SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Hellenic]

Something I actually feel was kinda mean to Cleriths was that Cloud opens up to Tifa first instead of being a bit of an ass with her like in the OG. No longer does Cloud demand money and have to be reminded of the promise.

I really like how they handled the promise this time around, besides maybe the promise triggering in a very random location. The whole tender moment in Stargazers with Cloud bringing it up was so much better than Tifa just quickly bringing it up in OG in the bar and Cloud being like "oh yeah we did do that".

For some reason i saw quite a lot of people not like how they handled the promise in Remake and i'm not quite sure how OG was better in any way. The scene feels a lot stronger with Cloud remembering it himself and bringing it up honestly.

 

[Stiggie]

What was the end result if you don't mind me asking?

It ended up agreeing with me, thought I made a very coherent and well reasoned argument and then reiterated some of the stuff I said with its own input about how that fit with some of the earlier stuff I mentioned. It was great, it was how arguments always go inside your head XD

 

[Hellenic]

It ended up agreeing with me, thought I made a very coherent and well reasoned argument and then reiterated some of the stuff I said with its own input about how that fit with some of the earlier stuff I mentioned. It was great, it was how arguments always go inside your head XD

If only they went as well with real people.

 

[abzy1200]

I don't know what else to call their eventual reunion based on what the games have shown me. If Zack isn't a love interest to Aerith then what is he? Also did the person leave Aerith out of the importance equation there when she's the sole driving force for Zack in these games? Or i guess the implications was that Zack is not important to Aerith at all?

Forget that he's an "irreplaceable existence" to Aerith.

Fake concern happens so much and it often has the whole "let's push Zack and Tifa together couse they need someone like this for each other". I never buy into anyone pretending they care about Zack or Tifa when they do these kinda statements.

Zifa is a made up ship that nobody actually likes, it's just Cleriths trying to get rid of Zack and Tifa, convince me otherwise.

 

[Hellenic]

Something else that struck me about that conversation @ Cissnei's after the reactor. I might be wrong but during my Hardmode replay it struck me that it's by far one of the longest speaking parts Cloud has in the game. I'm not the person to sit there and dissect screen time etc.. but the whole conversation just struck me as completely different tonally and with how much actual talking he does.

He does talk quite a bit with Tifa in some of the quests with her too, most notably the gym quest i would say and he is very talkative in the Red Gold Saucer date also, which is why i really enjoyed that one. Granted the Gongaga talk is easily the most vulnerable he's ever been with anyone. Just shows how much he trusts Tifa to be this open with her.

 

[Hellenic]

Wonder what changes they'll make for part 3, if any.

Triple team up attacks. They have to now that they teased us with the Avalanche trio move against Jenova lifebringer.

 

[abzy1200]

Triple team up attacks. They have to now that they teased us with the Avalanche trio move against Jenova lifebringer.

Is this a safe space to say I thought that moment was cringe? I had to look away from my monitor when I saw it.

 

[Hellenic]

Is this a safe space to say I thought that moment was cringe? I had to look away from my monitor when I saw it.

Each to their own i guess. I found it cool and was disappointed i couldn't finish the fight with those 3 after.

 

[Hellenic]

Do we think the LS in part 3 will show more of Cloud and Tifa's early years than what was shown in ToTP? Like literally anything that happened before the promise.

I sure hope so.

 

[Hellenic]

Anyone else hate the idea of multiple endings. I feel like waiting this long to be a choose your own ending for the final part. Would be terrible.
Also they can make 15 bad endings and one good but not everyone will see that ending, so the arguments on which one is canon would never
end. Pretty much, in my opinion the worst possible outcome that or an ambigious interpet your own ending. If you have a story to tell also have a ending that you are confident in.

No thank you. I've seen quite a few people wanting multiple endings and we all know exactly why they want it. I don't want them to cop out with this game and trying to please everyone.

 

[abzy1200]

In trying to please everybody, you please nobody.

 

[Maidenofwar]

For me the dream date is a treasured memory that could help fill the white materia, I don't buy into any negativity, like Cloud doesn't know the church (he was teasing her), the church is also a place of quiet and peace for Cloud, important place for them, as noted in the Ultimanias, and where he goes in AC. Again I think if the intention was to make people not enjoy the date, they fumbled very badly.

(I'm not saying the church isn't an important ZA space, I just think it's a sacred space for everyone)

Edit; Well I want multiple endings because I don't want to be to feel like a joke or made fun of for years, I want everyone to get some happy, and some content for people to use in their fan videos, etc. On the contrary there are extremists on both sides that convinced that they are right and will win and their way is the only way so they refuse to entertain any other option, they are convinced one girl or the other will lose, and are ready to revel.

 

[Hellenic]

Dunno. I'd say any debate about FF8 shipping doesn't happen because the end is fairly conclusive / straightforward. It just doesn't matter that there seems to be some kind of sexual tension between Quistis and Squall early in the story because the ending isn't very open ended.

That one also ends up pretty quickly when one of the participants tells the other to go talk to a wall when they decide to open up. FF8 just didn't really open the gates much for Seifer or Quistis in the equation.

 

[Yoru]

It's not about winning or losing. It's about having a coherent story with a beginning, a middle and an end. FF7 has never been a "create your own story" game. Nor should it be. We take the story as the developers want it. Nothing more.

Still a lot of "FF7 fans" asking for anything and everything to get out of FF7. I don't understand the logic.

 

[abzy1200]

On the contrary there are extremists on both sides that convinced that they are right and will win and their way is the only way so they refuse to entertain any other option, they are convinced one girl or the other will lose, and are ready to revel.

Well, either a specific girl "wins" (hate when people put it like this), or the entire story crumbles. There's no need to be a complete prick about it though, which is something I see from both sides too often.

 

[Stiggie]

For me the dream date is a treasured memory that could help fill the white materia, I don't buy into any negativity, like Cloud doesn't know the church (he was teasing her), the church is also a place of quiet and peace for Cloud, important place for them, as noted in the Ultimanias, and where he goes in AC. Again I think if the intention was to make people not enjoy the date, they fumbled very badly.

(I'm not saying the church isn't an important ZA space, I just think it's a sacred space for everyone)

Edit; Well I want multiple endings because I don't want to be to feel like a joke or made fun of for years, I want everyone to get some happy, and some content for people to use in their fan videos, etc. On the contrary there are extremists on both sides that convinced that they are right and will win and their way is the only way so they refuse to entertain any other option, they are convinced one girl or the other will lose, and are ready to revel.

I don't, to me in this story multiple endings would be the same as no ending. It would be like watching one piece for a decade and then having it end without revealing what the one piece was. Sure, for some the one piece might be the "friends we made along the way", but for me this would be like a joke without a punchline. I would feel like I wasted my time and money being invested in something that never was.

It would be a bit like the ending to game of thrones, I loved the first 6 seasons, but a lot of that love came from the assumption that it was building up to something. That these mysteries had satisfying answers. Very often the reason something is enjoyable is because you expect a certain outcome. Like an iron puzzle that is fun to try and solve because you think there is a simple trick to it that will delight you when you find out. When it's then revealed that the trick is to get a hammer and hammer it into place the argument that "well, you had fun while you tried didn't you? Doesn't that matter most" would do nothing to quell my annoyance and disappointment. Sometimes enjoyment is conditional on pay-off.

To me the matter of Clouds romance with Tifa is essential enough to the story that I am more invested in it than I am in stopping Sephiroth, stopping Sephiroth is just a thing, something that needs to be done, it's sterile and devoid of passion and meaning. It's the underlying motivations and character arcs that give it meaning. So to end the story essentially without giving me a character arc, because that's what it means for there to be multiple endings, would be like ending the story without defeating Sephiroth. Because you're essentially telling me to make up how it ends by myself.

 

[Hellenic]

That in the grand scheme of things, it felt a little forced. Why have this date? The Sleeping Forest dream in OG was fine, granted that's going off my recollections of that other game.

I liked the Zack parts just cause it's Zack, but the date felt so out of place at this point. Aerith also starts the date off by telling Cloud to just play along before they left her house, too, which...I still don't know how I feel about. But the biggest thing that gets me here is how the Aerith here isn't "our" Aerith. And I don't care about this Aerith.

Why i don't personally like us having multiple Aeriths of different times in these games. I can't get invested on a version of her that only exists there for that one scene instead of the one who i've been with the whole game.

And like you said, i don't know why we needed both this and the dream date back to back. It just feels unnecessary as hell besides being used for the White materia swap.

Then they throw the like 5 different death/finale scenes of hers on top of that at the end too and i just didn't really care as much at that point.

 

[Hellenic]

I think at this point, everyone has gotten a peak at real Cloud in one way or another. Anytime he’s genuine and caring, I think that’s real Cloud peaking out from the persona that tailor made to hide that vulnerability.

Yeah this is how i see the "real Cloud peeks out" statements. He most strongly shows these moments with Tifa ofc, but he does have his little moments with everyone too where his kind and caring self is there instead of the cool wannabe SOLDIER act.

It's not that we don't have the true Cloud around and more so he puts up the act 90% of the time and the other 10% is where he slips out of his pretend SOLDIER self.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I’ll take it further and say multiple endings would flat out contradict Cloud’s whole character.

If Aerith lives at the end of all this and Tifa bows out because she sees that Aerith was his one true love all along, then say it with your chest out and your back straight.

 

[ViolaaFox]

Well, either a specific girl "wins" (hate when people put it like this), or the entire story crumbles. There's no need to be a complete prick about it though, which is something I see from both sides too often.

After the HA date with Tifa was posted on social media I actually found a Gamefaq forum where one person wrote something like it destroyed their life. It was very dramatic and they sounded serious about it.

 

[Hellenic]

For me the dream date is a treasured memory that could help fill the white materia, I don't buy into any negativity, like Cloud doesn't know the church (he was teasing her), the church is also a place of quiet and peace for Cloud, important place for them, as noted in the Ultimanias, and where he goes in AC. Again I think if the intention was to make people not enjoy the date, they fumbled very badly.

(I'm not saying the church isn't an important ZA space, I just think it's a sacred space for everyone)

Edit; Well I want multiple endings because I don't want to be to feel like a joke or made fun of for years, I want everyone to get some happy, and some content for people to use in their fan videos, etc. On the contrary there are extremists on both sides that convinced that they are right and will win and their way is the only way so they refuse to entertain any other option, they are convinced one girl or the other will lose, and are ready to revel.

I genuinely don't think he knew what she meant at first with the "our place" statement, only after they arrive he plays along and plays it cool by saying "gimme a harder one next time". If i was supposed to read his initial reaction to her bringing up the place as him just "teasing" her about not knowing then they failed in my eyes. It's still more of an "our place" to Zack and Aerith imo as they clearly spend more time there together than Cloud and Aerith ever do, which was a whopping one time. Ofc later on Cloud ends up spending more time there to deal with his grief and all that, but i don't think he necessarily thought much of the church at this point in time.

Ofc they intended the date to be enjoyable and a lot of people clearly did enjoy it, but it comes with a clear message given to the players with it.

I just can't get behind multiple endings because how are we supposed to justify multiple routes at this point in time? The games have clearly been building up towards specific conclusions (and yes i genuinely don't believe anyone who wants multiple endings wants them for anything other than ships). The games and other FF7 related material haven't been built to support this kinda approach at all and if Square caved in and decided to throw all this build up to the trash just to please people for some fictional ships then i would lose a lot of respect for them. There are games and other media for multiple ending stuff but this is not it.

People really do need to just enjoy ships in fanon form if the actual story doesn't go the way they want.

 

[Hellenic]

It's not about winning or losing. It's about having a coherent story with a beginning, a middle and an end. FF7 has never been a "create your own story" game. Nor should it be. We take the story as the developers want it. Nothing more.

Still a lot of "FF7 fans" asking for anything and everything to get out of FF7. I don't understand the logic.

Very much this right here. I don't want them to stain this work for stupid shit like this.

 

[Hellenic]

Well, either a specific girl "wins" (hate when people put it like this), or the entire story crumbles. There's no need to be a complete prick about it though, which is something I see from both sides too often.

It sure feels like a lot of people only care who wins and nothing else about this game sometimes.

 

[abzy1200]

I genuinely don't think he knew what she meant at first with the "our place" statement, only after they arrive he plays along and plays it cool by saying "gimme a harder one next time". If i was supposed to read his initial reaction to her bringing up the place as him just "teasing" her about not knowing then they failed in my eyes. It's still more of an "our place" to Zack and Aerith imo as they clearly spend more time there together than Cloud and Aerith ever do, which was a whopping one time. Ofc later on Cloud ends up spending more time there to deal with his grief and all that, but i don't think he necessarily thought much of the church at this point in time.

That's because she doesn't contextualise it as her and Cloud's "place". What she actually says is "a place of memories/feelings", which is much more in line with what we'd expect.

I just can't get behind multiple endings because how are we supposed to justify multiple routes at this point in time? The games have clearly been building up towards specific conclusions (and yes i genuinely don't believe anyone who wants multiple endings wants them for anything other than ships). The games and other FF7 related material haven't been built to support this kinda approach at all and if Square caved in and decided to throw all this build up to the trash just to please people for some fictional ships then i would lose a lot of respect for them. There are games and other media for multiple ending stuff but this is not it.

It sure feels like a lot of people only care who wins and nothing else about this game sometimes.

Having multiple endings for shipping reasons that contradicts earlier story developments is actually the textbook definition of fanservice. These people call Cloti fanservice and then beg for a dead character to come back to life without caring about the consequences it would have on the story or characters. Hilarious.

After the HA date with Tifa was posted on social media I actually found a Gamefaq forum where one person wrote something like it destroyed their life. It was very dramatic and they sounded serious about it.

This whole thing is unhealthy and spawns hate. That's why it's better off eradicated. It encourages these mobs of people to congregate and bully other people. I seriously don't like it.

 

[abzy1200]

Plus, how are these alternate endings going to pan out in the first place? There's only one Cloud who is currently up and active and is going to be saved by Tifa during the LS, and that's our one. Tifa is absent from the alternate worlds, so how will the alternate Clouds be saved to actually end up with Aerith?