SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[abzy1200]

Cloud's mocap actor's thoughts on Nibelheim here

Thoughts anyone? Nothing crazy, if you ask me.

 

[ViolaaFox]

I watched Welonz reactions to all the dates. The gist of her thoughts was that she felt that the games were non-optionally leaning towards CT but if the player dates Aerith and you get the end where Cloud doesn't "explicitly turn her down" (right before her death, lol, like I honestly can't imagine the devs treating Aerith that way), then Cloud comes off as a "two-timing asshole".

And you know, I have seen and read my share of harems but I honestly can't imagine that's the image the devs wanted to give of Cloud, especially with the "he's loyal" they had in an ad or something while he's on the water tower with Tifa. And again, this reading of CA as mutually and strictly romantic ignores the Zack factor. Like, he's actually in the game. He's not just something in the past. He might still be dead or whatever he is but he's still very much present, fighting to reunite with Aerith.

So, I don't know. I just wanted to write share my thoughts even if they don't make much sense, lol.

It get's even funnier when you consider that many Clerith's treated Aerith as 1st choice and Tifa as "leftover" and therefore 2nd choice. And now some of them are begging the Devs to turn Aerith into the 2nd choice. And yes, I don't like how many people of Aerith's own fandom treat her because she deserves better than being someones 2nd choice.

It's simple then : Don't date Aerith

Because in reality, the real problem is that they kept the Aerith date option to please the OG players, but it no longer works in Remake/Rebirth because Tifa is introduced as a romance much earlier on. Proof that Aerith is above all a red herring in OG.

It used to work in OG because Tifa was gamedesigned as a plot twist. But now that they've chosen to put her relationship with Cloud more to the front and focus instead on an build-up... well, Aerith doesn't work anymore.

It works if you only like her character because you don't care about the rest anyway, but for those who look at the game as a whole and see how much Tifa is put forward in terms of romance... the relationship with Aerith seems forced.

I like how they handle Tifa and Cloud's connection in Rebirth as I prefer the relationship building over the plot twist. It makes the whole thing easier to understand and, above all, more believable. It's also cute how they look out for each other, I really enjoy seeing these Cloud and Tifa moments. More as in OG.

 

[pxl_pushr]

It get's even funnier when you consider that many Clerith's treated Aerith as 1st choice and Tifa as "leftover" and therefore 2nd choice. And now some of them are begging the Devs to turn Aerith into the 2nd choice. And yes, I don't like how many people of Aerith's own fandom treat her because she deserves better than being someones 2nd choice.


I like how they handle Tifa and Cloud's connection in Rebirth as I prefer the relationship building over the plot twist. It makes the whole thing easier to understand and, above all, more believable. It's also cute how they look out for each other, I really enjoy seeing these Cloud and Tifa moments. More as in OG.

People go gaga over Gongaga and understandably so, but Nibelheim has crept up to being my favorite. The mutual support they show going through the reactor is the type of thing that makes me love them together.

Tifa forged herself to be strong enough to save those she loves ( and Cloud has a tendency to test gravity and fall damage ) and Cloud’s tenderness is there to support her when she’s internally struggling.

Also

“Aerith deserves a happy ending!”

SE: “Agreed, here’s the guy that unflinchingly shows absolute devotion to her, Zack”

“No, not hiiim!”

 

[ViolaaFox]

People go gaga over Gongaga and understandably so, but Nibelheim has crept up to being my favorite. The mutual support they show going through the reactor is the type of thing that makes me love them together.

Tifa forged herself to be strong enough to save those she loves ( and Cloud has a tendency to test gravity and fall damage ) and Cloud’s tenderness is there to support her when she’s internally struggling.

Also

“Aerith deserves a happy ending!”

SE: “Agreed, here’s the guy that unflinchingly shows absolute devotion to her, Zack”

“No, not hiiim!”

What I also love is that they show us how Tifa is caring for Yuffie while Cloud tries to comfort Barret. SE shows us more than just the bond between Cloud and Tifa. So we get to see the strong connection between them but also how much they look out for their friends.

Omggg, I will never understand the Zerith hate.

 

[Yoru]

What I also love is that they show us how Tifa is caring for Yuffie while Cloud tries to comfort Barret. SE shows us more than just the bond between Cloud and Tifa. So we get to see the strong connection between them but also how much they look out for their friends.

It's something that bothers me about Aerith, by the way. I think the game just forgot that she was there for 3/4 of the adventure. She has very little interaction with the rest of the team. Except for Nanaki.

I thought she'd be the center of attention, the star of the team that everyone adores... and in the end Yuffie spends more time bonding with Barret and Tifa.

 

[ViolaaFox]

It's something that bothers me about Aerith, by the way. I think the game just forgot that she was there for 3/4 of the adventure. She has very little interaction with the rest of the team. Except for Nanaki.

Fully agree on that. To me it feels like they wrote her way better in the Remake. In Rebirth however some actions of her felt random or kinda rushed...but it was interesting that they at least portray the struggle she has with being the last Cetra. It is even mentioned in the game that she knows almost nothing about their culture.

 

[pxl_pushr]

What I also love is that they show us how Tifa is caring for Yuffie while Cloud tries to comfort Barret. SE shows us more than just the bond between Cloud and Tifa. So we get to see the strong connection between them but also how much they look out for their friends.

Omggg, I will never understand the Zerith hate.

I’m hoping the stuff with Yuffie is going to get a strong payoff in part 3 in the Wutai segment. They did do a great job massaging her into the group, way better than I thought they would.

I think Aerith is just particularly challenging because her ultimate fate eats up so much gravitas. Out of the whole group, she has the loftiest fate, so whatever character building time outside of that gets eaten up by building to her embracing her role as a Cetra. I honestly can’t think of any comfortable way to build her relationships across the board without Cloud himself stepping back.

The affinity system should’ve been bumped and sidequests opened up to be between any mix of characters more appropriate for the quest.

 

[ViolaaFox]

I’m hoping the stuff with Yuffie is going to get a strong payoff in part 3 in the Wutai segment. They did do a great job massaging her into the group, way better than I thought they would.

I think Aerith is just particularly challenging because her ultimate fate eats up so much gravitas. Out of the whole group, she has the loftiest fate, so whatever character building time outside of that gets eaten up by building to her embracing her role as a Cetra. I honestly can’t think of any comfortable way to build her relationships across the board without Cloud himself stepping back.

The affinity system should’ve been bumped and sidequests opened up to be between any mix of characters more appropriate for the quest.

Yeah, the part with Yuffie could become very interesting.

That's a good point and it makes sense. It's still a shame that it wasn't possible to include more scenes of Aerith forming friendships with other group members. But hey, we got "Traces of two pasts" where she at least gets to talk a bit with Tifa.

I wonder if part 3 will include an affinity system as I don't think that they'll make the Highwind scene optional.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Yeah, the part with Yuffie could become very interesting.

That's a good point and it makes sense. It's still a shame that it wasn't possible to include more scenes of Aerith forming friendships with other group members. But hey, we got "Traces of two pasts" where she at least gets to talk a bit with Tifa.

I wonder if part 3 will include an affinity system as I don't think that they'll make the Highwind scene optional.

Well, I think they only included it in Rebirth because of the original, but the section part 3 covers doesn’t have that mechanic, so hopefully they just don’t bother and do character quest chains instead for the ultimate weapons and final limits. Or, better yet, weave the rich character moments into the plot so we can limit side stuff as economically as possible.

 

[ViolaaFox]

Well, I think they only included it in Rebirth because of the original, but the section part 3 covers doesn’t have that mechanic, so hopefully they just don’t bother and do character quest chains instead for the ultimate weapons and final limits. Or, better yet, weave the rich character moments into the plot so we can limit side stuff as economically as possible.

Character quest chains would be awesome but I don't think that SE will do something like this. Which is unfortune because I always loved playing through stuff like that. It's also a great opportunity to learn more about the characters without packing everything into the main story.

 

[Ryeleigh]

About Aerith's GS date, I know people have already dissected it in the thread, lol, but I thought I'd add my two cents on it. Or at least the part where Aerith stumbles and Cloud goes on to catch her and they end up in kissing distance like in any rom-com harem. What I thought was interesting is how they both get so stiff and awkward and immediately let each other go. It kind of felt as if neither of them ever thought about kissing the other at least but... Well, what do I know. I hope Part 3 will be clear about CT and ZA and even CA.

 

[ViolaaFox]

About Aerith's GS date, I know people have already dissected it in the thread, lol, but I thought I'd add my two cents on it. Or at least the part where Aerith stumbles and Cloud goes on to catch her and they end up in kissing distance like in any rom-com harem. What I thought was interesting is how they both get so stiff and awkward and immediately let each other go. It kind of felt as if neither of them ever thought about kissing the other at least but... Well, what do I know. I hope Part 3 will be clear about CT and ZA and even CA.

That scene also surprised me when I first saw it because I thought that at least Aerith would be into it. But it's exactly as you say both of them let go. I mean Aerith seems conflicted about her feelings in general..she is more specific that she is not aware of her exact feelings for Cloud but maybe Zack also plays a part in this.

 

[pxl_pushr]

About Aerith's GS date, I know people have already dissected it in the thread, lol, but I thought I'd add my two cents on it. Or at least the part where Aerith stumbles and Cloud goes on to catch her and they end up in kissing distance like in any rom-com harem. What I thought was interesting is how they both get so stiff and awkward and immediately let each other go. It kind of felt as if neither of them ever thought about kissing the other at least but... Well, what do I know. I hope Part 3 will be clear about CT and ZA and even CA.

That’s the main sign, at least in my eyes, that even if there’s something romantic between them, it’s too mixed up in other things.

That’s like the third time someone has stumbled into kissing distance of Cloud? His reactions are different every time, but only one character has a unique reaction.

 

[Yoru]

About Aerith's GS date, I know people have already dissected it in the thread, lol, but I thought I'd add my two cents on it. Or at least the part where Aerith stumbles and Cloud goes on to catch her and they end up in kissing distance like in any rom-com harem. What I thought was interesting is how they both get so stiff and awkward and immediately let each other go. It kind of felt as if neither of them ever thought about kissing the other at least but... Well, what do I know. I hope Part 3 will be clear about CT and ZA and even CA.

People can interpret this scene as they like. No problem.

The thing is, it's not a scene in a vacuum. We happen to have an element of comparison. And we can compare Cloud's reaction with two different women in the same situation. And it's night and day.

In a game in which the developers never cease to point out that a great deal of effort has been put into Cloud's animations - his eyes, his hands, his shoulders - I still find it blatantly obvious that he's strangely neutral in only one of the date.

And the shyness excuse doesn't hold water, because the developers have said they're using animations to emphasize it. All to show that his shyness is getting the better of his desire to look cool.

 

[ViolaaFox]

People can interpret this scene as they like. No problem.

The thing is, it's not a scene in a vacuum. We happen to have an element of comparison. And we can compare Cloud's reaction with two different women in the same situation. And it's night and day.

In a game in which the developers never cease to point out that a great deal of effort has been put into Cloud's animations - his eyes, his hands, his shoulders - I still find it blatantly obvious that he's strangely neutral in only one of the date.

And the shyness excuse doesn't hold water, because the developers have said they're using animations to emphasize it. All to show that his shyness is getting the better of his desire to look cool.

Exactly. The devs had the opportunity to give Aerith a kiss scene during her GS date but in the end decided to make this scene exclusive to one character. When the leak with the HA Tifa date appeared, I actually assumed that Aerith would also get a scene like that (which turned out to be wrong). And that is actually enough for me to say that there was no real triangle in that sense for the remake series.

 

[Yoru]

Exactly. The devs had the opportunity to give Aerith a kiss scene during her GS date but in the end decided to make this scene exclusive to one character. When the leak with the HA Tifa date appeared, I actually assumed that Aerith would also get a scene like that (which turned out to be wrong). And that is actually enough for me to say that there was no real triangle in that sense for the remake series.

We don't even have to go this far.

Just the LA versions are enough :

• Aerith : She grabs his arm (like always) and use his shoulder. Cloud is surprised and she tells him "just till the ride is over". He does nothing more. He just stays still.
• Tifa : Cloud is the one who makes the first move. He reaches out and pulls her back into his arms.

So we have a scene where he's willing to go with the flow VS a scene where he's the one to provoke it. Rather telling about his feelings imo.

 

[imach0c0]

People can interpret this scene as they like. No problem.

The thing is, it's not a scene in a vacuum. We happen to have an element of comparison. And we can compare Cloud's reaction with two different women in the same situation. And it's night and day.

In a game in which the developers never cease to point out that a great deal of effort has been put into Cloud's animations - his eyes, his hands, his shoulders - I still find it blatantly obvious that he's strangely neutral in only one of the date.

And the shyness excuse doesn't hold water, because the developers have said they're using animations to emphasize it. All to show that his shyness is getting the better of his desire to look cool.

Regarding the "shyness" arguments --

I read Cloud's character as someone pure and almost innocent in a way. Though he tries to act "cool," its just on the surface - a coping mechanism. Therefore, I think the shyness comes from a place of being uncomfortable and not knowing what to do. Not because he has "romantic feelings" and does not know how to act on them. Its important to note that when Cloud is uncomfortable, he has shown to put up a "cool" front, however he sometimes ends up being awkward in the process.

From a storytelling POV and in respect to Cloud's character, it does not make sense for Cloud to initiate something "romantic" with Aerith in that moment. Even if an opportunity presented itself. Cloud is in an awkward position because just prior to the GS date, Cloud "remembers" Zack "dying" and being in love with Aerith. He also is aware that Aerith maybe still has feelings for Zack. Seeing how Cloud brings the Zack topic up in both the Tifa and Aerith GS date, indicates to me that he is genuinely concerned about Aerith.

For Cloud to initiate something "romantic" with Aerith seems out of place because:
a) It would make Cloud come off as a 2 timer. Especially with the "almost" Tifa kiss in the main story (I don't think that is how Cloud's character is supposed to be portrayed)
b) It seems OOC for Cloud as he has not shown any romantic interest towards Aerith NOR seems to be aware of her feelings towards him

 

[imach0c0]

The thing is, it's not a scene in a vacuum. We happen to have an element of comparison. And we can compare Cloud's reaction with two different women in the same situation. And it's night and day.

In a game in which the developers never cease to point out that a great deal of effort has been put into Cloud's animations - his eyes, his hands, his shoulders - I still find it blatantly obvious that he's strangely neutral in only one of the date.

And the shyness excuse doesn't hold water, because the developers have said they're using animations to emphasize it. All to show that his shyness is getting the better of his desire to look cool.

I would argue Yuffie's date also offers insight into Tifa and Cloud's relationship, especially in regards to how Cloud cares about what Tifa thinks of him. When Yuffie says Tifa probably forgot about him, Cloud seems to look bothered or disappointed by it. The concerned expression Cloud makes (in how his eyebrows are animated) seems only unique to Tifa.

 

[Yoru]

NOR seems to be aware of her feelings towards him

Oh I think he knows very well how she feels and that's precisely why he does what he can to put up boundaries.

Whether it's the way he always refuses to sit down close to her, or the fact that he gets irritated when she talks about dates when he chooses to help people in Costa.

He chooses to play along with the GS date because he thinks he knows about Zack and wants to be there to comfort her. But that's about it.

And I think that's why none of the dialogue choices for Aerith include a "flirt" option. While Tifa does have some.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Oh I think he knows very well how she feels and that's precisely why he does what he can to put up boundaries.

Whether it's the way he always refuses to sit down close to her, or the fact that he gets irritated when she talks about dates when he chooses to help people in Costa.

He chooses to play along with the GS date because he thinks he knows about Zack and wants to be there to comfort her. But that's about it.

And I think that's why none of the dialogue choices for Aerith include a flirt option. While Tifa does have some.

Cloud’s been hit on so much since he showed up in Midgar, I find it hard to believe he has no idea about Aerith to some degree, but his concern for her stress about Zack and guilt over forgetting him/insulting his friend is overriding it.

But there’s also her change in personality from Remake to Rebirth that also may be throwing him off. It’s almost like Gongaga clicks a lightbulb in his head and he’s like “ahh this whole Zack business might be messing with her, best say he’s a loser so she doesn’t worry about him” then he pisses both girls off.

He remembers, and he’s regretful and doubly concerned because he knows Zack’s fate: likely dead, and Cloud doesn’t like giving out bad news.

I dunno, it just feels like the thread of plot points is so clear, with general bonding in between that feeds into those plot points.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I have to say I felt really sorry for Zack when Cloud asked during their date if Tifa talked to Aerith and Aerith responded with "Probably not. Not about anything important at least. I wanna be with you now" (paraphrased). She was most likely hiding and downplaying her feelings (for Zack at least) but I really hope that ZA reunion and CT in Part 3 will be epic just to clear all the misconceptions. I mean, Zack deserves the world too, you know?

 

[Yoru]

I have to say I felt really sorry for Zack when Cloud asked during their date if Tifa talked to Aerith and Aerith responded with "Probably not. Not about anything important at least. I wanna be with you now" (paraphrased). She was most likely hiding and downplaying her feelings (for Zack at least) but I really hope that ZA reunion and CT in Part 3 will be epic just to clear all the misconceptions. I mean, Zack deserves the world too, you know?

To be fair, that's not really what she's saying. She's more apologizing to Cloud for approaching him for the wrong reasons than brushing off her feelings for Zack.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I have to say I felt really sorry for Zack when Cloud asked during their date if Tifa talked to Aerith and Aerith responded with "Probably not. Not about anything important at least. I wanna be with you now" (paraphrased). She was most likely hiding and downplaying her feelings (for Zack at least) but I really hope that ZA reunion and CT in Part 3 will be epic just to clear all the misconceptions. I mean, Zack deserves the world too, you know?

Tbf to Aerith, I don’t think any version of her we see in game is aware of Zack’s fate, what he’s going through, or why.

I’m also not sure if she means that purely as a romantic declaration. I think her method of “looking for the real Cloud” is to say something or put him in situations where she knows what Zack would say/do and comparing Cloud to that.

She comes to realize that’s not fair to Cloud and going forward wants to find the real him through more genuine means, similar to Nibelheim for example. That’s all my read of it anyway. I don’t think it was meant to be a swipe at Zack

 

[Ryeleigh]

Tbf to Aerith, I don’t think any version of her we see in game is aware of Zack’s fate, what he’s going through, or why.

It didn't mean I still didn't feel sorry for Zack, lol. I guess it's fine. I'll just wait for the ZA reunion in Part 3. Even if there's a slim chance that it doesn't end favourably, I think it's still inevitable that they will have one.

 

[pxl_pushr]

It didn't mean I still didn't feel sorry for Zack, lol. I guess it's fine. I'll just wait for the ZA reunion in Part 3. Even if there's a slim chance that it doesn't end favourably, I think it's still inevitable that they will have one.

For sure. Though now I’m of the mind that it’ll either be at the very beginning or at the very end. Something tells me it’ll either be a high point immediately followed by a kick to the shin, or something we’ll need to fight for all throughout.