SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[abzy1200]

Hamaguchi said remaking ACC would be a dream come true, so maybe that'll be the bookend of the retrilogy?

I can see it being dlc for part 3.

 

[Eerie]

The problem is, keeping Sephiroth alive because they want ACC to happen is making FF7 an endless loop. They can, no doubt. But it means that after 30 years, our characters will know no salvation.

Because if ACC as we know it exists, it means Sephiroth and Jenova are still present in the LS, so it means Sephiroth and Jenova are still able to act on the inside, so it means Sephiorth and Jenova as seen in Remake with knowledge of the future and therefore abilities to change the course of things. Because a Sephiroth in ACC with the knowledge of what happened in Remake and Rebirth, can again try to change things when the party will still defeat him in the 3rd part.

So yeah. The devs have some explanations to do.

You know I completely agree with that, and as someone who doesn't like ACC that much, despite seeing what they did with CT and ZA, I'd rather if Cloud didn't have to go through it at all and just not have that relapse in healing later on. However, what I also know is that movie is important to Nomura and Nojima, it kinda propelled SE and their games in a way we couldn't imagine before so I'm saying we better anticipate that ACC is still going to happen, especially since:

• the devs have told us the Remake trilogy will lead into ACC (and the number of hints to ACC are numerous in game, since Remake);
• they also seem to disagree with the happy ending Kitase wishes for (they might include a post DOC epilogue though to allude at that since it would be after the ACC troubles).

So don't get your hopes too much because it's likely to still happen is what I'm saying, even though if you ask me what I wish for then yes, delete it lol. Have Cloud and Tifa still adopt Denzel because that kid is still likely to need them (unless Midgar isn't destroyed anymore which I'm doubtful of), but they can scrap that movie for all I care. I'm just aware that what I want and what the devs envision probably isn't the same, on that topic anyway xD

 

[Hellenic]

Do you think Aerith will have a big role in part 3? Or just be non existent until the end like in OG?

Definitely a bigger role in the form of us seeing more of her directly helping from the Lifestream with Zack, which was something we didn't really see much in OG.

 

[LNK]

Honestly they just left at Aerith's death when they should've pushed to the NC scene. Because there is a BIG CHUNK of the OG left to narrate in ONE game now, and thus even if Aerith and Zack have an important role, I'm not sure that screen-wise it will be that big. The fact that we just left Aerith behind too leads me to believe it'll take a while before we see her again - maybe after the NC scene? And I'm not sure her and Zack will reunite right away, she still have things to figure out before reuniting with him IMHO.

My early guess is she won't be revealed officially dead until about third-half way through. This way it keeps the pace with disc1 of the og.

 

[LNK]

The problem is, keeping Sephiroth alive because they want ACC to happen is making FF7 an endless loop. They can, no doubt. But it means that after 30 years, our characters will know no salvation.

Because if ACC as we know it exists, it means Sephiroth and Jenova are still present in the LS, so it means Sephiroth and Jenova are still able to act on the inside, so it means Sephiorth and Jenova as seen in Remake with knowledge of the future and therefore abilities to change the course of things. Because a Sephiroth in ACC with the knowledge of what happened in Remake and Rebirth, can again try to change things when the party will still defeat him in the 3rd part.

But we got that ending in AC. The only reason why Sephiroth could stick around was because of Cloud's hatred. After Cloud defeated him in the end, and the Lifestream was healed, it was heavily implied Cloud let go of that hatred. It's definitely a possibility that Sephiroth could return post AC, but it's just as possible he won't

 

[LNK]

Definitely a bigger role in the form of us seeing more of her directly helping from the Lifestream with Zack, which was something we didn't really see much in OG.

Yeah, I've been saying it for years, but I think Maiden is the template for what was happening with the dead characters

 

[Ryushikaze]

Not quite how I remember it, but I'm probably just too far on the straight side of the scale to get the full thrust as it were [/I][/I]

I was paraphrasing Servo himself, though the wife does find my voice sexy, so...

Exactly. LA UTH may be less risque, but the results are the same. We've been stuck on loop saying LA/HA doesn't matter for this very reason for more than a decade.

A little over 14 years, in fact.

Time Warp was in fact the right choice and shut like this is why.

Sometimes it's 2024, sometimes it's 1997, sometimes it's all the time in between. All it takes is a jump to the left.

I like it. It's not a perfect fusion of names but it gets the idea across without the confusion if sounding like a real name. Besides... well Vegito and Gotenks both exist so clearly perfection is not required.

We needed more stupid cursed fusions. Luke Yamcha and Krillin. become Krimcha or Yallin. Or Krillin and Trunks could form Krunks, the most stoned earth defender, finally unseating Chiaotzu.

Thanks for standin' still!

Changing subjects only slightly, all the characters in TF and TF2 are paid mercs. You know who else is a badass Mercenary? Cloud. Imagine him (and the rest of the crew) meeting the TF2 gang.

Ah yes, I forget how bad some humans are at being honest with themselves.

It's a defense mechanism gone awry, basically.

Their lying ways will always be back then.

Until they accept the facts of the matter, yes. So possibly always.

Can't hear you, W+M1 style checking the entire base.

Spray the "bubbles" everywhere!

He may quiver with frustration until he explodes like a blue sea mine.

Sonic's greatest enemy. Waiting.

That is why you succeed as often as you do, yes. The moral is, Yoda was wrong.

Yoda was, I think, mostly irritated at Luke's defeatism and being a sassy bastard about it rather than trying to dispense glorious sage wisdom.

I trust you got there in the end. And the mental speed bump you hit on the way there is also hilarious, so bonus.

I can but hope it amused.

No, not an echo. I can't really describe it, especially since the first time wasn't even deliberate. I asked my people to describe it, and roomie says it literally sounds as if two people with the same voice and inflection are speaking in perfect unison. It's tricky and sometimes I can't make it happen on command, understanding wtf I'm doing just might make it easier.

Oh as a side note, the only voice this works with is the previously described Vegeta inspired low rasp. Not my normal speaking voice or any other I regularly do.

That sounds similar to the way I produce the stereo effect. It's much easier to do when pitching low and raspy.

She was young enough to have a bald belly for her first walkies in snow. With shirt little dachshund legs. She decided she preferred the life of a scarf pretty quickly.

Yeah that would do it.

I mean she'll be like, Auron's age. That's knocking on death's door by JRPG standards, even without Auron's little... incident.

If we skip the full 15 from Dirge, she'll be 34, making her one year younger than Barret at the start of 7 and remake. Fun fact, he celebrates a birthday during the bouncing around the planet. Actually probably around when they're in Costa del Sol or Corel.

You know, I've said some dumb shit in defense if a position I wanted to be true. We were all young once, I have no shame admitting it. But I eventually learned to listen to what I was saying and realize that if my arguments were dumb, made up garbage it meant I didn't have an actual point.

Do people actively fight self-awareness to prevent same happening to them?

Some do, yeah. I've said before, there are two types of people who hate being wrong. There's the type who strive to be correct and the type who just refuse to admit they were ever wrong.

The ends justify the means to some... except here the end is immutable and already determined so they have to lie about that too.

Aerith being dead is I think part of why the LTD is so long lasting, but also why it gets to insane, since it means things "ending up" C/A are always just a bit off kilter.

Ah, if course. Only the bits that don't support them are heresy. Again it's sad how easily this could be mistaken for political commentary.

It does serve as a neat microcosm of things that happen in the wider world, yes.

I bloody hope so. Like, I need this to be "you said what to Granny Weather wax?!" levels of harsh. That is... just... fuck whoever did that.

The usual suspects, basically. Anastar, Cali, etc.

I think I may remember that comic, or another that made broadly the same joke. But yeah, like we mentioned it's all just a spiral of death pink. Some new flotsam and detritus may was in now and then, buts the same old tide pushing and pulling it around and around.

It was a pretty common joke. And yeah, I have found the one constant with culty cleriths is that everything is permitted so long as it furthers the goal of convincing people C/A is endgame. Even if it contradicts the story, even if it contradicts what you said five minutes ago.

To borrow your recent reassurances, no pressure. You'll have it when you have it

I did find a good chunk of them posted recently, so that'll help.

Aerith may be a special fish in a small pond, but said pond was full of bull sharks and crocodiles. Imagine Aerith saying the Scout's classic line from the old Meet the Blank vids...

Aerith: If you were from, where I was from? You'd be fuckin' dead.

And marvel that it works quite well for her

Now I'm imagining Aerith but Bostonian. Maybe in the nonsense TF2.FF7 crossover Scout is from Midgar.

I still contend that those vague ass statements were at least sometimes carefully chosen to appear meaningful while not meaning much of anything. Which is not prophecy, any more than cold reading.

Oh yeah, they were calculated, but not prophetic. Reeve has access to information but he's not a prognosticator, he just play acts like one.

What's the record for number of pages without needing to remind someone of what exactly is being debated in these threads? I imagine it's higher than I think, lower than it should be.

10 pages maybe?

These are things to hate regardless of who does them or why.

You have to have standards.

I love you man, here I actively chose not to say exactly this and you did it for all of us.

To say what needs to be said, how it needs to be said and when is an art and I try and practice it regularly.

I'll go one further for CulTists and say fuck them in particular for debating in bad faith when they have no need to do so. At least CAlt members downing gallons of pink kool-aide don't have true things to prove their case. Unless they concede the truth, lies and distractions are all they have. People who claim Cloti could just be honest and lose nothing.

It does not excuse it, but I wonder how much of it is predicated on spite for things CALtists say and wanting to get back at them? I remember on a few occasions I spun a wild yarn about Aerith- noting that it was bullshit, mind you- engaging in some heinous activity, prostitution sometimes, selling hard drugs mostly- as an example of how shitty it was to hear that about Tifa and how bad it made people look to make those sort of theories legitimately.
This being the internet, I did have a few people not realize I was trying to use an object lesson and that I did not actually believe or advocate these things.
Aerith the weed dealer is just a delightfully silly image, though.

JFC those are just extra bad takes.

"Say whatever it takes" and all that.

Seriously, if you could look inside Cloud's mind in that moment you probably wouldn't even have to Where's Waldo through all the Tifa to find that regret. It'd be writ large.

Tifa would still be there because she's on a constant GOTO loop, but yes. I mean look at how he acted the second he remembered Zack. It was massive guilt at simple the thought of forgetting Zack existed. Imagine how bad it gets when he remembers Zack died so he could live.

It should be pointed out that no one is claiming this to be the right course of action. But it is the one everyone sticks with until Cloud breaks, and it's out of genuine concern. We'll never know if it would have been better or worse to just rip the band-aide off

It's the best course of action available to them at this moment. The right course of action would involve stopping everything and working through his problems but both Shinra and Sephiroth kibosh that plan by virtue of being on their tail and fucking with Cloud respectively.

I don't think it would be a controversial position among you lot that being close friends with Zack makes you more special rather than less. To paraphrase Wreck-it Ralph: "If that awesome bro likes me, how lame could I be?"

Now I'm curious what the WIR versions of the characters who know they're in a video game are like. Gilgamesh is exactly the same. He sort of already knows.

Every time someone tried to say Zack in Remake and Cloud's hearing went out, I winced in sympathy. Because as much as he's going to beat on himself for forgetting Zack later, remembering him right now would shatter Cloud.

I'd have to double check but I think those were gray static moments, too. Meaning his subconscious was doing it.

My jaw dropped when he pulled that off. I still wonder what the in-universe reason for this earlier development is. Cloud doesn't seem appreciably healthier mentally than in the OG, aside from not violently assaulting Aerith. But then, he and Tifa are developing faster this go around. Related?

Could be. It's definitely a him thing. The brain flashes are color coded and gray static is used in OG, Remake and Every Crisis to represent real Cloud.

Edit: I somehow italicized my whole post and cba to fix it, sorry. Ryu, may I blame your cat plzkthx

Feel free. She knocked down the center channel on my home theater the other day so a tiny bit of extra blame will do her no harm.

Jenova cells and mako infusions help by making him consistently badass. He had none of that when he grabbed a sword and went full blender on a unit of evil super soldiers, nor when he overpowered and killed Sephiroth.

You have to wonder how much of Cloud being casually superhuman without Jenova is genetic and how much is due to constant mako exposure from playing around on mt nibel as a child.

Exactly, that mountain dwelling kid from the sticks is enough, he was always enough. Clouds struggle to me isn't about accepting that he isn't Captain America, it's about his sense of self-worth being so low he can't see that he already is.

He's like if Thor thought he was just Donald Blake and desperately wanted to become Captain America even as he is just sort of absent mindedly lifting cars to look for lost pets.

The sad thing is, him going after Tifa is where the problem starts, as far as I can tell. Because he didn't save her then, he convinced himself he was too weak, too worthless. He overlooked the fact that he not only survived that fall, he was barely injured.

This is also a fun connection for future events btw, with how he failed to rescue the girl but he tried and that's enough for said girl. History repeats on that one.

It's also a nice bookend for when he absolutely does rescue the girl when she's in a pinch in the final moments of the game.

But we got that ending in AC. The only reason why Sephiroth could stick around was because of Cloud's hatred. After Cloud defeated him in the end, and the Lifestream was healed, it was heavily implied Cloud let go of that hatred. It's definitely a possibility that Sephiroth could return post AC, but it's just as possible he won't

IIRC it was Sephiroth's hatred of Cloud that let him stick around, not the other way around. Feel free to fact check me on that one.

 

[nars305]

I’m really interested in how they handle Aerith’s death reveal. As it stands, Cloud is in denial but it’s also not entirely his fault since on one hand he’s suppressing a dead Aerith but on the other hand he goes on to fight Sephiroth with Aerith.

Also in that mix is that Cloud fought alongside Zack. I feel like this is something that would also have to be addressed? Because he has a similar occurrence with Aerith. She dies, he refuses to see it, he FIGHTS with her, but then returns to her body and tells her to wake up?

I don’t understand why Cloud has no reaction, thought, or something with seeing Aerith and Zack again when fighting Sephiroth.

 

[Yoru]

You know I completely agree with that, and as someone who doesn't like ACC that much, despite seeing what they did with CT and ZA, I'd rather if Cloud didn't have to go through it at all and just not have that relapse in healing later on. However, what I also know is that movie is important to Nomura and Nojima, it kinda propelled SE and their games in a way we couldn't imagine before so I'm saying we better anticipate that ACC is still going to happen, especially since:

• the devs have told us the Remake trilogy will lead into ACC (and the number of hints to ACC are numerous in game, since Remake);
• they also seem to disagree with the happy ending Kitase wishes for (they might include a post DOC epilogue though to allude at that since it would be after the ACC troubles).

So don't get your hopes too much because it's likely to still happen is what I'm saying, even though if you ask me what I wish for then yes, delete it lol. Have Cloud and Tifa still adopt Denzel because that kid is still likely to need them (unless Midgar isn't destroyed anymore which I'm doubtful of), but they can scrap that movie for all I care. I'm just aware that what I want and what the devs envision probably isn't the same, on that topic anyway xD

I'm not saying that AC won't happen. I'm not anticipating anything. I know this movie is important. And I know about their constant statement about the new games not retconning it. It's just that they really have to explain things. To make it justified.

And as for my personnal opinion : Yes, I want AC to be the link to the Re-trilogy, the starting point of it all, more than a follow-up. Because yeah I know human feelings can be complicated and all... but what a let down if Cloud is going through all this shit again when we have seen how he can fix his "couple arguments" with Tifa damn well in Rebirth. They speak all the time, he knows when he's been an asshole, try to make time to discuss things between them. And it's not even fixed Cloud yet. So yeah... fuck. XD

But we got that ending in AC. The only reason why Sephiroth could stick around was because of Cloud's hatred. After Cloud defeated him in the end, and the Lifestream was healed, it was heavily implied Cloud let go of that hatred. It's definitely a possibility that Sephiroth could return post AC, but it's just as possible he won't

I don't know to be honest. His "I'll never be a memory" sounds more like a "I'll be back" than a "Noooooo I'm dead bye". And it's really in line with what's happening in the remake ending. Like yeah, that MF is back. He won't be a memory unless with erase his ass for good.

 

[abzy1200]

I’m really interested in how they handle Aerith’s death reveal. As it stands, Cloud is in denial but it’s also not entirely his fault since on one hand he’s suppressing a dead Aerith but on the other hand he goes on to fight Sephiroth with Aerith.

Also in that mix is that Cloud fought alongside Zack. I feel like this is something that would also have to be addressed? Because he has a similar occurrence with Aerith. She dies, he refuses to see it, he FIGHTS with her, but then returns to her body and tells her to wake up?

I don’t understand why Cloud has no reaction, thought, or something with seeing Aerith and Zack again when fighting Sephiroth.

This. Too many times in the re;trilogy do the party basically go "Welp, that was weird, moving on" and then never address it until it comes up again.

 

[SilverSisu]

She dies, he refuses to see it, he FIGHTS with her, but then returns to her body and tells her to wake up?

I don't think that Cloud who asked Aerith to wake up was our Cloud. That rainbow prism indicates another world. There is a clear transition between two worlds when Cloud walks towards Aerith's body.

Cloud who is in denial is main world Cloud.

 

[LNK]

IIRC it was Sephiroth's hatred of Cloud that let him stick around, not the other way around. Feel free to fact check me on that one.

"As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back, the man thought."

This was from Case of Lifestream: Black

 

[Yoru]

"As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back, the man thought."

This was from Case of Lifestream: Black

But Sephiroth is a part of him. On a cellular level. Sure he gained confidence in the end of AC, he's telling him more or less "I'm not afraid of you anymore you can stay in the past" but he can't forget him totally lol. And that's my "problem" here. Sephiroth is literally a cancer to the planet. He's around and we can't do shit about it. Cloud is a walking horcrux (sorry for the ref) so him alive is keeping Sephiroth alive. That's literally why he's protecting Cloud in Remake/Rebirth. He is his link to the living world.

Hell, going to pray at the Church with Tifa and the kids is enough to think about Sephiroth lmao.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I don't think that Cloud was our Cloud. That rainbow prism indicates another world. There is a clear transition between two worlds when Cloud walks towards Aerith's body.

Cloud that is in denial is main world Cloud.

I think they're still the same Cloud, at least at that point, and that's part of why he's in denial about Aerith being dead.

"As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back, the man thought."

This was from Case of Lifestream: Black

I didn't read that as it being Cloud's hate doing that, just the memory. At the start of Black, "the man" does this "The man knew that if one could hold onto some core of their spirit, then one could remain a separate entity, independent from the planet’s system. Cloud. The man decided to make Cloud that core. And he wanted to let Cloud know of that. I’m still thinking of you. And I’ll show you the proof of that as well."
So I think the idea is that Sephiroth can prolong himself by his fixation on Cloud, but he needs Cloud to keep remembering him to keep the cycle going. That's why he tries Geostigma. To get Cloud thinking about him.

 

[SilverSisu]

I think they're still the same Cloud, at least at that point, and that's part of why he's in denial about Aerith being dead.

So you are saying that Cloud was between two worlds and he saw alive alternative world Aerith, then he returned back into the main world and now he thinks that main world Aerith is alive?

 

[Ryeleigh]

I liked her "second best" dress the most. I feel like it fit her the most just like you said with all the pink and it wasn't too over the top either like the red dress.

Yeah, and if I recall correctly, I think Aerith was most comfortable in the "second best" dress. Which is why I and others think it's her "canon" dress.

As for Zerith hopes for Part 3, the reunion obviously, lol. But I also want to see them fight together and banter. That's basically the minimum I'd like to see.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So you are saying that Cloud was between two worlds and he saw alive alternative world Aerith, then he returned back into the main world and now he thinks that main world Aerith is alive?

That is my operating hypothesis. I think he might actually still be partly between worlds as well, and that is why he can see the crack in the sky.

 

[Yoru]

I’m really interested in how they handle Aerith’s death reveal. As it stands, Cloud is in denial but it’s also not entirely his fault since on one hand he’s suppressing a dead Aerith but on the other hand he goes on to fight Sephiroth with Aerith.

Also in that mix is that Cloud fought alongside Zack. I feel like this is something that would also have to be addressed? Because he has a similar occurrence with Aerith. She dies, he refuses to see it, he FIGHTS with her, but then returns to her body and tells her to wake up?

I don’t understand why Cloud has no reaction, thought, or something with seeing Aerith and Zack again when fighting Sephiroth.

That's one of the reasons I said the reveal would take place after the LS, when Cloud is fixed. I think SOLDIER!Cloud would try to keep a cool attitude, while Real!Cloud would let his heart speak for itself. So the scene might be better that way, I think. We'll see how he really reacts compared to OG. And people will understand why they made the choice to change her death in Rebirth. To give her a much better final farewell.

As for why he has no reaction at all to everything that's happened.... I think it's complex. We still don't know what this Edge of Creation thing is, or where it is. Is it real? Or in his mind? And at this point, he's already delusional, so... we can't really trust his reactions either.

 

[LNK]

I don't know to be honest. His "I'll never be a memory" sounds more like a "I'll be back" than a "Noooooo I'm dead bye". And it's really in line with what's happening in the remake ending. Like yeah, that MF is back. He won't be a memory unless with erase his ass for good.

But he doesn't NEED to be erased for good, in order for him to not return. All it takes is for Cloud to move on from his feelings towards him. That's what's implied within the lore of ff7 universe.

But Sephiroth is a part of him. On a cellular level. Sure he gained confidence in the end of AC, he's telling him more or less "I'm not afraid of you anymore you can stay in the past" but he can't forget him totally lol. And that's my "problem" here. Sephiroth is literally a cancer to the planet. He's around and we can't do shit about it. Cloud is a walking horcrux (sorry for the ref) so him alive is keeping Sephiroth alive. That's literally why he's protecting Cloud in Remake/Rebirth. He is his link to the living world.

Hell, going to pray at the Church with Tifa and the kids is enough to think about Sephiroth lmao.

Yes, but it's not Cloud's physical body that is the anchor. It's his memory of Sephiroth that is the anchor. How do you know Cloud can't forget Sephiroth? Is there anything in the lore that supports Cloud not being able to let go? To me, that goes against what the ending of AC is implying.

I didn't read that as it being Cloud's hate doing that, just the memory.

True! I guess looking deeper into the memory, it's not a memory of happiness though. In that case, it's one of anger and hatred for all the pain he's caused Cloud up until that point.

At the start of Black, "the man" does this "The man knew that if one could hold onto some core of their spirit, then one could remain a separate entity, independent from the planet’s system. Cloud. The man decided to make Cloud that core. And he wanted to let Cloud know of that. I’m still thinking of you. And I’ll show you the proof of that as well." That's why he tries Geostigma. To get Cloud thinking about him.

Yeah, but without Cloud's memory of Sephiroth, he wouldn't have been able to do that. Sephiroth likely has hatred towards Cloud, but he still requires Cloud remembering him when it comes down to it. If Cloud forgets him, he doesn't believe he can return

 

[SilverSisu]

That is my operating hypothesis. I think he might actually still be partly between worlds as well, and that is why he can see the crack in the sky.

I guess that is in the realm of possibilities but my problem with this is that if we have two Aeriths (alive and dead) then we must also have two Clouds aswell (one that breached the fate and second from this new altered world who actually saved Aerith)

The other altered world party members would still be outside of forgotten capital during that moment. Thats why they weren't there.

 

[Ryushikaze]

True! I guess looking deeper into the memory, it's not a memory of happiness though. In that case, it's one of anger and hatred for all the pain he's caused Cloud up until that point.

No disagreement there. Your wording made it sound like it was active and continual on Cloud's part.

Yeah, but without Cloud's memory of Sephiroth, he wouldn't have been able to do that. Sephiroth likely has hatred towards Cloud, but he still requires Cloud remembering him when it comes down to it. If Cloud forgets him, he doesn't believe he can return

My point is more that Sephiroth is the one instigating, trying to keep himself fresh in Cloud's mind, because he does require Cloud to keep going. That's why I say it's Sephiroth's hate rather than Cloud's. Not that Cloud likes Sephiroth, but he would rather forget and move on if he could. Sephiroth is doing his damndest to stop that.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I guess that is in the realm of possibilities but my problem with this is that if we have two Aeriths (alive and dead) then we must also have two Clouds aswell (one that breached the fate and second from this new altered world who actually saved Aerith)

The other altered world party members would still be outside of forgotten capital during that moment. Thats why they are weren't there.

Yeah, my working hypothesis is that For a time, Our Cloud was both of those Clouds before fully splitting off into Our Cloud and alternate Cloud. Thus both of those Clouds would have memories of Aerith both alive and Dead. Our Aerith (or maybe Omni Aerith) might actually be aware of this fact, given the pink brain pain regarding her death in the ending.

I think being crossed over with multiple other hims might also be why he sees the crack in the sky at the end as well.

 

[Yoru]

But he doesn't NEED to be erased for good, in order for him to not return. All it takes is for Cloud to move on from his feelings towards him. That's what's implied within the lore of ff7 universe.


Yes, but it's not Cloud's physical body that is the anchor. It's his memory of Sephiroth that is the anchor. How do you know Cloud can't forget Sephiroth? Is there anything in the lore that supports Cloud not being able to let go? To me, that goes against what the ending of AC is implying.

Because he's not a robot. He hasn't had a lobotomy. And since he was treated in FF7, he can no longer block memories completely like he used to. The slightest thought of Aerith from time to time, for example, automatically makes him think of Sephiroth. The dude literally fell in front of him to kill her. So I'm sorry, but I disagree and don't think your logic really works. At the end of AC Cloud has the psychological upper hand. Basically, he can come back all he wants, Cloud is stronger than him. But Sephiroth is still "alive" and as Remake and Rebirth imply... that's a problem because it gives him ENORMOUS possibilities to screw things up retrospectively.

So yeah, we won't agree and have to wait how they setup things in the 3rd game.

 

[Maidenofwar]

You know Aly was always good to me, I remember her with fondness, and her personal struggles, I wonder if she's still around, she was getting up there in age last I remember.

 

[LNK]

No disagreement there. Your wording made it sound like it was active and continual on Cloud's part.

For sure! You countering my initial statement made me go back to check why I thought it was Cloud's hatred. I knew I was thinking of Case of Lifestream. I just misremembered exactly what was said in there.

My point is more that Sephiroth is the one instigating, trying to keep himself fresh in Cloud's mind, because he does require Cloud to keep going. That's why I say it's Sephiroth's hate rather than Cloud's. Not that Cloud likes Sephiroth, but he would rather forget and move on if he could. Sephiroth is doing his damndest to stop that.

Yeah, Sephiroth is definitely instigating things. Buuutttt, as long as Cloud doesn't waver and give in to temptation, Sephiroth won't be able to return.

Unless of course he finds another way