SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Maidenofwar]

Thanks for the feedbacks!

I feel like this is something they worry about a lot, I think I remember it was Kitase or something that mentioned about how some people didn't like how Aerith asked out Cloud out on a date OG or she shouldn't have said that and things so they made the parallel with Zack asking Aerith out, that was supposed to sort of explain it or something. They are so protective of her

Spoiler

 

[Final_Heaven]

Look, all I'm hoping for is that Remake officially kills the LTD once and for all since it's meant to be the Compilation's finale. No more ambiguity or having to go through official sources to confirm the canon.

Just slap us in the face with it by the end.

And I'm actually hoping that the "Under the Highwind" Scene has a kiss before the fade-out at least because I've seen way too many people in denial say that both versions were platonic since too much it was off-screen and implications.

 

[Graymouse]

There is no way these two could just 'pick up where they left off'.

I know that the only reason why you up-voted was because of the Bowie reference.

There is a way to bridge the gap and pick up right were they left off. It really depends on the individuals. I have been away from my brothers who we grew very close. When I left for the military I didn't return to my hometown for over 20 years. When I did come home finally my mother and other family members were laughing at how easy it was for us to pick up right were we left off. I know I am talking about direct family but it is quite similar as young romance.

In the Remake, it seems like Cloud and Tifa are doing just that. However, I will agree with you that they will have a lot of challanges ahead of them, their first one will be in Kalm. When Cloud tells his story on the Nibelheim incident.

 

[odekopeko]

@Maidenofwar She's a beloved character. But honestly, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that I met the Remake Aerith first, and that they took out some of her more fickle and flirtatious characteristics because, well, Zack... Have not played CC, but I watched the cut scenes on youtube. I'd be so pissed after all he did for Cloud for him to be written off as just the dead guy she wasn't serious about.

Here's an open question that I was thinking about: Why does Tifa love Cloud (at the beginning of the game?) They are established to have not been close as kids, and Cloud hasn't been in sector 7 long, so what is the attraction at the time? Is it an emotional attachment due to him being the last remnant of her lost home, or are these feelings she's been hiding since her youth?

I'm no anti Cloti, so this is pure curiosity. People are pointing to things from very early on as indication of her feelings, so I'm wondering when people think those feelings developed.

Am I the only one that doesn't think Tifa loves Cloud at the beginning of the Remake, while Cloud is the one who still holds a torch for her? The way he said, "Good night, Tifa", when she had already left the room and kept staring at the door was one indication. The other was when he got super defensive when Aerith asks if she's his girlfriend. It's not Tifa who brings up the promise either, but Cloud remembering it on his own. He even remembers their little conversation at the bar, and is aware that she's going through stuff and wants to do something for her.

But there's really no indication that she's in love, only that she's starting to develop feelings for him.

On another tangent, I do get the impression that Tifa is a huge romantic at heart though. Her tone of voice when she talks about them bumping into each other in Midgar and reuniting again, seeing her treasure that one flower he gave her, and her mentioning she looked up its meaning. Based on those things I think she must have felt like fate pulled them together somehow. I think she's developing feelings for him. There's definitely already a fondness and attraction there from the very beginning, but I don't get the feeling she's already in love with him.

She just really seems the type who needs to check a bridge a hundred times to make sure it's safe before crossing it.

 

[Master Bates]

Look, all I'm hoping for is that Remake officially kills the LTD once and for all since it's meant to be the Compilation's finale. No more ambiguity or having to go through official sources to confirm the canon.

Spoiler: B-B-BUT...

I mean, I'm with you. Always did express my wish for this Remake to end this endless torture already. Don't even care what the endgame result will be, just end it.

And I'm actually hoping that the "Under the Highwind" Scene has a kiss before the fade-out at least because I've seen way too many people in denial say that both versions were platonic since too much it was off-screen and implications.

That's still a long way, unfortunately. Probably in at least 10 years time.

EDIT:

and her mentioning she looked up its meaning.

I'm gobsmacked to know they have Google. Yes, my immediate thought was she googled the flower's meaning. Leave me alone.

 

[ForceStealer]

There is a 0% chance the remake "solves" the LTD. The ambiguity was always intentionally baked into it from the start. At least partially because FFVII isn't a love story, the way VIII or X are.

Also, even if it DID attempt to, that wouldn't end anything. There could be an explicit, passionate sex scene under the Highwind and people wouldn't be convinced

 

[MasterMoogle]

There is a 0% chance the remake "solves" the LTD. The ambiguity was always intentionally baked into it from the start. At least partially because FFVII isn't a love story, the way VIII or X are.

Also, even if it DID attempt to, that wouldn't end anything. There could be an explicit, passionate sex scene under the Highwind and people wouldn't be convinced

That's the thing though, the devs ALREADY ended the debate with the Highwind scene. Cleriths just refused to accept that as proof.

And like I said before, the relationship between CxA was practically nonexistent before she died.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well there will always be the fact that "they thought/knew they might be going to their deaths the next morning," which is true.

I'd argue they ended the debate by killing one of them

 

[Master Bates]

There is a 0% chance the remake "solves" the LTD.

Unless you provide the data, formula, entire computation and process at how you arrived at such conclusion I will not believe you.

Although I'm of the opinion that the debate ended by the end of OG disc 1.

 

[minami758]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Tifa loves Cloud at the beginning of the Remake, while Cloud is the one who still holds a torch for her? The way he said, "Good night, Tifa", when she had already left the room and kept staring at the door was one indication. The other was when he got super defensive when Aerith asks if she's his girlfriend. It's not Tifa who brings up the promise either, but Cloud remembering it on his own. He even remembers their little conversation at the bar, and is aware that she's going through stuff and wants to do something for her.

I got this sense too. That whole "Good night, Tifa" thing was like... boy you really have a crush on her don't you.

And the jealousy, and the touchiness... I think Cloud's feelings for Tifa are best summed up by "the body remembers what the mind forgets." Cloud knows he feels something more for Tifa, he just doesn't realize the extent of his feelings yet.

ETA: I do actually think Tifa has a crush on Cloud too but I don't think she's "in love" with him yet at the beginning of the game.

She just really seems the type who needs to check a bridge a hundred times to make sure it's safe before crossing it.

Ironic that impulsively crossing a physical bridge led to this whole shebang in the first place.

I'm gobsmacked to know they have Google. Yes, my immediate thought was she googled the flower's meaning. Leave me alone.

I actually found this interesting — Tifa mentions that she looked up the meaning of the flower in her Resolution scene, and she later mentions the meaning when you go back down to the sewers with Leslie. The Leslie scene works on its own, but notable that her Resolution is referenced in a non-optional scene later on. Lends credence to the idea that all three are canon in some way or another.

There is a 0% chance the remake "solves" the LTD. The ambiguity was always intentionally baked into it from the start. At least partially because FFVII isn't a love story, the way VIII or X are.

I dunno man, maybe it's just me but there is some serious sexual tension going on between Cloud and Tifa. It's like Chekhov's sexual tension — the gun's gotta go off eventually.

 

[Edley]

If it was the other way around, then even less reason to suppose thirteen year old Tifa was "in love" with Cloud.
I wouldn't say she looked "distraught". A little upset or disappointed, perhaps.
But even if she was a thirteen year old "in love" and her "heart was broken"... I mean, these two are middle school age at this point. They barely even know what these feelings are; it's all hormones and confusion at that age.

At most, she has a child's notion of love. What she wants is to get to know Cloud better. The water tower scene is done so well in remake. Tifa's the confident, pretty, popular girl, but falling off the mountain gives extra weight to the youthful desire to have a hero, be protected. When the others are in her orbit Cloud keeps his distance. So when he calls her out to the water tower and she imagines its to confess. That's what the other boys would do.

Now here's a question: What was Tifa's plan here? The promise is an audible. A reason for Cloud to come back to her when everyone else in her age group is leaving. Why does she want Cloud to come back in particular? Does she know he went after her when she fell off the mountain? Or is it as simple as being attracted to someone's who is different and wanting to get to know them better? Cloud's already in love with her, but the promise changes how she views Cloud forever. And it's this spur of the moment thing that ends up being the real memory that drives their relationship going forward.

Then Sephiroth comes and burns everything down.

Cloud and Tifa are not "in love" at the start of remake. It's the shared trauma of Nibelheim and the emotional memories they both suppress are the gravity that instinctively draws to one another. She's someone he has to protect. Even if he doesn't know the real reason why yet. He's the last vestige of her destroyed youth and best hope for her future.

That's the kind of connection that would take a lifetime to understand. But if some people need I love you, kiss kiss or it's not real then I understand.

 

[Final_Heaven]

@Maidenofwar She's a beloved character. But honestly, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that I met the Remake Aerith first, and that they took out some of her more fickle and flirtatious characteristics because, well, Zack... Have not played CC, but I watched the cut scenes on youtube. I'd be so pissed after all he did for Cloud for him to be written off as just the dead guy she wasn't serious about.



Am I the only one that doesn't think Tifa loves Cloud at the beginning of the Remake, while Cloud is the one who still holds a torch for her? The way he said, "Good night, Tifa", when she had already left the room and kept staring at the door was one indication. The other was when he got super defensive when Aerith asks if she's his girlfriend. It's not Tifa who brings up the promise either, but Cloud remembering it on his own. He even remembers their little conversation at the bar, and is aware that she's going through stuff and wants to do something for her.

But there's really no indication that she's in love, only that she's starting to develop feelings for him.

On another tangent, I do get the impression that Tifa is a huge romantic at heart though. Her tone of voice when she talks about them bumping into each other in Midgar and reuniting again, seeing her treasure that one flower he gave her, and her mentioning she looked up its meaning. Based on those things I think she must have felt like fate pulled them together somehow. I think she's developing feelings for him. There's definitely already a fondness and attraction there from the very beginning, but I don't get the feeling she's already in love with him.

She just really seems the type who needs to check a bridge a hundred times to make sure it's safe before crossing it.

Oh, she totally has a crush on Cloud at the beginning of Remake. Even newcomers can sense it on Tifa's end just by the way she talks to him and her body language when they first meet until they part.

Those feelings for Cloud go back to the Promise that he made her. You could make a case that it's evolving from a big crush to love though.

That said, apparently Tifa using the words that she's trapped might have been confirmed to have been her trying to get Cloud to remember their promise. And she's a little disappointed that he didn't although he does later that night.

 

[MasterMoogle]

I dunno man, maybe it's just me but there is some serious sexual tension going on between Cloud and Tifa. It's like Chekhov's sexual tension — the gun's gotta go off eventually.

But high-fives!

 

[Eerie]

@odekopeko Seeing Tifa accepting the flower the way she did (her smile literally shone), and how she bit her lips after he complimented her makes me think otherwise. There is fondness from her, from the very beginning. I do agree that it develops enough so that she can feel safe enough to cry in front of him in ch14 and ask for comfort, don't misunderstand, but I do think that Tifa who lived the Nibelheim incident grew up into a pretty independant woman (we see her going to Don Corneo's mansion without the approval of Barret, after all). Which is good because that idea of a prince who'd save her has long gone, yet she herself referred to the promise at the bar without saying so - and Cloud realised that by himself not long after.

As for the whole will they put an end to the LTD, that is a good question. I guess as long as the Hhighwind scene is optional, there will be people claiming it's not happening, even though it is, so I hope that they won't shy off this.

 

[odekopeko]

@Eerie @Final_Heaven: Thanks for bringing this up. I didn't pick up on that bit in the scene that she was actually referring to their promise. I'll need to look at it again.

 

[Final_Heaven]

@odekopeko Seeing Tifa accepting the flower the way she did (her smile literally shone), and how she bit her lips after he complimented her makes me think otherwise. There is fondness from her, from the very beginning. I do agree that it develops enough so that she can feel safe enough to cry in front of him in ch14 and ask for comfort, don't misunderstand, but I do think that Tifa who lived the Nibelheim incident grew up into a pretty independant woman (we see her going to Don Corneo's mansion without the approval of Barret, after all). Which is good because that idea of a prince who'd save her has long gone, yet she herself referred to the promise at the bar without saying so - and Cloud realised that by himself not long after.

As for the whole will they put an end to the LTD, that is a good question. I guess as long as the Hhighwind scene is optional, there will be people claiming it's not happening, even though it is, so I hope that they won't shy off this.

Correction: The Highwind scene wasn't optional in the OG. It's just that were were two Highwind scenes(one involving implied sex and the other doesn't) and the game doesn't tell you which one is the one that happened. Square didn't really canonize the High Affection scene until years after the original game.

And there's also that the English translation for the High Affection Highwind scene was a little mistranslated. In Japanese, she says "Words aren't the only way of letting someone know how you feel" rather than "Cloud, words aren't the only thing that tell people what you think". If they're gonna use the same lines in Japanese, I expect it to be translated more faithfully for the Remake so as to make it more obvious.

But I'd argue that even the Low Affection scene for the Highwind is extremely affectionate for someone like Cloud since they're kind of on each other while they sleep together.

 

[Graymouse]

@odekopeko Seeing Tifa accepting the flower the way she did (her smile literally shone), and how she bit her lips after he complimented her makes me think otherwise. There is fondness from her, from the very beginning. I do agree that it develops enough so that she can feel safe enough to cry in front of him in ch14 and ask for comfort, don't misunderstand, but I do think that Tifa who lived the Nibelheim incident grew up into a pretty independant woman (we see her going to Don Corneo's mansion without the approval of Barret, after all). Which is good because that idea of a prince who'd save her has long gone, yet she herself referred to the promise at the bar without saying so - and Cloud realised that by himself not long after.

As for the whole will they put an end to the LTD, that is a good question. I guess as long as the Hhighwind scene is optional, there will be people claiming it's not happening, even though it is, so I hope that they won't shy off this.

I hate bringing up old things but this was mentioned back on page 38 of this thread. When Cloud and Aerith side of the LTD mention the Highwind scene, as scenes that are opposites of each other. Counter points if you will. That is not the case.

—

That’s the problem with the Highwind scenes. Some people assume that the existence of two versions automatically means that they are the opposite of one another completely. For clarity’s sake, the Low Affection scene does not say that Cloud and Tifa 1) *hate* or are disinterested in each other because they confessed love on the other scene, or 2) decided to be *only* friends because they wanted to be much more in the other version.

Yes, those are actual arguments I’ve read from the other side, and they are not true. The Low Affection scene being apathetic is a result of the lack of points you, as Cloud, failed to accumulate in order for Tifa to be comfortable enough to show that she wants your Buster Sword. It does not change the fact that she likes Cloud romantically and vice versa.

And about Cloud and Tifa not being showy and mushy all over: I don’t think people who argue that they aren’t a couple because of such a reason don’t necessarily know what love is in real life. They just expect that, from a video game, where everybody looks insanely gorgeous and everything is fantasy, love must be this magical, eternal force that is never touched by mistakes or sadness or hurt whatsoever.

They don’t have to have twisted ideas about love in real life to come up with such conclusions. They just have a problem with the Compilation’s approach.
—
—Unlucky

But since we are suppose to be talking about the Remake, I digress.

 

[Eerie]

Oh sorry, when I talk about the Highwind scene, I always talk about the canon one. The high affection scene

Also, I agree with you @Graymouse. The problem is not me, the problem is that people are still denying this because of the vagueness, bad translation, and possibility to have a "low" affection scene.

 

[ForceStealer]

While I get the subtle difference in translation there, I still think it's pretty clear what she's saying in English, lol

 

[Maidenofwar]

@odekopeko I agree, and I think you're supposed to get a sense more and more as you go through the game, especially by the ending that this Aerith knows a lot more than she's letting on at times and that might be where she is coming from with things, I think if people haven't cottoned on by the final chapters that Aerith is a magical girl, I think by the end of the game they sort of hit you over the head with wow this girl has powers. I think that's interesting if people decide to do a replay or Hard mode. etc, if things they might have learned later on might change their take from things

 

[looneymoon]

Advent Children ends with Cloud searching for the alternate universe where Aerith Lives, remake suggested it first

Anyways, one aspect I dislike about the depiction of the FF7 romance is this idea that Tifa was kinda just like... waiting around for Cloud for her entire adolescence. To me, the likeliness of her having a some kind of romantic life before finding Cloud again is probably higher than not. Even worse is the idea that Aerith and Zack's relationship was 100% chaste - that's just not super believable to me.

It kinda rubs me the wrong way, mostly because of the weird puritanical type of implications, and especially when it's being applied to both girls. I tend to prefer in my headcanon that Tifa had at least some small experience with dating before Cloud came back into the picture, but that's just personal headcanon stuff. Remake kinda leans into the idea of her chastely rebuffing all the boys that aren't Cloud, and I expect it to probably lean into that harder in the future. I think that's fine because it is in line with her character, it's just something I've always been a bit ehhh on.

Personally I would love a scene where a really cool dude flirts with Tifa, and she actually gets a little flustered which causes Cloud to get big mad.

 

[ForceStealer]

That's definitely the way the fandom has run with things, but I don't know that the game really convincingly implies anything about that.

If Crisis Core implies Aerith and Zack were chaste, it's only because they hang out like, what, three times?

 

[Via Purifico]

https://silver-wield.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F618450069897756672
I'd write it out again, but it's easier just to link my theory on why all of the resolutions are canon.

 

[Eerie]

I think Tifa was probably too traumatised and had too much on her plate to date during that timeframe. Which also may be why she held onto Cloud's promise and her feelings towards him, because those were the only solid things that were left, even though she didn't know if Cloud was still alive.

 

[looneymoon]

That's definitely the way the fandom has run with things, but I don't know that the game really convincingly implies anything about that.

If Crisis Core implies Aerith and Zack were chaste, it's only because they hang out like, what, three times?

I vaguely recall there being some material that described it as innocent or something. I was just always like naw thats garbage let Aerith fuck her boyfriend.