SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rin]

Personally, I say so. People who ship CA (in the sense of making it canon against all odds) are not FF7 fans and don't like FF7.

Some just like Aerith and Cloud is the default choice because he's the hero of the story. Another part likes the couple for what they represent in their idea of romance.

But they don't care about the story of FF7. They're just fan of a character.

It's mostly the opposite, actually. They like Cloud and they self-insert into Aerith. They can't with Tifa because she's too strong of a character (even though they argue otherwise, but if she was as bland and non-important as they claim she is, her entire existence wouldn't trigger them as much as it does lol)

 

[Yoru]

It's mostly the opposite, actually. They like Cloud and they self-insert into Aerith. They can't with Tifa because she's too strong of a character (even though they argue otherwise, but if she was as bland and non-important as they claim she is, her entire existence wouldn't trigger them as much as it does lol)

Good point too.

 

[pxl_pushr]

It's mostly the opposite, actually. They like Cloud and they self-insert into Aerith. They can't with Tifa because she's too strong of a character (even though they argue otherwise, but if she was as bland and non-important as they claim she is, her entire existence wouldn't trigger them as much as it does lol)

I put them and the people who demonize Aerith all in the same bucket like a bunch of crabs. Let them spiral around eachother while everyone else hashes out the actual story and layers of these characters without needing to paint them as mustache-twirling villains.

Tifa isn’t a childhood bully turned manipulative seductress lording a childhood promise over poor sweet Cloud

Aerith isn’t a petulant Demi-goddess trying to steal another woman’s man because she’s a hypocritical whatever whatever

Both women have their own things going on beyond Cloud and including Cloud, and I’m enjoying how both avenues flesh them out individually.

 

[Eerie]

I wanted to share this because Yamazki is talking about what he had to do for the Gongaga scene:

x.com

x.com

His thoughts are very interesting; he said they rehearsed it for a long time so be able to shoot it in one go. And you can clearly see that they have the mood, characters' thoughts and feelings explained to them, in order to play "right", to give the proper mood to the scene.

This is why his opinion is important and that's what I was saying earlier.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I wanted to share this because Yamazki is talking about what he had to do for the Gongaga scene:

x.com

x.com

His thoughts are very interesting; he said they rehearsed it for a long time so be able to shoot it in one go. And you can clearly see that they have the mood, characters' thoughts and feelings explained to them, in order to play "right", to give the proper mood to the scene.

This is why his opinion is important and that's what I was saying earlier.

Yeah, if they can nail part 3, the retrospective on this trilogy will have a lot of good overarching development.

 

[Yoru]

I find it so exciting. I'm always amazed at the amount of detail they put into scenes that the average viewer won't even notice.

Personally, that's why I love this project. I can feel the passion.

 

[Hellenic]

It's shocking how often "Sephiroth killed everyone Cloud knew growing up, also his mother" gets ignored. I know I've had people say Cloud had no personal motivation to chase after Sephiroth until after Aerith died, when it's actually that only He and Tifa had a personal vendetta against Sephiroth before Aerith died, and after which everyone did.

I mean, Aerith clearly wasn't dead when they decided to chase after him after they left Midgar but okay then.

You're giving them more credit than I am in assuming they've read Tifa's half of traces of two pasts in any capacity.

I suppose i did, though read or not, i imagine it would still get twisted. I would like to see a genuine take on ToTP from one of these people but it likely will never happen.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I mean, Aerith clearly wasn't dead when they decided to chase after him after they left Midgar but okay then.

I never said the argument made any sense. I just said someone made it to me.

I suppose i did, though read or not, i imagine it would still get twisted. I would like to see a genuine take on ToTP from one of these people but it likely will never happen.

What gets me is that I don't think I've seen any of them saying anything at all about 2000 gil to be a hero, at all really.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I never said the argument made any sense. I just said someone made it to me.


What gets me is that I don't think I've seen any of them saying anything at all about 2000 gil to be a hero, at all really.

Funny how Cloud’s side of things is always glossed over, ignored, or projected upon… makes ya think.

 

[Hellenic]

I never said the argument made any sense. I just said someone made it to me.

I guess i wasn't clear enough but that reply was meant to be towards whoever told you that, not you .

What gets me is that I don't think I've seen any of them saying anything at all about 2000 gil to be a hero, at all really.

Yeah definitely haven't come across anyone of them even mention of it's existence.

 

[Yoru]

Yeah definitely haven't come across anyone of them even mention of it's existence.

When you can't distort reality to change the meaning of the text, just ignore it.

Cloud himself says he's doing all this for Tifa and hasn't asked her opinion. It's his choice alone.

Honestly, it's hard to argue with that. So yes, they'll just ignore it. If nobody talks about it, maybe it'll disappear.

 

[nars305]

When you can't distort reality to change the meaning of the text, just ignore it.

It is interesting now that I think about it. I do see the excerpt getting posted in response to someone else’s argument but, yeah, it gets ignored. There really isn’t anything you can say against 2000 Gil, and it is such a recent piece of the lore.

Even so, with 2000 Gil and ToTP, somehow Tifa is still a bully who makes Cloud cave to his insecurities as she forces him to want to be a hero.

 

[Hellenic]

When you can't distort reality to change the meaning of the text, just ignore it.

Cloud himself says he's doing all this for Tifa and hasn't asked her opinion. It's his choice alone.

Honestly, it's hard to argue with that. So yes, they'll just ignore it. If nobody talks about it, maybe it'll disappear.

You'd imagine they would just give us "but this was Cloud in the past and he's moved on now" takes. But i guess they realize those don't work anymore.

 

[pxl_pushr]

You'd imagine they would just give us "but this was Cloud in the past and he's moved on now" takes. But i guess they realize those don't work anymore.

Kinda hard to go that route when the timeline of his life doesn’t allow for it lol kinda easy to slap that answer down by what the game says.

 

[Ryeleigh]

You know, I do wonder what the extreme CAs -- the ones who believe that CA will be endgame -- think that the devs are doing? Why reiterate Cloud and Tifa's childhood feelings for each other again and again if those feelings are meaningless in the present? Why bring the dead ex-boyfriend back to just -- I don't even know -- rub it in his face that the love of his life has moved on? Like, if they brought Zack back just to have him watch Aerith walk off in the sunset with Cloud, that'd be such bizarrely petty writing that I can't even comprehend it, lol?

 

[Yoru]

You'd imagine they would just give us "but this was Cloud in the past and he's moved on now" takes. But i guess they realize those don't work anymore.

This is equivalent to acknowledging the text and therefore putting a big damper on their stories of a toxic Tifa who mistreats Cloud by forcing him to be what he doesn't want to be. So yeah. Much easier to just forget about it.

 

[Yoru]

You know, I do wonder what the extreme CAs -- the ones who believe that CA will be endgame -- think that the devs are doing? Why reiterate Cloud and Tifa's childhood feelings for each other again and again if those feelings are meaningless in the present? Why bring the dead ex-boyfriend back to just -- I don't even know -- rub it in his face that the love of his life has moved on? Like, if they brought Zack back just to have him watch Aerith walk off in the sunset with Cloud, that'd be such bizarrely petty writing that I can't even comprehend it, lol?

Honestly? Sorry to sound mean and sneaky, but for that... you'd have to have logic.

And that's something they don't have. They're far too locked into their preconceptions.

They can't even see what you're describing. In Rebirth Cloud only pushes Tifa away, she disturbs him, sticks to him, and prevents him from serenely living out his love with Aerith. She's just an easy way to vent his frustration and jealousy at Zack (at best)

We're literally playing different games.

 

[imach0c0]

Just adding my thoughts --

I think some people in the fandom do not understand Aerith's character as well her character arc. Her relationship with Zack (especially her struggles with how she tries to cope with letting him go) is part of her character arc.

People misinterpret Aerith wanting to move on = Aerith moving on from Zack. However, they fail to see that Aerith's HEAD and HEART are in 2 different places. Yes, she wants to move on, however, she struggles to let go of him because she lacks closure. And when she thinks of falling in love again, she feels guilty because she thinks she'll forget Zack. But she also can't stop thinking about Zack. She is stuck. (This is explained in her monologue). We have further context in Gongaga, when she says: "He never gave her a reason to dislike him," (JP paraphrase) Its even more complicated when Cloud is a reminder of Zack at first.

On the surface it looks Aerith is moving on OR has moved on from Zack. (What the game is TELLING us). However, if we examine the scenes and look further, there is a lot of subtext that indicates Aerith has not moved on from Zack and may still linger for him. (What the game is SHOWING us). The problem is people just look at things at face value and will cherry pick anything that supports their head canon and confirmation bias.

I think the game does a great job in depicting Aerith's struggle regarding her conflicting emotions through the use of visual storytelling. (SHOW not TELL).

What we see on the surface is where Aerith's HEAD is at. If we look beyond the surface, we see where Aerith's HEART is.

 

[Sacky]

Just adding my thoughts --

I think some people in the fandom do not understand Aerith's character as well her character arc. Her relationship with Zack (especially her struggles with how she tries to cope with letting him go) is part of her character arc.

People misinterpret Aerith wanting to move on = Aerith moving on from Zack. However, they fail to see that Aerith's HEAD and HEART are in 2 different places. Yes, she wants to move on, however, she struggles to let go of him because she lacks closure. And when she thinks of falling in love again, she feels guilty because she thinks she'll forget Zack. But she also can't stop thinking about Zack. She is stuck. (This is explained in her monologue). We have further context in Gongaga, when she says: "He never gave her a reason to dislike him," (JP paraphrase) Its even more complicated when Cloud is a reminder of Zack at first.

On the surface it looks Aerith is moving on OR has moved on from Zack. (What the game is TELLING us). However, if we examine the scenes and look further, there is a lot of subtext that indicates Aerith has not moved on from Zack and may still linger for him. (What the game is SHOWING us). The problem is people just look at things at face value and will cherry pick anything that supports their head canon and confirmation bias.

I think the game does a great job in depicting Aerith's struggle regarding her conflicting emotions through the use of visual storytelling. (SHOW not TELL).

What we see on the surface is where Aerith's HEAD is at. If we look beyond the surface, we see where Aerith's HEART is.

I lost faith in people when they keep saying Marlene saying Aerith likes Cloud means that Zack is now forgotten about
and that Marlene is the voice of wisdom. When she had to describe who Sephiroth is, she showed that shes seen Aeriths death
not peered into her soul and mind like some people claim.

 

[pxl_pushr]

And

Just adding my thoughts --

I think some people in the fandom do not understand Aerith's character as well her character arc. Her relationship with Zack (especially her struggles with how she tries to cope with letting him go) is part of her character arc.

People misinterpret Aerith wanting to move on = Aerith moving on from Zack. However, they fail to see that Aerith's HEAD and HEART are in 2 different places. Yes, she wants to move on, however, she struggles to let go of him because she lacks closure. And when she thinks of falling in love again, she feels guilty because she thinks she'll forget Zack. But she also can't stop thinking about Zack. She is stuck. (This is explained in her monologue). We have further context in Gongaga, when she says: "He never gave her a reason to dislike him," (JP paraphrase) Its even more complicated when Cloud is a reminder of Zack at first.

On the surface it looks Aerith is moving on OR has moved on from Zack. (What the game is TELLING us). However, if we examine the scenes and look further, there is a lot of subtext that indicates Aerith has not moved on from Zack and may still linger for him. (What the game is SHOWING us). The problem is people just look at things at face value and will cherry pick anything that supports their head canon and confirmation bias.

I think the game does a great job in depicting Aerith's struggle regarding her conflicting emotions through the use of visual storytelling. (SHOW not TELL).

What we see on the surface is where Aerith's HEAD is at. If we look beyond the surface, we see where Aerith's HEART is.

you’ve just unlocked the key to almost every character in the cast. What they do betrays what they say.

It’s true for Barret, it’s true for Cloud, it’s true for Tifa, it’s true for Yuffie, and I’m convinced it’s true for Vincent and Cid once we can dive deeper into them.

If what they say and what they do don’t match, then look at what they do because it’s likely closer to the truth.

 

[Sacky]

And

you’ve just unlocked the key to almost every character in the cast. What they do betrays what they say.

It’s true for Barret, it’s true for Cloud, it’s true for Tifa, it’s true for Yuffie, and I’m convinced it’s true for Vincent and Cid once we can dive deeper into them.

If what they say and what they do don’t match, then look at what they do because it’s likely closer to the truth.

its shocking people don't realise this that characters and what they say
if their actions aren't matching their word, there is something else going on.
Though in the case of Tifa people have no excuse its written into traces
that she didn't fall in love with SOLDIER Cloud but Real Cloud like people should
have thought.

 

[overheat28]

You know, I do wonder what the extreme CAs -- the ones who believe that CA will be endgame -- think that the devs are doing? Why reiterate Cloud and Tifa's childhood feelings for each other again and again if those feelings are meaningless in the present? Why bring the dead ex-boyfriend back to just -- I don't even know -- rub it in his face that the love of his life has moved on? Like, if they brought Zack back just to have him watch Aerith walk off in the sunset with Cloud, that'd be such bizarrely petty writing that I can't even comprehend it, lol?

I don't get it, either. Their arguments hinge on Aerith's supposed happy ending - she wanted to live, you see. Why are you pushing Aerith to be dead together with a rando she doesn't even love anymore - you must hate Aerith and Zack! She wants to be alive with Cloud.

When you ask what happens to Zack in this happy scenario, crickets. If lucky, I'll get something like oh he can be alive too, just with Cissnei. Or no sorry, Zack is a side character we can't bring back everyone, that would ruin Cloud's story. Like dude was brought back just to learn about Aerith loving Cloud now and presumably to play some kind of role in the LS sequence, after which he can dissolve back to nothingness. Zack's main purpose is to bring Cloud and Aerith back together, you see. Cloud then supposedly rescues Aerith, she puts his mind back together, they defeat Sephiroth, and Tifa eats grass at CA's wedding just like she deserves. That's about the gist of their vision for p3.

The gaslighting going on is insane. Today for example, I learned Loveless doesn't have anything to do with Zack. Cloud caught the reunion petal during NPTK, Zack let's it go - checkmate he's letting go of Aerith. I mean Cloud caught it when he is playing Alphreid - this is significant. When he's not Alphreid, he doesn't want anything to do with the reunion pin in the dream date despite being told to play along. Aerith accepts it by herself. Zack is then shown a few minutes later chasing the reunion petals (not letting them go). Let's not forget the man is basically tied to Aerith's church with an umbilical cord - that's where he's always coming back no matter what in all media since like ACC and Crisis Core. Ever Crisis is reluctant to even show him anywhere else in promotional materials. And I won't even attempt to make sense of what hardcore CAs desire for Tifa - I've heard Emilio and Johnny mentioned.

These people aren't serious. The game has taken on a new dimension in their heads. I get it at some leveI, I too thought after Remake the story could go differently. But after Rebirth, I can't see anyone thinking that in good faith. Seems like setting yourself up for major disappointment and whiplash.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I don't get it, either. Their arguments hinge on Aerith's supposed happy ending - she wanted to live, you see. Why are you pushing Aerith to be dead together with a rando she doesn't even love anymore - you must hate Aerith and Zack! She wants to be alive with Cloud.

When you ask what happens to Zack in this happy scenario, crickets. If lucky, I'll get something like oh he can be alive too, just with Cissnei. Or no sorry, Zack is a side character we can't bring back everyone, that would ruin Cloud's story. Like dude was brought back just to learn about Aerith loving Cloud now and presumably to play some kind of role in the LS sequence, after which he can dissolve back to nothingness. Zack's main purpose is to bring Cloud and Aerith back together, you see. Cloud then supposedly rescues Aerith, she puts his mind back together, they defeat Sephiroth, and Tifa eats grass at CA's wedding just like she deserves. That's about the gist of their vision for p3.

The gaslighting going on is insane. Today for example, I learned Loveless doesn't have anything to do with Zack. Cloud caught the reunion petal during NPTK, Zack let's it go - checkmate he's letting go of Aerith. I mean Cloud caught it when he is playing Alphreid - this is significant. When he's not Alphreid, he doesn't want anything to do with the reunion pin in the dream date despite being told to play along. Aerith accepts it by herself. Zack is then shown a few minutes later chasing the reunion petals (not letting them go). Let's not forget the man is basically tied to Aerith's church with an umbilical cord - that's where he's always coming back no matter what in all media since like ACC and Crisis Core. Ever Crisis is reluctant to even show him anywhere else in promotional materials. And I won't even attempt to make sense of what hardcore CAs desire for Tifa - I've heard Emilio and Johnny mentioned.

These people aren't serious. The game has taken on a new dimension in their heads. I get it at some leveI, I too thought after Remake the story could go differently. But after Rebirth, I can't see anyone thinking that in good faith. Seems like setting yourself up for major disappointment and whiplash.

( looks at Jessie’s angel costume in Loveless, then looks at the angel statue that was in front of Jenova in Nibelheim’s reactor )

Yeah, I would be very cautious about using Loveless for anything lol that thing is tailor made to cross us up.

 

[Rin]

( looks at Jessie’s angel costume in Loveless, then looks at the angel statue that was in front of Jenova in Nibelheim’s reactor )

Yeah, I would be very cautious about using Loveless for anything lol that thing is tailor made to cross us up.

To be fair, the devs themselves say that the story of LOVELESS represents Zack and that wrote a whole breakdown for why/how in the CC ultimania lmao but I agree that the symbolism can get rather confusing

 

[pxl_pushr]

To be fair, the devs themselves say that the story of LOVELESS represents Zack and that wrote a whole breakdown for why/how in the CC ultimania lmao but I agree that the symbolism can get rather confusing

Oh yeah, how it applies to CC is pretty much set, my only point is that as “guidebook to future events” Loveless is written in such a way that who fills what role can be slotted in, out, and switched around however the devs see fit.

Say that Jenova is the goddess and the story reads different than if, for example, LS Aerith fills the role of the goddess or if Sephiroth fills that role. It’s actually kinda fascinating in that way if that’s how they choose to use it.

That’s why I much rather use it as a tool for retrospect, seeing how it fits a completed puzzle.