SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[minami758]

Really, what are the chances she'd bump into this guy again, whom she shared a promise with under the starry skies, when they were separated by so many obstacles and tragic circumstances? I find that emotionally compelling.

This is true! I know this might not be a popular take, but I actually do think Cloud/Tifa as a ship falls into the "soulmate" category. Even if it's just platonic soulmates if CT isn't your cup of tea. I don't know, there's something very emotionally intimate about, quite literally, baring your souls to each other, which is something no other characters experience in the game except Cloud and Tifa. Like, they're each other's home, and they'll always find their way back to each other, one way or another.

(I don't actually believe in soulmates in real life, but I like to indulge in the idea in fiction occasionally.)

Romance aside, I think in some ways all the party members were fated to meet each other. I guess that might be why the Remake is exploring this idea of destiny/fate. I'm not a huge fan of the implication, but still interested to see where things are headed.

ETA: Funnily enough, Tifa also mentions the coincidence of them meeting again during her Alone at Last scene: "Still, it's kind of funny. Us going our separate ways, thinking that must be it... that we'd never meet again — and then here of all places we do."

 

[Odysseus]

And it will be your fault.

No, it will be my privilege.

 

[Final_Heaven]

It's amazing how dense or delusional some people are.

There are actual people that are arguing that Cloud meant the drink not Tifa.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well, I mean, he meant both. The ambiguity is what made it flirty.

 

[Cat on Mars]

@Final_Heaven I don't mind if they want to focus on their Clerith shippy moments (no skin off my nose, you can ship whatever you like), but why do they always have to pull this shit? Enjoying one ship shouldn't make you negate the other. You can like both! You can like the Aerith/Tifa/Cloud if you're into OT3!

@Odysseus , I'm going to draw that weird porn, the shippers are at it again!

 

[minami758]

Well, I mean, he meant both. The ambiguity is what made it flirty.

It's funny because in English Cloud's VA comes off as very suave when he says it, but in Japanese he hesitates a bit, so it's a bit more awkwardly cute. I know in the Ultimania they said they wanted to show him trying to flirt and kind of tripping up, but even when he trips up he still manages to make Tifa's day. It's sweet.

 

[Yumelinh]

Cloud and Aerith are adorable together! Their relationship is just cute all the way around.

They hit all your usual Disneyish romance plot points that It's impossible not to fall for if you grew up watching these types of movies. Plus, they have the good ole drama, and oh boy it serves.

I think I mentioned it here ( or in the Cloti thread?) that the only reason I'm not a multi shipper myself is Cloud's lacks of true agency when their relationship was flourishing, it bothers me, but I tend to never bring this up in any general discussion or hold it against them because I understand that this is a very personal reason and that the relationship between them developed out of good intentions. In short, they are really good!

As for Cloti, I just love the whole idea that comes with it.

I know I have brought this up many times here, but I just LOVE how FFVII subverts all your expectations.

To begin this story w/ your usual stoic hero, and his flowery lady, and the usual dreamland romance, only for halfway through the story to have everything shattered. Your lady dies too soon and too sudden and so there goes your perfect romance, and if that wasn't bad enough turns out your stoic hero is nothing more than your "3rd NPC from the left" whose name you wouldn't even remember in your "usual game". You're stuck with these...ordinary people with ordinary relationships to save the whole world, but that's exactly what made this game out of ordinary at that time. It was simply brilliant, IMO.

As for Tifa, she was always there, kinda in the background when it came to romance, always watching, helping, caring, so when it turned out she was the main love interest it felt like when the second lead that everyone was rooting for in a shoujo wins, actually.... that's exactly what happened, lol. It also serves as such a clean-cut between 'fake' and 'true' Cloud. This Cloud right here has agency, and a person he loves, who just happens to be the person that was at his side at all times.

And honestly? That what pains me the most when it comes to Remake. They will never be able to replicate this. This feeling of having your mind completely blown over and over again like this. But times are different now, and I think they quite aware of what they can't achieve, so they're trying new things, new ways, and I'm okay with that ( even if I don't agree with some of these "new things" that are happening...).

That said, I think Cloti is an "earned" ship. It was certainly not much popular when OG first came out for obvious reasons, but it earned its fan base over the years the more people delved into their relationship. Also, I think the older you get the more you tend to appreciate how much their relationship is rooted in companionship and silently understanding. At least, that's how it was for me.

 

[Graymouse]

I am truly sorry but in the Remake, I found Aerith to be annoying as hell. I didn't really like her personality. I felt that she was really pushy and kinda forceful to Cloud. It was not cute. On several occasions she made Cloud do things that he really didn't want to do. I found her a bit over bearing. She of all people should know that Cloud isn't right in the head. It is quite manipulative in all honestly. I felt no connection between the two, how could there be when they just meet days ago. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

But this is just my opinion. I know that others might enjoy this behavior and I don't mind that they do. I don't like it because it seems like the characters "chemistry is forced" and it is not cute to me at all. I can only control what I like and I am not here to convert one ship to the other or vice versa. I am not here for that.

I respect others point of view on this, some people might agree, other might not. I am here to read other people opinions and view on the LTD and if it so happens that we agree on some things, that is good. If we don't that is good also. Let's discuss our differences and have fun doing it.

The LTD should never be stressful. We are on a thread talking about fictional characters, how silly is that in the grande scheme of things.

 

[Final_Heaven]

It's hard for me to ship Aerith x Cloud because I know the backstory. It's a valid pairing but it's not a viable pairing to me because Aerith is getting all these most moments with a person where half their personality is either copy-pasted from her ex's or completely artificial.

Cloud and Tifa knew each other before Cloud lost his personality and after Cloud got back his personality. And going by Remake too, Tifa is connecting to those glimpses of the real Cloud too and those glimpses are connected back to Tifa.

And going by Aerith's resolution, if we want to believe her, she's connecting to those aspects of him that are fake.

 

[Ruri]

@Graymouse

I am truly sorry but in the Remake, I found Aerith to be annoying as hell. I didn't really like her personality. I felt that she was really pushy and kinda forceful to Cloud. It was not cute. On several occasions she made Cloud do things that he really didn't want to do. I found her a bit over bearing. She of all people should know that Cloud isn't right in the head. It is quite manipulative in all honestly. I felt no connection between the two, how could there be when they just meet days ago. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

But this is just my opinion. I know that others might enjoy this behavior and I don't mind that they do. I don't like it because it seems like the characters "chemistry is forced" and it is not cute to me at all. I can only control what I like and I am not here to convert one ship to the other or vice versa. I am not here for that.

I respect others point of view on this, some people might agree, other might not. I am here to read other people opinions and view on the LTD and if it so happens that we agree on some things, that is good. If we don't that is good also. Let's discuss our differences and have fun doing it.

The LTD should never be stressful. We are on a thread talking about fictional characters, how silly is that in the grande scheme of things.

Two people can click instantly though. Future best friends for life and people who claim to be married to someone who was love at first sight and it was mutual on both sides. Relationships can start in all different ways and it's not as if they have to start on the best terms either.

In Aerith's defence, if there was something Cloud truly didn't want to do, he only had to put his foot down and give her a firm no. I know his head isn't right but I don't think it took away his ability to refuse to do something. It's also not fair to hold Aerith responsible for knowing things when we don't know what she knows. I did think she was quite pushy and a personal space invader but it didn't quite leave the same bad taste it my mouth. Aerith was also like this with others besides Cloud too: 'Hi Tifa, nice to meet you, I'm joining you on this misson ' and not to forget, the Ultimania(?) states that Cloud liked acting cool around her, or his cool side comes out around her, can't remember how they worded it and the one who only annoyed him was Jessie. ()So I think that's pretty telling in him being OK to go a long with her leading.

Completely agreed to just coming in here and having a chill chat about these three beautiful characters. There's no reason for heat, we should all be enjoying the remake to it's full potential.

@Final_Heaven omg, cloti and Aerith's beautiful face in one post, thank you so much! <3

 

[Cat on Mars]

It's also not fair to hold Aerith responsible for knowing things when we don't know what she knows.

The fandom has been doing exactly that with Tifa for ages, tho.
Now, I don't hear any outcry about it with the Remake. Interesting, huh?

 

[Yumelinh]

It's funny because in English Cloud's VA comes off as very suave when he says it, but in Japanese he hesitates a bit, so it's a bit more awkwardly cute. I know in the Ultimania they said they wanted to show him trying to flirt and kind of tripping up, but even when he trips up he still manages to make Tifa's day. It's sweet.

Funny how always interpreted Tifa biting her lips in that scene was to hold a laugh at how awkward cute he was being at his failed attempted to flirt, can't believe Ultimania kinda supported this

can't remember how they worded it and the one who only annoyed him was Jessie. ()

I don't think he was truly annoyed with Jessie, either. He just didn't know how to respond to her implications and it truly showed

By the time he goes to that upper plate mission with the avalanche trio, he was already caring a lot about her. At least that's how I interpreted his "It's...just another job..." bf the mission like he was trying to convince himself he wasn't agreeing to do it out of good faith ( but he was bc Cloud, you're such a softie!! ). Jessie was probably the first one he got close out the avalanche trio.

 

[Graymouse]

And going by Aerith's resolution, if we want to believe her, she's connecting to those aspects of him that are fake.

This is what I mean, isn't this a bit narcissistic of her to say this? or at a minimum very presumptuous. Especially saying that to Cloud to whom she has only known for a few days?

As I have said before, if someone said that to me it would instantly bring up a red flag. To me that is a instant friendzone. I would end it right then and then with that person after they say that to me. To me, this is not romantic at all. It is a put off. But, again this is my opinion.

 

[Ruri]

The fandom has been doing exactly that with Tifa for ages, tho.
Now, I don't hear any outcry about it with the Remake. Interesting, huh?

The remake has certainly made things awkward for that certain Tifa argument. Ah well, or I could just phrase it as the double standards are coming out of the woodwork.

 

[minami758]

The fandom has been doing exactly that with Tifa for ages, tho.
Now, I don't hear any outcry about it with the Remake. Interesting, huh?

“Tifa the Liar” was something popular to call her amongst those who hated her. Always left a bad taste in my mouth.

Any Tifa-hate leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Often reeks of misogyny.

(This isn’t to say constructive criticism of her character is unwarranted, just that Tifa’s actions have always been put under a magnifying glass when in comparison to all other characters in FF7.)

 

[Graymouse]

“Tifa the Liar” was something popular to call her amongst those who hated her. Always left a bad taste in my mouth.

Any Tifa-hate leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Often reeks of misogyny.

I never understood the hate for all those years. I for the most part ignore it. It is funny like others have said, it is a different story when the shoe is on the other foot. How soon does one forget their own transgressions when they accuse the other side of doing what they themselves are doing.

I find it silly.

 

[Cat on Mars]

This is what I mean, isn't this a bit narcissistic of her to say this? or at a minimum very presumptuous. Especially saying that to Cloud to whom she has only known for a few days?

As I have said before, if someone said that to me it would instantly bring up a red flag. To me that is a instant friendzone. I would end it right then and then with that person after they say that to me. To me, this is not romantic at all. It is a put off. But, again this is my opinion.

I understand what the Devs were trying to convey, but it always sounds presumptuous. Like, there were other ways of advising Cloud to not get too attached to her, probably?
I'm not going to lie, I ended a relationship shortly after a "telling this story to our grandsons" casual comment. I don't like presuptuous people, they piss me off. So I get you.

The remake has certainly made things awkward for that certain Tifa argument. Ah well, or I could just phrase it as the double standards are coming out of the woodwork.

Same shit double standards, another game.

“Tifa the Liar” was something popular to call her amongst those who hated her. Always left a bad taste in my mouth.
Any Tifa-hate leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Often reeks of misogyny.

And often it boils down to simple, regular, run-of-the-mill misogyny. "Look! She's hot and she isn't ashamed of her body!" "Burn the witch!"

No kidding, I remember a dude saying that he didn't want her daughter to see Tifa's design for the Remake. Why, you ask? Because Tifa's figure could give her daughter body image issues! And I was like, dude, some girls have big boobs. What kind of message are you sending to your daughter? That having big boobs is bad and inmoral and she should cover herself or else she's a dirty whore?
Yeah, that was concern trolling at his finest and not misogynist at all.
Oh, and he was a "feminist ally".

And I bet it was just a performance crafted to hide the fact that he fapped to Tifa porn for years.

But you know, I've started to enjoy the hate. I love how a fictional character makes everyone show their true colors, their insecurities and their fears!
Tifa is so damn powerful.

 

[Yumelinh]

I came to "get used" at how a part of the fandom tended to set such a high standard for Tifa to meet if she wanted her actions to be treated with good faith something that even characters like Sephiroth didn't need to that much but over the years the love for her character grew a lot and so this part of the fandom was shut out...well, most of it.

Same with C/T, the standards they have to meet to be considered canon are so stupidly high that they could probably be popping babies of their own right now, and people would still say 'so what? they just wanted a baby! This doesn't mean they are together!".

I'm so glad Remake seems to be working in a way that left no room for this type of interpretation for any character, really.

 

[Odysseus]

So would people who are anti-Tifa be called "Antifa?"

 

[Cat on Mars]

So would people who are anti-Tifa be called "Antifa?"

 

[Graymouse]

So would people who are anti-Tifa be called "Antifa?"

Yeah, I have seen that mentioned on Twitter a couple of times. Sad, most were Cloud X Tifa fans.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I came to "get used" at how a part of the fandom tended to set such a high standard for Tifa to meet if she wanted her actions to be treated with good fate, something that even characters like Sephiroth didn't need to that much but over the years the love for her character grew a lot and so this part of the fandom was shut out...well, most of it.

Same with C/T, the standards they have to meet to be considered canon are so stupidly high that they could probably be popping babies of their own right now, and people would still say 'so what? they just wanted a baby! This doesn't mean they are together!".

I'm so glad Remake seems to be working in a way that left no room for this type of interpretation for any character, really.

If Cloud and Tifa ever had sex, he was clearly thinking of Aerith the whole time and might have called out her name.

Also Tifa was infertile but Cloud already knew that because he can only allow himself to make babies with Aerith so they dug up Aerith's corpse and used her eggs to implant in Tifa's womb.

So they're really Cloud and Aerith's babies.

Oh and Tifa gets drunk every night wishing she was Aerith and Cloud goes to sleep in Aerith's church, his Promised Land, and where he truly belongs because he will never be allowed to move on.

In fact, he jerks off to Aerith's gravestone every chance he gets because it's better than sex with Tifa.

 

[Cat on Mars]

@Final_Heaven Ody was faster than you but you get some recognition too.

 

[Graymouse]

One Cloud X Aerith argument that I always found hilarious when it is mentioned. Is the argument against the Zack and Aerith pairing, It is when Aerith says "Look Forward, Not backwards." Those very words are detrimental to the CLoud X Aerith pairing. Without you ever realizing it you are discrediting your own argument.

 

[Cat on Mars]

One Cloud X Aerith argument that I always found hilarious when it is mentioned. Is the argument against the Zack and Aerith pairing, It is when Aerith says "Look Forward, Not backwards." Those very words are detrimental to the CLoud X Aerith pairing. Without you ever realizing it you are discrediting your own argument.

Zack? Who's Zack? -A Clerith memoir