SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[MasterMoogle]

Advent Children ends with Cloud searching for the alternate universe where Aerith Lives, remake suggested it first

Anyways, one aspect I dislike about the depiction of the FF7 romance is this idea that Tifa was kinda just like... waiting around for Cloud for her entire adolescence. To me, the likeliness of her having a some kind of romantic life before finding Cloud again is probably higher than not. Even worse is the idea that Aerith and Zack's relationship was 100% chaste - that's just not super believable to me.

I think part of that shock comes from people who grew up in populated areas, going to school with hundreds(if not thousands) of people their own age. Plenty of opportunity. Tifa probably didn't have as many opportunities to meet someone.

As for Aerith and Zack, they did date for a year and a half. I agree, they probably did reach a certain point in their relationship where clothing was optional.

It kinda rubs me the wrong way, mostly because of the weird puritanical type of implications, and especially when it's being applied to both girls.

To be fair, Cloud isn't pictured with any other girl either, even before the Nibelheim incident. As for Zack, he was 16 when he and Aerith started dating. By the time he was 18, he was Hojo's guinea pig.

In any case, Aerith isn't innocent, and that's a good thing.

I disagree. She proved how innocent she was when she implied that she honestly thought Corneo was looking for a wife.

Corneo: "Today's bride-to-be is . . . "
Aerith: "Today's?!"

 

[ForceStealer]

To be fair, Cloud isn't pictured with any other girl either, even before the Nibelheim incident.

I mean, joining the army at 14, and then from 16 until 21 you're floating in a test tube. That's not a whole lot of dating opportunity

I disagree. She proved how innocent she was when she implied that she honestly thought Corneo was looking for a wife.

Corneo: "Today's bride-to-be is . . . "
Aerith: "Today's?!"

Eh. I think anyone could have reacted to that statement that way. Doesn't require innocence. Cloud didn't call him "pathetic" until after that, either.

 

[Edley]

I hope in the remake they imbue Aerith with the ratchet ho from the ghetto she always had in her

I vaguely recall there being some material that described it as innocent or something. I was just always like naw thats garbage let Aerith fuck her boyfriend.

@looneymoon I was searching to find it and I did! Somebody should send that to Aerith's VA.

On second thought, lets not do that.

 

[Final_Heaven]

While I get the subtle difference in translation there, I still think it's pretty clear what she's saying in English, lol

True. I just watched another streamer watch that scene today and she knew right away once it faded to black that they boned. She actually thought they made it too obvious and lewd.

 

[MasterMoogle]

Backtracked a bit in the thread and found some discussion about the Resolution scenes. For what it's worth, I have a friend who's playing through the game completely blind — knows nothing about FF7, the world, the characters, who lives/dies, etc. — and she got Aerith's resolution scene. She did all the sidequests for both and chose Tifa in the sewers, died, then chose Aerith. I haven't asked her about shipping preferences, and Barret's her favorite character.

Her text to me after she got it: "'Don't fall in love with me'? That's like, pretty condescending and self-aggrandizing to tell someone you've known for 24 hours."

Just anecdotal, but take that as you will.

That would explain why there was so much discussion with the developers whether or not to include that line. I also saw a first time FF7 player on stream say that it’s “the most egotistical thing” to say. I guess for some new players the significance of the line will just fly by over their heads but I guess most new players would still be intrigued with that line

Aerith's warning was not to Cloud; it was a meta-warning to the players, because if we fall in love with her and she dies, the pain is going to hurt so bad.

I can already feel it. The hurt.

They shouldn't have included that line. It went too far. It made Aerith come off as presumptuous. That said, I'm still not entirely sure what she meant by that line.

The most obvious interpretation is that she knows the future, and she doesn't want Cloud to subject himself to any guilt over her death. But why would he need to be in love with her to feel guilty about her death?

Another interpretation is that she knows his feelings for her are merely copied from Zack, she sees how close Cloud and Tifa are, and she's simply trying to steer him onto the correct course.

I doubt it's a meta-warning to the audience, as @Master Bates says however.

It's a very odd line either way.

 

[Final_Heaven]

They shouldn't have included that line. It went too far. It made Aerith come off as presumptuous. That said, I'm still not entirely sure what she meant by that line.

The most obvious interpretation is that she knows the future, and she doesn't want Cloud to subject himself to any guilt over her death. But why would he need to be in love with her to feel guilty about her death?

Another interpretation is that she knows his feelings for her are merely copied from Zack, she sees how close Cloud and Tifa are, and she's simply trying to steer him onto the correct course.

I doubt it's a meta-warning to the audience, as @Master Bates says however.

It's a very odd line either way.

It sounds like it's both.

1) She's going to die soon and the stronger his feelings are for her, the more it'll hurt him.

2) She realizes that Cloud's feelings aren't coming from the real him and is also a reference to him not being truly himself. That's something she mentions her Golden Saucer date with Cloud in the OG as well.

 

[Yumelinh]

/\ It's good to know that Aerith's line in JP was actually "Even if you do, It's just your imagination!" so I leaning more towards it being a reference to Cloud's not being truly himself and a nod to what she said to him in her Golden Saucer date than a foreshadow to her death ( even tho the pose she makes and what she says earlier about how everyone eventually dies could be interpreted more towards the latter assumption).

 

[Purple]

I interpret it as her not wanting him to get hurt and at the same her knowing he is messed up in the head

I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.

But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality. The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.

All I’m saying is, I really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene

I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.

But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality.

Why? We are talking about telepathy here after all.
----


On an unrelated note, I just want to say that I'm proud of everyone that there hasn't been any shitposting in here in a few wee --

That's the thing though, the devs ALREADY ended the debate with the Highwind scene. Cleriths just refused to accept that as proof.

And like I said before, the relationship between CxA was practically nonexistent before she died.

Well there will always be the fact that "they thought/knew they might be going to their deaths the next morning," which is true.

I'd argue they ended the debate by killing one of them

Unless you provide the data, formula, entire computation and process at how you arrived at such conclusion I will not believe you.

Although I'm of the opinion that the debate ended by the end of OG disc 1.

But high-fives!

Well, nevermind. =|

 

[MasterMoogle]

Why? We are talking about telepathy here after all.
----


On an unrelated note, I just want to say that I'm proud of everyone that there hasn't been any shitposting in here in a few wee --


Well, nevermind. =|

Whoops, sorry. Will try to avoid it in the future.

Anyways, was it a dream? or was it actually Aerith from inside the Shinra research lab? None of them acknowledged it afterwards.

 

[Graymouse]

I interpret it as her not wanting him to get hurt and at the same her knowing he is messed up in the head

I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.

But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality. The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.

All I’m saying is, I really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene

I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.

You should listen to the Japanese VA during that scene. It doesn't bring the point home as hard as the English version does.

Whoops, sorry.

Anyways, was it a dream? or was it actually Aerith from inside the Shinra research lab? None of them acknowledged it afterwards.

I believe it was a dream. After the sequence Cloud woke up.

 

[Purple]

^ Which point exactly are you talking about?

 

[Graymouse]

^ Which point exactly are you talking about?

Me? I was referring to the "Don't I get a say in all this" comment during the dream sequence.

In Japanese the VA roughly translates to " That is one sided"

Edited to add: The Japanese version doesn't have the same impact on this situation as the English dubs.

 

[minami758]

The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.

This threw me off too. The whole Hojo's lab reunion between Cloud and Aerith felt... anticlimactic? I was expecting more, but instead we got Cloud going "yep" and Tifa actually being the one to run up to Aerith and ask if she's okay. Not that I'm complaining, Aerti rights!

Then for the scene in Aerith's room, Cloud wakes up to Tifa's face and his only words to Aerith are something like, "tell us what's going on, there's so much we don't know." Instead, we get Aerith and Barret bonding over the Cetra, which I loved, and Tifa protecting Aerith from the Whispers. And then Tifa saves Cloud on the roof after the Rufus fight, which is like, the last "shippy" moment in the game, I think. (Aside from Aerith and Zack's thing at the end.)

Honestly loved having the whole team together, it felt like a true ragtag team of misfits. I can't wait for everyone else to show up.

 

[Purple]

Me? I was referring to the "Don't I get a say in all this" comment during the dream sequence.

In Japanese the VA roughly translates to " That is one sided"

Edited to add: The Japanese version doesn't have the same impact on this situation as the English dubs.

Well “that is one sided” could also be interpreted in different ways and could also be up for debate I guess

 

[null]

Anyways, was it a dream? or was it actually Aerith from inside the Shinra research lab? None of them acknowledged it afterwards.

It's suspiciously similar to the train car in Evangelion. When the characters need to have an important conversation at a specific point, but the narrative logistics are unfavorable.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Thank you Tres, appreciated

Spoiler

**

"You came for me" is already a CxA motif from OG and Advent, and something those invested in them would appreciate. It didn't have to be more than that. Sometimes simple is best.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I interpret it as her not wanting him to get hurt and at the same her knowing he is messed up in the head

I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.

But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality. The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.

All I’m saying is, I really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene

I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.

The Ultimanias or compilation never really address whether Cloud is attracted to Aerith or how attracted he is to her if so. That part is left to people's imagination mostly where you can interpret the info given in a lot of different ways.

This threw me off too. The whole Hojo's lab reunion between Cloud and Aerith felt... anticlimactic? I was expecting more, but instead we got Cloud going "yep" and Tifa actually being the one to run up to Aerith and ask if she's okay. Not that I'm complaining, Aerti rights!

Then for the scene in Aerith's room, Cloud wakes up to Tifa's face and his only words to Aerith are something like, "tell us what's going on, there's so much we don't know." Instead, we get Aerith and Barret bonding over the Cetra, which I loved, and Tifa protecting Aerith from the Whispers. And then Tifa saves Cloud on the roof after the Rufus fight, which is like, the last "shippy" moment in the game, I think. (Aside from Aerith and Zack's thing at the end.)

Honestly loved having the whole team together, it felt like a true ragtag team of misfits. I can't wait for everyone else to show up.

To me, it felt like they super-concentrated all the Cloud x Aerith shipping moments into Chapters 8-9.

And then it gradually stops from there.

If you don't get the optional scene, their last ship moment is in Chapter 11.

And then Chapter 12-18 are a lot more Tifa x Cloud moments although mostly expressed via actions which makes sense with their modus operandi "Words aren't the only way to show people how you feel".

 

[Maidenofwar]

The entire storm the Shinra building to get Aerith back is a CxA moment , one big huge entire thing, as the Wall Market mission is CxT although it doesn't undermine any other CxA or CxT things within those chapters, it still applies.

 

[a_apple]

I interpret it as her not wanting him to get hurt and at the same her knowing he is messed up in the head

I think “Don’t I get a say in all this?” is much more interesting and more open for debate because to me it implies Cloud is somehow falling for her at this point. At least that is my knee-jerk interpretation.

But at the same time he’s only known her for 48 hours (but maybe it’s just a crush at this point?) and this is just a dream. It would’ve been a much different talking point if it happened in reality. The lack of pay off at Shinra HQ also throws me off because Cloud was like “yep” when he saw her again and so many other shippy moments were given to Tifa instead.

All I’m saying is, I really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene

I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.

I' mean there must be a reason why Aerith suddenly believes Cloud feelings for her would only be a illusion and the first explanation that comes to my mind is the entire Zack/Cloud situation. I don't think she is lying or trying to manipulate him into not loving her, the way how she says that line and how she looks him straight into the eyes without flinching while caressing his cheek makes that idea just very unlikely, that's not her character.

 

[Final_Heaven]

The entire storm the Shinra building to get Aerith back is a CxA moment as the Wall Market mission is CxT although it doesn't undermine any other CxA or CxT things within those chapters, it still applies.

Eeeeh. I don't consider either of those situations to be C x A or C x T things.

To be shipping material, it has to involve a moment between the two.

 

[a_apple]

The entire storm the Shinra building to get Aerith back is a CxA moment as the Wall Market mission is CxT although it doesn't undermine any other CxA or CxT things within those chapters, it still applies.

I don't know, it's so different from the way how the OG handled the entire thing. I mean even having Cloud (and Tifa too) agreeing not to go after her immediately feels so weird, I mean it's explained with Elmyra pleading them not too, but still, both know what kind of enemy Shinra is, having Tifa do pull ups while Aerith is in hands of Shinra felt weird. I feel like they really tried to tone the entire CloudxAerith thing down.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I’m of the belief that Cloud didn’t get Zack’s feelings when he died, only his memories as SOLDIER. So I think all the attraction he feels/felt towards Aerith is him. Then again, it’s been so long since I’ve read compilation canon so I’m not sure if it was stated somewhere otherwise.

It's a complicated thing in the fandom to talk about. I think the two big interpretations are:

1) Cloud is feeling Zack's feelings which is why Aerith calls them not real because they come from someone else.

or

2) Because Cloud is not Cloud but some messed up conflict of personalities, those feelings are then invalid (to Aerith anyway) because they don't come from his true self. They stem from the fake persona that was created and so they don't originate from the real Cloud.

I go more with the latter than the former.

I don't know, it's so different from the way how the OG handled the entire thing. I mean even having Cloud (and Tifa too) agreeing not to go after her immediately feels so weird, I mean it's explained with Elmyra pleading them not too, but still, both know what kind of enemy Shinra is, having Tifa do pull ups while Aerith is in hands of Shinra felt weird. I feel like they really tried to tone the entire CloudxAerith thing down.

I think someone on this thread went through how they actually cut down on a lot of Aerith x Cloud moments from Midgar and gave Cloud x Tifa a lot more moments.

My theory is that because the story is going to be in installments, they had to find ways to boost Tifa's presence (overall and also lovewise) as Midgar was very Aerith-focused and it would've angered fans if Aerith got most of the moments with Cloud.

My other theory is that they're planning have Aerith live a little longer so they don't have to rev the engine as hard as they did in the OG.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I feel the opposite, I feel they made it even more specific here that it was about getting Aerith back this time more so than even in OG where it was also implied it was also about Sephiroth, the Ancients, etc, that Cloud wanted to find and learn more about other things, I felt that wasn't as big a focus this time.

 

[eleamaya]

To me, it felt like they super-concentrated all the Cloud x Aerith shipping moments into Chapters 8-9.

It's funny 'cause entire chapter 8 is under Zack shadow from the fell to the church 'til playground from Aerith's POV.
and entire chapter 9 is under a Tifa's shadow 'cause it's a mission to rescue her from Cloud's POV.

But of course, I still call it their moment. But we don't really get one pure CxA moment that it's really about 'em except the first meeting and the dream.