SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
It's just that I feel like a lot of Clerith moments, including the date, have the looming presence of Zack behind it. That's why I can't read their moments as definitively romantic.

Why does the falling/almost kiss happen?, because Cloud pilots the ride to "protect/save" Aerith from the spaceship, then suddenly things become all too real, and awkward persay, doesn't necessarily mean bad.
I'm looking at this from a dev pov. They could have had Aerith and Cloud react in another way to the fall. They could have given Aerith a kiss. They could have not had Cloud dismiss her offer to sit next to her. At this point it's just character assassination if Cloud actually considers Aerith as a romantic partner post Northern Crater.

So, if these dates are important, and we’ve established that these scenes between characters are lovingly crafted… then why isn’t Cloud’s jealousy in Gongaga more overt like every other time he’s been jealous through both these games?
This goes back to the original point. If a guy who is expected to understand Cloud enough to be him says that Cloud is pure and worried, and no mention of jealousy, then it's probably the truth.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
I've seen the CT date hyper analysised and brutally torn into and shredded from every angle, from antis, it doesn't just bother me with CA but CT too, sure there will be those that try and downplay positives while building up negatives, but I won't go there.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
By the way I kind of wanted a "Tales of Xillia" situation where one story path is Zack's, another is Cloud's, they meet up for endgame, post game you can use all characters, but I doubt it, just thought it would be neat.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Do you seriously think they actively worked on the CA intimate, one of the dates they've said is one of the romantic ones, in order to make people disappointed in it, do you think they wanted people to be disappointed with something they worked hard to get. No, they created all the dates with love. So again people can try to spin it as negatively as they want, I'm not going to enjoy things any less.

The CA date also follows the CA play where Cloud holds the flower petal to his heart.
This makes me wonder how someone can spin it negatively? It’s a great scene. Unless my opinion that it’s not romantic can be seen as spinning it negatively? I don’t know, genuinely wondering.

Like I said, I think it’s still a great scene between Cloud and Aerith. She goes on about Zack, and how she wants to meet the real Cloud. It places in Cloud's mind how he just recently remembered Zack died and how he thinks she doesn’t know. Then he gives her what he can and comforts her.

It’s hard for me to separate Cloud’s frame of mind. He has to pretend he doesn’t know Zack’s fate when Aerith just told him she still has feelings for him.

It doesn’t have to be romantic for it to be a good scene.

It’s the same for Yuffie. She kisses Cloud and holds her chest when she stares at him. However it doesn’t make me believe Yuffie is in love with Cloud because I have the context of the game. This is how I feel about Aerith’s, with the context of the game I don’t see it as romantic. With Tifa’s and the context of the game, I see it as romantic.

I am not trying to debate your opinion, it’s just that it inspired me to share my own. I respect everyone’s different interpretations and opinions.
 

AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
For the last twenty years now, I’ve gathered there is a great wish, fervent desire even, to openly talk about Cloud and Tifa in the same breath as Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet, Tidus and Yuna etc.

From those who also love the Zack and Aerith romance, there is a hope that maybe they can be more broadly discussed within the same respectful manner as other Final Fantasy romances, without it derailing into how Aerith actually loved Cloud more, how Zack didn’t matter, how Tifa is an unimportant character etc.

As plainly and as heavily telegraphed as things have been in the retrilogy and more recent compilation entries, sadly, fandom and online discourse in both the wider Final Fantasy and FFVII fandom in particular has yet to accept or more fully come to grips with not only the story that is being told, but the story that’s been told from the beginning.

Because arguably, Cloud and Tifa now themselves have MORE romantic content, imagery, and symbolism, than all the other previously mentioned romances aside, especially in light of the retrilogy, and what Remake and Rebirth chose to both depict and expand upon as it concerns Cloud and Tifa’s connection, and burgeoning romance.

Aside from the Cecil and Rosa romantic arc (and arguably the more recent Vaan and Penelo, and Clive and Jill romances, loosely mind you) Cloud and Tifa are unique in the sense that they are the most thoroughly depicted childhood acquaintances/friends (YMMV) to lovers in the entirety of Final Fantasy.

And I’m sorry, sincerely, but for the very fact that for the first time in the entire existence and history of Cloud Strife, arguably Final Fantasy’s most iconic and recognisable hero and protagonist, from Final Fantasy to Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia to Smash, for his very first onscreen kiss, to be with Tifa, and not the typically seen sole heroine and solo love interest Aerith (oft associated more by fans than official sources with the likes of fellow “official” love interests like Rinoa, Garnet, and Yuna, if by mere coincidence they are all “sorceresses/white mages” etc.) is very telling.

It really shouldn’t be a controversial or fresh revelation, to either side now.

We’ve had Advent Children, which despite how often it is cited by those who feverishly claim Cloud only ever loved Aerith, and desires death over life to be with her, actually ends with Cloud choosing life, represented in both the home and business he shares with Tifa, and Denzel the boy they adopt and raise together along with Barret’s daughter Marlene.

We’ve had the debated canonical Maiden Who Travels The Planet, that arguable canonicity and character assassination as it pertains to Aerith’s treatment of Zack aside, still firmly establishes even from Aerith’s own perspective that Cloud and Tifa are meant to be together in life.

We’ve had Crisis Core that, despite otherwise cementing Aerith and Zack as far more concrete lovers than Benny Matsuyama’s Maiden novella would suggest, also goes more firmly into the territory of depicting the angst and love between Cloud and Tifa during the Nibelheim Incident, which as we know facilitates the entire plot of Final Fantasy VII even existing.

And far more recently we’ve had Kazushige Nojima himself pen two novellas, Traces of Two Pasts and Cloud’s own Two Thousand Gil to Become a Hero, that perfectly bookend each other in the respect that they both unambiguously and equally affirm and more clearly establish both the desire and love that Tifa and Cloud feel for the other, prior to all the romantically charged moments to come between them in Remake and Rebirth.

And as far as romance goes for Cloud and Aerith… it’s nearly always tethered by an inescapable air of both melancholy and tragedy. Which some choose to romanticise.

No problem in that. Tragic, unrequited or unfulfilled love stories are among the most adored, celebrated even, and I’d argue in essence this is what the Cloud and Aerith story slightly leans into.

The issue is that for so many context is simply ignored, deliberately abandoned even, all in the goal of seeing only what they want to see.

If you get Aerith’s HA Gold Saucer date with the desire to see it as romantic, that is what you will see. It is 100% framed and deliberately shot in such a way. So I don’t blame people for seeing it in that way.

But you also cannot ignore the melancholy. The inescapable tragedy of the fact that, as much as Aerith desires to meet the real Cloud, she cannot.

Even the oft cited and resourced Maiden novella reestablishes that it’s only Tifa who can find the real Cloud and ultimately bring him back.

Aerith cannot, even if she desperately wishes too.

Couple this with, her inability to move on from Zack, that and her love of experiencing new things and living her life with her new loved family of friends, and you have one of the most tragic characters in gaming. Her deep connection to and love for Cloud is a mirror cast on this. She is taken from us far too soon. She is conflicted, torn even, on where her emotions lie. Despite her seeming omnipotence in Remake, Rebirth firmly establishes that she has lost these memories of hers and the others future, so her journey in Rebirth is as much her enjoying in and loving life to the fullest as it is her trying to both figure out and reflect on her deep feelings for the two most important men in her life, two men where there is a lot of overlap to the point it would leave anyone confused and conflicted, especially a woman like Aerith who, has been deprived of so much in life, is relatively inexperienced, reluctant initially to heed the call of destiny, because she had found a new family in friends and loved ones whom she’d rather spend more time by their side than accept a fate where she may be forever removed from them.

This is the melancholy and tragedy as it pertains to Aerith’s character that is so often overlooked and ignored, all to focus on the more artificial and constructed romantic tragedy of the denied love story between her and Cloud, a love story that is tenuous at best, again, if you actively choose to more thoroughly explore the full context of both character and story.

Zack is no longer some conveniently forgettable NPC whose scenes are locked away in an optional and easily missable cutscene as they were in the original.

Aerith is no longer the insensitive and arguably more narrowly impulsive character as she was in the original (she never asks Cait Sith for hers and Cloud’s romantic fortune/horoscope, though I believe this scene is explored more thoroughly and in detail in the entirety of the Sector 5 dream date, a more in depth way of depicting their “compatibility”)

And you would have to ignore the plethora of build up and addition to the romantic angle of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, no longer merely contained to the games but the films and novellas themselves, and something that has definitely been developed in a way that suggests the developers are cognisant of the emotional payoff that will come in Part 3 as it depicts scenes like the Northern Crater and Lifestream sequences which are heavy in Cloud and Tifa development and thematic symbolism.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
So again. I hope nobody felt attacked.
It sounded like you were addressing Maiden the way you phrased it.

Maiden asked a question about what we thought the date was supposed to be. You said "I don't know", which sounded like a reply to Maiden's question.

But again, my bad for mistaking it.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Yuffie's date is specifically highlighted as funny/family while Aerith's is called romantic though, while CA might not be on the level as CT, I'd put it above Yuffie as romantic.

CAs aren't getting the date to have a non romantic scene, to enjoy a great friendship or whatever, to them, non romantic will mean negative, if it's all about how Cloud and Aerith are such great friends, might as well let her have the GS scenes with Tifa or Red XIII, her best friends.
 
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pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
I've seen the CT date hyper analysised and brutally torn into and shredded from every angle, from antis, it doesn't just bother me with CA but CT too, sure there will be those that try and downplay positives while building up negatives, but I won't go there.
Also keep in mind, there are folks who haven’t played the original game so they can’t fully ditch the love triangle stuff when we’re firmly in pre-twist territory. It’s all vastly more downplayed than in the original imo, but it is still there.

Oh, as a fan of that scene and lover of that kiss, I can pick it apart in the same spirit as the CA date because there are parallels to point out, especially if you look at the context of the rest of Rebirth.

Tifa is clearly apprehensive, for a multitude of reasons ( all justified btw ). Hell, the only reason I think it happens at all is because of Gongaga. Cloud finally, FINALLY, opens up about a deep concern of his and it’s something Tifa herself has suspected since Remake.

So Tifa takes a leap of faith. The kiss is both good and bad tbh, because Tifa has a similar issue to Aerith. Take the Zack of Aerith anc switch it out for “the Cloud of my memories”. He looks similar, sometimes even acts similar, but something isn’t similar at all. Maybe I should try to get closer to this Cloud?

So they kiss, somewhat taken by the atmosphere… and now they’re in this space that’s more than friends but less than lovers and everything goes to shit before they can confirm the relationship.

Then we hit the end of the game and Tifa is right back where she started in terms of Cloud only now he’s even further gone ( aka “degraded” ) than ever and the only person she could confide in about it just got killed by the same dude that burned her hometown.

And we’re not even done kicking her yet.

So yeah, similar to Aerith’s date, Tifa’s has an undertone of tragedy because she’s taken a hopeful step only to have it snatched out from under her and drive her to… despair ( Sephiroth moans in the distance ).
 

blink-07

Pro Adventurer
AKA
blink-07
For the last twenty years now, I’ve gathered there is a great wish, fervent desire even, to openly talk about Cloud and Tifa in the same breath as Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet, Tidus and Yuna etc.

From those who also love the Zack and Aerith romance, there is a hope that maybe they can be more broadly discussed within the same respectful manner as other Final Fantasy romances, without it derailing into how Aerith actually loved Cloud more, how Zack didn’t matter, how Tifa is an unimportant character etc.

As plainly and as heavily telegraphed as things have been in the retrilogy and more recent compilation entries, sadly, fandom and online discourse in both the wider Final Fantasy and FFVII fandom in particular has yet to accept or more fully come to grips with not only the story that is being told, but the story that’s been told from the beginning.

Because arguably, Cloud and Tifa now themselves have MORE romantic content, imagery, and symbolism, than all the other previously mentioned romances aside, especially in light of the retrilogy, and what Remake and Rebirth chose to both depict and expand upon as it concerns Cloud and Tifa’s connection, and burgeoning romance.

Aside from the Cecil and Rosa romantic arc (and arguably the more recent Vaan and Penelo, and Clive and Jill romances, loosely mind you) Cloud and Tifa are unique in the sense that they are the most thoroughly depicted childhood acquaintances/friends (YMMV) to lovers in the entirety of Final Fantasy.

And I’m sorry, sincerely, but for the very fact that for the first time in the entire existence and history of Cloud Strife, arguably Final Fantasy’s most iconic and recognisable hero and protagonist, from Final Fantasy to Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia to Smash, for his very first onscreen kiss, to be with Tifa, and not the typically seen sole heroine and solo love interest Aerith (oft associated more by fans than official sources with the likes of fellow “official” love interests like Rinoa, Garnet, and Yuna, if by mere coincidence they are all “sorceresses/white mages” etc.) is very telling.

It really shouldn’t be a controversial or fresh revelation, to either side now.

We’ve had Advent Children, which despite how often it is cited by those who feverishly claim Cloud only ever loved Aerith, and desires death over life to be with her, actually ends with Cloud choosing life, represented in both the home and business he shares with Tifa, and Denzel the boy they adopt and raise together along with Barret’s daughter Marlene.

We’ve had the debated canonical Maiden Who Travels The Planet, that arguable canonicity and character assassination as it pertains to Aerith’s treatment of Zack aside, still firmly establishes even from Aerith’s own perspective that Cloud and Tifa are meant to be together in life.

We’ve had Crisis Core that, despite otherwise cementing Aerith and Zack as far more concrete lovers than Benny Matsuyama’s Maiden novella would suggest, also goes more firmly into the territory of depicting the angst and love between Cloud and Tifa during the Nibelheim Incident, which as we know facilitates the entire plot of Final Fantasy VII even existing.

And far more recently we’ve had Kazushige Nojima himself pen two novellas, Traces of Two Pasts and Cloud’s own Two Thousand Gil to Become a Hero, that perfectly bookend each other in the respect that they both unambiguously and equally affirm and more clearly establish both the desire and love that Tifa and Cloud feel for the other, prior to all the romantically charged moments to come between them in Remake and Rebirth.

And as far as romance goes for Cloud and Aerith… it’s nearly always tethered by an inescapable air of both melancholy and tragedy. Which some choose to romanticise.

No problem in that. Tragic, unrequited or unfulfilled love stories are among the most adored, celebrated even, and I’d argue in essence this is what the Cloud and Aerith story slightly leans into.

The issue is that for so many context is simply ignored, deliberately abandoned even, all in the goal of seeing only what they want to see.

If you get Aerith’s HA Gold Saucer date with the desire to see it as romantic, that is what you will see. It is 100% framed and deliberately shot in such a way. So I don’t blame people for seeing it in that way.

But you also cannot ignore the melancholy. The inescapable tragedy of the fact that, as much as Aerith desires to meet the real Cloud, she cannot.

Even the oft cited and resourced Maiden novella reestablishes that it’s only Tifa who can find the real Cloud and ultimately bring him back.

Aerith cannot, even if she desperately wishes too.

Couple this with, her inability to move on from Zack, that and her love of experiencing new things and living her life with her new loved family of friends, and you have one of the most tragic characters in gaming. Her deep connection to and love for Cloud is a mirror cast on this. She is taken from us far too soon. She is conflicted, torn even, on where her emotions lie. Despite her seeming omnipotence in Remake, Rebirth firmly establishes that she has lost these memories of hers and the others future, so her journey in Rebirth is as much her enjoying in and loving life to the fullest as it is her trying to both figure out and reflect on her deep feelings for the two most important men in her life, two men where there is a lot of overlap to the point it would leave anyone confused and conflicted, especially a woman like Aerith who, has been deprived of so much in life, is relatively inexperienced, reluctant initially to heed the call of destiny, because she had found a new family in friends and loved ones whom she’d rather spend more time by their side than accept a fate where she may be forever removed from them.

This is the melancholy and tragedy as it pertains to Aerith’s character that is so often overlooked and ignored, all to focus on the more artificial and constructed romantic tragedy of the denied love story between her and Cloud, a love story that is tenuous at best, again, if you actively choose to more thoroughly explore the full context of both character and story.

Zack is no longer some conveniently forgettable NPC whose scenes are locked away in an optional and easily missable cutscene as they were in the original.

Aerith is no longer the insensitive and arguably more narrowly impulsive character as she was in the original (she never asks Cait Sith for hers and Cloud’s romantic fortune/horoscope, though I believe this scene is explored more thoroughly and in detail in the entirety of the Sector 5 dream date, a more in depth way of depicting their “compatibility”)

And you would have to ignore the plethora of build up and addition to the romantic angle of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, no longer merely contained to the games but the films and novellas themselves, and something that has definitely been developed in a way that suggests the developers are cognisant of the emotional payoff that will come in Part 3 as it depicts scenes like the Northern Crater and Lifestream sequences which are heavy in Cloud and Tifa development and thematic symbolism.
Add Clive and Jill to that list ❤️
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
It sounded like you were addressing Maiden the way you phrased it.

Maiden asked a question about what we thought the date was supposed to be. You said "I don't know", which sounded like a reply to Maiden's question.

But again, my bad for mistaking it.

It was a sarcastic reply. It was more along the lines of "you say that, but that's not what some say wink wink."

Maiden talked specifically of all the scene. It's those who only take certain scenes into account that I'm making fun of.

But my bad too if it was confusing, I realize it wasn't very clear. All is good now !

Also keep in mind, there are folks who haven’t played the original game so they can’t fully ditch the love triangle stuff when we’re firmly in pre-twist territory. It’s all vastly more downplayed than in the original imo, but it is still there.

Oh, as a fan of that scene and lover of that kiss, I can pick it apart in the same spirit as the CA date because there are parallels to point out, especially if you look at the context of the rest of Rebirth.

Tifa is clearly apprehensive, for a multitude of reasons ( all justified btw ). Hell, the only reason I think it happens at all is because of Gongaga. Cloud finally, FINALLY, opens up about a deep concern of his and it’s something Tifa herself has suspected since Remake.

So Tifa takes a leap of faith. The kiss is both good and bad tbh, because Tifa has a similar issue to Aerith. Take the Zack of Aerith anc switch it out for “the Cloud of my memories”. He looks similar, sometimes even acts similar, but something isn’t similar at all. Maybe I should try to get closer to this Cloud?

So they kiss, somewhat taken by the atmosphere… and now they’re in this space that’s more than friends but less than lovers and everything goes to shit before they can confirm the relationship.

Then we hit the end of the game and Tifa is right back where she started in terms of Cloud only now he’s even further gone ( aka “degraded” ) than ever and the only person she could confide in about it just got killed by the same dude that burned her hometown.

And we’re not even done kicking her yet.

So yeah, similar to Aerith’s date, Tifa’s has an undertone of tragedy because she’s taken a hopeful step only to have it snatched out from under her and drive her to… despair ( Sephiroth moans in the distance ).

Super interesting pov ! And I really like this way of seeing it !

Because yes, a lot of poeple tend to forget he's not always the real Cloud from Tifa perspective too. She's searching for him too.

Brilliant.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
It was a sarcastic reply. It was more along the lines of "you say that, but that's not what some say wink wink."

Maiden talked specifically of all the scene. It's those who only take certain scenes into account that I'm making fun of.

But my bad too if it was confusing, I realize it wasn't very clear. All is good now !



Super interesting pov ! And I really like this way of seeing it !

Because yes, a lot of poeple tend to forget he's not always the real Cloud from Tifa perspective too. She's searching for him too.

Brilliant.
Gotta thank people like @Maidenofwar for making me flip the script on myself to try and see multiple viewpoints.

I’ve watched that scene so many times and I love it to bits because of how multifaceted it is in how it fits the story. That’s true for all dates, which is what the devs were trying to say, every one of them fits the story beautifully.

Yuffie, for example, is going to keep on giving nuggets of gold if what I’m suspecting is true. Out of everyone, Cloud is going to need to channel that big bro energy with her.
 

ChaosandConfusion

Pro Adventurer
Curious of what you mean because at times I feel the same way. Perhaps for different reasons though.
When I first played Rebirth I came away with C and T are in love and A has a crush on C and he deflects whenever A tries to make it romantic(like why is there even a debate). I think I'm overloading myself with to many viewpoints and to much information and speeding through it without fully processing it.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
When I first played Rebirth I came away with C and T are in love and A has a crush on C and he deflects whenever A tries to make it romantic(like why is there even a debate). I think I'm overloading myself with to many viewpoints and to much information and speeding through it without fully processing it.

That's pretty much what most of the people here came up with I think.

So you're not that much out of touch.

The debate can be about C feelings for A in Remake/Rebirth.

So don't be too hard on yourself
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
When I first played Rebirth I came away with C and T are in love and A has a crush on C and he deflects whenever A tries to make it romantic(like why is there even a debate). I think I'm overloading myself with to many viewpoints and to much information and speeding through it without fully processing it.
Yeah I get you, and same for me lol. Remake I was neutral, Rebirth opened my eyes and got me invested in FF7. Left it the same way pretty much. CT and ZA being fairly obvious.

For the most part I don’t get into the trenches. I don’t feel like I have to do any further understanding after playing the game, watching chunks of OG, and reading Nojima’s novels.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
Yeah I get you, and same for me lol. Remake I was neutral, Rebirth opened my eyes and got me invested in FF7. Left it the same way pretty much. CT and ZA being fairly obvious.

For the most part I don’t get into the trenches. I don’t feel like I have to do any further understanding after playing the game, watching chunks of OG, and reading Nojima’s novels.
That’s really all you need. The work itself speaks for itself, even if they allow enough room to fill in some small gaps yourself.

It’s admittedly hard without part 3 to complete the picture, and I fully admit I’m working under the assumption that it will mostly follow the events of the original story.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
If pt.3 explicitly states/shows he does love her (hypothetically speaking) they have to break some hearts and they need to heavily lean into it.

The problem is that it renders Tifa irrelevant. Tifa's whole character is written around Cloud. And vice versa.

Without Tifa as a romantic interest, there's no FF7. Cloud never leaves to become a Soldier. Cloud doesn't kill Sephiroth in a rage. Cloud never wakes up from his Mako overdose.

We know that Tifa is in love with him. We know that Cloud did everything he did thanks to his love for Tifa. 1+1 = 2. That's pretty simple.

Of course they could use the "I met this person who changed my life" trope, but in doing so they totally devalue Cloud's strength of character, which has enabled him to overcome mountains.

And again... it's changing a lot of aspects of the story for... a dead person...

And all this without mentioning Zack, who literally died because he wanted to get back to Aerith... saving Cloud in the process.
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
Sorry I didn't reply in my last post.

View attachment 16827

Now wait just a darn minute. I thought they weren’t having sex because sex was for us horny westerners because Japanese people can’t relate to sex (hence their population crisis). Tsunaging ain’t gonna cut it imo. How exactly do they plan to manufacture these hoshi headed babies. I need the deets.
 

Nancy

Pro Adventurer
Now wait just a darn minute. I thought they weren’t having sex because sex was for us horny westerners because Japanese people can’t relate to sex (hence their population crisis). Tsunaging ain’t gonna cut it imo. How exactly do they plan to manufacture these hoshi headed babies. I need the deets.

It has been a while but I think the baby theory started going around after Hojo said he wanted to breed Aerith with Sephiroth which the extreme took Hojo saying he wanted Cloud to Impregnated Aerith
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
This is why you're Admiral.
You have to be very precise when commanding and sinking ships, after all.

I hate how right you are about this. Let's all remember that Cloti stands up on its own, while Clerith needs to lean on Cloti like it had a few too many at 7th Heaven.
Moreso now than ever, what with the people apparently wanting the Highwind sequence but with Aerith while also denying anything romantic about the version that already exists.

That's Erza Materia Jesus for ya!
Unfathomable is her power.

Well, the monkey pairings have a certain feel to them. There are game franchises and companies I could see using monkey pairings to reference a canon ship, tease a popular but unresolved ship, or troll fans of a sunken ship. I could see it, easily... just not from this company in this franchise :monster:
Especially not when the monkeys in question are named "Summer and Winter."

The heavier debt still feels like it's owed to Denzel to me, but it is indeed a close thing.
Agreed.

Huh, maybe Marlene and Denzel will be the ones to develop green energy.
It's entirely possible.

Having pity alongside schadenfreude is what keeps us from being 100% dicks right?
That and our love for small animals.

Indeed, spoiled for choice is what we are.
Wish we weren't in this case, but c'est la vie.

If only Demo wasn't my worst class. Especially after they nerfed the Scottish resistance... although I'm told they buffed it, nerfed it twice, and buffed it again since so wtfk at this point.
Better give it a hat just to make sure.

Rufus gotta keep profits up after the OG somehow. Also who makes Queen's Blood cards?
Capsule Corp. They're into everything and everywhere.

Self fulfilling, as is right and proper.
Hell of their own making etc. etc.

Don't be Black Mage, take your time. With a magnifying glass. And a contract lawyer.
Also remember consideration is required for a contact to be enforceable, but you still have to fight it in court.

The old LTD was pretty much a course on dishonest debate tactics.
Ad Hominems, that's another. Can't tell you how many times I've had my personage insulted as if it had any bearing on the quality of the argument I presented. Plenty of them were absolute shit at that.

Think how stupid the average person is, then take a moment to realize that half of 'em are even stupider than that.
Technically, this is not necessarily true. A sufficiently stupid person will throw the average off of a 50/50 split ever so slightly. But broadly speaking, yep.

But if course. One of my favorite OG moments will always be everyone telling a different train analogy in unison.
Pre-empting Barret, don't forget.

Stars are a CA motif (Cloud and Aerith’s star, Cosmo Canyon Absence of a Sign quest) and CT motif as flower are now a CT and CA motif, (flower to Tifa, flower on letter box) well I don't see the point in fighting over and not sharing them.
I can see sort of where you're coming from, but the associations are nowhere near as strong. Tifa's character art for years has been her gazing up at the stars on the water tower. Aerith, rightly so, is associated with Flowers. Cloud giving Tifa a Flower and the two of them being framed in the field of flowers in AC/C doesn't remove that from her, same as the sign of a star quest doesn't remove Cloud and Tifa's now repeated association with looking at the stars, what with the addition of the Stargazer Heights in remake to go with the memory of the stars above the night of the promise and the shooting star that helps Cloud regain his real self.
(To elaborate, I do feel the flower shot in AC/C was depicting Aerith looking after and doing her best to bless the both of them, Likewise, given her reaction to it in Remake, it does come across that Aerith was hoping Cloud would give that flower to Tifa. These seem to be developer hints that she approves of that pairing.)

It has been a while but I think the baby theory started going around after Hojo said he wanted to breed Aerith with Sephiroth which the extreme took Hojo saying he wanted Cloud to Impregnated Aerith
Ah yes. Because Cloud and Sephiroth are completely identical and genetically the same. Even if he did mean Cloud and Aerith why would anyone take what that Creepy Fuck says as a positive?

As a complete random aside, did you by chance decide on your username because of my old joke that Aerith's name was actually Nancy (as opposed to either Aeris or Aerith)? If not, no worries, but if so, HAH!
 
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Nancy

Pro Adventurer
Ah yes. Because Cloud and Sephiroth are completely identical and genetically the same. Even if he did mean Cloud and Aerith why would anyone take what that Creepy Fuck says as a positive?

As a complete random aside, did you by chance decide on your username because of my old joke that Aerith's name was actually Nancy (as opposed to either Aeris or Aerith)? If not, no worries, but if so, HAH!

True, Sephiroth and Cloud does have the same gene but then we gotta remember by that time when Hojo was talking about breeding Aerith with S cells he didn't know Cloud and co was inside the Shinra building

Also, if the CAltists could come up with some wacky blue cetra baby floating on a cloud theory just from what Hojo said no matter what, even if it's gross and we know Cloud would never do that to harm Aerith

Lol when did that happen? And no, I chose the name Nancy is because that's my nickname
 
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