SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryeleigh]

I think the funniest "argument" I've seen recently was the extreme CAs and "both girls" thinking Cody was talking to CTs with his "not every relationship has to be sexualised", lol. I get that people have their preferences, interpretations and headcanons but at some point, I just have to wonder if they even like the thing they think they like.

 

[ViolaaFox]

I think the funniest "argument" I've seen recently was the extreme CAs and "both girls" thinking Cody was talking to CTs with his "not every relationship has to be sexualised", lol. I get that people have their preferences, interpretations and headcanons but at some point, I just have to wonder if they even like the thing they think they like.

I'm already very curious to see how the Highwind scene (if it's in there) will be excused by them. After the whole "the kiss was coping" etc.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Yeah, what Cody said really annoyed me actually, because you can have romantic without sexualised. In my books he could keep his opinions to himself, celeb or not.

 

[Yoru]

I think the funniest "argument" I've seen recently was the extreme CAs and "both girls" thinking Cody was talking to CTs with his "not every relationship has to be sexualised", lol. I get that people have their preferences, interpretations and headcanons but at some point, I just have to wonder if they even like the thing they think they like.

But I thought Tifa was a useless character, only sexualized for Western morons ? One day they should have a little reunion and tune their arguments to a common guideline.

 

[Yoru]

Yeah, what Cody said really annoyed me actually, because you can have romantic without sexualised. In my books he could keep his opinions to himself, celeb or not.

And I think he's right. He's the voice of the main character. He follows the devs' guidelines for voice acting. If he thinks people are ruining it, he should be allowed to say so.

He just had fun with a Tifa meme after a trailer came out, and started getting attacked for nothing. Literally what he later denounced.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I'm already very curious to see how the Highwind scene (if it's in there) will be excused by them. After the whole "the kiss was coping" etc.

Well, it depends a bit on how much they expand it and how explicit it will be. But I imagine the excuses will be the same as before: optional, mutual feelings of friendship, he was thinking Aerith the entire time, etc.

Yeah, what Cody said really annoyed me actually, because you can have romantic without sexualised.

To be fair, I think he did mean both. They are sort of linked even if they don't always go hand-in-hand. For an extreme example (and this is not a dig at shippers because people can ship whatever tickles their fancy), Sephiroth/Cloud is one of those relationships that doesn't need to be romanticised/sexualised. Of course, people can do that but it's a bit different to force canon to conform to that. If I made any sense, lol?

Also, this has nothing to do with FF7 but I've seen plenty of American tv shows where the storylines and characters have been ruined by forcing romance/sex into bonds that didn't need them. So I can definitely understand the sentiment, lol.

 

[ViolaaFox]

But I thought Tifa was a useless character, only sexualized for Western morons ? One day they should have a little reunion and tune their arguments to a common guideline.

To be honest, I find any hate aimed at Aerith's or Tifa's looks pretty tasteless. Most of the time it's comments like this that are aimed at Tifa being a pure fanservice character, which is just wrong as she is very important for the story. But I saw negative comments about Aerith body type as well that were quite disguisting.

Also most FF characters are designed to appeal to the players.

 

[Yoru]

I literally don't give a crap that Cody thinks people should just appreciate CA as friends.

I don't interact with him anyway.

So Cody's opinion we shouldn't care but Loren Allred commenting on the meaning of the NPTK song that goes against the writer's own opinion, we should take it as gospel word?

I just want to be sure. Because if it is, it's just that the only thing that bothers you is that he doesn't share your ship.

Nothing wrong with that, but let's be clear.

And I think it's a shame to reduce his message to just this one line. Because it goes much further than that.

All he's saying is that these couple wars (which he's already aware of with his older works) can ruin a lot of stories. Because people come to focus only on that and no longer appreciate the rest.

 

[pxl_pushr]

But I thought Tifa was a useless character, only sexualized for Western morons ? One day they should have a little reunion and tune their arguments to a common guideline.

“So what happens if Tifa dies?”

Cloud reverts to being a vegetable and the story ends lol

 

[Yoru]

“So what happens if Tifa dies?”

Cloud reverts to being a vegetable and the story ends lol

It's ok. Aerith will save him. She can do it, she's perfect.

Vegetables, flowers. All the same. They all grow the same way.

 

[abzy1200]

You know somebody played the game blindfolded when they say stuff like that.

…or they never played it in the first place.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Cloud reverts to being a vegetable and the story ends lol

Which is also funny when people try to reduce Zack's importance. I mean, sure in OG he was a NPC who only had a couple of scenes but without Zack, Cloud would still be in a tank and he never would've made it to Midgar, lol. So for a NPC with a few scenes, he was pretty important in the grand scheme of things. I also find it so amusing that both characters who took care of vegetable Cloud were dark-haired and basically his ideal people, lol.

Also, I would like to add that personally I have several canon couples that I'm indifferent towards, dislike or absolutely loathe. But I still would never deny their canonicity. I would just say, yes, they're canon but I think they're badly written/I don't care about it. There are also several non-canon ships that I like but I would never argue that they're actually canon. There's a definite leap between "I can see that" and "the text says this".

 

[Yoru]

You know somebody played the game blindfolded when they say stuff like that.

…or they never played it in the first place.

You'd be amazed by the power your brain can wield when you want to convince yourself of something.

Also, I would like to add that personally I have several canon couples that I'm indifferent towards, dislike or absolutely loathe. But I still would never deny their canonicity. I would just say, yes, they're canon but I think they're badly written/I don't care about it. There are also several non-canon ships that I like but I would never argue that they're actually canon. There's a definite leap between "I can see that" and "the text says this".

The definition of headcanon. And the only thing they're blamed for. We don't care about who they ship. We just want you to respect the story...

 

[pxl_pushr]

Which is also funny when people try to reduce Zack's importance. I mean, sure in OG he was a NPC who only had a couple of scenes but without Zack, Cloud would still be in a tank and he never would've made it to Midgar, lol. So for a NPC with a few scenes, he was pretty important in the grand scheme of things. I also find it so amusing that both characters who took care of vegetable Cloud were dark-haired and basically his ideal people, lol.

Also, I would like to add that personally I have several canon couples that I'm indifferent towards, dislike or absolutely loathe. But I still would never deny their canonicity. I would just say, yes, they're canon but I think they're badly written/I don't care about it. There are also several non-canon ships that I like but I would never argue that they're actually canon. There's a definite leap between "I can see that" and "the text says this".

Zack turned the light on, but nobody was home. Tifa got his mind to occupy with the space with who he thought was an ideal version of himself.

Both are important to Cloud’s arc especially

 

[Rin]

Also, this has nothing to do with FF7 but I've seen plenty of American tv shows where the storylines and characters have been ruined by forcing romance/sex into bonds that didn't need them. So I can definitely understand the sentiment, lol.

Especially for Cody who has been on multiple CW shows and knows the ins and outs of toxic shipping fandoms lol it's why he doesn't care and is going to say what he wants to say regardless of who it upsets. The man was on Teen Wolf, the FFVII fandom cannot hurt him lmaooo.

 

[ViolaaFox]

You know somebody played the game blindfolded when they say stuff like that.

…or they never played it in the first place.

I'm actually fascinated by how often this is the case with FFVII. Because in other fandoms I'm in, that seems to be much less common.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Especially for Cody who has been on multiple CW shows and knows the ins and outs of toxic shipping fandoms lol it's why he doesn't care and is going to say what he wants to say regardless of who it upsets. The man was on Teen Wolf, the FFVII fandom cannot hurt him lmaooo.

Cody: you merely adopted the shipping war. I was molded by it. The shipping war betrays you because it belongs to me! ( I’m hearing all this in Cloud’s voice btw and it amuses me greatly )

 

[Yoru]

I'm actually fascinated by how often this is the case with FFVII. Because in other fandoms I'm in, that seems to be much less common.

I think there are several factors.

1 - It's a poorly translated game.
2 - Many fans didn't have the same entry point. Some have been around since OG. Others with AC. Others with Kingdom Hearts. So a lot of people participate in the fandom based on hearsay or youtube playthroughs.
3 - After 27 years, it's hard to admit you were wrong. A captain sinks with his ship.

 

[Empyrea]

I liked Dragon's Quarter, lol.

But I agree with Ryushikaze. BOF1 and 2 are also good games.


You know, I don't think shipping goggles is strong enough of a word for this phenomenon, lol. Maybe something like shipping blinkers, like those horse blinkers that prevent horses from seeing the rear and sides.

My sympathies, re: Dragon's Quarter.
I kid, but more seriously, 1 and 2 are also worth playing, though definitely pick up the GBA ports if you don't grab a retranslation mod. The OG translations are serviceable but they cut out a lot of detail for space. Also maybe rebalance patch for 2. Ryu's dragon forms are broken in the not actually usable way in 2.

Hey! Dragon Quarter isn't that bad, I'll have you know!
I ended it with a Dragon Ratio of 1/4 (I'll add 1 and 2 to my eternal backlog, though, lol)

I'd rather call it an obsession.

But yeah, I think I saw that Reddit post. Which reminds me, Advent Children was my actually my first encounter with FFVII. At the time, a friend told me that Clerith was VII's ship and that AC was about Cloud looking for Aerith etc. And while watching the movie I was so confused because it made no sense at all...

Oh boy, I can relate. I had a similar experience, with added insistence that since Cloud's feelings trumps all in FF7, he must've been in love with Aerith to feel that guilty. The friend who told me is no longer my friend (for more reasons than this, but that viewpoint is a bit of a red flag).

Re: the chain about Cody and his statement. I've said it elsewhere, too, but for the sake of all that's good, apply your rules/logic/whatever to both sides! If Nojima/Cody/Cloud's mocap actor's opinion are biased and shouldn't be taken into account, then the same goes for the other side. They have biases and preconceptions, too.

 

[ViolaaFox]

I think there are several factors.

1 - It's a poorly translated game.
2 - Many fans didn't have the same entry point. Some have been around since OG. Others with AC. Others with Kingdom Hearts. So a lot of people participate in the fandom based on hearsay or youtube playthroughs.
3 - After 27 years, it's hard to admit you were wrong. A captain sinks with his ship.

From what I've heard, the English localisation was already not so good and the translation into my first language is actually from the English script. I suspect that was the case for most localisations in Europe. Actually I played OG (remastered PS4 version) after Remake part 1 and some parts still sound quite bumpy in the translation.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Hey! Dragon Quarter isn't that bad, I'll have you know!
I ended it with a Dragon Ratio of 1/4


Oh boy, I can relate. I had a similar experience, with added insistence that since Cloud's feelings trumps all in FF7, he must've been in love with Aerith to feel that guilty. The friend who told me is no longer my friend (for more reasons than this, but that viewpoint is a bit of a red flag).

Re: the chain about Cody and his statement. I've said it elsewhere, too, but for the sake of all that's good, apply your rules/logic/whatever to both sides! If Nojima/Cody/Cloud's mocap actor's opinion are biased and shouldn't be take to account, then the same goes for the other side. They have biases and preconceptions, too.

Across the board, I think all the people who have worked on these games have done a respectable job interacting with the more ravenous parts of the fandom. Can’t think of anything they’ve said or done that wasn’t at the very least professional.

And they’ve received some unacceptable levels of backlash for rather harmless opinions/statements.

Nomura, Lord of Shadows, however, will live on forever rent free in my mind

 

[Yoru]

Re: the chain about Cody and his statement. I've said it elsewhere, too, but for the sake of all that's good, apply your rules/logic/whatever to both sides! If Nojima/Cody/Cloud's mocap actor's opinion are biased and shouldn't be take to account, then the same goes for the other side. They have biases and preconceptions, too.

Clearly. And I'm sorry, but you're going to end up not liking a lot of people in FF7's making. Cloud's Japanese voice chooses Tifa too when asked. So how do we go about it? Do we "cancel" him too ?
And that's what Cody meant. You can't process all the information through ship goggles.

From what I've heard, the English localisation was already not so good and the translation into my first language is actually from the English script. I suspect that was the case for most localisations in Europe. Actually I played OG (remastered PS4 version) after Remake part 1 and some parts still sound quite bumpy in the translation.

Yes. The US script is the only one used for other languages than japanese. For example, French people had to wait modding and the Neo Midgar patch to play the game from the Japanese script.

 

[shady]

Just to say, working in the industry and all that. Cody's opinion holds weight because he lives and breathes Cloud when he embodies the character. He will get the scripts, he will get the animatics, he will get voice direction from people above him, he will be told how Cloud feels in a specific moment and to make sure that is reflected in his voice and so on and so forth.

I'm sure people think 'voice actor who cares' when in reality what he is an actor full stop. He becomes Cloud and because of that he has to know how Cloud thinks and feels to portray him accurately.

If he says shippers crumble under the idea of a character having deep relationships with others then he understands Cloud himself has deep relationships with everyone that aren't all romantic in nature. People try and force not only their ideas of relationships between the characters -- platonic or otherwise -- onto Cloud, but people also try and force these ideas onto the people playing these characters and other fans, and if you don't kowtow prepare to get harassed or told you aren't allowed an opinion -- all because yours doesn't align with theirs.

Cody was just having a little fun, that people were so pressed about a meme is as hilarious as it is depressing. He understands Cloud has a deep meaningful relationship with Tifa as i'm sure he understands Cloud has a deep meaningful relationship with Aerith -- both for different reasons, interpret how you want if he believes either one to be romantic. I'm sure he also understands that one doesn't invalidate the other.

The man is allowed an opinion either way, I mean he is Cloud freaking Strife. He knows the character better than me or any of you ever can or will.

 

[Yoru]

And one last thing about Cody.

I don't think we're 12 anymore, folks. The concept of physical and therefore sexual attraction when you're in love is part of life. So yes, there's nothing wrong with saying that pushing a romantic relationship between adults is also pushing a sexualization of the relationship. All the more reason to accept his point of view that it's not healthy to do so between any relationship between a man and a woman in a story.

I found his message very clear and respectful. And it's nice to see how seriously and lovingly ALL the FF7 cast take their characters.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't know how I can put this anymore than ... I don't care. He is not above me, a superior person to me, and I don't have to defer to him.

He has a preference, he's entitled to it and being honest about who he prefers, doesn't mean people have to put him on a pedestal for it, if people don't want to bother with him they don't have to.