LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I agree with you looneymoon, also I dislike the equation of sexually inexperienced with innocent. In any case, Aerith isn't innocent, and that's a good thing.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
MasterMoogle
Pro Adventurer
Advent Children ends with Cloud searching for the alternate universe where Aerith Lives, remake suggested it first
Anyways, one aspect I dislike about the depiction of the FF7 romance is this idea that Tifa was kinda just like... waiting around for Cloud for her entire adolescence. To me, the likeliness of her having a some kind of romantic life before finding Cloud again is probably higher than not. Even worse is the idea that Aerith and Zack's relationship was 100% chaste - that's just not super believable to me.
I think part of that shock comes from people who grew up in populated areas, going to school with hundreds(if not thousands) of people their own age. Plenty of opportunity. Tifa probably didn't have as many opportunities to meet someone.
As for Aerith and Zack, they did date for a year and a half. I agree, they probably did reach a certain point in their relationship where clothing was optional.
To be fair, Cloud isn't pictured with any other girl either, even before the Nibelheim incident. As for Zack, he was 16 when he and Aerith started dating. By the time he was 18, he was Hojo's guinea pig.
I disagree. She proved how innocent she was when she implied that she honestly thought Corneo was looking for a wife.
Corneo: "Today's bride-to-be is . . . "
Aerith: "Today's?!"
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I mean, joining the army at 14, and then from 16 until 21 you're floating in a test tube. That's not a whole lot of dating opportunity
Eh. I think anyone could have reacted to that statement that way. Doesn't require innocence. Cloud didn't call him "pathetic" until after that, either.
Edley
Pray for Sound
- AKA
- Issac Dian, Dudley, Chev Chelios
@looneymoon I was searching to find it and I did! Somebody should send that to Aerith's VA.
On second thought, lets not do that.
Final_Heaven
Pro Adventurer
True. I just watched another streamer watch that scene today and she knew right away once it faded to black that they boned. She actually thought they made it too obvious and lewd.
MasterMoogle
Pro Adventurer
They shouldn't have included that line. It went too far. It made Aerith come off as presumptuous. That said, I'm still not entirely sure what she meant by that line.
The most obvious interpretation is that she knows the future, and she doesn't want Cloud to subject himself to any guilt over her death. But why would he need to be in love with her to feel guilty about her death?
Another interpretation is that she knows his feelings for her are merely copied from Zack, she sees how close Cloud and Tifa are, and she's simply trying to steer him onto the correct course.
I doubt it's a meta-warning to the audience, as @Master Bates says however.
It's a very odd line either way.
Final_Heaven
Pro Adventurer
It sounds like it's both.
1) She's going to die soon and the stronger his feelings are for her, the more it'll hurt him.
2) She realizes that Cloud's feelings aren't coming from the real him and is also a reference to him not being truly himself. That's something she mentions her Golden Saucer date with Cloud in the OG as well.
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
/\ It's good to know that Aerith's line in JP was actually "Even if you do, It's just your imagination!" so I leaning more towards it being a reference to Cloud's not being truly himself and a nod to what she said to him in her Golden Saucer date than a foreshadow to her death ( even tho the pose she makes and what she says earlier about how everyone eventually dies could be interpreted more towards the latter assumption).
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Purple
Charmed
I interpret it as her not wanting him to get hurt and at the same her knowing he is messed up in the head
I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.
But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality. The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.
All I’m saying is, I really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene
I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.
I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.
But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality. The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.
All I’m saying is, I really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene
I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Why? We are talking about telepathy here after all.
----
On an unrelated note, I just want to say that I'm proud of everyone that there hasn't been any shitposting in here in a few wee --
Well there will always be the fact that "they thought/knew they might be going to their deaths the next morning," which is true.
I'd argue they ended the debate by killing one of them
Unless you provide the data, formula, entire computation and process at how you arrived at such conclusion I will not believe you.
Although I'm of the opinion that the debate ended by the end of OG disc 1.
Well, nevermind. =|
MasterMoogle
Pro Adventurer
Whoops, sorry. Will try to avoid it in the future.
Anyways, was it a dream? or was it actually Aerith from inside the Shinra research lab? None of them acknowledged it afterwards.
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Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
You should listen to the Japanese VA during that scene. It doesn't bring the point home as hard as the English version does.
I believe it was a dream. After the sequence Cloud woke up.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Me? I was referring to the "Don't I get a say in all this" comment during the dream sequence.
In Japanese the VA roughly translates to " That is one sided"
Edited to add: The Japanese version doesn't have the same impact on this situation as the English dubs.
This threw me off too. The whole Hojo's lab reunion between Cloud and Aerith felt... anticlimactic? I was expecting more, but instead we got Cloud going "yep" and Tifa actually being the one to run up to Aerith and ask if she's okay.
Then for the scene in Aerith's room, Cloud wakes up to Tifa's face and his only words to Aerith are something like, "tell us what's going on, there's so much we don't know." Instead, we get Aerith and Barret bonding over the Cetra, which I loved, and Tifa protecting Aerith from the Whispers. And then Tifa saves Cloud on the roof after the Rufus fight, which is like, the last "shippy" moment in the game, I think. (Aside from Aerith and Zack's thing at the end.)
Honestly loved having the whole team together, it felt like a true ragtag team of misfits. I can't wait for everyone else to show up.
Purple
Charmed
Well “that is one sided” could also be interpreted in different ways and could also be up for debate I guess
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
It's suspiciously similar to the train car in Evangelion. When the characters need to have an important conversation at a specific point, but the narrative logistics are unfavorable.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Thank you Tres, appreciated
**
"You came for me" is already a CxA motif from OG and Advent, and something those invested in them would appreciate. It didn't have to be more than that. Sometimes simple is best.
**
"You came for me" is already a CxA motif from OG and Advent, and something those invested in them would appreciate. It didn't have to be more than that. Sometimes simple is best.
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Final_Heaven
Pro Adventurer
The Ultimanias or compilation never really address whether Cloud is attracted to Aerith or how attracted he is to her if so. That part is left to people's imagination mostly where you can interpret the info given in a lot of different ways.
To me, it felt like they super-concentrated all the Cloud x Aerith shipping moments into Chapters 8-9.
And then it gradually stops from there.
If you don't get the optional scene, their last ship moment is in Chapter 11.
And then Chapter 12-18 are a lot more Tifa x Cloud moments although mostly expressed via actions which makes sense with their modus operandi "Words aren't the only way to show people how you feel".
Maidenofwar
They/Them
The entire storm the Shinra building to get Aerith back is a CxA moment , one big huge entire thing, as the Wall Market mission is CxT although it doesn't undermine any other CxA or CxT things within those chapters, it still applies.
I' mean there must be a reason why Aerith suddenly believes Cloud feelings for her would only be a illusion and the first explanation that comes to my mind is the entire Zack/Cloud situation. I don't think she is lying or trying to manipulate him into not loving her, the way how she says that line and how she looks him straight into the eyes without flinching while caressing his cheek makes that idea just very unlikely, that's not her character.
Final_Heaven
Pro Adventurer
Eeeeh. I don't consider either of those situations to be C x A or C x T things.
To be shipping material, it has to involve a moment between the two.
I don't know, it's so different from the way how the OG handled the entire thing. I mean even having Cloud (and Tifa too) agreeing not to go after her immediately feels so weird, I mean it's explained with Elmyra pleading them not too, but still, both know what kind of enemy Shinra is, having Tifa do pull ups while Aerith is in hands of Shinra felt weird. I feel like they really tried to tone the entire CloudxAerith thing down.
Final_Heaven
Pro Adventurer
It's a complicated thing in the fandom to talk about. I think the two big interpretations are:
1) Cloud is feeling Zack's feelings which is why Aerith calls them not real because they come from someone else.
or
2) Because Cloud is not Cloud but some messed up conflict of personalities, those feelings are then invalid (to Aerith anyway) because they don't come from his true self. They stem from the fake persona that was created and so they don't originate from the real Cloud.
I go more with the latter than the former.
I think someone on this thread went through how they actually cut down on a lot of Aerith x Cloud moments from Midgar and gave Cloud x Tifa a lot more moments.
My theory is that because the story is going to be in installments, they had to find ways to boost Tifa's presence (overall and also lovewise) as Midgar was very Aerith-focused and it would've angered fans if Aerith got most of the moments with Cloud.
My other theory is that they're planning have Aerith live a little longer so they don't have to rev the engine as hard as they did in the OG.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I feel the opposite, I feel they made it even more specific here that it was about getting Aerith back this time more so than even in OG where it was also implied it was also about Sephiroth, the Ancients, etc, that Cloud wanted to find and learn more about other things, I felt that wasn't as big a focus this time.