better than anyone else.


Even Maiden isn't good for C/A. Aerith calls up Zack trying to remember the things that made cloud Unique (oops) and even as she 'rejects' Zack her lines are awful flirty, and Aerith herself gives Cloud and Tifa her blessing during the course of the story.


I think this might be what's happening? Future Aerith, what people are calling Omni-Aerith might be trying to pull a sneaky with timelines just so she can give her other self and Zack a happy ending.

What’s the Water Tower Baby Denzel thing?

Also I still don’t understand this blue baby thing but whatever. Half-Cetra children I guess.

 

[nars305]

What’s the Water Tower Baby Denzel thing?

Also I still don’t understand this blue baby thing but whatever. Half-Cetra children I guess.

I’m debating if I want to know what this is/look into what it is…

 

[Hellenic]

Man, this makes me believe that some of these people don’t actually understand Cloud’s character at all. Even the ones who purport to love him so much that they hate Tifa for treating him like shit. More accurately, they don’t understand any of the characters.

There definitely are shippers who just want to self insert themselves in there too, so they don't necessarily want to even care to understand the characters. I've seen Clotis who don't like Cloud all that much and Cleriths who don't like Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

What’s the Water Tower Baby Denzel thing?

Also I still don’t understand this blue baby thing but whatever. Half-Cetra children I guess.

Water Tower Baby Denzel was a shitpost mockery of arguments that both Sora and Denzel looked like Cloud and Aerith's child and that was evidence they were the intended pairing. Jumping off the fact that his biological parents look a lot like the generic versions of Cloud and Tifa (same hair color and everything) there's the fact that his age almost perfectly lines up being born around a year after the confession on the water tower in Nibelheim.

I took these facts to spin a yarn- noting at every stage it was baseless and crackpot, mind you - that Denzel was in fact actually Cloud and Tifa's biological son, conceived that night when the promise was made, given up for adoption to a childless couple in Midgar who promised to give him a good home, and eventually being returned to his birth parents after the plate fell. I finished it up by noting that as shit as it was it still made so much more sense than the "He's Cloud and Aeirth's child" theories did, among other things. I'd have to go try and find the original post again.

 

[GamerSkull]

Water Tower Baby Denzel was a shitpost mockery of arguments that both Sora and Denzel looked like Cloud and Aerith's child and that was evidence they were the intended pairing. Jumping off the fact that his biological parents look a lot like the generic versions of Cloud and Tifa (same hair color and everything) there's the fact that his age almost perfectly lines up being born around a year after the confession on the water tower in Nibelheim.

I took these facts to spin a yarn- noting at every stage it was baseless and crackpot, mind you - that Denzel was in fact actually Cloud and Tifa's biological son, conceived that night when the promise was made, given up for adoption to a childless couple in Midgar who promised to give him a good home, and eventually being returned to his birth parents after the plate fell. I finished it up by noting that as shit as it was it still made so much more sense than the "He's Cloud and Aeirth's child" theories did, among other things. I'd have to go try and find the original post again.

Weird thing is, Denzel has no idea who Aerith is and sees Tifa as his mom. So in this equation, wouldn’t Aerith be the departed mom and Tifa the new stepmom that the son develops a better connection to?

Marlene is a better example (but can’t be used for obvious reasons) as they depict her with a bow similar to Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Weird thing is, Denzel has no idea who Aerith is and sees Tifa as his mom. So in this equation, wouldn’t Aerith be the departed mom and Tifa the new stepmom that the son develops a better connection to?

I mean, his mom is his departed mom, but I get what you mean.

Marlene is a better example (but can’t be used for obvious reasons) as they depict her with a bow similar to Aerith.

Even then the devs have said she's more like a mix of elements of Aerith and Tifa, so that's Aerti confirmed yet again.

 

[Hellenic]

Do I need to break out Water Tower Baby Denzel again for these people?

Now i'm curious. Don't think i've ever heard of this one .

 

[Stiggie]

I actually backread a lot of the early pages of this thread in the past when i was still an accountless lurker and said person kept going on circles with the same statements over and over without acknowledging anything that came their way. It was definitely a weird way to go about this whole thing.

The old guard yeah, but they'll never change, at best they'll move on. But it would be very hard to gain new members that would be of the "yeah I know cloti is canon, I just personally enjoy the idea of clerith", which I am fine with. Honestly, they might be the people who eventually fi ish this "fight". Cleriths like sakura who like aerith and cloud but just want to enjoy it without people pretending it's canon

 

[Stiggie]

On the Cloti kiss fanservice date canonity:

I never buy it when someone tries to discredit the date scenes, just because they're optional or not part of the main narrative. It's like hypothetically when Cloud tells his kids how he met their mother (bad pun intended), he tells them that "Ah, and I went with Tifa/Aerith/Yuffie/Barret/Red/the guys on the skywheel. Those were fun times." and nothing more. It happened, but had no consequence on how the story goes.

Also, everything that's in the game is tgere for a reason. They're not putting something there just to say that it's never happens, it's there for a reason. Namely to give us more context on Cloud's feelings, or some more tidbits to understand the story more.

One last thing:
I always laughed when someone brought up the OG saying that it's harder to get Tifa's date (which is not), saying that it is proof of it not being canon. Well, getting a game's true ending is always hard, but no one says that it's not canon because it's not easy to get...

It's canon that tifa kicked jules' ass in the gym...so yeah, canon isn't always easy XD

 

[Stiggie]

What was that argument out of curcuriosity

They were arguing that "even though they were cloti", that Cloud absolutely hated tifa and that that's why he treated her as such in AC. That he was miserable with tifa and would have been happy had she died. More nonsense like that.
This argument went on for over 200 replies, I brought up quotes, examples, everything. I sketched complex hypotheticals to try and guide them step by step to why someone might act in such a way, asking them for agreement on every step. But they were so intellectually bankrupt that they wouldn't even engage with the hypothetical since when I asked to to admit to a single point they'd respond with. "No, because I think what you're actually trying to get me to do is admit that Cloud doesn't hate Tifa, but I already showed you he does, my evidence is AC".

It was this encounter that finally convinced me that clerith was an actual cult. I have never seen a more perfect example of intellectual fanaticism. An explicit unwillingness to engage in hypotheticals or to think because doing either of those things may lead to a conclusion you don't want to admit. It was hell.

Even Maiden isn't good for C/A. Aerith calls up Zack trying to remember the things that made cloud Unique (oops)

I will say one thing that could be argued here by cleriths that they never do since that would require the ability to think. Loathe as I am to give them fuel.

It could be argued that the thing that wakes up Zack isn't that the image Aerith imagines is essentially that of Zack and resonates with his spirit, but that aerith does think of Cloud and that is what causes Zack to awake since Zack knows Cloud and recognizes that image.

 

[GamerSkull]

They were arguing that "even though they were cloti", that Cloud absolutely hated tifa and that that's why he treated her as such in AC. That he was miserable with tifa and would have been happy had she died. More nonsense like that.
This argument went on for over 200 replies, I brought up quotes, examples, everything. I sketched complex hypotheticals to try and guide them step by step to why someone might act in such a way, asking them for agreement on every step. But they were so intellectually bankrupt that they wouldn't even engage with the hypothetical since when I asked to to admit to a single point they'd respond with. "No, because I think what you're actually trying to get me to do is admit that Cloud doesn't hate Tifa, but I already showed you Henderson, my evidence is AC".

It was this encounter that finally convinced me that clerith was an actual cult. I have never seen a more perfect example of intellectual fanaticism. An explicit unwillingness to engage in hypotheticals or to think because doing either of those things may lead to a conclusion you don't want to admit. It was hell.




I will say one thing that could be argued here by cleriths that they never do since that would require the ability to think. Loathe as I am to give them fuel.

It could be argued that the thing that wakes up Zack isn't that the image Aerith images is essentially that of Zack and resonates with his spirit, but that aerith does think of Cloud and that ita the image of zack that shakes him awake since Zack knows Cloud and recognizes that image.

Tbh whenever someone’s says “I’m [label] but…” and then proceeds to give an opinion/argument that contradicts that label, it typically means that they aren’t actually that but are prefacing with it as to avoid being accused of bias.

This has been my experience with several other debates in different fandoms.

 

[Hellenic]

Even Maiden isn't good for C/A. Aerith calls up Zack trying to remember the things that made cloud Unique (oops) and even as she 'rejects' Zack her lines are awful flirty, and Aerith herself gives Cloud and Tifa her blessing during the course of the story.

Makes it even weirded that they use this as evidence. Guess it's the usual "let's not give the full context out here" things.

 

[billy22]

The ultimania didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know.

If they absolutely nail Mideel to the Lifestream sequence it’ll be undeniable. No kiss needed.

What are the odds this takes place in Corel now? Seemed like that scene with the doctor there, about the clones and brain damage, was foreshadowing.

 

[GamerSkull]

The ultimania didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know.



What are the odds this takes place in Corel now? Seemed like that scene with the doctor there, about the clones and brain damage, was foreshadowing.

Possible, but I’m sure they can contrive a way for him to show up at Mideel. Maybe one of the things Tifa and Cid can do as party members (to give them more time to be party leaders) is to get the doctor and bring him to Mideel to see if he can help Cloud.

 

[GamerSkull]

@Ryushikaze @Gym Leader Devil

Noticed the both of you talking about Squall earlier. I personally don’t like him much because he comes off as a legit asshole in a lot of way, although I’m open to that being due to localization. Even as I get older, I just can’t get myself to like him. His talk with Quistis in particular. I understand why he does these things but there is a way to keep your distance from people without being… well, an ass.

I do like his Kingdom Hearts counterpart though.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

There definitely are shippers who just want to self insert themselves in there too, so they don't necessarily want to even care to understand the characters. I've seen Clotis who don't like Cloud all that much and Cleriths who don't like Aerith.

I think this specific dichotomy sort of makes sense, especially depending on which specific canon materials you consume...my partner has never played the OG and only watched AC, so they really didn't like Cloud. Also, this is obviously part of the rug-pull, but I can understand being more attracted to SOLDIER!Cloud over real!Cloud as a matter of preference.

This isn't the place for it exactly, but this reminds me, does anyone else think Aerith's final staff in Rebirth is actually a Cetra laser rifle of some sort?

Yeah, it looks like some sort of Cetran glaive-rifle lol.

Possible, but I’m sure they can contrive a way for him to show up at Mideel. Maybe one of the things Tifa and Cid can do as party members (to give them more time to be party leaders) is to get the doctor and bring him to Mideel to see if he can help Cloud.

I do like this because it gives Tifa a bit more of a proactive approach to helping comatose Cloud compared to just sitting at his bedside (or wheelchair-side, whatever).

 

[GamerSkull]

I think this specific dichotomy sort of makes sense, especially depending on which specific canon materials you consume...my partner has never played the OG and only watched AC, so they really didn't like Cloud. Also, this is obviously part of the rug-pull, but I can understand being more attracted to SOLDIER!Cloud over real!Cloud as a matter of preference.



Yeah, it looks like some sort of Cetran glaive-rifle lol.



I do like this because it gives Tifa a bit more of a proactive approach to helping comatose Cloud compared to just sitting at his bedside (or wheelchair-side, whatever).

Personally, I like that because it shows how much she’s devoted to him. But doing that, in addition to other more proactive things is something I wouldn’t complain about.

 

[Hellenic]

What are the odds this takes place in Corel now? Seemed like that scene with the doctor there, about the clones and brain damage, was foreshadowing.

I think Dr. Sheiran will instead move to Mideel for a reason or another. They definitely feel like they are setting him up for later when Cloud is comatose. Perfect excuse for him to get a blood sample from him too.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They were arguing that "even though they were cloti", that Cloud absolutely hated tifa and that that's why he treated her as such in AC. That he was miserable with tifa and would have been happy had she died. More nonsense like that.
This argument went on for over 200 replies, I brought up quotes, examples, everything. I sketched complex hypotheticals to try and guide them step by step to why someone might act in such a way, asking them for agreement on every step. But they were so intellectually bankrupt that they wouldn't even engage with the hypothetical since when I asked to to admit to a single point they'd respond with. "No, because I think what you're actually trying to get me to do is admit that Cloud doesn't hate Tifa, but I already showed you Henderson, my evidence is AC".

It was this encounter that finally convinced me that clerith was an actual cult. I have never seen a more perfect example of intellectual fanaticism. An explicit unwillingness to engage in hypotheticals or to think because doing either of those things may lead to a conclusion you don't want to admit. It was hell.

Yeah, there have definitely been some very cultish adherents over the years.

I will say one thing that could be argued here by cleriths that they never do since that would require the ability to think. Loathe as I am to give them fuel.

It could be argued that the thing that wakes up Zack isn't that the image Aerith images is essentially that of Zack and resonates with his spirit, but that aerith does think of Cloud and that ita the image of zack that shakes him awake since Zack knows Cloud and recognizes that image.

IIRC the wording in maiden makes it fairly clear that Zack thinks he was thinking about him, but I'd have to re-read it to be certain.

Makes it even weirded that they use this as evidence. Guess it's the usual "let's not give the full context out here" things.

Funny how often that happens but only for one side.

@Ryushikaze @Gym Leader Devil

Noticed the both of you talking about Squall earlier. I personally don’t like him much because he comes off as a legit asshole in a lot of way, although I’m open to that being due to localization. Even as I get older, I just can’t get myself to like him. His talk with Quistis in particular. I understand why he does these things but there is a way to keep your distance from people without being… well, an ass.

I do like his Kingdom Hearts counterpart though.

I agree he comes across as an ass in FF8, which is strange when you consider his other appearances like Disisidia and KH, so I'm curious what a remake might do for him.

 

[GamerSkull]

I agree he comes across as an ass in FF8, which is strange when you consider his other appearances like Disisidia and KH, so I'm curious what a remake might do for him.

Yeah, they may be able to characterize him better in a remake. Especially with full voice.

Hope they port the older Dissidia games one day, otherwise I’ll never get to play them really. Not holding my breath though.

 

[Eerie]

If you mean this forum, as far as I recall, I never explicitly banned her, merely every single one of her dupes. If not this one, which other one was she caught at?

No, it's not here, it's another forum for another fandom where I was friend with the admin who told me

If they absolutely nail Mideel to the Lifestream sequence it’ll be undeniable. No kiss needed.

I still want a kiss there because so many people already miss that the Lifestream sequence is indeed romantic and that's why only Tifa can be there, because it's to her that he wants to confess. This is why there were so many "OMG Zack can help there, Aerith can help there!" theories, it's because people had not understood the core of the Lifestream sequence even though it has always been so evident to me.
And Akira's "Golden sparks" makes me believe that we may even get an ILY there:

In the end we're left in the dark
I drift alone evermore
Finally think I can say simple words I couldn't before
I love you.

To me this part strongly refers to the in between NC and LS scenes so either we'll see an "I love you" from Cloud to Tifa in the Lifestream sequence, either the whole LS sequence will be an even bigger love confession (and why not both lol). I still think we'll get a kiss there, to seal the romantism and the return of true!Cloud as Cloud and Tifa will be finally reunited.

Also I still don’t understand this blue baby thing but whatever. Half-Cetra children I guess.

I've also seen theories that they are OG Cloud and Aerith.

There definitely are shippers who just want to self insert themselves in there too, so they don't necessarily want to even care to understand the characters. I've seen Clotis who don't like Cloud all that much and Cleriths who don't like Aerith.

I just don't understand this because I definitely need to love both characters to ship haha. I only started to ship CT in the Lifestream sequence personally.

I will say this but I think most of the fandom understand that CT is canon. I mean they got a kiss, it's HUGE. People don't care if it didn't truly happen, the devs have shown who Cloud is willing to kiss and that's the big deal.

IMHO, what will kill a lot of CA argument is not CT, it's ZA. Because CA is a lot about Aerith and if Aerith herself choses Zack, then a lot of theories are going down. Aerith has had a tragic story in the OG, so I think it's what made CA shippers who were from then very attached to her specifically, because they wanted her to be happy. And the Remake trilogy is showing that Aerith's happiness definitely lies with Zack, so we're going to see that in p3. CA will become fanon officially and it'll be the best for everyone.

That said the most hardcore shippers will never admit defeat.

About Dr Sheiran, my hypothesis is that he will get Cloud's blood and realise that he's not degenerating like other SOLDIERs. Because they have to explain that to new players, since it's a lore that's a bit hidden in the Compilation and I've seen players wondering about that. So yeah Dr Sheiran I feel will come to Mideel to help Cloud. The Dr there will send him either a message either us to Corel to go get him (which will lead to the magnus materia from Corel plot point to be developped and for Barret to finally be looked as the hero he became in his hometown) and he'd come to Corel like this. But I'm more betting towards the second option, with us going to search for the Dr Sheiran in Corel because it is so satisfying, plot-wise, to have those elements aligned.

 

[Hellenic]

I think this specific dichotomy sort of makes sense, especially depending on which specific canon materials you consume...my partner has never played the OG and only watched AC, so they really didn't like Cloud. Also, this is obviously part of the rug-pull, but I can understand being more attracted to SOLDIER!Cloud over real!Cloud as a matter of preference.



Yeah, it looks like some sort of Cetran glaive-rifle lol.



I do like this because it gives Tifa a bit more of a proactive approach to helping comatose Cloud compared to just sitting at his bedside (or wheelchair-side, whatever).

Yeah i can't blame them for not liking Cloud based on AC at all. Also yeah, SOLDIER!Cloud does have his own sorta charm that i can see people preferring.

Now that you bring up the proactive Tifa thing, i kinda do like that approach more myself too.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I honestly suspect there's some form of transference going on. They dislike her because her looks remind them of someone or some idea they have of women who look like that, since it's nothing like the Tifa we know of in the games and film.

I can't speak on folks like BB or Cali, but I remember talking to some Cleriths at a job I had back in TX who fit this transference theory to a T. Was weird to experience in an offline setting.

Yes, Cali has said that. She just hated Tifa more and saw Aerith as the least bad option for Cloud. I suspect she was a self inserter, though you have to wonder why with how bad a person her Cloud was when you looked at him in the bigger picture.

Someone should explain to them that self inserting (in addition to being ripe fruit for dirty jokes) is what Mary Sue fanfic is for. Keep it there and outside of the debate threads, we'd be fine.

This isn't the place for it exactly, but this reminds me, does anyone else think Aerith's final staff in Rebirth is actually a Cetra laser rifle of some sort?

I'm having trouble placing it but it triggers a vague memory of a similar staff/energy rifle thing from some sci-fi or other. Part of me wants to say Eldar of 40k, but that might've been something custom outta some gitz bitz box or something. Still, I can see it

If you mean this forum, as far as I recall, I never explicitly banned her, merely every single one of her dupes. If not this one, which other one was she caught at?

JCVH, I remember that string of dupe bans. I swear to you all, if forum posting permitted it like live conversation, some of those posts would have been cut off mid sentence.

Do I need to break out Water Tower Baby Denzel again for these people?

Why not, it never gets old.

I've noticed in my traipse back through time that what BB didn't recite from the pre-written spiels was often attempts to throw my words back at me. Like her repeated use of "common sense" was echoing my usage of it at her from almost a decade prior. I had forgotten it. She had not. Amazing to live rent free in someone's head like that.

And I suddenly remember why "common sense" especially when prefaced with "it's just" was a trigger for rage induced headaches back in the day. To be fair though, she must have thought it was effective when you said it, after all she used that damned phrase on everyone she spoke to and nauseum in addition to trying to throw it back at you. Pity she never figured out what it actually meant.

In a romantic sense, I love the "What, X doesn't like me!" "Oh yes X does" -SUDDEN SHOCK OF REALIZATION AS YEARS OF INTERACTIONS RECONTEXTUALIZE- type twist. Like how Amy thinks Rory would be the perfect boyfriend for her but she thinks he's gay because he's never shown interest in a woman and he's always hanging around with her and OH"

That is a good one. It's got a similar flavor to ye olde "you had the power all along" twist in a way.

There's also the "push them away so I don't hurt them either" part, which is what takes him from antisocial to empathetic in a twisted wounded way.

Of course, Spiders tend hard towards that one too. They just tend to be funnier and more scathingly sarcastic in the process... excepting Miguel O'Hara this time All right, I still don't like Squall but I understand him a bit better now. I'd still rather hang out playing cards with Cloud than him though.

You're the devil they know. I, on the other hand...

Oh Ryu, I'm the Devil they know and the devil they don't. But though I am of course Pride itself, I can admit quality when I see it, I'll share credit. Just keep digging out that rent free headspace. What goes around comes around... be what's coming around

Aye. I need to go back and finish that remaster, come to think of it.

It's yet another game I had to enjoy second hand, but worth it to do. Still funny that Caim and Angelus accidentally an apocalypse. Damn they were good at murder.

She's legitimately gotten worse over time.

Thus proving once more that it can in fact always get worse. Somehow. When it's at rock bottom, someone will start blasting deeper.

No hesitation, no remorse, just good times.

Anyone good at stitching flags? We need this quite in fancy script on a stylized background of the sun setting under the Highwind.

I remember some time ago one of them admitted that she's never played the original game and still thought she knew the characters better than anyone else.

As someone who is multiple console generations behind, I'll say it is possible to know characters, story, etc very well without playing the game. Watching long plays, taking wiki walks, and so on can make it entirely doable. The one you speak of probably did none of that. It's so much easier to make up what you want and shout how true it has to be after all.

Even Maiden isn't good for C/A. Aerith calls up Zack trying to remember the things that made cloud Unique (oops) and even as she 'rejects' Zack her lines are awful flirty, and Aerith herself gives Cloud and Tifa her blessing during the course of the story.

Never could grasp why that story was a Clerith rallying point. It really never worked out well. Do I remember BB quoting from it, and the response she got was just the same quote with "ok read it again, slower" added on? I legit don't trust my own memory but it sure as shit sounds like something that happened here.

I think this might be what's happening? Future Aerith, what people are calling Omni-Aerith might be trying to pull a sneaky with timelines just so she can give her other self and Zack a happy ending.

I'm still taking the Sanchez approach and not thinking about it too hard. Slippy slidey timey wimey gets out there, I'll analyze it harder when more details come around.

 

[Hellenic]

Funny how often that happens but only for one side.

I see this so much, especially with AC and it's ending. CAs doing the whole Cloud wasn't happy with Tifa and he went to Aeriths church yada yada stuff and never acknowledging how the movie literally ends with them being happy again. Somehow only the initial setup matters to them, but not the conclusion.

 

[GamerSkull]

I see this so much, especially with AC and it's ending. CAs doing the whole Cloud wasn't happy with Tifa and he went to Aeriths church yada yada stuff and never acknowledging how the movie literally ends with them being happy again. Somehow only the initial setup matters to them, but not the conclusion.

They also leave out that Zack’s sword, which definitely symbolizes him because it’s used as his grave marker, is memorialized in Aerith’s church.

“Their place.”