SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[looneymoon]

the LTD section is truly the Wall Market of these forums

 

[Odysseus]

But wait! In the end, Meteor was not only stopped by Holy, but also by the lifestream where Aerith, Zack and Sephiroth reside.

Which can only mean one thing: the ending shot of meteor with holy and the lifestream is nothing but symbolism of a giant SCATZ orgy!!! The fact that Holy is there with the orgy is to signify that this is most definitely a--- wait for it---- HOLY FUCK!!!

No wonder the screen goes white.

 

[Cat on Mars]

the LTD section is truly the Wall Market of these forums

I'm a smut peddler, what did you expect?

 

[Graymouse]

To get back on topic before the Mod hammer comes down again. Tifa is the best girl ever for Cloud in the Remake.

 

[looneymoon]

are rules in effect if mods are asleep?

 

[Master Bates]

the LTD section is truly the Wall Market of brilliant ideas in these forums

Fixx'd.

 

[Lex]

Get back to serious discussion or I'll shut this thread

 

[Odysseus]

Oh snap it's the fuzz. ACT NATURAL.

Ah yes Tifa is a good she is, Cloud is very luck-man. They good make pair. They are my boat.

<3<3<3 X <3<3<3​

 

[Cat on Mars]

>LTD thread
>Serious discussion
Pick one.


Okay, fiiine.
I wonder what will happen with the Golden Saucer date this time, because it's bound to be the next point of conflict in the LTD. I think they will do something similar to that scene at night in the Remake and you'll get different options based on arbitrary decisions or missions completed/success rates (so almost random, for some extra flavor).
Now I talk about the Gold Saucer...
What role has Caith Sith in the LTD? Discuss.

are rules in effect if mods are asleep?

They ban you when they see you've been shitting up this thread with posts about World War History.

 

[Graymouse]

are rules in effect if mods are asleep?

Yeah, that doesn't matter. Cos' when they wake up, they get you!

>LTD thread
>Serious discussion
Pick one.

View attachment 6457
Okay, fiiine.
I wonder what will happen with the Golden Saucer date this time, because it's bound to be the next point of conflict in the LTD. I think they will do something similar to that scene at night in the Remake and you'll get different options based on arbitrary decisions or missions completed/success rates (so almost random, for some extra flavor).
Now I talk about the Gold Saucer...
What role has Caith Sith in the LTD? Discuss.



They ban you when they see you've been shitting up this thread with posts about World War History.

@Cat on Mars
The Gold Saucer, I think it going to be interesting. I mean Tifa and Cloud haven't had their date yet so there is that.
A couple of Cloud X Aertih's say that sitting in the park together before they see Tifa in the Chocobo carriage that they are on a date. So, I guess theirs have already happened? So payment is paid in full, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Odysseus]

I almost feel like the date will default to Aerith in the Remake, and the point based scene will be something else. LTD aside, Cloud and her need to have an intimate scene together around here, since Aerith leaves him forever soon enough after. Maybe they'll make a new scene for just her rather than mess with the date scene.

 

[Ruri]

GS: Cloud and Tifa are owed a date and if we still get a choice for it, I will give C/T the best date they ever had.

Cait Sith: That prediction.

 

[RhinoKart]

Well in part 1 we had potential future dates set up between Cloud and Aerith, Cloud and Tifa, and Aerith and Tifa....

Personally I'd love to send Tifa and Aerith on a date together.

 

[Cat on Mars]

The Gold Saucer, I think it going to be interesting. I mean Tifa and Cloud haven't had their date yet so there is that.

I was thinking the same thing, honestly. Tifa still owes Cloud a date even more than Aerith at this point in the Remake.
Oh, and Tifa owes Aerith a date too...

I almost feel like the date will default to Aerith in the Remake, and the point based scene will be something else. LTD aside, Cloud and her need to have an intimate scene together around here, since Aerith leaves him forever soon enough after. Maybe they'll make a new scene for just her rather than mess with the date scene.

I dunno. Months ago I would have said the same you did but they went and made that scene with Aerith, Tifa and Barret versions. So now I think they're going to do the same and make multiple versions of the date.
For what is worth, I have the opinion that all those scenes happened in the same night, so they can do the same with the GS date and you can see how Cloud has zero interest during Barret's date and subzero interest with Yuffie because he's tired, bored and just wants to go to sleep and it's been the 3rd or 4th time he has rode that goddamn gondola.

And only @Ruri answered my question about Caith Sith? Tsk, tsk. Don't diss my old keychain like that.

I like the idea that Caith Sith is a broken 8-ball that gives wrong answers only.

"Is Sephiroth around here?"
"Your lucky number is 7"

"Should I have cheesecake or ice-cream for dessert?"
"Not likely"

 

[Graymouse]

Asking Caith Sith anything would only result in wrong answers. What does Reeves know about love anyways? I mean he couldn't convince President Shinra not to drop the plate on Sector 7. I wouldn't go to him for any advice at all. Especially love. Sorry. Just saying.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Asking Caith Sith anything would only result in wrong answers. What does Reeves know about love anyways? I mean he couldn't convince President Shinra not to drop the plate on Sector 7. I wouldn't go to him for advice at all. Sorry. Just saying.

The guy built a robot cat because he doesn't have real friends.
The guy built a robot cat that makes useless predictions because nobody listens to his advice.
The guy built a robot cat so he could watch his parents have sex in the OG.
I don't know what to think about Reeve at all.

 

[Odysseus]

I dunno. I would have said the same months ago, but they went and made that scene with Aerith, Tifa and Barret versions. So now I think they're going to do the same.
For what is worth, I have the opinion that all those scenes happened in the same night, so they can do the same with the GS date and you can see how Cloud has zero interest during Barret's date and subzero interest with Yuffie because he's tired, bored and just wants to go to sleep and it's been the 3rd or 4th time he has rode that goddamn gondola.

I was just thinking that there were a number of things from the original that were made non-optional, such as the flower and drink. The date is probably too Iconic to change though. I wonder if the numbers will still be so heavily weighted in Aerith's favor though, getting Yuffie in the original is a nightmare! I like the idea that all the dates could happen, as was confirmed with the garden scene, but it'd be a little weird if the players didn't acknowledge Cloud being the leading man 3 times.

The guy built a robot cat beause he doesn't have real friends.
The guy built a robot cat that makes useless predictions because nobody listens to his advice.
The guy built a robot cat so he could watch his parents have sex in the OG.
I don't know what to think about Reeve at all.

The guy built a robot duplicate of himself piloted by the robot cat to serve as his body double in Dirge.
The guy is usually portrayed as the kind, mature member of the team, but he sure is fuckin weird.

 

[RhinoKart]

hmmmmm......okay wait I can make this connection......

So Caith Sith is controlled by Reeve. Reeve's mother lives in Midgar. Denzel stays with her for a while. Denzel is the love child of Aerith and Cloud. Denzel is the adopted child of Cloud and Tifa.

Caith Sith is a cloti shipper. He obviously only told that Clerith fortune to help Cloud realize he didn't want to marry Aerith.

Caith Sith also wears a red cap, the colour of Tifa's eyes, and a gold crown, the colour of Cloud's hair. Plus Tifa held a cat once and Cloud had a side quest searching for cats.

Edit: responding to Ody, I would say that Aerith's scene in remake is more plot relevant than the other 2, but she wasn't given any extra points this time. I think they might actually keep an equal point system. Also part of my understanding for pushing the gold saucer date was so players would have special scenes to fall in love with Aerith before she died. This time we have had an entire game to love her, so may be less needed.

 

[looneymoon]

Lex u narc

Maybe Reeve is pushing C/A because he's wingmanning for his buddy Rude.

 

[Graymouse]

Lex u narc

Maybe Reeve is pushing C/A because he's wingmanning for his buddy Rude.

Tifa doesn't even notice Rude or ever will notice. She is too star struck for Cloud. (have to keep the star thing going, you know ) Although, I have to thank him because he did save Tifa from getting shot by Reno.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Pffft Tifa doesn't even notice Cloud's interest, as obvious as it is! Do you think she would notice Rude's?
I love my girl but she's oblivious af to this stuff, pretty much like Cloud.

 

[Graymouse]

Pffft Tifa doesn't even notice Cloud's interest, as obvious as it is! Do you think she would notice Rude's?
I love my girl but she's oblivious af to this stuff, pretty much like Cloud.

What do you know, you haven't even played the Remake.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I'm poor but I drink and know things.
That's what I do.

 

[DutchDread]

How does the Remake confirm the opposite? Aerith already stated in the Remake that she wants to move "FORWARD" with her life.

Because people who have moved on don't need to try to convince themselves of the need to move on, while needing to take heavy sighs, and bringing down the conversation. Again, this is 5 years later, and she's not moved on, she says that she SHOULD move on. She knows intellectually that she should, that there is no point in living in the past, but that doesn't mean she is emotionally able to.

And furthermore, the ending scene with Zack is just a "full-circle" moment to show us how Cloud made it to Midgar. Since the Remake is a stand alone game, it is necessary to show us how Cloud made it to Midgar.

That's not a coherent thought, no one ever wondered how Cloud got to midgar while playing the game, he was just there, if anything, this would have made new players speculate on how he got there.

Regardless, Zack isn't in the love triangle. He's irrelevant. Aerith already stated in the Remake that she wants to move "FORWARD" with her life.

Zack isn't in the love triangle during FFVII because he's dead, the same reason Aerith isn't in it afterwards.

Right. By the time the Gold Saucer date hits, Aerith is officially over Zack. Did you even play the OG?

No she isn't, again, a girl trying to convince herself she's over someone, isn't over someone, you know when you're over someone? When you DON'T EVEN MENTION THEM. And you are again ignoring the IMPORTANT fact that the person she believes is helping her get over Zack, is Zacks living legacy. That's like thinking you're no longer addicted to smoking just because you're now addicted to nicotine patches. Aerith is still getting her fix of Zack.
Now does that PROVE she's not over Zack? no, although it makes it probably to the point where it's unreasonable not to think so (the coincidence would have to be MASSIVE), but it proves that Aeriths statements on the matter are fundamentally irrelevant, because she doesn't have the necessary information.

I know you are but what am I?

Dude, you started throwing around meaningless allegations, it's childish, and to make a point, I responded with the same childish accusation. By dragging it out you're just making it more childish. I've obviously played the game, act like an adult.

“Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaved like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.”
~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega; Square Enix

Aerith: “At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.”
~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled; Square Enix

Thank you for proving my point. Aerith is interested in Cloud because of Zack, the statements about her now preferring Cloud are meaningless BECAUSE CLOUD IS ACTING LIKE ZACK! Which means the person she like more than Zack....IS ZACK!

You are using a Cloti blog as your proof? LMAO.

No, I am using the things sources on that site as proof, what you are doing here is using a logical fallacy, argument from authority. It doesn't matter where the quote came from, it's either correct or it isn't.

You said only Tifa brings out the real Cloud's memories. Which isn't true. I have a quote that disproves you.

No you haven't, you've provided a quote that says that in general, Aerith helps him regain stuff, not that his memories come out around her or anything like that, the implications are completely different, Cloud isn't suddenly remembering his actual memories just because he's around Aerith. It's the things that happen that cause it, and she is one of the instigators of the things that are happening, that's different from "being yourself" around someone because of chemistry or some such nonsense.

To me, it is obvious that by making Aerith a romantic possibility for Cloud, they are heightening the impact of her death.

Correct, that is why the narrative up until her death portrays her as such. But that doesn't translate to plot, and the reason that the narrative AND plot both hint towards Aerith NOT having actually been a romantic love interest after her death, is because that ALSO makes the entire thing more tragic.

The Promised Land quote states the PLACE where Cloud awakens is his Promised Land. That place is Aerith's Church.

No, I will not accuse you of willfully lying here, but I know you know this is simply factually incorrect, I've pointed this out to you, and I KNOW others have. Clouds promised land is clearly, and unambiguously stated to be the world of the living, with his family, Tifa, the children, etc, in contrast to the world with Aerith, where he doesn't belong.
Stop making this claim, it is simply not true, everyone knows it's not true, and when you keep pretending it is you are eroding peoples good will and willingness to talk to you.

Yet somehow, one of the new accounts literally used the Final Heaven Tumblr blog as EVIDENCE. And there is also a new account by the name of Final Heaven. Weird coincidence.

Is it allowed to make these kinds of allegations?

are there even people who respect, or even like, both pairings?

Personally I don't, I think I might have liked it in another setting (like people say, a Disney movie), but I just don't think it works in FFVII, and over the years it's just become more and more annoying because of what it did to the game in general. In order to like the pairing I'd have to look at the pair in isolation, all the while forgetting how it caused flame wars, caused us to get little headway with the actual pairing, how it's been a detriment to the games and the fandom in general, and all of that together just makes it probably my least favorite ship (since arguably Sakura and Naruto).
If I just looked at the two personality wise and looks wise and forget everything I know about their stories, but just look at, perhaps a drawing of them together, I can think it's cute. But that doesn't really say much.
Overall I just think that the romantic aspect of the whole Cloud and Aerith thing is the worst part of FFVII, it just feels shoved in there unnaturally by fans to the detriment of the story and everything else.

i think as people have mentioned, the whole star crossed lover thing is just so appealing to me. the magic flower girl and stoic hero cliche hits all the sweet spots

Star crossed lovers doesn't apply to Cloud and Aerith though, It applies to Cloud and Tifa. Aerith and Cloud weren't ripped apart by unusual circumstances, they got brought together by unusual circumstances. If we look at it in terms of destiny or whatever, then Aerith and Cloud were constantly pushed together, only to be ripped apart at the end, while Cloud and Tifa were constantly pushed apart, while finding each other in the end.


The amount of unlikely stuff that needed to happen for Cloud and Aerith to even be put in a position where they would meet and get interested in each other is astronomical. First, Aerith has to meet and fall in love with Zack, a soldier first class. Then that same soldier needed to become friends with Cloud, who needed to somehow have a traumatic experience that made him act as if he were Zack, then during that brief point in time where Cloud wasn't himself he had to randomly fall through his best friends ex's chuch roof like he had done, coincidentally while the turks were after her.
Then things have to transpire in such a way that Aerith and Cloud both have to go after Sephiroth, etc etc etc.

That might appear romantic in disney setting, but when we add in the element of a love triangle, it makes her less likable than the other girl, who is seemingly just getting screwed by the universe left, right, and center.

It's these advantages that gives Aerith a chance with Cloud, and think about Tifa here for a moment, she is in a love triangle where literally the guy whose love she's competing for is traumatized by his past with you, and is living the fantasy of being the other girls ex boyfriend.....

The only reason Aerith has a chance, is because Tifa is constantly being ripped away from Cloud, Cloud and Tifa are constantly orbiting around each other until they finally come together in the end, which is what makes their eventual union so satisfying, because it was so hard fought. Because both had to wait for it their entire lives.

Cloud wants Tifa but can't get Close to her because of her friends, Tries to save her in the mountains, blamed for her injuries, leaves to become a Soldier for her, now she gets a crush on him, but he's not there, queue them orbiting around each other.
Cloud returns, but can't be With Tifa because he's ashamed and doesn't know Tifa has a crush on him, Tifa is looking for Cloud, but can't find him because he's hiding. Cloud makes good on his promise and saves Tifa from Sephiroth, but still he can't be her hero because he gets ripped away from her and loses his memory of this entire shared moment. She doesn't even know he was there.
So finally they meet again, but damn, no relationship can happen since Clouds mind is soo messed up that he's pretending to be someone else. They start getting a bit closer again but DAMNIT, the dude falls through a church roof into the flower bed of the girlfriend of the dude he's pretending to be!
Great, another girl, another obstacle between Cloud and Tifa. Even worse, Tifa has the bad luck of literally being a symbol and potential reminder of the past that Cloud is trying to run away from, while this new girl, who is a freaking flirty ancient magical being that talks to flowers!, is literally the stereotypical example of the love interest of the hero archetype that Cloud is trying to be! PLUS, his fake personas EX!!!

I can only imagine Tifa going ".....you gotta be freaking kidding me". Still though, she stays by his side, she doesn't give up.
Then even after Aerith dies they are still being driven apart by Clouds fake persona, and guilt.

Aerith and Cloud aren't star crossed lovers, they didn't have obstacles, literally everything went their way until Sephiroth did the world a favor and proved that a sword can write a better story.

To me, the two people being pushed together ending up together is boring, and the two people getting pushed away from each other equally so, what's the story there? There is none.
But Tifa and Cloud getting happiness together after a lifetime of being shafted by the universe? Yes please.
The beauty of Cloud and Aerith's story is that despite everything pushing them towards each other, they were ultimately not meant to be, while the beauty of Cloud and Tifa is that despite everything going against them, they inevitably were.


If you want sappy descriptions, how about the boy who tried to become a soldier to capture the heart of the gentle girl next door? Sappy descriptions are easy The difference is that with Cloud and Tifa, that sweet sappy story gets more substance. The sweet girl next door taught herself martial arts after the boys hero burned down her town and killed her family, the boy in turn got experimented on until he forgot his love for her in turned into the actual stoic soldier he wanted to be, and then that very fake persona, made to impress her, instead ironically keeps them apart.

The problem with the Aerith and Cloud Sappy description....is that it really doesn't get much deeper.

Cloud and Aerith are adorable together! Their relationship is just cute all the way around.

They hit all your usual Disneyish romance plot points that It's impossible not to fall for if you grew up watching these types of movies. Plus, they have the good ole drama, and oh boy it serves.

I think I mentioned it here ( or in the Cloti thread?) that the only reason I'm not a multi shipper myself is Cloud's lacks of true agency when their relationship was flourishing, it bothers me, but I tend to never bring this up in any general discussion or hold it against them because I understand that this is a very personal reason and that the relationship between them developed out of good intentions. In short, they are really good!

As for Cloti, I just love the whole idea that comes with it.

I know I have brought this up many times here, but I just LOVE how FFVII subverts all your expectations.

To begin this story w/ your usual stoic hero, and his flowery lady, and the usual dreamland romance, only for halfway through the story to have everything shattered. Your lady dies too soon and too sudden and so there goes your perfect romance, and if that wasn't bad enough turns out your stoic hero is nothing more than your "3rd NPC from the left" whose name you wouldn't even remember in your "usual game". You're stuck with these...ordinary people with ordinary relationships to save the whole world, but that's exactly what made this game out of ordinary at that time. It was simply brilliant, IMO.

As for Tifa, she was always there, kinda in the background when it came to romance, always watching, helping, caring, so when it turned out she was the main love interest it felt like when the second lead that everyone was rooting for in a shoujo wins, actually.... that's exactly what happened, lol. It also serves as such a clean-cut between 'fake' and 'true' Cloud. This Cloud right here has agency, and a person he loves, who just happens to be the person that was at his side at all times.

And honestly? That what pains me the most when it comes to Remake. They will never be able to replicate this. This feeling of having your mind completely blown over and over again like this. But times are different now, and I think they quite aware of what they can't achieve, so they're trying new things, new ways, and I'm okay with that ( even if I don't agree with some of these "new things" that are happening...).

That said, I think Cloti is an "earned" ship. It was certainly not much popular when OG first came out for obvious reasons, but it earned its fanbase thought the years the more people delved into their relationship. Also, I think the older you get the more you tend to appreciate how much their relationship is rooted in companionship and silently understanding. At least, that's how it was for me.

That was really well put.

I am truly sorry but in the Remake, I found Aerith to be annoying as hell. I didn't really like her personality. I felt that she was really pushy and kinda forceful to Cloud. It was not cute. On several occasions she made Cloud do things that he really didn't want to do. I found her a bit over bearing. She of all people should know that Cloud isn't right in the head. It is quite manipulative in all honestly. I felt no connection between the two, how could there be when they just meet days ago. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

But this is just my opinion. I know that others might enjoy this behavior and I don't mind that they do. I don't like it because it seems like the characters "chemistry is forced" and it is not cute to me at all. I can only control what I like and I am not here to convert one ship to the other or vice versa. I am not here for that.

I respect others point of view on this, some people might agree, other might not. I am here to read other people opinions and view on the LTD and if it so happens that we agree on some things, that is good. If we don't that is good also. Let's discuss our differences and have fun doing it.

The LTD should never be stressful. We are on a thread talking about fictional characters, how silly is that in the grande scheme of things.

Yeah, she also bothered me a bit. Especially when getting back to sector 7, Cloud was VERY clear about needing to get back to sector 7, but Aerith kept pressuring and guilt tripping him into delaying his departure when Cloud was obviously uncomfortable about it. This was especially aggravating to me when going through the collapsed highway, when Aerith said she new a safer road my first reaction was "WHAT!? Then why didn't we take that road in the first place? What part of 'I need to get back to sector 7, didn't you understand?'". I was under the presumption that the collapsed highway was a better road, but just going through wallmarket was both quicker and safer and superior in all ways.

In Aerith's defence, if there was something Cloud truly didn't want to do, he only had to put his foot down and give her a firm no

Yeah, that argument really doesn't sit well with me. I've heard that line before and it's not a good thing. Not everyone is good at outright saying no to people, when people are being clear that they don't want to do something, you shouldn't pressure them into it. Cloud was imo very adamant about getting back to sector 7, said it repeatedly, but Aerith simply ignored him or pressured him into complying. I felt really uncomfortable about it.

One Cloud X Aerith argument that I always found hilarious when it is mentioned. Is the argument against the Zack and Aerith pairing, It is when Aerith says "Look Forward, Not backwards." Those very words are detrimental to the CLoud X Aerith pairing. Without you ever realizing it you are discrediting your own argument.

Yeah, I've noticed that one before and it really stumps me. Either we are moving on, which case Cloud should also move on from the girl he knew for a week, or we are not moving on, in which case Aerith shouldn't move on from Zack.

For some reason they only like defending moving on when it's from Zack, even though that was a 2 year relationship that Aerith wasn't over 5 years later, and Cloud/Aerith was a 1 week thing for which he felt nothing as far as we know but guilt 2 years later.

 

[minami758]

Awww, I missed all the shitposting.

Re: Cait Sith, I'm not a betting person, but I am willing to bet that Cait Sith's fortune for Cloud/Aerith gets removed in the next installment. Given the way things are going now — "we're changing fate!!" — fortunes don't really have a place in the Remake, or at least have even less relevance than in the OG. Also like others said, Aerith seems less interested in a romance with Cloud at the moment and more preoccupied with her duty as a Cetra. That might change, but I don't really know how they'd do it without regressing her character to some extent.

Re: Aerith's behavior, if we want to be fair, we should see where she's coming from even if we don't agree with her actions. Some of Aerith's antics to keep Cloud around rubbed me the wrong way as well, but I understand her reasoning if I put myself in her shoes. Here's this dude who fell into her church exactly the same way as her ex-boyfriend did, (is Zack even her ex? As far as I know they never broke up,) he's a First-Class SOLDIER, and they met briefly before where he saved her from the Whispers.

To Aerith, who at this point is still clearly hung up on Zack, this is the jackpot — she has a chance to spend more time with this SOLDIER who potentially knows Zack and kind of reminds her of him. She can't come straight out and say, "do you know this man named Zack Fair who disappeared 5 years ago and is my first love?" so instead she devises ways to keep Cloud around and get to the point where she can ask that question without it coming out of nowhere.

So she begins to recreate the experiences she had with Zack with Cloud — "one date," flower picking, "I want to spend more time with you." At the same time, this Aerith also somehow knows certain things about the future, so she can probably sense that Cloud has some larger role to play in the fate of the Planet. Then she asks Cloud if he knows Zack, but she doesn't get the answer she wanted. She tells Cloud she must be bumming him out, but she's actually bumming herself out.

And at this point she's already attached. Aerith was a lonely kid; she probably didn't have many close friends as a child, so she latches herself onto Cloud (not to mention Tifa) when she meets them. So, I get it. I don't really like how she goes about it (i.e. putting obstacles in her house so Cloud can't leave I failed this minigame so many times) but, I get it.

Re: Gold Saucer, Aerith and Cloud have already had their date, no? In the game there's a point where Cloud's like, "I wanna get paid" and Aerith's like, "you're getting paid right now." So does that mean the only owed dates are Aerith/Tifa and Cloud/Tifa?