Reaper3Delta
Pro Adventurer
Thanks for the link.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Damn that's some brain space I won't get back. I'd think it was a troll too but check out same posters "This Space Has been Infiltrated!!!" post and it seems like not.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
See, that's why I block them
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Honestly, it might have been intentional in order to soak up pity given the way that poster's been acting. It's a train wreck over there. Moreso than usual, that is.
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Fakewings_
Rookie Adventurer
A bit off-topic, but I think P3 SE should focus on developing a truly meaningful storyline Instead of maintaining a vague stance & fueling the LTD. “2 girls are in love with 1 man” in this era has become outdated and lacks practicality. Let the players gradually experience and reflect on the characters' personalities, the hidden messages, and the storyline rather than focusing on the question: Who does Cloud love?
Then why not create a truly unforgettable, undeniable and consistent love story throughout the entire narrative? Let’s make the LS and UHW scene go beyond the scene between TidusxYuna, so that players many years later still remember one of the romantic, beautiful and strongly connected scenes between the two characters. Let’s end LTD completely.
Take a look at the rising game Black Myth: Wukong—it keeps players glued to the screen with its incredibly detailed graphics, a multi-layered storyline, and beautifully interwoven love stories, really like a movie. Instead, we, 3 years later, could still have to think and analyze the ambiguous actions of the hero and the conflicting perspectives of each side.
Then why not create a truly unforgettable, undeniable and consistent love story throughout the entire narrative? Let’s make the LS and UHW scene go beyond the scene between TidusxYuna, so that players many years later still remember one of the romantic, beautiful and strongly connected scenes between the two characters. Let’s end LTD completely.
Take a look at the rising game Black Myth: Wukong—it keeps players glued to the screen with its incredibly detailed graphics, a multi-layered storyline, and beautifully interwoven love stories, really like a movie. Instead, we, 3 years later, could still have to think and analyze the ambiguous actions of the hero and the conflicting perspectives of each side.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I personally think that they are going to end the LTD in a very unambiguous way. With CT and ZA. And there are 2 huge hints in Rebirth that Cloud will actually confess his feelings to Tifa (although he already kind of did in the OG, it will be even clearer this time around).
If you look at Rebirth, the whole game is already shouting at you that Cloud loves Tifa. They have the romance arc in the main story and are built up properly for p3. CA got a proper goodbye, but one-sided feelings. P3 will be CT and ZA game (and more to the point, as much as Rebirth was an Aerith game, p3 will be Tifa's game especially).
Fakewings_
Rookie Adventurer
I do agree with you about 90%.
Why do I say SE is being intentionally ambiguous? Because I haven't seen a clear explanation of the significance of the hand-holding scene at the end between C&A. Is it that, deep down, C knows A is dead, and he's trying to hold onto a piece of A's? Or is SE deliberately trying to maintain the ambiguity forever?
If it’s just about recreating the scene from AC, then there’s no need for them to intertwine their fingers like that. That’s why I think P3 is the last chance for SE to make it clear and create a truly impactful game. Instead of being willing to tease both sides just for money.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Yeah, despite the name "Koibito Tsunagi" isn't inherently romantic. And it's sort of baby's first romantic expression for when it is. Even ignoring the actual kiss for being 'NON-CANON OPTIONAL' there's so much more touching between CT it's bonkers.
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
Hate to be a stick in the mud here, but having some level of ambiguity about a character's feelings about another character at the time of her death isn't inherently a bad thing. Having things left up for viewers interpretation that can be discussed even after a story is over without a definite answer is considered a sign of good writing in many circles even.
I fully expect them to commit to CT and ZA next part, but they may well never give us a solid answer to how Cloud felt about Aerith and I think that's fine. It's not a creator's responsibility to manage online discourse about their work.
edit: just to be clear though, I already think Squeenix is being very blatant about the ships I'm just not rooting for a slideshow or a (more) explicit Clerith friendzoning
I fully expect them to commit to CT and ZA next part, but they may well never give us a solid answer to how Cloud felt about Aerith and I think that's fine. It's not a creator's responsibility to manage online discourse about their work.
edit: just to be clear though, I already think Squeenix is being very blatant about the ships I'm just not rooting for a slideshow or a (more) explicit Clerith friendzoning
Fakewings_
Rookie Adventurer
What I mean is that in P3, they don’t necessarily need to confirm C’s feelings for A, but they should avoid introducing any more details that lead to controversial interpretations, especially after C has rediscovered himself and considering what T has done for C. T deserves to be treated fairly and with respect.
Additionally, I hope the devs focus more on exploring C’s pain after the deaths of his loved ones: his mother, Zack, and Aerith. The deaths of his mother and Zack should have been emphasized more because they are the ones who truly died for him to live. Especially his mother—her death doesn’t seem to leave any real pain or torment (based on what I’ve seen in the game, AC, and Ulti). This frustrates me greatly, as the death of his only family member doesn’t carry as much weight as that of a girl he met for less than two weeks. It’s weird and lack of depth.
Additionally, I hope the devs focus more on exploring C’s pain after the deaths of his loved ones: his mother, Zack, and Aerith. The deaths of his mother and Zack should have been emphasized more because they are the ones who truly died for him to live. Especially his mother—her death doesn’t seem to leave any real pain or torment (based on what I’ve seen in the game, AC, and Ulti). This frustrates me greatly, as the death of his only family member doesn’t carry as much weight as that of a girl he met for less than two weeks. It’s weird and lack of depth.
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
To be honest, if Cloud kissing Tifa, the games setting up Aerith and Zack's reunion, Cloud telling Aerith "let's make more memories we're nakama", and Aerith saying she isn't even sure of her like don't remove this "ambiguity," then I hardly think anything will. I mean, what more do people want or expect?
Maybe at some point, the fault isn't in the writing? Maybe the fault is in the people viewing everything as explicitly or implicitly romantic?
Maybe at some point, the fault isn't in the writing? Maybe the fault is in the people viewing everything as explicitly or implicitly romantic?
To be fair, I think they've already added more weight to Claudia? And I do suspect we'll see more in P3.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I don't think we can measure or weigh things this way as it's different for everyone and might not work out that way logically. For example I see people criticise Zack for not always putting Aerith first and foremost, for hesitating or being indecisive, saying he "picked Biggs over her", while I thought that's Aerith’s friend, ofc Zack will save him. I don't even think it matter if Zack only knew Bigg's five minutes it'd torment him he lost him because Zack has already lost so much by then. I think it's similar to Cloud.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
They'll likely be pretty explicit about CT and ZA. I actually think they're gonna balance his guilt over Zack and Aerith in Part 3. He'll not only have to come to terms with her death, but he'll also have to realize his best friend died for him to live.
In fact, I feel like they're already setting up for it. We're gonna see Cloud mourn Zack in the next game just as much as Aerith.
"Zack was my friend. How could I forget him like that?" will hit much harder when he realizes he still didn't remember the full truth.
In fact, I feel like they're already setting up for it. We're gonna see Cloud mourn Zack in the next game just as much as Aerith.
"Zack was my friend. How could I forget him like that?" will hit much harder when he realizes he still didn't remember the full truth.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I think it's fine because the OG was designed that way: as the player, you could think Cloud's feelings for Aerith were romantic or not. But it was more a player view, so it was never canon.
His love for Tifa though was always canon and I think they're going to hammer it in such way that even if you think he loved Aerith, you won't be able to deny his love for Tifa. A lot of people have thought that if Aerith would've lived, he would've chosen her, but personally I think that Rebirth shows the contrary: in the dates, there's only one kiss. Sure the dates are what-ifs situations, but we're shown that he loves Tifa romantically, and his love for Aerith is much more on a platonic level - one could even say he spent their date as a stand in for Zack, both in the play and the gondola. That's what Rebirth shows, ultimately, and when we'll look at the bigger picture after p3, I think it will force a lot of people to give another reading to it.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
There really isn't one. Ironically, the best explanation for her response her comes in her gold saucer date where she explains she realized that she had been falling into a Zack trap with Cloud even through she's been trying to move on. The only reason she has to dislike Zack is that he's gone, and that's not his fault.
MissMDusk
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Mari
Nothing much to add on what we already know, but someone caught this dialogue that feels awfully like CT... here.
It could also be ZA, as if they're inseparable from each other mentally even if they're separated "physically" in the LS, but the fact the characters even look like aged-up CT to me, I dunno
It could also be ZA, as if they're inseparable from each other mentally even if they're separated "physically" in the LS, but the fact the characters even look like aged-up CT to me, I dunno
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null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Yeah, dubs are less about strict accuracy and more about matching mouth movements and sounding natural in the target language. Makes sense that different languages would end up with different nuances.
Reaper3Delta
Pro Adventurer
Funny that "The CloTi Blacklist" seems to have backfired, It has caused an huge influx of new followers to the CloTi posters. LMAO
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Apparently I'm on the blocklist already, despite having interacted with Zero CA people on twitter in the month I've been there and never before that as I can recall. But I'm sure I'm there for arguments way back when.
Reaper3Delta
Pro Adventurer
Well, Guilty by association and being a dangerous CloTi lol. Don't forget to put the "Danger" emoji next to your name now. Maybe check if you gained some new followers too.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Oh, but I didn't rate the danger icon in the list and I wouldn't want to pull a false valor. I'll just add my usertitle from here, since I made it in response to their silly mudslinging ages ago anyways.
Sacky
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- SackyBoy
That list now has descriptions for some of them including sexual harrasment and threats. Do they not understand how bad it is to have those people listed on the same list with people who legit just like the Ship?? have these people ever not been online?. This is getting into criminal territory over a damm ship? In which the OP has admitted to never even playing OG and has joined the fandom recently. Yet is still claiming that Cleriths have been bullied by clotis for decades and they need to protect themselves and that this represents the whole cloti fandom. Yet turn a blind eye at the actions of cleriths?. Both sides have done bad things because its 2 big fandoms and not one collective mindset of people.
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
Apologies for being late on the response here. I just don't feel like avoiding scenes between two major characters that do in canon mean a lot to each other should be avoided just because they could be interpreted as romantic. If they stick to their guns and make clear CT and ZA are endgame I really wouldn't mind if there's a Clerith scene or two, Aerith is important to Cloud after all, and shippers are gonna ship regardless so why nerf the story for their sakes?
I think Aerith's death being given more focus than Claudia's is as simple as the devs knowing the player is gonna have more of an attachment to a main character than an NPC that dies in a flashback. I'd also argue the people you know for very briefly can still leave a massive impact on your life, but I do think this was done mainly for Doylist reasons.
That being said:
I agree. They've already expanded on Claudia and I'm sure they'll take some time to let Cloud (and Tifa) sit with her death for a bit in part 3