SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
I think there are many ways to work around the "words are not the only way" but still have a firm acknowledgement of Cloud's feelings, that are plot relevant and true to character

Some off the top of head examples:

- Squall monologue when Rinoa is comatose that he's already fallen for her, but the save from edea and space scene happens later. There can always be a in-Cloud's consciousness monologue where he realizes his feelings for her that audience but not Tifa is privy to

- 3rd party intervention ala Barret at Gold Saucer. Party member / nurse at mideel / whoever outrightly says he should express his feelings for her, he acknowledges this, tries to, fumbles with the "so many things i wanted to tell you", leads up to highwind scene

- Good-old say it to the person when the person is asleep out of timidity, but cannot do it face to face cos awkwardness. What is important is the audience is told Cloud's feelings are irrefutable

You guys just need to watch more K drama.
:D

Whether or not SE does it is another matter
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
There can always be a in-Cloud's consciousness monologue where he realizes his feelings for her that audience but not Tifa is privy to
Nah it’s not possible, the LS scene in itself is a love confession. It’s where they realise that the other loves them. So if it must be said I think it’s there, but Tifa’s line is fine; she already knew his feelings in the OG at that moment.

For the hand holding being more romantic than a kiss, I heard it was a JP CA who lied to them like that; they didn’t think there were other JP on Twitter who could tell a lie 🙃
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
All I can say is I’d be disappointed if they didn’t make it clear. I’m not a fan from OG, I’m a fan of Remake. So if they don’t scratch my itch to see where Cloud and Tifa AND Zack and Aerith go then it’d put a damper on the story for me.

Edit: One of my biggest pet peeves in story telling is for them to show things that eventually amount to nothing. When I replay/re-read/re-watch it bothers me because I’m just like “what was the point of detailing this when it goes nowhere”.
Game of Thrones summed up XD
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Game of Thrones summed up XD
OMG that is exactly what I was thinking of lmao. It’s so unfortunate because it’s in the very first episode even. You’re like welp this amounts to nothing.

So PLEASE SE!!! I need a good ending, I don’t know what that is, but it needs to be good so I don’t lose replay value. 🙏
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
I believe he also claimed to have shown his girlfriend's 3rd grade class AC as an experiment to see which of the ladies Cloud was in love with.
Besides the fact that this is so weird, why would this ever be relevant to a debate?! Are they trying to prove only people who (almost definitely) can't interpret media properly, and people missing basically all the context would think Clerith is canon? Ironic, to say the least.

Somehow I feel like Marlene and arguments surrounding stuff she says was an inspiration for that.

I think I may have legitimately broken BB's brain.
and yet no matter how broken they are, they'll never concede that Cloud's promised land isn't the church. Even though, yet again, that directly contradicts the message Advent Children is trying to send.

Dissidia is the one they insisted was Clerith because of the flower field in the ending and the half finished line. 012 is where it clobbers you over the head that the one Cloud wants to meet is Tifa.
Not going to lie, that does seem highly sus and sounds like intentional fuel for the LTD having him say that while a bunch of flowers surround him. But like, Cloud doesn't remember who Aerith is in Dissidia, no? So how could he be talking about her?

I'm still not sure where the idea that holding hands was the truest expression of love came from. That and the idea that Lover's tie only refers to that.
Same answer as always, starts with c- and ends with -ope.

You have to get so invested in games you never play. Remember with Itadaki/ Fortune Street was absolutely proving C/A canon, only for Aerith and Angelo from FF8 to flirt in their interactions on the board? (Also remember it's mario party/ monopoly for Enix characters)
And also when Aerith says to Cloud that Tifa would make a great wife, to which he replies; "I wonder who Tifa likes."

and how the opening oddly draws more parallels with other "canon" pairings with Cloud and Tifa than it does with Cloud and Aerith. Hilarious. Imagine having to refer to stuff like a mario party type spinoff crossover instead of the actual compilation material, and it's not even in your favour.
Hardcore Clerith arguments change moment to moment to argue against a specific thing. There is no need for narrative synthesis when Aerith is winning, after all.
This is the thing. Whenever I rarely argue with a Clerith it's never with the intention to actually change their mind, that's never going to happen. It's for the poor onlooker who happens upon the thread/reply chain. It's genuinely so easy to poke holes in their arguments that you never really have to try very hard in the first place. Just have to point out the lack of logic being used and then you can safely leave.

-------

Something else, in Dirge of Cerberus, Barret is living in Seventh Heaven again right?

This is based off of the assumption that Seventh Heaven doesn't have any more than three bedrooms, since I don't think it's ever been shown or implied to have more than that, anymore than that and I think I would honestly be questioning how rough times really were if they were able to setup a four (or more) bedroom house in the middle of a city, that's also a bar. Even in the event that Cloud and Tifa didn't share a room pre-AC, I'm struggling to think of sleeping arrangements here that makes sense that doesn't have Cloud and Tifa sharing a room. If I'm not leaving anything out or forgetting something, then any arrangement other than this one would raise more questions than answers, honestly:

Cloud and Tifa take one room
The children take another
Barret takes the third one.
Game of Thrones summed up XD
OMG that is exactly what I was thinking of lmao. It’s so unfortunate because it’s in the very first episode even. You’re like welp this amounts to nothing.
Even though I've never seen it, I vote they should just pretend the final season never happened and carry on from there.
 
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Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Lore question but did the Jenova cells create Clouds memories to the will of Jenova or just as cells to stabalize Cloud
and did she take Tifa's memories of Cloud to decive Tifa?
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Lore question but did the Jenova cells create Clouds memories to the will of Jenova or just as cells to stabalize Cloud
and did she take Tifa's memories of Cloud to decive Tifa?
Jenova imprinted Cloud’s memories with Zack’s when Zack died. However it’s only when Cloud saw Tifa that he truly awakened.

Jenova then read Tifa’s memories and saw that she thought Cloud was a SOLDIER. It’s then that Cloud’s fake personality was born, a mix of his, Sephiroth and Zack’s personalities with Zack’s memories to create what Cloud thought was the perfect SOLDIER.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
I got around to finally doing all the Gold Saucer dates for the play log earlier today and while doing Aeriths, it hit me but how does she have time to actually join the play with the others when she's not even present in the auditorium when the others jump in with their VR goggles?

There's also the fact that surely she needs some time to prepare for her song too while the play is happening, couse we jump right into it after the play, considering everyone is still wearing their outfits.

I genuinely don't think Aerith made sense to be the default Rosa pick for all the guys either because of this. Kinda wish now they made Tifa the default Rosa instead and let Yuffie play some other role in the play too and just let Aerith do the song so each girl could have their own defined roles in the whole thing each time.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Jenova imprinted Cloud’s memories with Zack’s when Zack died. However it’s only when Cloud saw Tifa that he truly awakened.

Jenova then read Tifa’s memories and saw that she thought Cloud was a SOLDIER. It’s then that Cloud’s fake personality was born, a mix of his, Sephiroth and Zack’s personalities with Zack’s memories to create what Cloud thought was the perfect SOLDIER.
so where the jenova cells acting on their own or from jenovas will? i was in a argument/discussion of someone saying Jenova took Tifa's expectation of what a adult Cloud would be like to create his persona. But i thought it just took her childhood memories of him. This person was saying it took memories from Tifa of Cloud in order to decieve Tifa? in which it would be how Tifa thought an adult Cloud should act?
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
so where the jenova cells acting on their own or from jenovas will? i was in a argument/discussion of someone saying Jenova took Tifa's expectation of what a adult Cloud would be like to create his persona. But i thought it just took her childhood memories of him. This person was saying it took memories from Tifa of Cloud in order to decieve Tifa? in which it would be how Tifa thought an adult Cloud should act?
It’s Cloud’s mind reacting to Tifa.

Keep in mind that Cloud had no reason to believe Tifa was alive before she finds him at the train station. ( you could almost say, he was Hollow… I’ll leave )

So the way I like to explain is that Cloud’s mind provides the bricks, and Jenova is the mortar.

Zack turned the lights on when he died, but nobody was home. Tifa triggers Cloud’s mind to construct the persona based on the version of himself that he thinks he should be. That’s why Tifa is put off by the parts of his persona pinched from Sephiroth and is neutral/confused on his more Zack traits.
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
Oh yes. By all means, throw bullshit at your heros and heroines, but have them conquer those hardships through luck, pluck, and their own attributes.

This for days.

Funnily enough they're also involved in the biggest "love debate" in the FE fandom because as I mentioned, they are characters in a prequel game to the one that stars their kids, and for the longest time who the mother was had never been officially confirmed. It seems to have died down with the coming of the gacha game and their interactions there. (The plot is vaguely like Dissidia in that it's an excuse to have a bunch of characters who could never meet show up and fight together).

Gacha ruins everything :awesome: And yeah that kind of crossover was a popular trend for a bit. I try to forget Castlevania attempted it.

And when they argued against the bullshit argument I gave no credit to, I'd point out what they were doing and point out how their arguments hurt their own positions.

To be fair, nearly everything they said hurt their positions in some way. Even if just by wrecking their credibility.

You have to get so invested in games you never play.

For quite a few CAltist types, you just described the OG :muhaha:

Remember with Itadaki/ Fortune Street was absolutely proving C/A canon, only for Aerith and Angelo from FF8 to flirt in their interactions on the board? (Also remember it's mario party/ monopoly for Enix characters)

I do recall that, if only thanks to some shit posting along the lines of "And to think you keep calling Tifa a slut while Aerith is trying to bone Angelo."


The wrong lesson in the end, but they learned something.

As I said, it's like progress.

I told you how I realized she was actually trying to throw that line back in my face because I said it to her regarding things like "They formed a family together, they share a future together, she's a special woman to him, he belongs with her. It's just common sense that the person she'd be the beloved of is that man."

Indeed. After a while she just tacked it onto everything like punctuation.

I think I may have legitimately broken BB's brain.

It was cracked when you got there. Shatterpoint happened.

Yeah, hearing the actual emotion in Cloud's voice and the difference in the way he cares about both women must be smarting.

Someone put up a Rebirth Cloti interaction montage. These fries are bland, I could use some salt :awesome:

I do the same. It's funny because my wife will call them a little fucker and still feel bad when I plonk a rock on their head.

I mean, they did steal Hestu's ability to play his maracas and hide from him as a prank. Little fucker certainly applies. But then they're tiny and cute and they love Mr. Hero and want to help so bad. So yeah, both positions coexist just fine.

It would require actual acts of reflection and perhaps contrition. Especially for all the peddled lies.

Contrition from people like BB. I'm definitely not gonna hold my breath, that's for sure.

It's not even before all the weirdness starts like the game pretends and there's so many places to put a death or near death experience later in the game. Like if you told me Squall momentarily does die at the end of the game but is pulled back at the end due to his connection with Rinoa anchoring him in time, I'd believe that.

I'm now picturing Squall in Wally West's Flash suit. I blame you for this.

I'd say it needed to be established better, 8 needed more time in the oven in the localization at the very minimum, but I could see it.

This is why I try not to complain molain about long development times. So many bad games that could have been good, good games that could have been great. Just need to bake a bit more.

Angelalex was the guy who was very very adamant that Cloud was searching for Aerith in the end of AC and would reunite with her in the flower fields for spirit sex. He wrote a fanfic about it. I believe he also claimed to have shown his girlfriend's 3rd grade class AC as an experiment to see which of the ladies Cloud was in love with.
He also got very mad if you called him Angela Lex.

Oh ew, now I remember. Flower field spirit sex is one of the wildest fuckin' takes of all time. And I recall a sort of hushed silence over everything after they dragged kids into this. Before the floodgate opened, anyway.

They were fun.

Very much worth a laugh.

They're not even all that good at it, either.

They're really not.

Indeed. But anything for their desired outcome, natch.

At all costs and whatnot.

You give them the benefit of the doubt, basically.

Enough benefit to not see the true depths they sink to at least.

The CAltist is a toxic animal native to the internet, if you come across one...

Attenborough voice? It works.

Oh yeah, it's still more than a 5:1 difference.

I like those odds.

If I ever get around to it I plan to stream it somehow.

Sounds like a plan.

Pretty much.


Not parsing this one, but that's because my brain is stuck on Lawrence Welk and he's a musician not a reporter.

Lawrence Welk was my first thought too, it felt too obvious for me. I think I went too far the other way. Also that the news man I had in mind is less old timey than I thought... I may have partially conflated the two actually.

Alright, we'll bring out... the tingler.

I suddenly feel like I need a couple drinks. Wonder what that's all about.

Yuffie: The lesson is, I need to cheat harder.
Cloud: THAT IS NOT THE LESSON.

Surprisingly it was Barret who chuckled and said "It kinda is."

That's a good coffee shop name.

Inorite? That and Brewed Awakening were my jams.

One minute the corner's empty, the next, Vincent.

I'll say this for Rebirth Vinnie, he looks like someone who could mag dump on some dumbass kid without flinching. It's those eyes.

I'm flexible with my weaponry.

Same. Could swear I recall you having a particular fondness for battle axes though.

I like it too but it's an easy punchline to make given it's the previous FF movie and was generally poorly received. So much of that falls on the decision to call it FINAL FANTASY The Spirits Within rather than The Spirits Within a final fantasy movie.

You gave a point, it really set the wrong expectations.

Exactly. People gotta be willing to want to learn though.

Tis the way of the world.

Oh it's an old one. Might be a bit regional.

Then in the interest of accuracy, I'll amend my statement. I hope it catches on around here :monster:

And at times, that is absolutely the way to do things. He just never modulated his response even an iota.

Vendel didn't have any settings under 10, and mostly the knob was stuck on 11.

Phone companies, IIRC. You got a phone number and an email account when you bought a phone plan, and the two were tied together.

That's wild.

That it is.

At least it was slightly more subtle on-screen than some examples we could name.

Dissidia is the one they insisted was Clerith because of the flower field in the ending and the half finished line. 012 is where it clobbers you over the head that the one Cloud wants to meet is Tifa.

Skull caved in levels of clobbering.

Some people need to dots connected for them.

We have you for that :awesome:

I'm still not sure where the idea that holding hands was the truest expression of love came from. That and the idea that Lover's tie only refers to that.

A desperate desire for it to be true. That's where it's coming from.

Denial is a powerful drug.

Its one of the main ingredients in Copium after all.

Hardcore Clerith arguments change moment to moment to argue against a specific thing. There is no need for narrative synthesis when Aerith is winning, after all.

The only argument they have is Aerith Wins Cause I Want Her To. The rest is just window dressing.


Free? I'll take a dozen of everyone, then.

Wow, your pantry is way more spacious than mine.

Oh, you meant Libre, not Gratis. Darn.

Win.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I got around to finally doing all the Gold Saucer dates for the play log earlier today and while doing Aeriths, it hit me but how does she have time to actually join the play with the others when she's not even present in the auditorium when the others jump in with their VR goggles?

There's also the fact that surely she needs some time to prepare for her song too while the play is happening, couse we jump right into it after the play, considering everyone is still wearing their outfits.

I genuinely don't think Aerith made sense to be the default Rosa pick for all the guys either because of this. Kinda wish now they made Tifa the default Rosa instead and let Yuffie play some other role in the play too and just let Aerith do the song so each girl could have their own defined roles in the whole thing each time.
The reason why Aerith is used as Rosa is because Tifa and Yuffie have special scenes with Cloud during the song. So to not take away from the guys and Red’s scenes with Cloud during the song, they had Aerith as Rosa since she’s the only one who doesn’t really overshadow Barret and co.

I still say that Rosa’s dress was created for Tifa though.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
The reason why Aerith is used as Rosa is because Tifa and Yuffie have special scenes with Cloud during the song. So to not take away from the guys and Red’s scenes with Cloud during the song, they had Aerith as Rosa since she’s the only one who doesn’t really overshadow Barret and co.

I still say that Rosa’s dress was created for Tifa though.
Every time I think of Loveless I think of how each girl could have been given the same spin but Tifa gets a different one.

IMG_1325.png
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
The reason why Aerith is used as Rosa is because Tifa and Yuffie have special scenes with Cloud during the song. So to not take away from the guys and Red’s scenes with Cloud during the song, they had Aerith as Rosa since she’s the only one who doesn’t really overshadow Barret and co.

I still say that Rosa’s dress was created for Tifa though.
They could've easily just made Tifa and Yuffie just stand there with the rest of the guys without a Cloud scene in case you didn't pick either. Just like it is right now where you get those extra scenes based on who is your pick anyway, so it wouldn't take away from anything.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Something I saw a while back and I may be misremembering since it was a while ago but it was something that was lurking, people were saying Gongaga was more neutral in other languages, that Barret was saying she needs us, not she needs you to Cloud, and Tifa was saying don't take them too?, not take Cloud? Of course it's been a while since I played the chapter or read some takes so I might be getting things quite mixed up, but what do others remember or have to say 🤔
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Something I saw a while back and I may be misremembering since it was a while ago but it was something that was lurking, people were saying Gongaga was more neutral in other languages, that Barret was saying she needs us, not she needs you to Cloud, and Tifa was saying don't take them too?, not take Cloud? Of course it's been a while since I played the chapter or read some takes so I might be getting things quite mixed up, but what do others remember or have to say 🤔
Hmmm, I mean even if these two statements are more neutral it doesn’t change Tifa’s memory being with Cloud, Cloud only opening up to Tifa, or them nearly kissing.

I can’t tell what Barret says exactly in Japanese, but I can see him saying she needs us. It’s easy enough to hear Tifa say zenbu kaeshite, which appears to literally mean give it all back, so I don’t know.

If I look at the scene itself it’s of Cloud following Sephiroth, he isn’t “taking” anyone else.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
In French Tifa’s “don’t take them too” is very obviously a mistranslation. I mean it’s only Cloud who’s taken away there and it’s a conversation between Tifa and Sephiroth about Cloud. Not sure about the JP for Barret’s line but this time the FR really has a lot of mistranslations. I mean there are also lots of lines that are also much more pro-CT and are slightly mistranslated.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Something I saw a while back and I may be misremembering since it was a while ago but it was something that was lurking, people were saying Gongaga was more neutral in other languages, that Barret was saying she needs us, not she needs you to Cloud, and Tifa was saying don't take them too?, not take Cloud? Of course it's been a while since I played the chapter or read some takes so I might be getting things quite mixed up, but what do others remember or have to say 🤔

In japanese :
  • Cloud leaving with Sephiroth : やめて ぜんぶ返して ! = Stop ! Give it all back !
  • Barret talking to Cloud : しゃんとしろ ティファを取り返すぞ ! = Get your shit together, we're getting Tifa back!
 
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