One girl is looking for the guy she’s like liked since she was 13 and the other is trying to not see the guy she’s been pining for 5 years for.
A Rubik’s Cube, this is not.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
A Rubik’s Cube, this is not.
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
In all honesty I like the dynamic Cloud and Aerith have because of all the set up in Rebirth. I don’t doubt Aerith had feelings for Cloud at all, but they just aren’t what she felt for Zack. This might be due to the fact that she didn’t really know Cloud and also…Cloud is in love with someone else.
Like as much as I want to see the story of Cloud and Tifa I just as much want to see Aerith and Zack happy together.
omg and now I’m a Zerith.
The reunion is now complete.
I definitely think Aerith softens Cloud up faster than if she were absent. It’s really cool how they’ve subtly made him more attentive towards her, almost like it’s finally gotten through to him that she really is the most physically normal out of the group.
They’re really trying not to under value her friendship with Cloud, a guy who has a very short list of friends, but those friends share a very strong bond with him. Also a nice compliment to Tifa who hints at being lonely in a room full of “friends” and struggles with the same lack of real friends but for different reasons.
Yeah, I've always been interested in exactly what is supposed to be left to interpretation in FFVII as well as remake, to what extent, and what form it takes, and this basically seems like the answer.
Tifa and Cloud love each other and end up together, that's beyond question. Same thing with Zack and Aerith. But the devs seem to think there is not really a reason definitely rule out the idea that Cloud and Aerith had feelings for each other since Aerith dies anyway. So while they strongly hint that Aerith is mostly either misidentifying the feelings she has for Cloud, or projecting her feelings for Zack onto him, or falling for essentially a lie, they won't outright state "we're just just friends" simply so people can keep fantasizing. Same with Cloud, he is portrayed as not being interested in her romantically but at the very least warming up to her, but the game will never outright have him say "sorry, I don't feel about you that way", since it doesn't have to. The characters know where they stand, and Cloud will end up with Tifa, so whatever you want to tell yourself about "what ifs", you can do it.
Very well said.
Honestly, I don't. This might be weird to say since I am considered a Cloti, but I wish rebirth had spend more time setting up Cloud and Aeriths bond. Mostly I just ship 2 things, 1: A good story, and 2: People accepting the story for what it is.
And imo, the story would have been better if part 2 had spend more time showing Aerith and Cloud growing close. Right now, in my opinion, their bond was portrayed HORRIBLY. One of the reasons it feels so obvious that Aerith is misidentifying her feelings for Cloud and is still somehow coping with Zack is because that's the only thing that would explain why she'd feel anything for Cloud, a random dude who she barely interacted with, and has been consistently awful to her, and acting like a psychopath in general.
If we look at what happens in between Gongaga and Aeriths death, the idea that she might have developed feelings for Cloud is just....insane. And imo, regardless of shipping preferences, that shouldn't be.
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I like to think that without Cloud knowing it, he had an extension of the friendship he cherished with Zack through Aerith. Aerith and Zack are very cute and animated. They are like sunshine to the more gloomy characters. They both equally were robbed of time and another relationship.
I just always have a sadness when I think of Aerith and Zack. They both died in a horrible way and certain moments in the game made my heart sink when it came to them. So I just want them to find that happiness in their death.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Aerith, in searching for the real Cloud, also proves to herself that she can still fall in love with someone. To put an end to this “curse” that has been weighing her down and preventing her from moving on for the past 5 years.
One of the first things she tells Cloud is that she's fine in Midgar after all. That she doesn't want to leave. She is still waiting.
I don't think we'll ever really know the meaning of her feelings for Cloud. At least, not in this updated version of FF7.
I think that's one of the few things they'll leave open to interpretation. Because they don't have to tell it. She's dead and can find her lost love. Cloud is already in love with someone, and it's mutual. There's no need to shatter some people's “dream”. They can imagine whatever they want, it won't change the finality of the story.
One of the first things she tells Cloud is that she's fine in Midgar after all. That she doesn't want to leave. She is still waiting.
I don't think we'll ever really know the meaning of her feelings for Cloud. At least, not in this updated version of FF7.
I think that's one of the few things they'll leave open to interpretation. Because they don't have to tell it. She's dead and can find her lost love. Cloud is already in love with someone, and it's mutual. There's no need to shatter some people's “dream”. They can imagine whatever they want, it won't change the finality of the story.
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
For me, she seemed to had answer that in her GS date. She tells Cloud she is trying to find him. There is a barrier that doesn’t allow them to truly get close. Still, after that confession, they are able to get a bit closer.
I also liked the interpretation with them in Nibelheim. How an answer of Cloud agreeing he wanted Tifa to wave to him is the best answer because Aerith takes it as him opening up finally.
They are just robbed of their friendship though, and more so that time that they needed.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
7 years, even.
MissMDusk
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Mari
I thought the "Because we're friends" line Cloud says in the LA version of the dream date kind of said where they stood, which is why Aerith says something like "Now I know where we stand."
But now that I've seen the scene again, it reminds me of what Cloud's mo-cap actor said about how Cloud shows himself becoming more vulnerable and displaying his true feelings. When he's fully facing someone (like Tifa in Gongaga) and answering her honestly, I think this is what his mo-cap actor meant by him showing his true self.
Open to everyone else's thoughts, and I am just rambling, but I wonder if the LA version of the dream date is him being closed off/not fully honest with himself, whilst the HA is him being fully honest/showing his true feelings to Aerith.
Whether it is just a nicer, roundabout way of him still saying they're just friends, or may indicate something more, I don't know. And I know in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it has been on my mind for a bit.
If you can't tell I can't stop thinking about that dream date it's so weird to me I'm sorry
But now that I've seen the scene again, it reminds me of what Cloud's mo-cap actor said about how Cloud shows himself becoming more vulnerable and displaying his true feelings. When he's fully facing someone (like Tifa in Gongaga) and answering her honestly, I think this is what his mo-cap actor meant by him showing his true self.
Open to everyone else's thoughts, and I am just rambling, but I wonder if the LA version of the dream date is him being closed off/not fully honest with himself, whilst the HA is him being fully honest/showing his true feelings to Aerith.
Whether it is just a nicer, roundabout way of him still saying they're just friends, or may indicate something more, I don't know. And I know in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it has been on my mind for a bit.
If you can't tell I can't stop thinking about that dream date it's so weird to me I'm sorry
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I’ve said my interpretation of the dream date a little while ago but I didn’t see it as romantic personally.I thought the "Because we're friends" line Cloud says in the LA version of the dream date kind of said where they stood, which is why Aerith says something like "Now I know where we stand."
But now that I've seen the scene again, it reminds me of what Cloud's mo-cap actor said about how Cloud shows himself becoming more vulnerable and displaying his true feelings. When he's fully facing someone (like Tifa in Gongaga) and answering her honestly, I think this is what his mo-cap actor meant by him showing his true self.
Open to everyone else's thoughts, and I am just rambling, but I wonder if the LA version of the dream date is him being closed off/not fully honest with himself, whilst the HA is him being fully honest/showing his true feelings to Aerith.
Whether it is just a nicer, roundabout way of him still saying they're just friends, or may indicate something more, I don't know. And I know in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it has been on my mind for a bit.
If you can't tell I can't stop thinking about that dream date it's so weird to me I'm sorry
I saw it as Aerith being happy that Cloud would want to hang out with her again. He is usually reluctant, but this time he was not.
She can say goodbye to him knowing they were actually friends instead of only being in each others life because they had common enemies.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
And yet Cloud says it they are nakamas, so they are friends. No matter how you turn it, the church scene is her realisation that they aren't on the same level or that her feelings aren't as strong as she thought they would be. The HA version is a nicer way to say it, IMHO, since if I look at the HW scene, both version are romantic-coded, one is just bolder than the other. So to me both versions of the church scene show friendship from Cloud.
I tend to think that the fact that they both miss Zack is how they connect at first in Remake, and maybe Zack and Aerith will reconnect at first through Cloud.
No, 5 since @pxl_pushr is talking about Aerith pining for Zack.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Pretty much my POV too.
I assume that if you want to say something, you say it. You don't have to beat around the bush. Especially when it's your last chance. So as soon as she started talking in charades, it was all over for me. The CA love arc ended at that point.
MissMDusk
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Mari
I initially thought it could be either platonic (LA) or romantic? (HA), but that it didn't matter in the end as she dies.
I really like your interpretation of the HA, because even if Aerith has feelings on her side, the friendship they built in this game shouldn't be overlooked, and Cloud had come to really treasure her time as one would with a close - even best - friend. It feels much more sweet, more heartwarming and makes the tragedy of her end much more sad imo.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
In japanese she says : "I'm happy at least to hear your feelings"
Because she's responding at Cloud saying "We can make more memories next time"
She's just happy to hear him say he's willing to spend time with her on his own.
overheat28
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Overheat
I find it funny how dream date Aerith "primes" Cloud's Soldier persona just before commencing the date. In English she says "up and at ' em, Soldier!" to get him out of the chair. For all that CAs go on about her seeing the real Cloud before anyone else, this seems contradictory to me.
This is supposedly an Aerith who is already dead and has more knowledge but she's still hung up on Soldier!Cloud? Like, so when did she see through him? All I see here is further support to the idea that she will automatically reinforce his false persona. Since this is her dream, how am I supposed to read this any other way than the fake persona is what she's wanted all along, i.e. "Play along". And even then the date goes all sorts of wrong.
Just a small detail that stood out to me on repeat playthrough.
This is supposedly an Aerith who is already dead and has more knowledge but she's still hung up on Soldier!Cloud? Like, so when did she see through him? All I see here is further support to the idea that she will automatically reinforce his false persona. Since this is her dream, how am I supposed to read this any other way than the fake persona is what she's wanted all along, i.e. "Play along". And even then the date goes all sorts of wrong.
Just a small detail that stood out to me on repeat playthrough.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
You know, I wonder if she knows the future as well as we think. Maybe we give a little too much credit to the abilities of a deceased person. I don't think all she has to do is fire up Netflix in the LS to see the story like you'd play a video game.
I think that would be too easy and create too many inconsistencies. Whether it's her lack of consideration for Zack. Whether it's “stealing” one of the great moments in Tifa's story. Aerith knowing everything is a problem, I think.
Personally, I prefer the way it's represented in OG. We know she's “out there” somewhere, we can feel her. But at the same time it's very vague. Maybe she's not really here.
This sort of Jedi ghost who can interact with the living world as if nothing had happened and with all possible knowledge... I don't find that very interesting...
I really hope they find a good explanation, that we were wrong with Omni-Aerith.
I think that would be too easy and create too many inconsistencies. Whether it's her lack of consideration for Zack. Whether it's “stealing” one of the great moments in Tifa's story. Aerith knowing everything is a problem, I think.
Personally, I prefer the way it's represented in OG. We know she's “out there” somewhere, we can feel her. But at the same time it's very vague. Maybe she's not really here.
This sort of Jedi ghost who can interact with the living world as if nothing had happened and with all possible knowledge... I don't find that very interesting...
I really hope they find a good explanation, that we were wrong with Omni-Aerith.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I personally never took it as "oh she knows everything". In the OG, Sephiroth mentions that he scoured the Lifestream to find every bit of knowledge, but I don't think that's how Aerith does it; if we look at how she acts at the Temple, she lets the Cetra knowledge guide her. So I think it's likely that something similar happens once she dies, that she does gain some sort of knowledge, but we're not talking about all memories ever. I don't think she would like to pry on her friends' memories for example.
I do find it interesting that she seems surprised by Cloud expressing a willingness to hang out with her again and the surprise she expresses back in her resolution in Remake when Cloud is determined to go rescue her. Her memories are likely locked to her own recollection of things, and she isn’t any more knowledgeable about other people’s memories.
Also feeds into my suspicion that her fiddling with stuff in Remake basically just simulates the optional stuff in OG. Different paths diverge but then they come back together at key points. Similar to no matter how you treat Aerith or Tifa, Aerith still dies, Tifa still helps Cloud reform himself, and Cloud still loves Tifa.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
In fact, I don't think she's fiddling in the Remake. I think all these “hints” of an all-knowing Aerith is really just a staging of something in OG that isn't emphasized too much in Remake. Aerith hears the planet. That's what she does in the game's intro. Whether it's her willingness to go and save Tifa. Her knowledge of Sector 7 and Marlene. I think it's the same principle as the Force and the Jedi. It's just an “intuition” given to her by the planet.
And for some reason (maybe the planet gets scared when it understands that Sephiroth is in the LS), it chooses to give her all the information she needs. To the point where Aerith doesn't know which way to turn. Literally lost in the flood of information (her dialogue in her room in the Shinra tower).
Why did the planet choose to stop talking to her in Rebirth? I don't know.
But I think Aerith's agenda is far less premeditated than we think. And I think there's only one Aerith.
The other two (Resolution in Remake and Sector 5 date in Rebirth) are visions while Cloud is “dreaming”. A sort of strange mix from the LS. She's not a real person. Just a vision from Cloud's thoughts and the magic of the LS.
The real moment when she takes the reigns is after her visit to the temple. A moment that lasted several hours, according to the game. The moment when she herself enters into communication with the planet, asking how to get in and what to do.
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I mean, that would answer most of my issues with an overpowered Aerith lol basically boils down to the planet doing more of the heavy lifting than people think.
Since the souls of people are made up of lifestream wouldn't a construct made by the life stream in essence be the same as the actual person? That definitely seems to be a running theme in this story.
imach0c0
Pro Adventurer
The way the trilogy has been treating Aerith's "feelings" for Cloud, it seems it might be less interpretative going into part 3.
In REMAKE, although vague, a seed is planted on the idea of the "illusion" of love. In Aerith's Chapter 14 resolution, she says to Cloud, but mostly to herself (remake ultimania): "Whatever happens, don't fall in love with me. Even if you think you have its in your imagination." (JP rough translation)
In REBIRTH, this concept of this "illusion or "imagination" or what Aerith is having "feelings" for is explored and we get further context (though one can argue it still has interpretative elements). In the Aerith GS date, Aerith says she initially saw Zack in Cloud. After the dream date, Aerith questions what kind of "suki" (like) she has for him.
However, I think what will make it less interpretative is Zack's role as part of his arc is his relationship with Aerith. Zack is aware that Aerith has "feelings" for Cloud from Marlene. Zack also references it to Cloud when he sees him in the white space: "I'm kinda jealous of you/You've been naughty" (JP rough translation) From a storytelling POV, its an interesting choice to have Zack be given this information and kinda be bothered by it. This indicates that a conflict has been setup for him.
On the premise there is a ZA reunion (romantic), I am inclined to think that all of this has been set up to be resolved in the next game. Seeing how Aerith's "feelings" for Cloud is kinda the elephant in the room regarding the ZA relationship status, I don't think Aerith confessing her love to Zack is enough to resolve it as Zack is aware of the Cloud "feelings" and he needs to know where he stands. And I don't think its in Zack's character to pursue Aerith if she had unresolved feelings.
Even though there has not been direct confirmation of what Aerith's "feelings" for Cloud entails, the information presented in REMAKE and REBIRTH seems to be providing more clarity in regards to it. If Part 3 follows suit, I think we'll get an answer. As I don't see how her vague "feelings" for Cloud support the narrative of the ZA relationship.
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