SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

Oh, the hypothesis accounted for exactly zero variables and stood up to no rigorous examination. It's why the guy was so against the older sources. They told him he was wrong flat out.

Speaking of Jenova and Cloud's memories, the guy who was insisting Jenova didn't copy Zack's memories and twist them to make SOLDIER Cloud and his memories is still fighting against that fact, despite the multiple times in the UO alone it says Zack's memories influenced Cloud.

ReTrilogy may be a reimagining but they aren’t gonna change something that basic. It’s like saying Tifa being 20 is non-canon because it’s an old Ultimania fact.

Moreover, wasn’t there an interview that stated they wanted to add Compilation stuff into ReTrilogy to make everything feel more cohesive?

 

[Shadowstorm]

ReTrilogy may be a reimagining but they aren’t gonna change something that basic. It’s like saying Tifa being 20 is non-canon because it’s an old Ultimania fact.

Moreover, wasn’t there an interview that stated they wanted to add Compilation stuff into ReTrilogy to make everything feel more cohesive?

Well we can't have that! If the ages are non-canon then how will we hold up Aerith being older than Cloud as proof that she's the "older woman" Claudia was talking about and therefore Cloud's soulmate?

 

[GamerSkull]

Well we can't have that! If the ages are non-canon then how will we hold up Aerith being older than Cloud as proof that she's the "older woman" Claudia was talking about and therefore Cloud's soulmate?

I don’t understand why people are so selective in this fandom. It’s maddening. LOL

 

[Sacky]

You forgot about the "Head's I win tails you lose" as well.

Dumb take I encountered today that I cannot screenshot for you all because the guy who said it blocked me in a fit of "I'm not mad!" rage, none of the older Ultimanias are canon because remake project is "in its own world." This was from someone trying to argue that the whispers, not Jenova, were responsible for Cloud's memory issues.
He also said Crisis Core wasn't canon despite, you know, being referenced in Rebirth.

I would say don't use the old ultimanias as 100 percent fact if something has been retconned or isn't adding up like the Whole of Zack's character. However I saw the context this person was saying on his reddit theories xd and the interview hes chosen wasn't words said by the actual developer like they claim. Its just a summary of a translated youtube interview by the website author that they are thinking was Hamaguchi but it wasn't since they don't understand quotes it seems? Heres what devs actually said.

 

[Maidenofwar]

So Tifa and Cloud are the ones with new outfits and weapons for this new EC campaign. By Clerith shipper rules that totally means they're endgame, right?

You mean the FFIX rerun? CAs happy with that one because Cloud is Zidane and Aerith is Garnet

 

[Shadowstorm]

You mean the FFIX rerun? CAs happy with that one because Cloud is Zidane and Aerith is Garnet

I don't actually know who these people are I was just talking about Cloud and Tifa being the characters advertised to me when I opened the app lol.

Anyway, I'm not against CA's having nice things I was specifically making fun of the phenomenon of using little details in the gacha game as evidence of what the main ship is, especially with stuff like this where I imagine the choices are based on which characters have the same gear/fighting style.

I've said before I honestly think they'll keep putting Clerith crumbs in there well after the ships are locked in in part 3 because that's just smart business.

 

[Eerie]

They seriously need to up the CT in events though because we don't have any matching couple stuff. I'm really eye-siding them - the stories are cute, but the lack of matching gear, ehhhh.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They seriously need to up the CT in events though because we don't have any matching couple stuff. I'm really eye-siding them - the stories are cute, but the lack of matching gear, ehhhh.

They've been doing it for ZA, it seems.

As for the FF9 costumes, while Zidane makes some sense for Cloud (Connection to villain, past involves experimentation) the character he's most like is Steiner, I'd say, though you could make an argument for Barrett being that as well due to his overprotective nature. Tifa as a person isn't much of anything like Amarant, so the reasoning there is just that he's the martial arts character. Honestly, vibes wise Amarant's probably the most like Vincent, but this is the problem with trying to just swap characters around like the series never does anything new. It does!
Like, no one in FF7 really would 'fit' as Vivi narratively.
That said, I always approve of inter- and intra-franchise cosplay arts.

Also Tifa would make for an excellent Beatrix to go with Cloud's Steiner, for the record.

I would say don't use the old ultimanias as 100 percent fact if something has been retconned or isn't adding up like the Whole of Zack's character. However I saw the context this person was saying on his reddit theories xd and the interview hes chosen wasn't words said by the actual developer like they claim. Its just a summary of a translated youtube interview by the website author that they are thinking was Hamaguchi but it wasn't since they don't understand quotes it seems? Heres what devs actually said.
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Yeah, It was clearly latching onto the way the English speaking person in the video phrased the question and then ignoring everything else he and all the other devs said about the game.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I can see EC holding back on matching outfits for Cloud and Tifa until we hit Disc 2 content ( if it lives that long. No idea how EC is doing financially ). Same for SE’s marketing before Remake part 3. It’s Aerith’s moment, no shock they’ll keep her close to and on center stage.

I still remember how Aerith and Cloud were shown off pretty early in Remake’s marketing, but Tifa was the one held back for the big E3 showcase. Crowd went nuts when they finally showed her onscreen.

Main casts of FFs rarely fully copy eachother, which is pretty impressive considering how FF functions. Characters can be similar, but there’s usually one or two aspects that make them different be it their personality or the job class they represent.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah, with the way the outfits came hand in hand with Zidane's sword and Amaranth's claws I kind of assumed it was based more on aesthetic than plot and character stuff. It'd look pretty bad for FF as a whole if their casts were interchangeable like that.

Like my only other FF experience at the moment is maybe half of of FF4 and if you asked me to make a crossover with that I'd totally put Aerith as Rosa, not because I think their personalities or roles in the plot are a particularly good fit, but because they're both the white mage character. Then again, I'd also be tempted to place Zack as Cecil instead of Cloud so that would still be a shipping win for me hahaha.

 

[Eerie]

I may be wrong, but it feels to me that SE is quite ignorant of the fandom, and doesn't realise Tifa and CT's popularity, even though she trusts the top charts ahead of Aerith for years now. Some of their PR has been really questionable, and can only be understood as "Aerith is our golden child, everyone must see her like that".

Yet, they do know that Tifa sells - they priced her figurines higher than the others, and they still sold faster than the others at a con last week... yes it was an SE event. But it doesn't seem that they've grasped how much she is loved for herself and not for weird otakus. They're still in a very 90's mentality regarding Aerith and Tifa PR-wise, and that just pisses off people. Tifa fans crave Tifa merch so much that they buy literally anything with her, which means SE doesn't put any real effort on her, meanwhile Aerith gets all the goodies a year before Tifa does.

And all of that for pretty poor quality merchandising-wise, because honestly all of SE's merch is quite the rip off, IMHO.

 

[eleamaya]

Like my only other FF experience at the moment is maybe half of of FF4 and if you asked me to make a crossover with that I'd totally put Aerith as Rosa, not because I think their personalities or roles in the plot are a particularly good fit, but because they're both the white mage character. Then again, I'd also be tempted to place Zack as Cecil instead of Cloud so that would still be a shipping win for me hahaha.

Actually, in DFFOO, Cloud's FR ability is Cecil.
FR ability pairs two characters that has similarity; just like Noctis with Zack & Zack with Tidus. Tifa is paired with Rem from FF Type-O. Aerith is actually with Eiko (FF9).

 

[Shadowstorm]

Actually, in DFFOO, Cloud's FR ability is Cecil.
FR ability pairs two characters that has similarity; just like Noctis with Zack & Zack with Tidus. Tifa is paired with Rem from FF Type-O. Aerith is actually with Eiko (FF9).

That's cool! I was mostly just talking about a hypothetical scenario to drive home that the characters don't necessarily work as 1:1 stand-ins for each other though. Like Aerith not being Rosa despite sharing some tropes, and how Cloud and Zack both have traits they share with Cecil, but neither one of them is actually the same as him

 

[eleamaya]

That's cool! I was mostly just talking about a hypothetical scenario to drive home that the characters don't necessarily work as 1:1 stand-ins for each other though. Like Aerith not being Rosa despite sharing some tropes, and how Cloud and Zack both have traits they share with Cecil, but neither one of them is actually the same as him

I've just started FF4 so Idk much of Cecil's personality.
Rosa is Rem's FR ability partner in DFFOO. So I guess. Rosa, Rem, and Tifa share similarities.
What I know is they're childhood friend of the heroes in their respective series.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I've just started FF4 so Idk much of Cecil's personality.
Rosa is Rem's FR ability partner in DFFOO. So I guess. Rosa, Rem, and Tifa share similarities.
What I know is they're childhood friend of the heroes in their respective series.

I'm still playing through it myself, I may well know less than you haha. But, wow I guess squeenix really like's the childhood friends trope, huh?

 

[eleamaya]

I'm still playing through it myself, I may well know less than you haha. But, wow I guess squeenix really like's the childhood friends trope, huh?

Haha, can I say Noctluna & Cliji starts like Cloti but ends like Zerith?

 

[Shadowstorm]

Haha, can I say Noctluna & Cliji starts like Cloti but ends like Zerith?

Since they're the most recent games I actually knew about the tragic aspect of it through osmosis. Maybe let your next couple have a happily ever after Square damn

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, with the way the outfits came hand in hand with Zidane's sword and Amaranth's claws I kind of assumed it was based more on aesthetic than plot and character stuff. It'd look pretty bad for FF as a whole if their casts were interchangeable like that.

Like my only other FF experience at the moment is maybe half of of FF4 and if you asked me to make a crossover with that I'd totally put Aerith as Rosa, not because I think their personalities or roles in the plot are a particularly good fit, but because they're both the white mage character. Then again, I'd also be tempted to place Zack as Cecil instead of Cloud so that would still be a shipping win for me hahaha.

Actually, in DFFOO, Cloud's FR ability is Cecil.
FR ability pairs two characters that has similarity; just like Noctis with Zack & Zack with Tidus. Tifa is paired with Rem from FF Type-O. Aerith is actually with Eiko (FF9).

That's cool! I was mostly just talking about a hypothetical scenario to drive home that the characters don't necessarily work as 1:1 stand-ins for each other though. Like Aerith not being Rosa despite sharing some tropes, and how Cloud and Zack both have traits they share with Cecil, but neither one of them is actually the same as him

I've just started FF4 so Idk much of Cecil's personality.
Rosa is Rem's FR ability partner in DFFOO. So I guess. Rosa, Rem, and Tifa share similarities.
What I know is they're childhood friend of the heroes in their respective series.

I'm still playing through it myself, I may well know less than you haha. But, wow I guess squeenix really like's the childhood friends trope, huh?

Speaking as an expert on FF4, I'd say Aerith fits better as Rydia, and Zack is a lot like Edge. Cecil has a lot of arc similarities to Cloud but for different reasons, and Rosa is absolutely the unflaggingly supportive childhood friend turned love interest.
It's the rest of the cast where the matchups start getting very strange, though. Like do you match Cid Highwind with Cid Pollendina or Kain Highwind because he fits archetypes of both. Where do you slot Cait/Reeve or Red?

Haha, can I say Noctluna & Cliji starts like Cloti but ends like Zerith?

Noctluna is odd because it ends as both Zerith and Cloti depending on if you do the original game ending or the novel ending.

 

[GamerSkull]

Noctluna is odd because it ends as both Zerith and Cloti depending on if you do the original game ending or the novel ending.

I really need to sit down and read the novel at some point. I’ve finished the game twice and I own the novel, but I’ve never found the time read it.

I am curious because from what I gather it was going to be the actual ending. But they canceled the DLCs leading to it.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Speaking as an expert on FF4, I'd say Aerith fits better as Rydia, and Zack is a lot like Edge. Cecil has a lot of arc similarities to Cloud but for different reasons, and Rosa is absolutely the unflaggingly supportive childhood friend turned love interest.
It's the rest of the cast where the matchups start getting very strange, though. Like do you match Cid Highwind with Cid Pollendina or Kain Highwind because he fits archetypes of both. Where do you slot Cait/Reeve or Red?

I should thank you for reccomending it! Visually it kinda aged better than ff7 in many ways(this might be my soft spot for the SNES speaking) and I've really been enjoying it so far.

I can't believe I didn't consider Aerith as Rydia that fits way better. I had opted for Zack as Cecil mainly because of the whole questioning the thing he once looked up to thing, but his arc has plenty in common with Cloud as well. I've only just rescued Rosa but she for sure has the same supportive vibes as Tifa. I think there may be a few characters I haven't met yet so I'm not sure about the rest. Maybe Barret as Tellah? He's already a dad with a revenge quest even if Marlene isn't the one dead.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think there was a conversation earlier about in the thread but the dynamics between Clerith is essentially the same with Squall and Rinoa. But there is no overlap for some reason. That’s the story CA shippers should embrace.

 

[Fakewings_]

I don’t understand why people see C&A as having a deeply spiritual bond. To describe such a relationship, people often refer to the strong understanding between both sides, where one becomes an emotional support through both joy and hardship for the other person. And they only able to share all their thoughts, interests, and concerns with each other but no one else. It's a kind of soulmate relationship, but not romantic love. But throughout the entire Remakes, I didn’t FEEL that deep connection between C&A. Yes, A confides in C about her loneliness and desires at times. C is also very willing to listen to her, support, and encourage her, but it feels similar to how C treats Tifa and everyone else.
On the other hand, I haven’t seen C open up to A in the same way. All of C’s expressions are just being more open with everyone, smiling more when with A… So what exactly are the 'deep' aspects between C&A?
Sorry for my bad English cause it’s not my first language

 

[Ryushikaze]

I should thank you for reccomending it! Visually it kinda aged better than ff7 in many ways(this might be my soft spot for the SNES speaking) and I've really been enjoying it so far.

I can't believe I didn't consider Aerith as Rydia that fits way better. I had opted for Zack as Cecil mainly because of the whole questioning the thing he once looked up to thing, but his arc has plenty in common with Cloud as well. I've only just rescued Rosa but she for sure has the same supportive vibes as Tifa. I think there may be a few characters I haven't met yet so I'm not sure about the rest. Maybe Barret as Tellah? He's already a dad with a revenge quest even if Marlene isn't the one dead.

Tellah as the crotchety but passionate old coot does fit Barret pretty well. You're just past Damcyan and on your way to Fabul, yes? You're not quite yet to the part of Cecil's arc that's similar to Cloud's, IMO. Of course there's even more twists and revelations further down the line I won't even hint at yet.

I think there was a conversation earlier about in the thread but the dynamics between Clerith is essentially the same with Squall and Rinoa. But there is no overlap for some reason. That’s the story CA shippers should embrace.

Specifically the "Cheerful spunky woman enters the life of a very grumpy man and through her dogged tirelessness melts his heart and love blooms."
The problem is that Cloud and Squall are both angry brooding hero types, but they are very different in the cause and expression of their brooding. Cloud is trying desperately to be cool so he will be noticed by someone who's noticed him already. Squall is desperately trying to keep everyone at arm's length because he's decided that the pain of losing someone is too great so he doesn't want to let anyone get close enough to care about again.
Rinoa meanwhile is what happens when you mix Tifa and Aerith back together. She's the sheltered princess but also the leader of a resistance against an unjust government but also she has a special destiny she barely knows about.

I don’t understand why people see C&A as having a deeply spiritual bond. To describe such a relationship, people often refer to the strong understanding between both sides, where one becomes an emotional support through both joy and hardship for the other person. And they only able to share all their thoughts, interests, and concerns with each other but no one else. It's a kind of soulmate relationship, but not romantic love. But throughout the entire Remakes, I didn’t FEEL that deep connection between C&A. Yes, A confides in C about her loneliness and desires at times. C is also very willing to listen to her, support, and encourage her, but it feels similar to how C treats Tifa and everyone else.
On the other hand, I haven’t seen C open up to A in the same way. All of C’s expressions are just being more open with everyone, smiling more when with A… So what exactly are the 'deep' aspects between C&A?
Sorry for my bad English cause it’s not my first language

There really aren't many, especially once you look at their relationship in comparison to Zack and Aerith's and notice ALL the ways in which she's trying to mirror that relationship and Cloud just isn't having it. When Aerith isn't trying to shoehorn him into a romantic role he has a much better time around her. When she does, he's annoyed or thinks she's being weird, something she dislikes being called.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I don’t understand why people see C&A as having a deeply spiritual bond. To describe such a relationship, people often refer to the strong understanding between both sides, where one becomes an emotional support through both joy and hardship for the other person. And they only able to share all their thoughts, interests, and concerns with each other but no one else. It's a kind of soulmate relationship, but not romantic love. But throughout the entire Remakes, I didn’t FEEL that deep connection between C&A. Yes, A confides in C about her loneliness and desires at times. C is also very willing to listen to her, support, and encourage her, but it feels similar to how C treats Tifa and everyone else.
On the other hand, I haven’t seen C open up to A in the same way. All of C’s expressions are just being more open with everyone, smiling more when with A… So what exactly are the 'deep' aspects between C&A?
Sorry for my bad English cause it’s not my first language

I don't often find myself agreeing with the hardcore Clerith crowd on either of their characterizations much less their dynamic so I'm not sure how good of a response I can give in regards to their pov, but I could tell you what I personally like about their bond without necessarily shipping them romantically?

I think the main thing is that they're both deeply lonely and somewhat socially stunted people. In Aerith's case it obviously comes from spending the earliest years of her life in captivity and the later years under Shinra's watch with a very protective mother. It's heavily implied she just did not have any peers she was close to at all until she met Zack (I'd argue their was a class barrier between her and the other kids at play there too but that's a whole discussion on it's own). For Cloud it comes from a combination of him isolating himself as a kid and the rest of the village blaming him for what happened to Tifa. Hardcore Clerith shippers also believe Tifa bullied Cloud, so as inaccurate as it is it does add to this theme. It comes from very different places and manifests in very different ways but I do think they instinctively recognize this in each other, and it encourages them to want to spend more time together. Along with the Zack factor, of course.

They're also both comically bad at the emotions thing. We always talk about "opposites" in the main 4 in terms of extroverted vs introverted but I'd argue the real contrast between them is Zack and Tifa are emotionally intelligent and Aerith and Cloud are absolutely not. This definitely is more my interpretation that a popular Clerith one since I think they make Aerith out to be a lot wiser and more caring than she really is, but it's something I find very compelling about them. Cloud puts on a tough exterior to avoid dealing with his feelings, but Aerith's teasing and upbeat nature serves the same purpose. When they're together they're never in a situation where someone forces them to sit with what they're feeling. Aerith won't ask Cloud to open up and Cloud won't argue with Aerith when she rapidly switches topics to something lighter. I think it helps them feel comfortable with each other and even allows Aerith to actually be vulnerable about her own feelings on a few occasions.

There's also the fact that being around each other allows them to live out their respective fantasies of seeing Zack again and being the cool 1st class soldier. This is obviously the shallow and fake part of their relationship, but it's rooted in a shared grief they aren't even aware of. I belive that if Aerith had lived they would have bonded quite a bit mourning Zack.

People also latch onto Aerith wanting to find the real Cloud as a sign of a deeper connection, but imo the point is that she never got to know that guy and that was a deep tragedy. Their bond could have been very deep but I think the point is that it never got to reach that point.

If we're also looking at the OG a case could be made that she seems to bring out a softer side of him when they first meet, but Remake got rid of that element by extending his time in sector 7 so I wouldn't count that anymore personally

 

[Shadowstorm]

Tellah as the crotchety but passionate old coot does fit Barret pretty well. You're just past Damcyan and on your way to Fabul, yes? You're not quite yet to the part of Cecil's arc that's similar to Cloud's, IMO. Of course there's even more twists and revelations further down the line I won't even hint at yet.

Oh, I forgot there was another rescuing Rosa situation haha. I actually meant the second time, though I managed to play a little bit more today and got to hang with some dwarves and learned that instead of 3 dead kids I only have 2 dead kids and one that got aged up as if she's a comic book legacy kid. So you know doing a little better in the child endangerment department. There might be more I don't know but I did get some Cloud vibes with Cecil having basically and identity overhaul too, albeit a different flavor of it.

edit: realized just a second too late I probably should have just edited this into the previous post to avoid double posting. Sorry about that