I know not everyone was thrilled about Remake being all in Midgar, but I thought scaling it down to just there allowed for way more depth in showing us important details.
Replaying it after Part 3 will be interesting
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Replaying it after Part 3 will be interesting
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's even better in French lol. They roleplay waitress/patron lol it's insane.
It’s a shame because the fact that Cloud feels compelled to even attempt to comfort her and be supportive is adorable in its own right.
Jealous Cloud just glares and simmers lol
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
That's the "sad" part of it. If they would just take the story as it is without their twisted cerebral gymnastics, they might enjoy a sincere and rather cute friendship. A lot of wholesome moments.
And not the pathetic womanizer they hope he is, to justify their ship.
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
It’s interesting to me that “jealousy” came to some people’s minds in that scene.
The one thing that stuck out to me was Cloud’s face when he asks her if she has feelings for Zack. It is so straight, not a sign of anything on it. Throughout the game Cloud’s face is so expressive when he’s annoyed, awkward, shy, jealous, etc.
It was almost like the game was saying “There is nothing behind this question” lol.
The one thing that stuck out to me was Cloud’s face when he asks her if she has feelings for Zack. It is so straight, not a sign of anything on it. Throughout the game Cloud’s face is so expressive when he’s annoyed, awkward, shy, jealous, etc.
It was almost like the game was saying “There is nothing behind this question” lol.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
The Ultimanias suggest he is jealous which is where people get it from.
Anyway the mocap is Cloti biased so of course he'll go with that, forgive me if I take it with a pinch of salt.
You'd think people were monstrous for discussing a normal human emotion like jealousy.
Also it's possible to feel more than one thing.
Cloud can also flirt with Aerith if he wants, OG, Rebirth, "nothing sneaky about it/I took it boldly", etc, and photograph hype is real Cloud.
Anyway the mocap is Cloti biased so of course he'll go with that, forgive me if I take it with a pinch of salt.
You'd think people were monstrous for discussing a normal human emotion like jealousy.
Also it's possible to feel more than one thing.
Cloud can also flirt with Aerith if he wants, OG, Rebirth, "nothing sneaky about it/I took it boldly", etc, and photograph hype is real Cloud.
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Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
I've seen it, but not in some time. Wanted to see what people were spouting.
Also that, yes.
Also Riley, the boy so bland he.... bland.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Yeah people can feel more than one thing as they can have other feelings than love.
Cloud may be introvert but his face show emotions. All kind of emotions. And with a lot of people during the story.
He doesn't show anything during this scene. Just asked the question. It's not even romantic because the game invites Tifa to the scene. A scene where Cloud understands he made a mistake talking about Zack like that and follows Tifa with his eyes when she's leaving. You can see the camera is not showing Aerith anymore. As if he wanted to talk with Tifa about something.
Not really the mindset of someone focused on Aerith in this moment.
So no. He's not jealous. Because we already saw him and he's really bad at hiding it.
Cloud may be introvert but his face show emotions. All kind of emotions. And with a lot of people during the story.
He doesn't show anything during this scene. Just asked the question. It's not even romantic because the game invites Tifa to the scene. A scene where Cloud understands he made a mistake talking about Zack like that and follows Tifa with his eyes when she's leaving. You can see the camera is not showing Aerith anymore. As if he wanted to talk with Tifa about something.
Not really the mindset of someone focused on Aerith in this moment.
So no. He's not jealous. Because we already saw him and he's really bad at hiding it.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I won't be gaslighted into thinking Cloud and Aerith are not a thing, not at all, if they were nothing but friends he wouldn't agree to dating.
I'm sorry but he IS focused on Aerith, especially since this "worry" is something that is brought up four to five times later again in the game.
Some I've seen couldn't stand the fact that Cloud could be jealous like suggested in Ultimania, like Aerith was jealous, like Tifa was jealous, like Zack was jealous, it has to be uncomplicated.
I'm sorry but he IS focused on Aerith, especially since this "worry" is something that is brought up four to five times later again in the game.
Some I've seen couldn't stand the fact that Cloud could be jealous like suggested in Ultimania, like Aerith was jealous, like Tifa was jealous, like Zack was jealous, it has to be uncomplicated.
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abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
When talking about the OG, sure, Cloud and Aerith were a thing. Not past the Northern Crater, though.
Plus, Aerith's ex being Cloud's late best friend is bound to create complications in how he feels towards her, and him remembering specifically
that his dead best friend was head over heels for this girl is relevant, especially with how he acts with her on her Gold Saucer date.
He coldly declines her offer to sit next to her, and in contrast with Tifa's date where he takes every chance he can to gawk at Tifa, Cloud takes every opportunity to not look at Aerith.
First and foremost, to act a character effectively, you need to understand the character. Understanding Cloud is the first step to accurately depicting him on screen. These people aren't like us, they are involved with devs in how they should 'act' the character.
Cloud's actors aren't 'Cloti biased', they just understand the character.
Plus, Aerith's ex being Cloud's late best friend is bound to create complications in how he feels towards her, and him remembering specifically
that his dead best friend was head over heels for this girl is relevant, especially with how he acts with her on her Gold Saucer date.
He coldly declines her offer to sit next to her, and in contrast with Tifa's date where he takes every chance he can to gawk at Tifa, Cloud takes every opportunity to not look at Aerith.
Here's the thing though, since these guys (including the VAs) are actors, they are probably given direction on how to act, what emotions to try and depict etc.
First and foremost, to act a character effectively, you need to understand the character. Understanding Cloud is the first step to accurately depicting him on screen. These people aren't like us, they are involved with devs in how they should 'act' the character.
Cloud's actors aren't 'Cloti biased', they just understand the character.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I'm fairly sure Cloud's mocap is also Zack's mocap unless I'm misunderstanding so of course he's not going to get between that, and I've Clotis citing him as being pro Tifa/Cloti.
Sitting at a distance is a romantic trope (I've just been playing a game again where the leads do the same, right up to the girl closing the distance because the guy kind of doesn't quite get it, and is kind of a goof sometimes) it's -because- he cares, and it's meant to parallel one of their previous dates where they get closer.
People can try to diminish or downplay Aerith's date as much as they want, fact is they used her as the romantic option on Cloud's profile and in the story digest of Rebirth Ultimania, and the developers said some dates were romantic, that's more than one, sure people on both sides can then try to split hairs over which is more romantic or dissect each date as much as possible going over every inch of framing, making OOC edits to make things look bad, etc but in the end they are both romantic even for those who try to make it small romance as much as possible.
Sitting at a distance is a romantic trope (I've just been playing a game again where the leads do the same, right up to the girl closing the distance because the guy kind of doesn't quite get it, and is kind of a goof sometimes) it's -because- he cares, and it's meant to parallel one of their previous dates where they get closer.
People can try to diminish or downplay Aerith's date as much as they want, fact is they used her as the romantic option on Cloud's profile and in the story digest of Rebirth Ultimania, and the developers said some dates were romantic, that's more than one, sure people on both sides can then try to split hairs over which is more romantic or dissect each date as much as possible going over every inch of framing, making OOC edits to make things look bad, etc but in the end they are both romantic even for those who try to make it small romance as much as possible.
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Yoru
Pro Adventurer
I can stand it. I'm just saying it's not the case during chapter 9.
This is the second time he's been told about this Zack dude. It's obvious this girl has trouble letting go of the past. It just makes sense to ask her if she still loves him.
That's like the first thing you ask a friend when they talk to you about someone dearly but gone.
You can still see things the way you want. But how do you think this game will end ? Seriously, I really want to know.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
Is it though? When he declines an obvious invitation to sit next to her and she takes her hand away...looking a bit offended...I don't think that's romantic.
I don't want to be rude, but I don't really think 'sitting at a distance' is a romantic trope. From what I've seen, anyway. And if it is, it certainly does not apply to him being a bit cold towards her during the GS date. Especially not when compared to how he acts on Tifa's GS date.
Just to elaborate on this a bit more. Yes, I think sitting a distance could be a 'romantic' trope when one or both parties are shy. Declining an offer by sighing and then averting your gaze from the person who gave you the invitation is a situation where that probably doesn't apply.
If the translations of what Cloud's mocap had to say about Cloud and Tifa in Gongaga are correct, then yeah, people wouldn't be entirely wrong about him being 'pro-cloti'.
x.com
And I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm quite understanding what you're trying to say here. Why is him being Zack's mocap relevant? what does he not want to get between? Cloti and Zerith?
this is genuine question, not trying to be rude.
---------
Another thing I'd like to add to my point on the actors. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that Brit Baron (Tifa's VA) had qualms about Tifa and Aerith's relationship. So she asked about it, and her questions were answered. So yes, the actors are allowed to ask questions about the characters, and those questions are allowed to be answered.
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Maidenofwar
They/Them
Here is an example-
(from 13.00 minutes)
Like it's not the only time I've seen such a thing in games. If people are supposed to be disheartened, sad, or upset in some way at Cloud here, they mostly aren't imho,
that Cloud's cold and uncaring, nah I don't think so.
Yeah, if I was mocap for two characters I liked, and both had a girl they liked, but one also had another possible romantic interest, and it was the girl one of my main characters love, maybe feeling Aerith is Zack's "girl", I'd probably not want to rock the boat.
Brit Baron iirc also said people should be open minded about fanservice leading both sides to wonder which got just fanservice, but either way it was official content.
(from 13.00 minutes)
Like it's not the only time I've seen such a thing in games. If people are supposed to be disheartened, sad, or upset in some way at Cloud here, they mostly aren't imho,
that Cloud's cold and uncaring, nah I don't think so.
Yeah, if I was mocap for two characters I liked, and both had a girl they liked, but one also had another possible romantic interest, and it was the girl one of my main characters love, maybe feeling Aerith is Zack's "girl", I'd probably not want to rock the boat.
Brit Baron iirc also said people should be open minded about fanservice leading both sides to wonder which got just fanservice, but either way it was official content.
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Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
This is why you're Admiral.
I hate how right you are about this. Let's all remember that Cloti stands up on its own, while Clerith needs to lean on Cloti like it had a few too many at 7th Heaven.
That's
Well, the monkey pairings have a certain feel to them. There are game franchises and companies I could see using monkey pairings to reference a canon ship, tease a popular but unresolved ship, or troll fans of a sunken ship. I could see it, easily... just not from this company in this franchise
The heavier debt still feels like it's owed to Denzel to me, but it is indeed a close thing.
Huh, maybe Marlene and Denzel will be the ones to develop green energy.
Having pity alongside schadenfreude is what keeps us from being 100% dicks right?
Indeed, spoiled for choice is what we are.
If only Demo wasn't my worst class. Especially after they nerfed the Scottish resistance... although I'm told they buffed it, nerfed it twice, and buffed it again since so wtfk at this point.
Rufus gotta keep profits up after the OG somehow. Also who makes Queen's Blood cards?
Self fulfilling, as is right and proper.
It's a mess worth making, however.
Don't be Black Mage, take your time. With a magnifying glass. And a contract lawyer.
The old LTD was pretty much a course on dishonest debate tactics.
Think how stupid the average person is, then take a moment to realize that half of 'em are even stupider than that.
But if course. One of my favorite OG moments will always be everyone telling a different train analogy in unison.
luminous03
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Play
Drop the subtitles pls, i understand french
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Stars are a CA motif (Cloud and Aerith’s star, Cosmo Canyon Absence of a Sign quest) and CT motif as flower are now a CT and CA motif, (flower to Tifa, flower on letter box) well I don't see the point in fighting over and not sharing them.
blink-07
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- blink-07
Wth did I just read…
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I do not think he is Zack's mocap because Zack and Cloud have different heights so it'd be troublesome when animating the films; you might be confused because he was Clive's mocap. I'm pretty sure that if he was Zack's mocap, he'd state it also in his bio in Twitter as it would be a big role too.
Also yes, he is CT biased, but you have to remember that they get directions from the devs, they get storyboards as well as scripts (Yamazaki often cites Cloud's lines in the script while playing even before his VA talks so he's obviously seen it). His comments (and probably liking) don't come off from nowhere: he's one of the few, comparatively, who are "in the know", which is why his comments are interesting. And it's not like he doesn't like Aerith either, hell in Remake I remember him hesitating for the sewer scene between her and Tifa but he said "if it's Cloud, then he'll chose Tifa" before going for Tifa. But he commented that this choice was purely for fans to decide, like he doesn't think the resolutions are all canon. It's just a nice bonus.
Then you have Cody going "not everything is romantic", knowing damn well how chapter 14 went alongside the GS date.
Speaking of the GS date, I think Cloud chosing to not sit next to Aerith is a recurring motif: she is his friend, so he'll always worry and protect her because Aerith is perceived as the most frail in the team (she's chased after by Shinra, she can't climb a mountain, she gets tired from manipulating the Lifestream are good examples of how the game pushes that idea onto the player), but Cloud is "the hero", and her bodyguard. He's not the only one who protects or worries about her, we see Tifa and Red doing that too. But when it comes to Aerith, we have to remember that their park date had them sitting close and her getting in his comfort zone, which he doesn't like at all. And I think her and her dates is exactly the reason why he's on his guard with her, it's only when he notices how lonely she is that he lowers it.
Compare it to the Tifa GS date where you do see him getting closer to Tifa because even though she sat closer at one point, she still wasn't close enough lol. And in Tifa's date you do see him looking at her when she goes "it's beautiful" about the fireworks and getting caught, just like when they were kids; when Aerith talks about the fireworks, he doesn't do the same. There are little difference that show romantic interest vs friendship and care. To me in the Aerith GS date, even though she's interested in him (and that's what makes it romantic), at some point he takes Zack's role because he thinks she wants Zack and a little romance from him. Just like in the play with her, he's somehow playing Zack's role with her (with Loveless being ZA coded). With Tifa, he's been waiting for this since chapter 8 (if you get her there), he also comments that they did indeed missed the gondola ride IIRC, or something like that.
Last, what are you expecting from p3 is what I'm wondering right now. Because I do not think there are going to be lots of CA interactions. We're going to have him talk about her that's for sure, but what if there's no romance from him? What if he confesses to Tifa instead (which I think he does anyway since the LS scene is a big confession scene, only with no "I love you" in the OG at least).
I know CA have overlooked this for several years now but the discrepancy in interpreting the CA scenes is, IMHO, very well explained by Aerith's line "even if you think you have (fallen in love with me), it's just an illusion". We know it's a self warning, but it is also for the players: CA was always meant to be an illusion, something that exists only on Aerith's side but not on Cloud's side. So even if people think he's fallen for Aerith, in the end it is not true as the only girl he's been in love with is Tifa - and this notion is dispelled in the Lifestream scene. As a result, Aerith remains a precious person to Cloud, as much as Zack, but his feelings are not romantic: you can interpret them that way in Rebirth, but it will be dispelled in p3. And since it's an illusion, some will fall for it and others won't (which is why Aerith says "IF..."). To me it's pretty clear that Rebirth tried to live to this, at the very least for Aerith, but in the same time they showed Cloud and Tifa's love for each other and how they are able to help each other. Everything that goes down between Cloud and Tifa is very romance books coded, which is why people have noticed it.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
Regarding the example: Cloud isn't a sprite, and he does express more emotion than the character in the video. To act like the GS date scene where Cloud sits across from her was supposed to be of the romantic trope you stated, you would have to ignore Aerith's obviously offended reaction, as if she did the wrong thing. You also have to ignore that Cloud obviously saw the invitation to sit right next to her, and ignored it before letting out a sigh. I also doubt that just prior to the scene you sent, the character had a eureka moment where he remembered his dead best friend was the girl's boyfriend, and that he was crazy in love with her, complicating the guys feelings for said girl.
I'm also going to add that the side quest in Costa Del Sol for Clerith was grim, to say the least. Cloud does , in fact, treat Aerith a bit harshly sometimes.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Cloud's actors end up leaning into Cloti, they are hired to be Cloud, if they didn't accurately depict him or understand his character, they wouldn't have been cast as him, simple as that.
I'm also going to have to stop you at 'possible love interest'. Like I said, going off the OG atleast, whatever romantic feelings Cloud had for Aerith died with his fake persona in the Northern Crater.
Tifa is the person he's yearned and pined for his whole life, he's not going to change on a dime for Aerith. 'Possible' implies there's a chance it would have happened, when that simply isn't the case.
With how the material and characters are set up (especially Advent Children) I think it is highly disrespectful to Tifa for Cloud to have romantic feelings for Aerith outside of his SOLDIER persona. It is a complete insult to Tifa to have Cloud shape his life around her, only for Aerith to swoop in while he's somewhat acting out the part of her ex, and actually have Cloud consider her a possible romantic interest.
Imagine a situation where Cloud has to come clean about his feelings if this were the case: "Yeah, even though I was yearning for you my whole life, and shaped my aspirations on how to be worthy of you Tifa, a short time with Aerith while I was living a lie really makes me waver a bit." I don't think there's an easier way to make someone feel like shit about themselves than something like this happening. Really makes someone feel inferior to the other person.
Tifa's role in the narrative is to have a close, romantic, intimate, supportive relationship with Cloud. Aerith's role is to set the themes of the game, to be the Ancient who commands the lifestream and holy to save the planet from Meteor.
Maybe Clerith would have happened had Tifa been the person on that altar, but that's the point, that's a massive rewrite that has characters stealing each others roles, taking away from each woman's overall character.
Tifa cannot play Aerith's role in the story. It is simply not viable to have Aerith steal things from Tifa's role, just to give Aerith even more importance. The same way that it's unviable for Tifa to be the one to summon Holy: because you insult the characters involved. It is simply an insult to have Tifa's role conflated and shared with Aerith, but not the other way around. That's not very 'equal' to our heroines, is it?
I apologise for sounding bitter here, but Clerith really ruffles my feathers. It's not exclusive to Clerith, though, any pairing that involves Cloud or Tifa that isn't Cloti rubs me the wrong way, I can't help it.
There is slight overlap in the re;trilogy, but generally speaking, nobody should be thinking of stars when talking about Cloud and Aerith, and nobody should be thinking about flowers when talking about Cloud and Tifa.
I'm also going to add that the side quest in Costa Del Sol for Clerith was grim, to say the least. Cloud does , in fact, treat Aerith a bit harshly sometimes.
But that's also missing the point I made. Cloud's actors have to, at the very least, understand the character. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to play the role well in the first place.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Cloud's actors end up leaning into Cloti, they are hired to be Cloud, if they didn't accurately depict him or understand his character, they wouldn't have been cast as him, simple as that.
I'm also going to have to stop you at 'possible love interest'. Like I said, going off the OG atleast, whatever romantic feelings Cloud had for Aerith died with his fake persona in the Northern Crater.
Tifa is the person he's yearned and pined for his whole life, he's not going to change on a dime for Aerith. 'Possible' implies there's a chance it would have happened, when that simply isn't the case.
With how the material and characters are set up (especially Advent Children) I think it is highly disrespectful to Tifa for Cloud to have romantic feelings for Aerith outside of his SOLDIER persona. It is a complete insult to Tifa to have Cloud shape his life around her, only for Aerith to swoop in while he's somewhat acting out the part of her ex, and actually have Cloud consider her a possible romantic interest.
Imagine a situation where Cloud has to come clean about his feelings if this were the case: "Yeah, even though I was yearning for you my whole life, and shaped my aspirations on how to be worthy of you Tifa, a short time with Aerith while I was living a lie really makes me waver a bit." I don't think there's an easier way to make someone feel like shit about themselves than something like this happening. Really makes someone feel inferior to the other person.
Tifa's role in the narrative is to have a close, romantic, intimate, supportive relationship with Cloud. Aerith's role is to set the themes of the game, to be the Ancient who commands the lifestream and holy to save the planet from Meteor.
Maybe Clerith would have happened had Tifa been the person on that altar, but that's the point, that's a massive rewrite that has characters stealing each others roles, taking away from each woman's overall character.
Tifa cannot play Aerith's role in the story. It is simply not viable to have Aerith steal things from Tifa's role, just to give Aerith even more importance. The same way that it's unviable for Tifa to be the one to summon Holy: because you insult the characters involved. It is simply an insult to have Tifa's role conflated and shared with Aerith, but not the other way around. That's not very 'equal' to our heroines, is it?
I apologise for sounding bitter here, but Clerith really ruffles my feathers. It's not exclusive to Clerith, though, any pairing that involves Cloud or Tifa that isn't Cloti rubs me the wrong way, I can't help it.
No.
Also no.
There is slight overlap in the re;trilogy, but generally speaking, nobody should be thinking of stars when talking about Cloud and Aerith, and nobody should be thinking about flowers when talking about Cloud and Tifa.
I apologise if this sounds rude, but judging by the fact that Cloud's character is set up to revolve around Tifa and vice versa, I think we both know who's getting the 'fanservice' here, if any side.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
You know it doesn't matter if it's a doom romance, it's still a romance, and some people are always going to prefer the angst/ what if/potential of that. You can't ruin that for them no matter how hard you try. They "wrote it to be a doomed romance/not endgame/whatever" ok it was still a thing.
Abzy, I do find it rude, sorry, as I do find some Clotis enjoying CT and the flowers, and I don't bother them about it, they ship and enjoy CT with reunion flower, I won't take from their joy. Similarly if people want to enjoy Aerith and wishing star etc so what.
I don't think it matters what I expect from part 3, people are back at work, working on the game, everything written has already been written, I was wondering if it's found that the White Materia is full of Aerith’s memories, her time with Zack, Cloud, and everyone.
I was confused about the mocap thing because there was a video where headshots of characters were there while he was streaming and someone said both Zack and Cloud were amongst the characters, maybe just characters he liked?
Abzy, I do find it rude, sorry, as I do find some Clotis enjoying CT and the flowers, and I don't bother them about it, they ship and enjoy CT with reunion flower, I won't take from their joy. Similarly if people want to enjoy Aerith and wishing star etc so what.
I don't think it matters what I expect from part 3, people are back at work, working on the game, everything written has already been written, I was wondering if it's found that the White Materia is full of Aerith’s memories, her time with Zack, Cloud, and everyone.
I was confused about the mocap thing because there was a video where headshots of characters were there while he was streaming and someone said both Zack and Cloud were amongst the characters, maybe just characters he liked?
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nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
The story doesn’t give me enough to believe that Cloud is romantically interested in Aerith. After Remake I believed it was player choice and he could be interested in either but that went out the window with Rebirth.
There are constantly things shown in the game detailing how different Cloud is with Tifa. The game has multiple times where Cloud can show a sway in his feelings but he doesn’t. In the GS date the confession goes nowhere for Cloud and the same with the dream date, the confession goes nowhere. I’m not saying he doesn’t care about Aerith, because he cares about her a lot. However, the game is not leading me to believe that Cloud’s feelings for Tifa are flimsy or conflicted.
Rebirth intertwines Cloud and Tifa so much, between him only sharing his thoughts about his issues with her, Tifa constantly reassuring him it will be fine, Sephiroth coming between them, the LS sequence, etc. Rebirth really wanted me to understand that these two care deeply about each other. I believe that’s because they have to in order to build up their relationship for part 3.
There are constantly things shown in the game detailing how different Cloud is with Tifa. The game has multiple times where Cloud can show a sway in his feelings but he doesn’t. In the GS date the confession goes nowhere for Cloud and the same with the dream date, the confession goes nowhere. I’m not saying he doesn’t care about Aerith, because he cares about her a lot. However, the game is not leading me to believe that Cloud’s feelings for Tifa are flimsy or conflicted.
Rebirth intertwines Cloud and Tifa so much, between him only sharing his thoughts about his issues with her, Tifa constantly reassuring him it will be fine, Sephiroth coming between them, the LS sequence, etc. Rebirth really wanted me to understand that these two care deeply about each other. I believe that’s because they have to in order to build up their relationship for part 3.