SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[zinniawoods109349]

again, spoilers in this post!

sorry, to be clear, i believe that cloud likes aerith as a friend, a close one at that, and that those are his own feelings.

i was wondering whether zack’s romantic feelings for aerith could have manifested in cloud, thus making it possible that romantic interpretations could be true in the first two games, with his romantic feelings resolved in the final one after he pieces everything together. i thought that barret telling him to pick one indicated that there is a possibility that he does come across as though he could like both and that it’s not just down to players’ choices; i thought barret surely isn’t interested in the situation but must’ve noticed something from cloud’s end to say that, somewhat of an acknowledgement of the triangle perhaps. when aerith told cloud that his feelings aren’t real, he said ‘don’t i get a say in all this?’ which sounded, to me, like somewhat of a protest to her statement.

i’m not saying that cloud is in love with aerith, i’m just wondering whether maybe he feels something romantic towards her that he doesn’t understand (because it stems from zack), which is why he’s not turning her down or straight up saying no because of his feelings for tifa (he’s just trying to figure them out first perhaps). i thought that, if this was the case, then it could make players’ choices still relevant to the story rather than it seeming jarring near the end of rebirth/in the final part to people who chose the aerith route and didn’t pick up on the tifa scenes. like i said, i was surprised he didn’t sit next to aerith in the GS date because i romanced her as best i could all the way through, lol. but, anyway, maybe it’s just my wishful thinking to have everything tied up neatly because i want it to be made clear cut in the final part that he only ever loved tifa and isn’t just settling because aerith is gone. i can already imagine the rebound statements.

i’ve always wanted to read the japanese translation of the game, but i can’t find it anywhere. and it’s hard to tell whether what i’m reading is translated by someone biased. i definitely want to read the zack scenes at least and get to the bottom of this kyu kyu business (i managed to get the angle scene confirmed in japanese though, which sounded terrible to me in english. i know that, in german, he says that she gets more beautiful with every date, which seems more appropriate lol).

the shipping was never a big deal to me; i just had my own idea and kept it to myself while enjoying it and the game. but because zack is my favourite and we are constantly forced to watch him only go through hell while he maintains that positive attitude and continues putting everyone else first, i just want him to finally find some happiness somewhere, and it seems the easiest way for that to happen is if he gets to be with aerith again. it’s fine to me if they are both dead together in the lifestream; i don’t need them to be alive, just together. he really showed up to cloud five minutes too late and told him to save her and i really cannot believe they have brought him back only to tell him that aerith has feelings for his best friend (if this is what was said in japanese; i would love to hear that it wasn’t).

 

[looneymoon]

I think we're all honest enough to understand that you can't sell a film entirely in CGI to your investors (even more so when your first attempt practically bankrupted you) simply on the story of the daily life of married couple. Of course you had to find an excuse to explain the action moments and create drama.

Personally, I don't really understand what that has to do with the argument. And I don't see your point.

Is it CT's fault that the film sucks? Their story isn't interesting enough, so it's their fault they chose to put Sephiroth in it ? I just think the film sucks. Because like most of the compilation project, it's just content for the idea of content.

So yeah I'm sorry if I'm dumb, but I really don't understand why AC is some living proof for people to explain CT is not really a thing. Aerith and Zack are still dead. Cloud and Tifa are still living with a child calling Tifa mom.

Nah C/T isn't the reason why the film sucks, but the devs do such a poor job at selling C/T 's arc in the film even though that's literally the heart of the movie. It's a really difficult thing to explain that C/T is the emotional center of the movie's plot, because the writers are so confused as to how to even present the stakes. I'm also talking about a non-shipper's POV btw. I have literally explained this to normies/casuals and they've blinked at me as if I've been blinded by shipping goggles even though it's the literal truth. Sometimes it's really not a media literacy problem, sometimes media is just that bad at communicating its ideas, and people who don't have any dog in the race honestly don't even understand what was intended in the first place.

If it were up to me, AC/C would have been a stronger film if there wasn't any Sephiroth and they spent more time delving into C/T's relationship. The film doesn't really show them being actually happy before everything kind of goes to shit, so the audience doesn't know what to make of it when they're thrust into a story where they're already in the middle of the problem. It's all just really bad emotional story telling.

Like I said, I'm not coming to this from a shipper POV. I am coming at this from someone who has interacted with casuals who have followed the franchise from the OG to now. This is a much bigger audience than anyone in any hardcore shipping community represents, or anyone who is curious enough to look at developer statements. I reject the fact that this audience is somehow dumb or not media literate about where C/T end up... because ultimately the writers have been so weird about how they portray it. I know the story they want to tell with them, and imo they do a really bad job at telling it.

I think the Rebirth series is being better about clarity... but at the end of the day, we still lead to AC lol. If the whole point of the journey is to also link up to AC, then it's like... well, that's still a really shitty movie that I still need to narratively grapple with lmfao. It isn't about what's canon or what's not, it's more like I don't even know why I should even care. Or why I should even try to explain the point of AC to anyone who wasn't as curious enough to look into what it was all about. The OG story made me feel like I should, as it made me partial to Cloud and Tifa's romance. Everything after? Eh, idk if I'm here for it tbh.

Not super here for C/A either honestly btw. The Remakes are making me think that they should just like... sure, force him save the world yeah. But maybe dump him after? Lol.

 

[imach0c0]

when i read later that aerith was also partly speaking to herself, it still made sense because it seemed that, while she thought she was in love with cloud, it was actually just her feelings for zack being stirred up because of their similarities

Aerith was initially attracted to Cloud because of his similarities to Zack and how she saw Zack in Cloud. However, I think Aerith did develop romantic feelings towards Cloud (separate from Zack). However, what may play into the illusion is that she never meets the "real" Cloud so its questionable of "what" she was falling for. That and paired with the fact she could be still projecting Zack onto Cloud (as she has not moved on from Zack and still lingers for him - whether she realizes it or not).

it also makes sense with aerith wondering what kind of feelings she has for cloud at the end of rebirth. she already said in remake that they’re not real, so the end of rebirth is when she realises that, surely? to me, it seemed as though she was realising they’re not romantic when they were talking in the church. but, regardless of zack, she’s already said they’re not real, so is there really ambiguity anyway about how she feels towards cloud?

Remake Chapter 14 Aerith is from the distant future (REMAKE Ultimania) and Dream Date Aerith is not our Aerith (REBIRTH Ultimania). In JP, Aerith questions what kind of "suki" it means to her. If you scroll back to earlier posts, there have been posts that explained the different types of "suki." Long story short, I think the "suki" (type of like) that Aerith developed for Cloud was romantic. The reason why she questions it is it seems she is trying to figure out to what degree these romantic feelings lie (i.e. crush or infatuation). I also think this question is a setup that is to be answered during the ZA reunion. (as she still seems to harbour feelings for Zack).

it is possible though that i’m now just trying to convince myself to make myself feel better because zack……

i loved how every time zack or aerith looked at the sky, it showed the other looking back, and i loved how their lines mirrored each other.

If you pay attention, visual storytelling (cinematography, symbolism, parallel dialogues, etc) is used to depict the ZA story.

the final date that aerith had with cloud made me uncomfortable. i didn’t really get all the zack references, but when she mentioned “our place”, i was so surprised that she would say that to cloud. hasn’t he only been there with her like once or something? zack practically lived there. i’ve seen people deny that this date has any significance to the crisis core date, but when zack and biggs walk from near the church to sector 5, someone says in the background “a lot of good dates started right here…”, so i feel like the developers definitely had the crisis core date in mind.


in rebirth, i still gave all the preferable responses to aerith and the non-preferable responses to tifa because that’s how i’ve always played ff7 (and i didn’t consider zack since he wasn’t in the game much until the end). quite early on though, i found my 27-year dislike for tifa starting to change, and aerith even started to annoy me a bit, which really surprised me.

If you scroll back, there are some interesting analyses regarding the Dream Date and Zack references. Seeing the Remake Trilogy employs a lot of visual storytelling and subtext in the way they tell the story, I think the Zack references are intentional.

Also - Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

[Maidenofwar]

The new Ultimanias have confirmed (like the old Ultimanias) that Aerith likes Cloud, can't believe it's 2024 and I'm still here.

 

[abzy1200]

The problem is that she never met Cloud to like Cloud. Sure, she wanted to give Cloud a chance, and she was beginning to see him for him instead of Zack, which is what her GS date is about. But she never meets Cloud, that's part of the tragedy.

I can't really, truly, honestly, like somebody I've never had a proper interaction with.

 

[Stiggie]

The new Ultimanias have confirmed (like the old Ultimanias) that Aerith likes Cloud, can't believe it's 2024 and I'm still here.

Yeah, but why?

 

[nars305]

The new Ultimanias have confirmed (like the old Ultimanias) that Aerith likes Cloud, can't believe it's 2024 and I'm still here.

I’m not against that, as I figured that myself initially. I guess it’s a matter of what Aerith we are talking about then? It’s obvious she likes Cloud but then there’s an Aerith who questions her feelings for Cloud.

So we have an Aerith that says she still has feelings for Zack and an Aerith who questions her feelings for Cloud.

I find it a little annoying honestly. The game presents [this] and ultimania says [that].

 

[abzy1200]

Aerith liking Cloud and still liking Zack aren't really contradictory, though.

 

[nars305]

I don’t think it’s contradictory. It’s more of what I’m led to interpret if Aerith says she wants to meet the real Cloud but can’t. Then at the end of the game having her questions her feelings.

I feel like the game was steering me more towards understanding her longing for Zack and if I ever was going to think about her feelings for Cloud, I’m reminded of why it doesn’t work?

Edit: I wanted to clarify a bit more. The ultimania point was more me finding it annoying that it’s more complicated than the fact that she likes Cloud because she is shown questioning that.

She can definitely have feelings for both, but I feel like moments in the game are wanting me to see her feelings for Zack as opposed to her wanting to be with Cloud. There’s not really any other way to do that because Cloud does not pursue Aerith, she pursues him. So her romantic moments seem to always include Zack, like “hey remember she has a thing for another guy too”.

 

[imach0c0]

i was wondering whether zack’s romantic feelings for aerith could have manifested in cloud, thus making it possible that romantic interpretations could be true in the first two games, with his romantic feelings resolved in the final one after he pieces everything together. i thought that barret telling him to pick one indicated that there is a possibility that he does come across as though he could like both and that it’s not just down to players’ choices;

In the GS Barret date, when Barret says to Cloud: "tell your feelings to your soulmate before its too late" (paraphrase), on the surface, it can allude to both sides (CA or CT). It can allude to Aerith as she is going to die. It can can also allude to Tifa because prior to the GS, Tifa fell into the LS and she may not have survived. However, with the way Remake trilogy has presented Cloud, he does not seem to be aware of Aerith's feelings towards him. Nor seems to show any romantic feelings towards Aerith. Thus, I think the "soulmate" points to Tifa.

i thought barret surely isn’t interested in the situation but must’ve noticed something from cloud’s end to say that, somewhat of an acknowledgement of the triangle perhaps. when aerith told cloud that his feelings aren’t real, he said ‘don’t i get a say in all this?’ which sounded, to me, like somewhat of a protest to her statement.

I don't get what they were trying to allude to when Cloud reaches out to Aerith's hand when she lets go of his face. I will say that the way the tone of this scene is presented was confusing. We don't ever see Cloud act like that towards Aerith throughout the trilogy. In JP, Cloud says: "That's one-sided." To me, that indicates that Cloud wants the agency to make his own decisions as opposed to others making it for him.

i’ve always wanted to read the japanese translation of the game, but i can’t find it anywhere. and it’s hard to tell whether what i’m reading is translated by someone biased. i definitely want to read the zack scenes at least and get to the bottom of this kyu kyu business (i managed to get the angle scene confirmed in japanese though, which sounded terrible to me in english. i know that, in german, he says that she gets more beautiful with every date, which seems more appropriate lol).

What about the "hyu hyu" do you want clarified? We discussed it a couple of posts earlier. Perhaps that may give you some insight.

and i really cannot believe they have brought him back only to tell him that aerith has feelings for his best friend (if this is what was said in japanese; i would love to hear that it wasn’t).

I think that line did a couple of things:
1. Add angst to the ZA arc
2. Gives Zack character development (despite hearing that, he shows how selfless he is)
3. Create a setup (unresolved issue) for ZA in part 3

 

[zinniawoods109349]

What about the "hyu hyu" do you want clarified?

i wanted it clarifying whether marlene was definitively telling zack that aerith’s feelings for cloud were romantic. then i can understand zack’s perspective better going forward and ignore the further ambiguity that the english translation adds.

 

[Maidenofwar]

@nars305 Something that I wanted to address was that when I see CA in Ultimania, credits, etc, things like that, I do not seek to invalidate your experience of the game, it just reassures me that my experience is also valid, I appreciate yours too

 

[pxl_pushr]

This is why I don't like the debate because Cloud showing any concern for either girl is now "proof of ship." Why wouldn't he show concern?! They're both his friends. He cares about both of them. But guess what? He only wants to kiss one of them, so case closed!!

This. This is key imo

Cloud can and has shown via Remake that he can feel things besides “I’d bang this one” and “not interested” he has a spectrum of feelings, and his complete lack of concern/urgency is not present in Rebirth… because the whole group are now people he considers friends and for a guy with a good heart but few friends in his life, that’s huge.

They aren’t operating on the level of shipping, and I think that’s where some people are getting crossed up. Even if one girl isn’t being pushed as the romantic endgame, they won’t disrespect her to the point that she’s a laughingstock. They will still treat her relationships with dignity and respect ( or at least try their best to ).

 

[nars305]

@nars305 Something that I wanted to address was that when I see CA in Ultimania, credits, etc, things like that, I do not seek to invalidate your experience of the game, it just reassures me that my experience is also valid, I appreciate yours too

Oh yeah I would never want to invalidate someone or seem like I’m “proving someone wrong”. *If I ever came across that way I apologize. I do like to poke fun at the more…interesting…interpretations though ‍.

In any form of media I find other people’s interpretations very interesting and good discussion adds to my love of the story.

I like the ultimanias, and have some of my own now. It’s just my own weird thing of taking the story at face value. I pay most attention to the game and the novels. It’s not that I believe that’s the right thing to do, it’s just how I function I guess lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yo i just heard a new excuse for the Cloti kiss. This time Cloud kissed her couse he wanted her to shut up. Thoughts ?

She wasn't talking, though.
Man, they're reaching for basically anything at this point.

View attachment 16911
Have fun guys .

EDIT: Also in case it's not clear, this is not a list i made for those who might lurk here and don't know my angle on this stuff yet. I just saw it in Twitter and brought it here to spice things up a little.

Oh, I see it's just a kiss on the cheek now. Yeah. It definitely wasn't.

If SE decided to make that a contributing factor, I'd buy it.

Yeah, it fits the evidence we have, anyways.

Indeed we are.

Such jokes!

Then we wonder how high their now gaseous forms might ride on the thermal updraft.

Not too high, I suspect.

I'll call up the guys at Manner Co. They'll live it.

I know that's a typo, but an in universe rival to Mann co calling itself Manner co is something absolutely could see.

I love the continuum of it. Pete quipping casually? You're gonna be webbed upside down outside the local police station. Pete lecturing you about how awful you are with no jokes? You're going to the hospital. Pete dead silent? Hope someone who can hold him back is nearby.

So... Hulk or Thor physically, MJ or May mentally?

Maximum effect, maximum justification.

Feels so good.

It's hard to remember but even now Pete does get a break once in awhile.

He needs them.

Now imagine that being the final words in this thread: No disputes. It gives me a warm feeling to think of it.

Pipe dreams.

Poor Wanda.

A series of bad writers and editorial mandate will do that to you.

Yeah, that

That should be 29 years, not 39, but typos happen. We all know this.

Cyke is funny, adaptations always play into his stoic, tightly wound side to the point of making him unlikable (all the better to shill Logan) and forget how casually quirky and fun he can be. How much beer Logan owes him over billiards, for instance. To see him go for it, as you said, you really gotta go to the comics.

You cannot beat Cyke at Billards. The man sees all the angles.
Like, if someone told me Cykes was secretly a Destiny style pre-cog playing an extreme long game, I'd believe it.

I love BtVS and always will, but it was undeniably at its best when it might be over at any time.

The panic lit a fire under everyone's ass.

I'm missing a reference I think.

Pre-copernican astronomy used epicycles to explain away problems in the geocentric, circular model they assumed was how the stars worksed.

Then the sourcebook needs added emphasis and QFFT everywhere. But I'm not going to Twitter to do it, I cba

Fair enough. Someone else will.

No one is prepared for Grotesqueries. No one.

Except Zero and maybe Caim, and the plan there is the same as it is with everyone else.

Third cousin, twice removed.

But only on alternating weekends.



Also I do think asking why Aerith likes Cloud and to what extent she likes Cloud Cloud as opposed to Zack is an entirely valid question.

 

[Sacky]

I think this is a troll, leave them be lmao.

i can confirm not a troll was in twitch chats spreading the same crap and wrote paragraphs in response with everything from the misinformation website.

 

[Ryushikaze]

"Sephiroth didn't take away Cloud's mother, hometown, sense of self directly. He took Aerith away directly." is a take I had to see today, to explain why "Sephiroth took away Cloud's precious thing" must refer to Aerith and she is thus his beloved because a precious thing could theoretically be your beloved.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is a perfect example of assuming the consequent/ begging the question. This mention of a "precious thing" must be referring to a romantic beloved and thus be Aerith? Why? Because they want anything to mention Aerith as Cloud's beloved.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

She wasn't talking, though.

Yet again we find Tifa communicating without words. It's almost like it's a theme or something.

Man, they're reaching for basically anything at this point.

Tell 'em the self destruct lever is further to the left then, get it over with already.

Oh, I see it's just a kiss on the cheek now. Yeah. It definitely wasn't.

My head spun a little for this. The cheek. Someone honestly said that. Well, not honestly.

Yeah, it fits the evidence we have, anyways.

It could definitely track. So in theory his shitkickery causes Mako poisoning to have a more rapid onset than most, while his relatively weak sense of self makes it more severe?

Such jokes!

They slap me on the knees.

Not too high, I suspect.

You're right, if being made up of hot air was sufficient they'd already be flying high.

I know that's a typo, but an in universe rival to Mann co calling itself Manner co is something absolutely could see.

Can their mercs wear pink? I want their merc teams to wear pink and have oddly polite domination lines.

So... Hulk or Thor physically, MJ or May mentally?

Funny enough, it's often Daredevil. Sin Eater, Kingpin, some generic mooks who went too far, Matt was there to... get wrecked by Spider-Man while Peter's conscience caught up with his fists It hurts less when May or MJ does it.

Feels so good.

Oh yes.

He needs them.

Watch Marvel Editorial put fingers firmly in ears as the fans do cry "it is ok for Peter to be happy damn it!"

Pipe dreams.

Naturally. But nice pipe dreams.

A series of bad writers and editorial mandate will do that to you.

The sad thing is, several of those writers are in fact quite good. Just... not while they were on that specific book.

That should be 29 years, not 39, but typos happen. We all know this.

These are things happen to us all. Typos unite us as a people.

You cannot beat Cyke at Billards. The man sees all the angles.

I love that that's actually part of his mutation. X-Men remains the best at giving out complimentary secondary aspects to big boomy powers.

Like, if someone told me Cykes was secretly a Destiny style pre-cog playing an extreme long game, I'd believe it.

I mean, if someone told me that was his gig all along I'd call bullshit... but with a finessed retcons I'd buy that it's his gig now.

The panic lit a fire under everyone's ass.

I contend that season six was the weakest because they knew seven was already green lit. It's the only season with a cliffhanger for a reason.

Pre-copernican astronomy used epicycles to explain away problems in the geocentric, circular model they assumed was how the stars worksed.

Yeah I was am far too tired to work that out or remember it for myself, so thank you.

Fair enough. Someone else will.

Someone with the power of being arsed. The greatest power.

Except Zero and maybe Caim, and the plan there is the same as it is with everyone else.

Murder. The cause of, and solution to all life's problems.

But only on alternating weekends.

Also I do think asking why Aerith likes Cloud and to what extent she likes Cloud Cloud as opposed to Zack is an entirely valid question.

Seems germane to this thread to me.

"Sephiroth didn't take away Cloud's mother,

Who he openly talks about directly killing in Remake but sure, go on...

hometown, sense of self directly.

Are they actually arguing that burning the entire ground to ashes while cutting down multiple people is indirect? Really?

I'll grant them that Cloud losing his sense of self is on Hojo, but Sephiroth gleefully contributes to Cloud's mental decline so even there no.

He took Aerith away directly." is a take I had to see today, to explain why "Sephiroth took away Cloud's precious thing" must refer to Aerith and she is thus his beloved because a precious thing could theoretically be your beloved.

I know you explained that's not how drawing conclusions works. You're Ryushikaze, the stars shall fall from the heavens before you fail at that. And yet, it still annoys me.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is a perfect example of assuming the consequent/ begging the question. This mention of a "precious thing" must be referring to a romantic beloved and thus be Aerith? Why? Because they want anything to mention Aerith as Cloud's beloved.

Pipe dreams indeed, with this reality.

 

[Yoru]

"Sephiroth didn't take away Cloud's mother, hometown, sense of self directly. He took Aerith away directly." is a take I had to see today, to explain why "Sephiroth took away Cloud's precious thing" must refer to Aerith and she is thus his beloved because a precious thing could theoretically be your beloved.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is a perfect example of assuming the consequent/ begging the question. This mention of a "precious thing" must be referring to a romantic beloved and thus be Aerith? Why? Because they want anything to mention Aerith as Cloud's beloved.

We're talking about people who consider Tifa a background character but have a seizure if Aerith doesn't appear in the LS scene or Under the Highwind.

At some point... you don't have to wonder "what" nonsense they're going to come up with, but rather "when".

 

[Sacky]

"Sephiroth didn't take away Cloud's mother, hometown, sense of self directly. He took Aerith away directly." is a take I had to see today, to explain why "Sephiroth took away Cloud's precious thing" must refer to Aerith and she is thus his beloved because a precious thing could theoretically be your beloved.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is a perfect example of assuming the consequent/ begging the question. This mention of a "precious thing" must be referring to a romantic beloved and thus be Aerith? Why? Because they want anything to mention Aerith as Cloud's beloved.

That person who apparently loves to debate (even religion somehow) sure stopped debating and responding and didn't tell me which Japanese translation tools they used to find beloved in that sentence.

 

[Sacky]

We're talking about people who consider Tifa a background character but have a seizure if Aerith doesn't appear in the LS scene or Under the Highwind.

At some point... you don't have to wonder "what" nonsense they're going to come up with, but rather "when".

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/s/Hxb349tU5c

Idk I would have never expected someone to have this Traces of two pasts take and say Crisis core isn't canon because the writers regret it while also having crisis core all over Rebirth XD

 

[pxl_pushr]

"Sephiroth didn't take away Cloud's mother, hometown, sense of self directly. He took Aerith away directly." is a take I had to see today, to explain why "Sephiroth took away Cloud's precious thing" must refer to Aerith and she is thus his beloved because a precious thing could theoretically be your beloved.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is a perfect example of assuming the consequent/ begging the question. This mention of a "precious thing" must be referring to a romantic beloved and thus be Aerith? Why? Because they want anything to mention Aerith as Cloud's beloved.

Cloud: “Mom, Tifa, my town, give it back!”

Sephiroth: “Oh naw, that wasn’t me directly bruv.”

Cloud: “Oh, excuse me sorry about that. May I speak to your manager please?”

Deleting Cloud’s losses before Aerith isn’t the way.

 

[Yoru]

Cloud: “Mom, Tifa, my town, give it back!”

Sephiroth: “Oh naw, that wasn’t me directly bruv.”

Cloud: “Oh, excuse me sorry about that. May I speak to your manager please?”

Deleting Cloud’s losses before Aerith isn’t the way.

That's what irritates me with CAs narrative. And I think that's why I never liked this pairing (the way they describe it)

Cloud has already faced death. He has already lost loved ones to Sephiroth. He had a life before Aerith. That his whole world should end for a girl he met two weeks ago is beyond me.

We're so much in the fairy tale frame of mind that I personally find it crappy.

 

[ViolaaFox]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/s/Hxb349tU5c

Idk I would have never expected someone to have this Traces of two pasts take and say Crisis core isn't canon because the writers regret it while also having crisis core all over Rebirth XD

"For instance, the relationship between Zack and Aerith ends up shitting on whatever Cloud and Aerith have because it becomes incredibly clear that all Aerith ever saw in Cloud was a substitute for Zack."

I mean that was also hinted in Remake and Rebirth. It's also funny how many people hate CC for shipping reasons.

 

[Yoru]

I mean that was also hinted in Remake and Rebirth. It's also funny how many people hate CC for shipping reasons.

There are roughly two categories of people who hate CC:

• The CAs because this game existing is their ship losing value (CA moments are in fact ZA moments)
• The Genesis deniers because... yeah dude just shut up.

The rest don't give a damn. "The game is okay for a PSP game. The ending is great, by the way" kind of spirit.