SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rin]

For me the dream date is a treasured memory that could help fill the white materia

I don't agree with this since the Rebirth's white materia is still empty at the end of the game. The dream date didn't fill anything. Aerith just gave Cloud an alternate version of the white materia that never lost its lustre in the first place, that's why Sephiroth tells him it's "bad form" to bring it over to his world bc it doesn't belong there.

Unless you're trying to say that it's gonna play a role in filling the empty one in part 3 but I'd think Cloud's memories with HIS Aerith are more important and precious than a random, one-off interaction with an Aerith he does not know. Also, I'd really hope that it's the whole party's precious memories of Aerith that re-fill the white materia, and that the dream date has nothing to do with it since it was just a deus ex machina of a scene.

 

[Yoru]

We don't even know if what she says about her colorless matiera is true. As we can see from the rest of the game, Rebirth Aerith is pretty clueless about everything to do with the planet and the Cetras. She walks through Cosmo Canyon like a tourist, has no knowledge of Weapons or anything else. She's just a witness to what's going on. The only time she seems to take things a little more under control is when she "communicates" with the lifestream in the temple.

 

[Rin]

We don't even know if what she says about her colorless matiera is true. As we can see from the rest of the game, Rebirth Aerith is pretty clueless about everything to do with the planet and the Cetras. She walks through Cosmo Canyon like a tourist, has no knowledge of Weapons or anything else. She's just a witness to what's going on. The only time she seems to take things a little more under control is when she "communicates" with the lifestream in the temple.

Ya, true. She and Nanaki both are just guessing. Tbh, I would think that the white materia is full of knowledge about the planet, peoples lives, their hopes, dreams, etc. It's the opposite of the Black materia, which was created to destroy everything, so the white materia should heal/create everything....??? I have no idea and the game never really tells us aside from the fact that Holy is the strongest white magic spell out there but we don't know wtf that means and neither does Aerith lmao

And I don't see why Aerith losing her memories would make it go blank anyway. Shouldn't it be an amalgamation of EVERYONE'S memories? Maybe even all Cetra's memories? I don't get it at all but I'm just rolling with what we've been given at this point.

 

[abzy1200]

I don't agree with this since the Rebirth's white materia is still empty at the end of the game. The dream date didn't fill anything. Aerith just gave Cloud an alternate version of the white materia that never lost its lustre in the first place, that's why Sephiroth tells him it's "bad form" to bring it over to his world bc it doesn't belong there.

That's something else I'm curious about. Where did the idea that the white materia needs to be charged by happy memories come from? Did I miss something in-game when I should've been paying attention?

I also don't see how it could work if it was actually the case. If the goal is to fill it with happy memories, where are they going to come from? The party doesn't exactly have much to smile about going forward, and especially not when death is hanging over them like it's Majoras Mask. And if it's a situation where it has to be happy memories with Aerith or something, well then...we've already said goodbye to her like a million times, I don't think we need more. It also doesn't make sense from a player pov, since if they're trying to portray loss, and we're interacting with her and seeing her the whole time, then are they really evoking feelings of Aerith being gone within the player?

Going with an interpretation in which the materia needs to be filled with happy memories, this is the last (or one of) the last memories Cloud will have with Aerith, and it failed to fill it. So either:

The date wasn't a happy memory.

or

It's not a case of the materia needing to be filled with happy memories.

 

[ViolaaFox]

Having multiple endings for shipping reasons that contradicts earlier story developments is actually the textbook definition of fanservice. These people call Cloti fanservice and then beg for a dead character to come back to life without caring about the consequences it would have on the story or characters. Hilarious.

I've already made a joke about it on the Discord server, but SE could completely capitalise on it by releasing an FFVII Otome game.

 

[Rin]

That's something else I'm curious about. Where did the idea that the white materia needs to be charged by happy memories come from? Did I miss something in-game when I should've been paying attention?

I also don't see how it could work if it was actually the case. If the goal is to fill it with happy memories, where are they going to come from? The party doesn't exactly have much to smile about going forward, and especially not when death is hanging over them like it's Majoras Mask. And if it's a situation where it has to be happy memories with Aerith or something, well then...we've already said goodbye to her like a million times, I don't think we need more. It also doesn't make sense from a player pov, since if they're trying to portray loss, and we're interacting with her and seeing her the whole time, then are they really evoking feelings of Aerith being gone within the player?

Going with an interpretation in which the materia needs to be filled with happy memories, this is the last (or one of) the last memories Cloud will have with Aerith, and it failed to fill it. So either:

The date wasn't a happy memory.

or

It's not a case of the materia needing to be filled with happy memories.

Yeah, I don't know where the happy memories came from either. Aerith and Nanaki speculate that it's precious memories, but precious memories aren't always happy ones and the only memories Aerith lost were of the future, anyway. She still has all her past ones, so it can't even be memory of things that already happened because she didn't lose any of those.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I don't agree with this since the Rebirth's white materia is still empty at the end of the game. The dream date didn't fill anything. Aerith just gave Cloud an alternate version of the white materia that never lost its lustre in the first place, that's why Sephiroth tells him it's "bad form" to bring it over to his world bc it doesn't belong there.

Unless you're trying to say that it's gonna play a role in filling the empty one in part 3 but I'd think Cloud's memories with HIS Aerith are more important and precious than a random, one-off interaction with an Aerith he does not know.

It’s going to be the memories everyone has, and yes that will include Aerith but it won’t be purely about her.

There is a part where Cloud kind of petitions the planet on mankind’s behalf, so I imagine that’s when all those precious memories will come in handy

 

[Ryeleigh]

It should be quadruple something or another whatever you call it now, but alas, no one cares about that one NPC being added into the mix at this point in time, especially not when they don't really apply to the "who gets to be laid with Cloud" mindset .

Hey, Zack/Cloud is a totally valid option! Zack/Cloud/Tifa love triangle, go!

Jokes aside, Zack ends up breaking the whole triangle into pieces, which makes it become an issue to consider him in the equation, so people don't really. Even with how much they've added to his character over the years he's still considered a nobody afterall.

It's so funny, like he's considered "an unimportant NPC war criminal" and at the same time all the people who hate him thought he's going to steal the Re-trilogy from Cloud.

For me the dream date is a treasured memory that could help fill the white materia, I don't buy into any negativity, like Cloud doesn't know the church (he was teasing her), the church is also a place of quiet and peace for Cloud, important place for them, as noted in the Ultimanias, and where he goes in AC.

I don't think the church is a place of quiet and peace for Cloud yet, considering he's been there only once. I can agree on AC, though.

The games have clearly been building up towards specific conclusions (and yes i genuinely don't believe anyone who wants multiple endings wants them for anything other than ships).

I could take two endings: one where ZA stays dead and travel the Lifestream together and one where ZA gets to live and travel the planet together. But admittedly, the latter is just a selfish wish of mine.

There is a part where Cloud kind of petitions the planet on mankind’s behalf, so I imagine that’s when all those positive memories will come in handy

FF7 spirit bomb.

 

[Rin]

It’s going to be the memories everyone has, and yes that will include Aerith but it won’t be purely about her.

There is a part where Cloud kind of petitions the planet on mankind’s behalf, so I imagine that’s when all those positive memories will come in handy

100% would prefer this bc yes, the white materia is meant to save the PLANET. It can't just be charged by memories of one person, that would be crazy lol. Also, I could see it getting charged again (or partially charged) when Cloud falls into the LS as it would come into direct contact w/ the source of those precious memories that it lost.

 

[abzy1200]

But "everyone" here already has their precious memories? Like, they've lived their lives already. The game only takes places over the course of about a month, so why isn't it filled right now if so? If it was precious memories with Aerith, then she's gone. No more memories with her. If it's everyone's own precious memories...they've already kinda experienced them, so why isn't it filled right now? How many precious memories are they going to create in such a short time that make the difference?

 

[Rin]

But "everyone" here already has their precious memories? Like, they've lived their lives already. The game only takes places over the course of about a month, so why isn't it filled right now if so? If it was precious memories with Aerith, then she's gone. No more memories with her. If it's everyone's own precious memories...they've already kinda experienced them, so why isn't it filled right now? How many precious memories are they going to create in such a short time that make the difference?

Ya, that's actually why I actually think it makes the most sense for it to be charged when Cloud falls into the LS. It needs the precious memories of the planet which includes past, present, and future.

 

[pxl_pushr]

But "everyone" here already has their precious memories? Like, they've lived their lives already. The game only takes places over the course of about a month, so why isn't it filled right now if so? If it was precious memories with Aerith, then she's gone. No more memories with her. If it's everyone's own precious memories...they've already kinda experienced them, so why isn't it filled right now? How many precious memories are they going to create in such a short time that make the difference?

Keeping in mind that we’re dealing with a jrpg at the end of the day, I’m guessing quality>quantity.

So, for example, Barret’s precious memories of Marlene would be potent because they mean a lot to him.

Cloud will get a whole reel of memories he’s made since… well.. his whole life. “There’s nothing I don’t cherish” 100% getting said here.

So yeah, it’ll get charged from everyone and basically be a spirit bomb lol because there’s a little DBZ in everything

 

[Hellenic]

That's because she doesn't contextualise it as her and Cloud's "place". What she actually says is "a place of memories/feelings", which is much more in line with what we'd expect.

Yeah that's fair i guess if that was the angle they were going for. Maybe i misunderstood Aeriths purpose there. Though we still do get the Zack framing in the church multiple times in Rebirth, including in this very same date here, so the scene definitely comes across as if the church is supposed to be more than just their reuniting place after the upper plate first meetup, so the word use is just weird then. I suppose it's meant to be the starting place of them being entangled with each other thereinafter so it's important enough to be called "our place".

Having multiple endings for shipping reasons that contradicts earlier story developments is actually the textbook definition of fanservice. These people call Cloti fanservice and then beg for a dead character to come back to life without caring about the consequences it would have on the story or characters. Hilarious.

it's always the double standards. Tifa getting a kiss is fanservice, but Aerith not dying and being able to hook up with Cloud would not be.

After the HA date with Tifa was posted on social media I actually found a Gamefaq forum where one person wrote something like it destroyed their life. It was very dramatic and they sounded serious about it.

This whole thing is unhealthy and spawns hate. That's why it's better off eradicated. It encourages these mobs of people to congregate and bully other people. I seriously don't like it.

I don't think anyone should get as invested in a fictional relationship as this Gamefaqs person seems to have been, but multiple endings definitely wouldn't make the bullying any better either. The same old rumba would just keep going but people would keep on debating which ending is the real canonical one instead so the whole thing just keeps on rolling and nothing will actually change.

Getting finality to this work of fiction will at least clear out some of the bad weeds and toxicity so most people can enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Yoru]

The white materia is an object that the Cetras pass down from generation to generation, Aerith being the last of them. I don't see how her "fake" date with Cloud would replace millennia of memories.

For me, it's just symbolic. The white material represents the hopes and love of the souls that make up the planet. Black materia represents their hatred and anger. This is what Sephiroth seeks to bring chaos to worlds. This is his great reunion. It's storing up as much negative energy as possible to summon meteor.

It's the same with the white whispers and the black ones. Those who want to fight vs those who want to end it all.

 

[Hellenic]

Hey, Zack/Cloud is a totally valid option! Zack/Cloud/Tifa love triangle, go!

There definitely is a side of the fandom who are into that for sure.

It's so funny, like he's considered "an unimportant NPC war criminal" and at the same time all the people who hate him thought he's going to steal the Re-trilogy from Cloud.

I always very hard disagreed with the takes that he would take the main character position from Cloud when he goes missing. Still not sure why anyone genuinely thought it was a good idea besides some people who just don't like Cloud and prefer Zack as the protag and getting him into that limelight instead i guess.

I don't think the church is a place of quiet and peace for Cloud yet, considering he's been there only once. I can agree on AC, though.

This is how i see it too. I don't genuinely think the church means a whole lot to Cloud right now, but it definitely becomes an important place for him after. It's not like he would go crash at Elmyras house either to grief so the church is the most fitting place.

I could take two endings: one where ZA stays dead and travel the Lifestream together and one where ZA gets to live and travel the planet together. But admittedly, the latter is just a selfish wish of mine.

ZA reunites in death is the only one i'll accept. No revive Zack and Aerith to be together in the world of the living thanks. I'll let you have that selfish wish though, just won't personally subscribe to it.

 

[abzy1200]

Keeping in mind that we’re dealing with a jrpg at the end of the day, I’m guessing quality>quantity.

So, for example, Barret’s precious memories of Marlene would be potent because they mean a lot to him.

Cloud will get a whole reel of memories he’s made since… well.. his whole life. “There’s nothing I don’t cherish” 100% getting said here.

So yeah, it’ll get charged from everyone and basically be a spirit bomb lol because there’s a little DBZ in everything

The thing is though, I'm certain there are other people on the planet or that have existed that have memories that are just as precious to them as the memories AVALANCHE has made.

It just feels inconsistent. Why are Cloud's precious memories worth more than some random guy a thousand years ago's precious memories? Or some other guy currently on the other side of the planet? It feels a bit too much like a "chosen one" plot, that I'm usually not a fan of, and certainly not for Cloud. And those other guys already have their precious memories, so why isn't it filled right now if so? Isn't the whole point that Cloud isn't some kind of "chosen one", and that's what makes him compelling?

 

[Rin]

Also, in regards to multiple endings I think that would go directly against what Nojima said about making FFVII less open to interpretation with this Remake. He doesn't want ambiguity. He's actually sick of it, so I don't think we need to worry about that, personally.

 

[Yoru]

The Gii's plan has been to pray for millennia. To counter this prayer, the Cetras came up with the idea of stealing and hiding the black materia, while creating their own white materia of love, memories, dreams and hope. And they pass it on from generation to generation in the event that one day they need to save the planet. Literally a fail-safe for the planet.

 

[Ryeleigh]

ZA reunites in death is the only one i'll accept. No revive Zack and Aerith to be together in the world of the living thanks. I'll let you have that selfish wish though, just won't personally subscribe to it.

It's cool. I'm sure I can find fan fics for it, lol.

 

[Hellenic]

That's something else I'm curious about. Where did the idea that the white materia needs to be charged by happy memories come from? Did I miss something in-game when I should've been paying attention?

I think i threw that idea out there in this thread at one point wondering about the white materia, not really sure if it was ever explained exactly how it works though.

 

[Hellenic]

I've already made a joke about it on the Discord server, but SE could completely capitalise on it by releasing an FFVII Otome game.

That's one way to please people i guess. Release a separate Visual Novel style spin-off game with these characters and have fun with that. Though then people would debate with that too aarghh.

 

[Yoru]

And I'm pretty sure that Chadley's data of the entire history of the world would be more likely to save us once injected into white materia than the memories of a date in Cloud's head. The first time he hugged Tifa, too (so there's no jealousy).

 

[Empyrea]

Literally a fail-safe for the planet.

That's kinda funny, in the sense that in OG, Holy wasn't only blocked by Seph but also failed anyway and that's why the Planet used the lifestream itself to fight Meteor. If DoC had already been written by then, Omega might've been summoned first before Aerith prayed for the planet to reconsider

 

[Rin]

And I'm pretty sure that Chadley's data of the entire history of the world would be more likely to save us once injected into white materia than the memories of a date in Cloud's head. The first time he hugged Tifa, too (so there's no jealousy).

Hey, didn't they do something like that in DoC? Lmaooo maybe you're not too far off

 

[Nancy]

I guess they just suck at designing new characters and wanted to run with the blond blue eyes template for this guy again.

I mean look at the KH's character, most of them have blue eyes so they love blue eyes character lol