SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rin]

The idea that Brian Lockhart is a horrible person for getting mad at Cloud when the other boys threw him under the bus and Cloud refused to defend himself to protect Tifa, or something else?

Yes, that. And they seem to have this idea that Brian and the people of Nibelheim are prejudiced against the Strifes in general. I've heard this so much that even I just accepted it for a long time but when I actually went looking for proof.... there's none and if anything Nojima only debunked such a thought in ToTP.

 

[GamerSkull]

Cloud’s “huh!?” during the promise scene is not him realizing that Tifa wants a hero. He already wanted to be a hero, he’s just surprised Tifa already views him as having the potential to be one. It’s more that he’s surprised Tifa is showing this level of interest in him.

But this fandom is pretty dumb, it’s nothing new.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, that. And they seem to have this idea that Brian and the people of Nibelheim are prejudiced against the Strifes in general. I've heard this so much that even I just accepted it for a long time but when I actually went looking for proof.... there's none and if anything Nojima only debunked such a thought in ToTP.

There was the bit about her being looked at funny because she had dreams of leaving the place, but then you've got the town elders talking positively about her because of it, Tifa helping her out, etc. It definitely seems like whatever it was didn't bother Claudia, at least.

 

[Rin]

There was the bit about her being looked at funny because she had dreams of leaving the place, but then you've got the town elders talking positively about her because of it, Tifa helping her out, etc. It definitely seems like whatever it was didn't bother Claudia, at least.

Yeah, precisely. They think it's admirable and they encourage Tifa to be just like Claudia too. They have a lot of sympathy for the fact that she lost her husband on the mountain and had to raise Cloud alone. They seemed to rally around her and support her, not ostracize her. But a loooot of the fandom seems to think that the villagers hate her for being a single mother and think she's a failure lol and they seem to think Brian also firmly agrees w/ this line of thinking when he shows no signs of it at all.

Edit: Also it's weird that the fandom would even believe Claudia would be looked down upon for being a "single mother" when she's technically a widow.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think this is the only fandom I have ever been part of that seems to permeate misinterpretations and misconceptions.

It kinda makes me feel a bit jaded, I dunno.

Not to mention the level of bad faith takes towards characters that I’ve never seen in any other fandom.

 

[GamerSkull]

Edit: Also it's weird that the fandom would even believe Claudia would be looked down upon for being a "single mother" when she's technically a widow.

Not to mention, Brian is a single father after Thea dies.

 

[pxl_pushr]

And the fact that ReTrilogy will render a lot of fanon and headcanon false is going to fuel a good bit of ire. It’s going to be interesting to try and parse genuine criticism of the narrative and execution from “this destroyed my headcanon and I took it personal”

 

[Ryeleigh]

Yes, that. And they seem to have this idea that Brian and the people of Nibelheim are prejudiced against the Strifes in general. I've heard this so much that even I just accepted it for a long time but when I actually went looking for proof.... there's none and if anything Nojima only debunked such a thought in ToTP.

Yeah, precisely. They think it's admirable and they encourage Tifa to be just like Claudia too. They have a lot of sympathy for the fact that she lost her husband on the mountain and had to raise Cloud alone. They seemed to rally around her and support her, not ostracize her. But a loooot of the fandom seems to think that the villagers hate her for being a single mother and think she's a failure lol and they seem to think Brian also firmly agrees w/ this line of thinking when he shows no signs of it at all.

Edit: Also it's weird that the fandom would even believe Claudia would be looked down upon for being a "single mother" when she's technically a widow.

To add, one pervasive fanon I've seen around is that Cloud was traumatised before he left the village? Because, you know, the entire village was ostracising him and his mum, which is why he wanted to become a hero~ so everyone would see that he is somebody of worth after all~ dattebayo! I mean...

Admittedly, it's been a while since I played the OG so I never really bothered to argue with these takes, but I'm pretty sure Cloud's only traumas regarding the village are that he thinks he failed Tifa and a venerated war hero had a psychotic breakdown and burned it all to the ground?

Like, I don't know. It has always felt like a lowkey attempt to diminish Tifa's importance to Cloud and CT.

 

[GamerSkull]

Like, I don't know. It has always felt like a lowkey attempt to diminish Tifa's importance to Cloud and CT.

It is, there’s a reason Cloud calls Tifa out to the Well. He wanted her, specifically, to know this because he wanted to be special to her (and there’s now a short story that confirms this so I don’t fucking understand this denial).

There’s a reason he didn’t call Brian or Emilio out there or whatever. He doesn’t care about what anyone else thinks except Tifa, which he reiterates at the Northern Cave in the wake of Sephiroth’s gaslighting.

 

[null]

Tifa realizes she loves Cloud just as she realizes he's a normal boy. Which is an oddly specific thing to put in the book, in an oddly specific scene in the book. Nojima the Narrator is looking at us through the fourth wall over the rim of his glasses. It's not hero worship or loving a shadow.

Now having said that, I do think Cloud is her hero. That doesn't mean Tifa inserted Cloud into her hero fantasy or that anyone else could even be her hero. It means her faith in him is insanely high, which is a source of strength but also occasionally conflict between the two. I feel like this wouldn't be a controversial opinion if the fandom wasn't crawling with character assassins. This race to the bottom over every detail is exhausting.

As for Claudia, I remember the book mentioning the villagers being "cold and reserved" to the Strifes even after all that time had passed since Tifa's injury. Yet another oddly specific detail. I don't know that it's terribly important to the story, but it does address the nitpicky complaint that Claudia knew Cloud was in town and it didn't spread like wildfire.

 

[Rin]

To add, one pervasive fanon I've seen around is that Cloud was traumatised before he left the village? Because, you know, the entire village was ostracising him and his mum, which is why he wanted to become a hero~ so everyone would see that he is somebody of worth after all~ dattebayo! I mean...

Admittedly, it's been a while since I played the OG so I never really bothered to argue with these takes, but I'm pretty sure Cloud's only traumas regarding the village are that he thinks he failed Tifa and a venerated war hero had a psychotic breakdown and burned it all to the ground?

Like, I don't know. It has always felt like a lowkey attempt to diminish Tifa's importance to Cloud and CT.

Yeah, Cloud specifically tells Sephiroth to "return" the village to him before he kills him in the reactor in CC, at least. So it doesn't seem that he's traumatized by the village or the people in it. If anything, he secretly loves his village. He's just a grumpy lil kid who didn't want to share Tifa with other boys tbh.

As for Claudia, I remember the book mentioning the villagers being "cold and reserved" to the Strifes even after all that time had passed since Tifa's injury. Yet another oddly specific detail. I don't know that it's terribly important to the story, but it does address the nitpicky complaint that Claudia knew Cloud was in town and it didn't spread like wildfire.

Yeah, I just finished all the Nibelheim recollection scenes from Tifa's story and there's exactly one part where Tifa recalls that after the incident on Mt. Nibel the other families began to speak of Cloud and Claudia with a hint of coldness and reservation... which makes sense bc all Cloud said when they asked why he led Tifa up the mountain was "I dunno." smh. So, probably not a leap to assume that the villagers were a bit cold to their face as well, but at the same time... it's such a small, traditional village they might just be cordial to keep up appearances.

Also, Claudia tells Tifa that Cloud only wrote home to her exactly one time in the 2 years he's been gone and that if Cloud was assigned to this current mission, he's not the type to tell her about it. Now this could be a lie but if she's not lying that also covers the nitpicky complaint lol

 

[GamerSkull]

Tifa realizes she loves Cloud just as she realizes he's a normal boy. Which is an oddly specific thing to put in the book, in an oddly specific scene in the book. Nojima the Narrator is looking at us through the fourth wall over the rim of his glasses. It's not hero worship or loving a shadow.

Now having said that, I do think Cloud is her hero. That doesn't mean Tifa inserted Cloud into her hero fantasy or that anyone else could even be her hero. It means her faith in him is insanely high, which is a source of strength but also occasionally conflict between the two. I feel like this wouldn't be a controversial opinion if the fandom wasn't crawling with character assassins. This race to the bottom over every detail is exhausting.

As for Claudia, I remember the book mentioning the villagers being "cold and reserved" to the Strifes even after all that time had passed since Tifa's injury. Yet another oddly specific detail. I don't know that it's terribly important to the story, but it does address the nitpicky complaint that Claudia knew Cloud was in town and it didn't spread like wildfire.

Yeah, it's specific only to Cloud. If Emilio called her up to the well and said he was gonna go be a SOLDIER, she wouldn't have given a fuck.

EDIT: Grammar

 

[Eerie]

In fact she avoided being one on one with the boys. Yet she went to a dating spot with Cloud.

 

[GamerSkull]

In fact she avoided being one on one with the boys. Yet she went to a dating spot with Cloud.

I think she also specifically chose to wear an outfit that she thought would look nice too.

 

[Ryushikaze]

An outfit that Cloud remembers 7 years later.
Totally not an important memory to him though.

In fact, 2000 Gil to be a hero is fanfic, dontcha know. No kidding, someone recently argued that Cloud entering into the promise of his own free will was "fanfiction level bullshit" so either people aren't reading or they're deliberately misreading what Nojima wrote.

Same as it ever was, then.

 

[Shadowstorm]

They also seem to be claiming Cloud and Tifa's old water tower represents only the past, while Cloud and Aerith's Shiny new water tower represents the future.

You know the one built by Shinra that in-game is called fake instead of new. And where Cloud refuses to sit wherevAerith asks him to. And they talk about Tifa and how Aerith doesn't have that kind of connection. That water tower.

Part of me admires the ability to cope that hard honestly

 

[Ryushikaze]

They also seem to be claiming Cloud and Tifa's old water tower represents only the past, while Cloud and Aerith's Shiny new water tower represents the future.

You know the one built by Shinra that in-game is called fake instead of new. And where Cloud refuses to sit wherevAerith asks him to. And they talk about Tifa and how Aerith doesn't have that kind of connection. That water tower.

Part of me admires the ability to cope that hard honestly

"Tifa is the past, Aerith is the future" has always struck me an a bizarre line to take given the obvious, but also in that Aerith is the last member of an ancient and dying race.

 

[GamerSkull]

"fanfiction level bullshit"

That phrase gets tossed around so much that I just automatically assume it means "it's just not the way I imagined it."

Also, but Maiden isn't "fanfiction level bullshit" despite not being written by Nojima. Not to mention the several things in it that Crisis Core contradicts. In fact, thinking Maiden has seniority in canon over Crisis Core is already laughable as it is.

"Tifa is the past, Aerith is the future"

The same people that say that this refuse to believe that Cloud can move on after Aerith's death. People are just very selective.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That phrase gets tossed around so much that I just automatically assume it means "it's just not the way I imagined it."

Also, but Maiden isn't "fanfiction level bullshit" despite not being written by Nojima. Not to mention the several things in it that Crisis Core contradicts. In fact, thinking Maiden has seniority in canon over Crisis Core is already laughable as it is.

What's funny is back in the day, we were still absolutely prepared to include Maiden in a sort of secondary canon status until it got contradicted to hell and back by CC, DoC and the death knell of Benny saying "Oh, I just wrote it on my own assumptions, didn't consult or anything, it's nothing big" and it being excluded from the compilation when G-Bike, of all things, was included.

The same people that say that this refuse to believe that Cloud can move on after Aerith's death. People are just very selective.

But that Aerith not only can, but has, and fuck you for suggesting otherwise even when she talks about seeing her ex boyfriend in Cloud and recreating her moments with Z with C.

 

[GamerSkull]

What's funny is back in the day, we were still absolutely prepared to include Maiden in a sort of secondary canon status until it got contradicted to hell and back by CC, DoC and the death knell of Benny saying "Oh, I just wrote it on my own assumptions, didn't consult or anything, it's nothing big" and it being excluded from the compilation when G-Bike, of all things, was included.


But that Aerith not only can, but has, and fuck you for suggesting otherwise even when she talks about seeing her ex boyfriend in Cloud and recreating her moments with Z with C.

Basically, they ignore the context behind scenes if it doesn't fit their interpretation.

 

[null]

What's funny is back in the day, we were still absolutely prepared to include Maiden in a sort of secondary canon status until it got contradicted to hell and back by CC, DoC and the death knell of Benny saying "Oh, I just wrote it on my own assumptions, didn't consult or anything, it's nothing big" and it being excluded from the compilation when G-Bike, of all things, was included.


But that Aerith not only can, but has, and fuck you for suggesting otherwise even when she talks about seeing her ex boyfriend in Cloud and recreating her moments with Z with C.

Yeah aside from runny egg metaphors and a stiff translation (which TurquoiseHammer did a great job of polishing up recently), I never had a problem with Maiden. Hell, I prefer Maiden’s non-Advent Childrenized lore over ReTrilogy’s. The personalities of the side characters do feel dated now though.

 

[GamerSkull]

I've never actually fully read Maiden, and I probably won't considering its canonical status but from what I hear of it, it's still assumes endgame Cloti so I don't really understand why it's so heavily used by CA fans.

 

[null]

I've never actually fully read Maiden, and I probably won't considering its canonical status but from what I hear of it, it's still assumes endgame Cloti so I don't really understand why it's so heavily used by CA fans.

Because Maiden Tifa is only taking care of Maiden Cloud, i.e. keeping him company until he dies. Then his true afterlife romance begins after the story ends (this is clearly implied and only delusional haters would claim otherwise).

 

[Ryeleigh]

I've never actually fully read Maiden, and I probably won't considering its canonical status but from what I hear of it, it's still assumes endgame Cloti so I don't really understand why it's so heavily used by CA fans.

Probably because it "discredits" Zerith.

Though, from what I remember, Aerith tried to think about what she loved about Cloud which summoned Zack, they spent a bit of time hate-flirting, and it ended with Cloud and Tifa going back to the real world, and implying Zack and Aerith getting along again in the future.

People who have read it more recently can correct me, though.

 

[GamerSkull]

Probably because it "discredits" Zerith.

See, I still don't understand this either. The two choices are then:

1. Aerith is alone, unrequited as Cloud ends up with Tifa

2. Aerith is at least with someone she loves and is happy, even if Cloud has chosen another woman.

So Aerith being completely alone is preferable to Aerith being with Zack? Why?

Or is it that they just have clung to a specific passage in Maiden, and have completely blocked out the rest of it? Because then they can say Aerith loved Cloud more and CA is still possible...

This seems to always be a recurring theme in a lot of what I see. They present arguments that they don't realize also apply to themselves (Aerith can move on but Cloud cannot, etc) or they want the story to change (Aerith being alive) even though, in their mind, CA is canon in the original game and Cloud and Aerith reunite in the Lifestream. But also once again, it seems like they want Aerith alive for shipping reasons, so the story being changed doesn't apply to Zack coming back to life as well. Okay, but they want Aerith to be in the Lifestream sequence, but claim that it's not a romantic scene between Cloud and Tifa. Same for Under the Highwind.

Those are just some examples of many that I've found where the logic doesn't quite make a whole lot of sense. There are just holes and double-standards.

Because Maiden Tifa is only taking care of Maiden Cloud, i.e. keeping him company until he dies. Then his true afterlife romance begins after the story ends (this is clearly implied and only delusional haters would claim otherwise).

Honestly, this makes both Aerith and Cloud out to be horrible people in that they will take advantage of another's feelings for them. But Zack is a horrible cheater because he once asked Cissnei out to dinner. It's okay for Cloud to kiss another woman out of jealousy... but fuck Zack for having peak rizz.

Once again, the logic is amazing. /s

There is no hope for this fandom. The salt for Part 3 is gonna be intense.