SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yumelinh]

If Aerith is important you should expect Square won't treat her relationships as fungible or disposable. Particularly lucrative iconic ones. Especially after the bulk of Cloud's character development coinciding with his failures to keep his distance from her.

Would you mind to elaborate more on this? Is this still that topic about Aerith's importance to the plot = Aerith is the main romantic interest?

Btw, this is my take of LTD in the FF7 Remake from Aerith's perspective:

I think FF7R didn’t portray Aerith in denial. English directly translated “The first guy I ever loved.” This line is the same as OG in JP when it was translated as “My first boyfriend.” But, the line that they weren't serious is removed. I would love to view Aerith is grieving his death, CC portrayed her sensing his death and it’s relevant to the scene kid Aerith sensed the death of Elmyra’s husband.

Now let’s see all CC references. Aerith’s line about one date is the same as OG in JP, but FF7R shows her gesture the same as Zack’s. She also asked if Cloud had SOLDIER’s friend or war buddies. The kids in Sector 5 play with wooden buster sword. Cloud even yelled at Aerith to quit acting like she knew him (and the flower quest was supposed to be named "Crisis Core" but the staff decided not to use it because they didn't wanna hint Zack yet). In the morning, she stopped Cloud with “I want to spend more time” in JP the same as her 23 wishes for Zack. Then the whole playground’s dialogue when she reminiscence him; how she used to sell flower there (with Zack in CC, doesn't exist in OG), how she saw the mako eyes (which Zack made her blush).

Cloud, you’re Zack in her eyes! But this isn't a bad take since she's always set to see her first love in Cloud even in OG, and FF7R delivers it well.

After all of CC references since the church meeting above, I would love to view she knew she had to stop grieving for Zack with “Gotta move forward, not back” line; not because he was ghosting her, the emotion is different. She probably didn’t get the closure she wanted from Cloud, but she’s ready to move on, even ready to let go of Cloud returning to Sector 7, stop chasing Zack’s shadow in him, might not see him again… before Tifa come to the scene. Then in the entire Wall Market chapter ‘til the optional dream sequence, she never views Cloud as Zack’s shadow anymore. Don’t get me wrong, still, she eventually had a good feeling towards Cloud as himself and embraced it all—the times she spent with Cloud just in 2 days are real.

With this, I’m not sure they would keep the same line in Gold Saucer date when she told Cloud, “You were different, I want to meet the real you” in OG. It has been delivered in the optional dream sequence before they rescued Aerith “Don't fall in love with me, even if you do, it’s not real/your imagination.” LTD seems to have been ended here. We didn't see any CxA moment after the trio met her in Shinra HQ. The ‘famous’ cell dialogue about ‘date & bodyguard’ that left Tifa jealous doesn’t exist, instead, we get many Aerith/Tifa moments started from in her room.

Then her line to “gotta move forward” is surprisingly contradicted with FF7R ending, when she stopped walked forward to grieve once again as Zack passing her by (her line “I hate the sky” in JP confirmed about him taken away by the sky, the metaphor of CC ending with Zack's soul soar to the sky/heaven).

Will we see how she’s trying to move on again into Cloud so the Gold Saucer’s date lines would be relevant again? That LTD would be revived again? Or will we see how her feeling is never changed that she presumably knows she would meet Zack again, either in life (the destiny crossroad) or in death (she knew her fate)? Remember, Aerith has sensed his last stand in highway. I think, her line of changing destiny including her awareness that it also can alter Zack’s fate as well. From her last line in Midgar outskirt, the Zack in her timeline is still dead but….

…we don’t know about it for now.
But we can't take Zack out of a picture from the LTD in the remake, unlike OG.

wow, this was an interesting read.

While there are a few things I don't fully agree here and there ( especially that the LTD is over since I don't think it will be 'killed' anytime soon). I do think you onto something here, especially when it comes to Aerith's character to how she was portrayed in the Remake

As for her resolution scene in chapter 14, I found a really good text about this on Tumblr that I'd like to share:

Spoiler

original text by magos-dominus on tumblr

The whole variable-scene scenario in Chapter 14 is a ludic reference to the Gold Saucer date sequence in the OG, and the function of the Cloud + Aerith scene here in REMAKE is the same as it was there. Which is both fascinating as a character piece and a notable clue as to where we’re going with both her character and their shared dynamic this time around.

Cloud and Aerith have perpendicular character arcs, and their OG Gold Saucer date is their point of intersection. Moving it forward by a full-third of the story has... implications.

+++ OPEN SPOILERS FOR FFVII (1997) AND FFVII REMAKE +++

If this were a more traditional fantasy story, in the Campbellian sense, it would be Aerith, not Cloud, as our tale’s protagonist. She’s the Chosen One, in a very archetypal sense. An ordinary girl with a supernatural heritage, heir to a lost civilization, victimized and left orphaned by the machinations of a corrupt empire that seeks to control her. The one thing she lacks, however, is a proper mentor.

This is an interesting decision, but one that grapples with Aerith’s biggest insecurities. She is an incredibly isolated character, and much of her character growth hinges around grappling with the fact that she is the last of the Ancients. There is no one left to guide her on her journey of self-discovery but herself. However, she isn’t that heroic figure at the start of the OG, or even in REMAKE. She’s a young, headstrong, independent woman who enjoys her life but doesn’t know what more she wants out of it. She’s still in that larval stage of the Hero’s Journey, one where she requires protection until she comes into her own.

Enter Cloud. While he doesn’t serve in any functional capacity as a mentor figure, he does serve that important role of keeping her safe. He’s her bodyguard, and bails her out of the reckless plans and dangerous situations her heroics get herself into before she has the strength to get out of them on her own, mostly during the Midgar arc. It’s an occupation that makes what’s to come all the more tragic.

She comes into her destiny slowly, starting with her arrival in Cosmo Canyon and discussion with the Elders there. More information about the Planet and the Ancients than she had ever known, and feeling more isolated that she was the only one than ever. The next big step is the Temple of the Ancients, where, finally, she meets with the legacy of her ancestors, hear’s their voices speak to her from the Lifestream, and both understands and accepts what being the Last Ancient means, and what protecting the Planet will require of her.

But between those two things there’s a cute date sequence.

One that ends on a fairly mysterious note. Aerith sees through Cloud’s distorted perceptions and confused memories to the real, broken version of himself. Given that she’s been the one pursuing him all game, because he’s a cute guy and she’s an aggressive flirt and/or she’s catching the feelings, Aerith stepping back and giving him space, ignoring her own wants or needs for his benefit clearly and without complaint, is a big step from the woman we met back in Sector 6 who steamrolled over him and ignored most of his concerns or desires.

It’s also at this point that Cloud stops being her protector.

Cloud stops being the leader of the group in this moment, as he buckles slowly under the weight of Sephiroth’s mental depredations as they’ve journeyed from Midgar, to the Gold Saucer, and back again.. He no longer knows who he is or what he wants. Aerith, on the other hand, who was in that same situation at the start, is now secure in her identity and confident in her path forward.

There’s a symbolic baton pass with the date, and therefor the completion of his bodyguard contract. The role of leader and protector is traded between them. Aerith leaves Cloud’s physical protection, and he enters her spiritual protection. The fact that she is a mandatory party member as soon as you leave the Gold Saucer, much as Cloud has been all game, serves to further reinforce that fact.

And then the Chosen One dies because she went ahead on her own to spare her friends the danger of a path she knew she needed to walk. Sephiroth makes the obvious, straightforward move of killing the one person who can stop his plans once she’s exposed, and Cloud and company are left reeling and directionless in the wake of the loss of their new leader.

That’s the Aerith Gainsborough present in her resolution scene and the one who leaves Midgar at the end of the game. Cloud remains our POV character but she has become our protagonist in all but name. One who now serves as a leader, mentor, and protector to Cloud and the rest of AVALANCHE, instead of the other way around, two continents and plenty of sub-plots ahead of schedule.

Given that her final, personal motivations were to spare her friends from harm, echoed in her ‘Don’t fall in love with me’ speech from her resolution, I’m interested to see where she’ll take us.

 

[Enthralled]

Someone asked for the Clerith interpretation of the Flower? Well it's pretty simple. And none of this really precludes it having an ulterior or double meaning for Tifa. The Buster Sword has significance to both Zack and Cloud after all.

But above all, I feel comfortable giving it greater weight to Aerith because it is a yellow flower. And those are like her thing. and always have been. And there is some line she says about following the yellow flowers which I can't help but feel is foreshadowing something.

Basically the game (at the moment) emphasizes the flower's importance to Aerith more than to Tifa. She's the one more strongly motivated to give it to Cloud, it's visually framed alongside her far more. It is actually their "reunion", particularly if Aerith is aware of the future, while Cloud and Tifa would have been reunited well in advance of this. Cloud conversely did not plan to give the flower to Tifa until she pointed it out. And while this isn't to say he doesn't care about her or whatever it is much less motivated. And there's the scene where he forgets or lies about giving it away for some reason, and when inspecting the flower himself he thinks of "that girl".

Aerith does smile when she sees the flower in the bar, and I suspect we'll known more about what that means in part 2 where this triangle is better explored, but it does "die" there. As Tifa herself seems to suggest, whatever reunion she and Cloud have had has been spoiled by fate. She's worried he might be overlooking her for Aerith and much worse Shinra took everything from her again. A good angsty angle for that relationship. I think the flower is useful for both couples but I'd not be surprised if its dual meaning for Tifa is more foreshadowing their later relationship and revealed feelings than actually having much symbolic meaning toward it. Also, at the moment.

My prediction: Yellow Flowers guide Tifa to Cloud in the lifestream. Subtly suggesting some "guardian angel" is looking out for them. It connects all these meanings together pretty well I think. It allows the flower to be a secret Cloud and Tifa thing without just snatching something always associated with Aerith.
And maybe Cloud finds himself in a yellow flower field or taking a yellow flower somewhere when the game is over, with the suggestion being it's some memorial to Aerith.

Thats an OG moment. Bring it up in the OG thread if you want to talk about it, but short version is i think you misunderstand my point if you think i was saying either one was hysterical.

Actually I was quoting/paraphrasing the sewer scene with Tifa this time around. @Ryushikaze. It's well beyond an OG moment if it makes its way into AC and informs her character now. And you kind of were saying she's just seeing something that isn't there and letting it get to her with your example (after claiming Cloud does have feelings for Aerith which would mean it is there). Whether you wanna class that as hysteria or not is beside the point.

Would you mind to elaborate more on this? Is this still that topic about Aerith's importance to the plot = Aerith is the main romantic interest?

Well I never said all that. Aerith is a romantic interest, and a more obviously important character, so people should not bet on a lessening of that relationship. Or that her importance to the plot is an irrelevant detail to her being written as important to our MC.

Whether she is the main romantic interest is a separate topic. I would say yes but largely just because I think the tropes she embodies are of greater consequence to the story like she is and so I argue Cloud's relationship to her is more "important". Others might say Cloud does end up with Tifa so she clearly is the main interest. I'd argue it's a largely semantic game. Does the person prioritize the destination or the journey I suppose.

Well, as long as it's just personal taste, I have no issue about it. You aren't as bad as those who clearly oppose and deny their relationship.

The reason people dislike that relationship from what I have heard is that it seems like Aerith had to have her personality changed to better complement Zack. And also it's not uncommon for someone to hear that criticism and then rationalize why 17 year old Aerith is so childlike and uber-naive. Which misses the point: if you have to rationalize something then that might be the issue.

And also as a real little kid we had Aerith being precocious and energetic and having the damn ribbon CC decided Zack gave to her.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Is this still that topic about Aerith's importance to the plot = Aerith is the main romantic interest?

Have you ever seen Harry Potter shippers in the wild, discussing how Harry and Hermione should totally get together because Ron and Ginny weren't as important or interesting? This is the same argument but even more disingenuous.
Edit:typo

 

[eleamaya]

Aerith's importance to the plot = Aerith is the main romantic interest

Anyway, in many shounen manga/anime, it's common where the main heroine isn't the main hero's love interest... and many shounen protagonists are slow-burn or clueless type. As @Cat on Mars said, Harry Potter even can fall to this category.

wow, this was an interesting read.

While there are a few things I don't fully agree here and there ( especially that the LTD is over since I don't think it will be 'killed' anytime soon). I do think you onto something here, especially when it comes to Aerith's character to how she was portrayed in the Remake.

As for her resolution scene in chapter 14, I found a really good text about this on Tumblr that I'd like to share:

Thanks, I like what is written there. Correction, I didn't mean to certain that LTD is over there, it just seemed that way to me. First, the line "even if you do, it's pointless". Second, no CxA moments after Cloud reunited with Aerith in Shinra HQ, instead we got Aerith & Tifa's friendship is strengthened (since train graveyard tbh, that wasn't explored well in OG). Third, Zack's factor in the ending. And with post-Midgar moment would be focused on her Cetra role and her building relationship with the party, not only Cloud; LTD is certainly toned down.

Gold Saucer would still happen, it's iconic, but the dialogue may be different. First, Aerith didn't bring up about "date" in the cell anymore to be paid in Gold Saucer, considered it's fulfilled. Second, she had expressed to view Cloud differently from Zack and aware Cloud is not himself... but of course, her desire to meet Real Cloud may still there. In OG, I always view it as her completely moving on (acceptance) since she was still in denial stage (in playground and Gongaga). I bet, even in FF7R Gongaga, she wouldn't say Zack ran off with another girl as well as the perception of they weren't serious have been removed.

Heck, I even want the option of Aerith & Tifa 'date' in gondola.

The reason people dislike that relationship from what I have heard is that Aerith had to have her personality changed to better complement Zack. And also it's not uncommon for someone to hear that criticism and then rationalize why 17 year old Aerith is so childlike and uber-naive. Which misses the point: if you have to rationalize something then that might be the issue.

And also as a real little kid, we had Aerith being precocious and energetic and having the damn ribbon CC decided Zack gave to her.

FF7R gives us a view on how Aerith felt isolated as kid, despite her nature being an extroverted kid who wanted to play with everyone. And for years, despite she still made a connection with people easily, she still didn't have any real close friend. Aerith is a weird kid due to her Cetra ability and it's reasonable as she was being treated by Shinra to keep using her ability. It slowly builds a shell for her and she desired to be normal human like everyone else. And then came Zack, who wasn't just her first real friend, but someone she came to love romantically; it should be not an issue if your boyfriend influences you a lot especially he brought new happiness she didn't experience before (I know in toxic relationship, if you are so blind to love someone, he still influences you a lot to make bad things... but Zerith isn't unhealthy). In CC, even Aerith can match Zack's flirty nature. She can reject him playfully, tease him, and joke with him too!

Aerith: You can beat monsters, you're so strong.
Zack: Those things weren't tough at all.
Aerith: Beats me!
Zack: Huh? Helloooo~

That's some dialogues at their first meeting when she took Zack around Sector 5 to show him a way to upper plate. Was it the same as her present character when she joked with Cloud if she can make it into SOLDIER? Or when she said Cloud was the weak one? Even in the present, she's always described as a pure heart. This thing never changed, whether she met Zack or not. She is still adorable and Tifa somehow looked more mature than her. You even could see her FF7R personality is drawn closer to her CC one, not OG as some aspects are split to Jessie.

After Zack was gone, then come Cloud and Tifa... and the rest of the party who deeply care to her.

About the ribbon, SE might retcon it back. But even if it isn't, still Nomura stated both Zack and her mother are dear to her heart; we can assume both persons gave her: one in Shinra lab (who knows it's torn after more than 7 years before she met Zack?), and one bought by Zack (since he saw her want ribbon in the market, indicated that she might've lost the old one given by her mom).

 

[Maidenofwar]

Probably goes FFVII and FFVIIR Aerith then Advent Children and KH series Aerith then CC for me.

 

[Graymouse]

Nothing much to really add here except that I thought it was hilarious when Cloud and Aerith were sitting in the park and Cloud sat a couple of spaces away from Aerith, and Aerith looked down and smirked then scooted closer to Cloud. The look on Clouds face was funny.

 

[Yumelinh]

Someone asked for the Clerith interpretation of the Flower? Well it's pretty simple. And none of this really precludes it having an ulterior or double meaning for Tifa. The Buster Sword has significance to both Zack and Cloud after all.

It was me, actually. We agree on this point.

But above all, I feel comfortable giving it greater weight to Aerith because it is a yellow flower. And those are like her thing. and always have been. And there is some line she says about following the yellow flowers which I can't help but feel is foreshadowing something.

Basically the game (at the moment) emphasizes the flower's importance to Aerith more than to Tifa. She's the one more strongly motivated to give it to Cloud, it's visually framed alongside her far more. It is actually their "reunion", particularly if Aerith is aware of the future, while Cloud and Tifa would have been reunited well in advance of this. Cloud conversely did not plan to give the flower to Tifa until she pointed it out. And while this isn't to say he doesn't care about her or whatever it is much less motivated. And there's the scene where he forgets or lies about giving it away for some reason, and when inspecting the flower himself he thinks of "that girl".

The point about that flower, to me, is that if you agree that it's a "reunion between lovers" for Cloud and Aerith then you should also agree that it has the same meaning for Cloud and Tifa as well.

It doesn't matter that he didn't intend to give it to her, but decided to after she pointed it out ( he didn't want Aerith's flower in the first place either, but it doesn't diminish their moment to you, right?) because he gave it to her in the end, fully knowing the meaning behind it.

And I don't think Cloud really gave much thought about the meaning when he gave it to Tifa btw, but for us, the players, it can serve as a foreshadowing of what's to come if the Remake follows whats happens in OG in the next installments.

In short, to me, this is SE trying to keep things "equal" to both girls in the end.

My prediction: Yellow Flowers guide Tifa to Cloud in the lifestream. Subtly suggesting some "guardian angel" is looking out for them. It connects all these meanings together pretty well I think. It allows the flower to be a secret Cloud and Tifa thing without just snatching something always associated with Aerith.
And maybe Cloud finds himself in a yellow flower field or taking a yellow flower somewhere when the game is over, with the suggestion being it's some memorial to Aerith.

That's a good prediction. Let's wait and see where SE is going with this flower theme this time.

btw, thanks for the explanation.

Well I never said all that. Aerith is a romantic interest, and a more obviously important character, so people should not bet on a lessening of that relationship. Or that her importance to the plot is an irrelevant detail to her being written as important to our MC.

Whether she is the main romantic interest is a separate topic. I would say yes but largely just because I think the tropes she embodies are of greater consequence to the story like she is and so I argue Cloud's relationship to her is more "important". Others might say Cloud does end up with Tifa so she clearly is the main interest. I'd argue it's a largely semantic game. Does the person prioritize the destination or the journey I suppose.

I think we having some communications problems here. You said you didn't say what I previously asked about, but then proceed to say the exact thing you say you didn't say the first place?

I may be wrong here, but that's how normally it sounds to me: If I say that Aerith wasn't the main love interest or that like...Cloud didn't love her in a romantic way, to you, it automatically means I'm downplaying her importance to the story or to Cloud, when if fact, what I'm trying to say is that Aerith importance to the story or to Cloud has nothing to do with if he loved her romantically or not.

But I think this is going nowhere really, should we agree to disagree?

 

[Maidenofwar]

Yumelinh you're so nice! *insert kitty hug emote* Thank you!, it's very much appreciated ?

 

[Ruri]

Hi, new here. The flower and its meaning is for both girls. It's Aerith's flower and it will always pertain to her more. In this instance, it does not matter.

It also does not matter whether if Tifa hadn't had asked about it she wouldn't have got it or not. That's steering the perspective of the scenario into a certain bias and picking out details that wasn't really intended. You can dig even deeper and ponder on the thought that Tifa didn't see and Cloud realized he was still wearing it. So what would he do with it? Lie down in bed and look at it thinking about the cute flower girl he ran into or make a beeline for Tifa to give to her? We can take this to all kinds of places. Once you start measuring stuff like this, the obvious message becomes invisible.

The developers decided this; on both first interactions with the girls, Aerith gave it to Cloud, Cloud gave it to Tifa. Aerith made it crystal clear what the flowers meaning was when she gave it. The remake started with a flower meaning lovers reunited being passed between from one love interest and to the other. There are two girls that are related to a flower described as love that Cloud owned for a short while. I think the message was pretty clear. Ok, story go.

 

[Yumelinh]

Thanks, I like what is written there. Correction, I didn't mean to certain that LTD is over there, it just seemed that way to me. First, the line "even if you do, it's pointless". Second, no CxA moments after Cloud reunited with Aerith in Shinra HQ, instead we got Aerith & Tifa's friendship is strengthened (since train graveyard tbh, that wasn't explored well in OG). Third, Zack's factor in the ending. And with post-Midgar moment would be focused on her Cetra role and her building relationship with the party, not only Cloud; LTD is certainly toned down.

Gold Saucer would still happen, it's iconic, but the dialogue may be different. First, Aerith didn't bring up about "date" in the cell anymore to be paid in Gold Saucer, considered it's fulfilled. Second, she had expressed to view Cloud differently from Zack and aware Cloud is not himself... but of course, her desire to meet Real Cloud may still there. In OG, I always view it as her completely moving on (acceptance) since she was still in denial stage (in playground and Gongaga). I bet, even in FF7R Gongaga, she wouldn't say Zack ran off with another girl as well as the perception of they weren't serious have been removed.

You`re onto something here really. It's just more my inability to believe that the devs will give us a way out of this LTD that easy than anything else. But then again, I never thought we would be discussing the possibility of Zack being alive, but here we are now, right? So who knows? Anything is possible.

Heck, I even want the option of Aerith & Tifa 'date' in gondola.

...YES PLS?!

About the ribbon, SE might retcon it back. But even if it isn't, still Nomura stated both Zack and her mother are dear to her heart; we can assume both persons gave her: one in Shinra lab (who knows it's torn after more than 7 years before she met Zack?), and one bought by Zack (since he saw her want ribbon in the market, indicated that she might've lost the old one given by her mom).

Yes, same here. I thought it was just two ribbons of the same color since this is such a small thing to be retconned ( when they actually went out of their ways to confirm much bigger things from CC).

Yumelinh you're so nice! *insert kitty hug emote* Thank you!, it's very much appreciated ?

awn, Idk what I did, but thank youuu

 

[Graymouse]

You would have to wonder why the Devs left out a lot of the Cloud and Aerith moments out of the Midgar section of the game. I know it has and should been argued that most of those moments were taking out because it kinda gave a sense of rivalry between Tifa and Aerith. In the remake I feel that those two seemed like they are BFF already. Which is a great change to be honest. Having two girls "fight" over one man who is kinda at this point in the game mentally ill is kinda bad form if you ask me.

 

[Ruri]

I'm just so glad the petty jealousy dialogue such as OG prison cell: oh tifa YOU WERE THERE? tifa: I SEE HOW IT IS has been removed and replaced with a budding friendship between two girls who instantly have each others backs. Can't praise/thank the devs enough for this one.

 

[Graymouse]

I'm just so glad the petty jealousy dialogue such as OG prison cell: oh tifa YOU WERE THERE? tifa: I SEE HOW IT IS has been removed and replaced with a budding friendship between two girls who instantly have each others backs. Can't praise/thank the devs enough for this one.

BTW, Welcome to the forums!

I couldn't agree more. I could be wrong in this but I think the Devs are setting up for a more tragic loss in the later parts of the game by building up TIfa and Aerith's relationship in this way. You could assume that their relationship is going to grow more in the next installments of the game.

 

[Yumelinh]

You would have to wonder why the Devs left out a lot of the Cloud and Aerith moments out of the Midgar section of the game. I know it has and should been argued that most of those moments were taking out because it kinda gave a sense of rivalry between Tifa and Aerith. In the remake I feel that those two seemed like they are BFF already. Which is a great change to be honest. Having two girls "fight" over one man who is kinda at this point in the game mentally ill is kinda bad form if you ask me.

I'm just so glad the petty jealousy dialogue such as OG prison cell: oh tifa YOU WERE THERE? tifa: I SEE HOW IT IS has been removed and replaced with a budding friendship between two girls who instantly have each others backs. Can't praise/thank the devs enough for this one.

All of this!! Which brings us to my fav point here that the "winning" ship out of FFVIIR part 1 isn't Clerith or Cloti...but Aerti!

But really, I'm so happy they got their relationship right this time and actually SHOWED us their friendship growing instead of just hinting at it like the OG did. Really one of the highlights of Part 01.

Here's hoping it helps people understand that you can ship Clerith or Cloti and still like and respect both girls in the end.

 

[Graymouse]

All of this!! Which brings us to my fav point here that the "winning" ship out of FFVIIR part 1 isn't Clerith or Cloti...but Aerti!

But really, I'm so happy they got their relationship right this time and actually SHOWED us their friendship growing instead of just hinting at it like the OG did. Really one of the highlights of Part 01.


Here's hoping it helps people understand that you can ship Clerith or Cloti and still like and respect both girls in the end.

I have a theory about why Tifa and Aerith relationship is better this time around and I might be a minority when I say this and I know it won't be a popular one especially on this thread.

I honestly don't think Aerith is romantically interested in Cloud this time around or maybe the better way of saying it is "not as interested" as she was in the OG. It seems like she has a mission to accomplish and she is focused on that. She knows a lot more than what she is saying, and even perhaps knows that some time in the future she will have to make a sacrifice (albeit she doesn't know what exactly) So Aerith has a very heavy heart, she know she is the last living Cetra and the responsibilities that entails. I feel above all else even personal interests, such as falling in love, having friends, or just having a "normal" everyday life ins't a part of that plan.

There are some times I feel Aerith kinda holds back a bit, quite a lot actually and other times where she down right out very flirtatious with Cloud but those scenes in my honest opinion are too far in between. I think when she is flirtatious it is more to tease Cloud because he is so uptight that if you stick a piece of coal up his ass you will have a diamond in a few days. (if you get this reference good for you! )

Just looking at the various non optional scenes with Tifa and Cloud, not all scenes are necessary romantic, but there are others that heavy imply sexual tension between the two. There are strong opinions out there that think SE is pushing Cloud more towards a Cloud X Tifa this time in the Remake.

This by no means diminishes Aerith at all, this actually, in my humble opinion strengthens the Heroine because it builds on her sense of duty as a dying race, The Cetra. The fact she accepts her fate, whatever that may be and in my opinion makes her the most unselfish character in the game.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is this the new LTD, then? Who did Tifa really love, Cloud or Aerith? Is she only with Cloud in AC because Aerith died? Because Aerith wanted her to be with Cloud?

If OG and Remake are indeed two separate timelines, and the Aerith in the Remake has travelled back from the future to thwart Sephiroth's attempts to undo the course of events in FFVII, then the OG LTD stands. You would expect their relationships in the Remake to be different.

 

[looneymoon]

Is this the new LTD, then? Who did Tifa really love, Cloud or Aerith? Is she only with Cloud in AC because Aerith died? Because Aerith wanted her to be with Cloud?

If OG and Remake are indeed two separate timelines, and the Aerith in the Remake has travelled back from the future to thwart Sephiroth's attempts to undo the course of events in FFVII, then the OG LTD stands. You would expect their relationships in the Remake to be different.

Cloud and Aerith find each other in the flower field in the WcDonald's AU

 

[Master Bates]

Cloud and Aerith find each other in the flower field in the WcDonald's AU

What kind of drinks do they serve at WcDonald's?

 

[eleamaya]

I honestly don't think Aerith is romantically interested in Cloud this time around or maybe the better way of saying it is "not as interested" as she was in the OG.
There are some times I feel Aerith kinda holds back a bit, quite a lot actually and other times where she downright out very flirtatious with Cloud but those scenes in my honest opinion are too far in between. I think when she is flirtatious it is more to tease Cloud because he is so uptight that if you stick a piece of coal up his ass you will have a diamond in a few days. (if you get this reference good for you! )

You have a point and I also analyzed yesterday. But let's analyze her monologue from FF’s 30th anniversary (official translation), then you'd know her feelings for Cloud:

(1) "I hate the sky, it carries away everyone Iove"
Confirmed by Nomura as this line is voiced up in FF7R ending. This is because the sky represents losing everyone she loved, including Zack, as CC ending depicts a scene of his spirit soaring to the sky / heaven with Angeal pick him up. Let's forget OG that depicted she's unaware of his death. Aerith is Cetra and she could sense it--CC showed us and it doesn't contradict her sensing Elmyra's husband passing away.

(2) "This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change--my feelings never change. I’m stuck.”
I think 'strange place' refers to the church. We know her house has flowers garden so why she still goes to the church (that leads her to meet Cloud again) if the flowers could bloom naturally without her care? One reason, she's stuck... her feeling lingers there, the place where she met Zack and he always visited her. Nomura stated in CC interviews at Dengeki, that Zack always headed straight to the church whenever something comes up.

(3) "That's it. I give up! I can't stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can't stand this!"
Honestly, all these lines aren't arranged by order and I don't know which the right order is. Is this line spoken up during months after Zack's death? Or, is it still last even after FF7R ending? The implication would be different.

(4) "Helloooo~ Wake up. It's almost morning."
Pretty clear. Both Zack and Cloud crashed into her church in the same way, talk in their sleep, and she wakes 'em up in the same way, too.

(5) "Don't step on the flower."
Pretty clear. Aerith scolded Zack, and Reno & Cloud when they are fighting.

(6) "Sometimes I see someone who has the same eye. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is?"
Pretty clear. FF7R change the playground scene different from OG, and this is an explicit reference from Crisis Core. JP lines are even the exact same words for words like when she stared at Zack's eyes. She even has asked Cloud in Sector 5 if he had any SOLDIER friend or war buddy.

(7) "I know goodbye will be hard. But when I think of meeting someone new, I still get so excited. It's cruel."
I think this is Aerith struggling with her feeling between Zack and Cloud. She knew she has to "Gotta move forwards, not back" as she stated in the playground, but it's so damn hard that she might have this motivation conflicted for so long even before meeting Cloud (Zack died 3 months before the first bomb mission). As I said before in the previous post, Aerith also stopped walking forward a while when Zack in another timeline passed her by. We knew in the future, she would meet more people... Yuffie, Vincent, Cid. Would she say goodbye again to Zack at that spot?

(8) "Stamp... Stamp! Guess, you're gone too."
We know that the Stamp in Zack's survival timeline has changed, but does her line refer to the old Stamp?

(9) "Things won't last forever. Sure, it's lonely. It's sad. But I can say "bye" with a smile, right?"
I guess this fits the narration in optional dream sequence, as well as the next dream in Gongaga that she goes to Forgotten Capital alone. Why Cloud? Because she doesn't say "bye" to Zack with a smile.

(10) "You came. Thank you, I'm glad. But you're already...."
I'm not sure about this. Does this represent the time she prays in Forgotten City that Cloud comes to her? But he's under Sephiroth's control? Or does this represent a future event in the next installment about her reunion with the Zack who survives and she knew he's supposed to be dead? Or does this refer to the optional dream sequence that she's aware Cloud isn't himself? Too many interpretations.

(11) "You're so far now. I'm so far from you. Oh, I'm rising. The sky is carrying me away. I can see you, you're crying. Don't cry, you'll make it rain."
Cloud gets a future vision and we saw he drops a single tear. But.... Is the line foreshadowing her death that would be different from OG? We know in OG, she's sunk down to the bottom of the lake in Forgotten Capital. But with all of these lines above correlated with FF7R, we'd probably get her death similar to Kadaj in AC... her spirit (like Zack) soar to the sky and both scenes are raining (although the Kadaj one is raining from Great Gospel as she heals geostigma around Edge). Her death should happen in the place where the sky can be clearly seen (whether it's clear blue or cloudy with rain), and Forgotten Capital doesn't fit the definition as it's surrounded by sleeping forest.

So..... is Aerith still interested romantically to Cloud? Seems not.

Is this the new LTD, then? Who did Tifa really love, Cloud or Aerith? Is she only with Cloud in AC because Aerith died? Because Aerith wanted her to be with Cloud?

If OG and Remake are indeed two separate timelines, and the Aerith in the Remake has travelled back from the future to thwart Sephiroth's attempts to undo the course of events in FFVII, then the OG LTD stands. You would expect their relationships in the Remake to be different.

I think Aerith's feeling and role are relevant to discuss how LTD would be handled in FF7R. In OG book (I forget if which Ultimania), in her profile, it's stated that she's interested in the love triangle between her, Tifa, and Cloud lol. But you see it doesn't seem that way in FF7R. Aerith & Tifa's friendship is strengthened, Aerith's feeling for Zack is also strengthened, her role that knowing more than she should know compared to OG is more important... so it can affect how she treats Cloud. Cloud doesn't seem to waver between two girls when the other one kinda toning it down, but it doesn't mean she would stop teasing him playfully nor he would stop caring for her.

So, yeah OG LTD stands as itself alone. I think the rest of the compilation follows / more relevant to how SE depicts the protagonists' relationship in FF7R. I don't think we can use Compilation to explain LTD in OG anymore.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Alright, looks like Barrett is the default choice for Resolution, good for him. Only time any girl gets any sort of clear and factual, numbers based advantage for anything is Aerith for the Sephiroth fight, not necessarily LTD related so I suppose you could argue it so.

Going to spam Clerith things-

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258405204514480130

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258422038529744897

 

[Enthralled]

Reminder that this is all about if we can say the writers use Cloud's relationships as narrative devices to draw the player's attention to someone (unless it's about Tifa specifically I imagine). Even though it applies to all his relationships, not just the romantic ones. Though it is a much bigger deal with the two heroines.

I mean, it's not a mystery to me. People on this page are desperately hoping the Love Triangle is already over (which does not help Tifa's ship btw, sucking out all the drama in the near-term) and so they take issue with me saying the game framing Aerith as the explicitly secondary protagonist makes that prediction unlikely. Not impossible but unlikely. Especially since the love triangle is really marketable.

Have you ever seen Harry Potter shippers in the wild, discussing how Harry and Hermione should totally get together because Ron and Ginny weren't as important or interesting? This is the same argument but even more disingenuous.
Edit:typo

Just ascribing motivations to me. You can't even repeat my argument (I mean, I never said Cloud and Tifa are not together or should not be together). This place is such an echo chamber you're still seething because I don't agree with you. But it's good to know other shippers live rent free in your head.

Your analogy is also terrible. Hermione and Harry never even had romantic undertones to their relationships, so using that angle to explore their relationship is not necessary or fruitful at all. They really were friends. Meanwhile Hermione and Ron would banter and bicker for fun like an old married couple. Which sounds like Cloud and Aerith to me... certainly much closer.

People here need to understand that I don't care what fandom baggage they have. It's not a license to be pointless.

Glad to know @Theozilla and @Yumelinh think my argument is disingenuous but do such a bad job at confronting that. "Agree to disagree" lol. Not that I really thought that stance was an honest one to begin with.

It was me, actually. We agree on this point.



The point about that flower, to me, is that if you agree that it's a "reunion between lovers" for Cloud and Aerith then you should also agree that it has the same meaning for Cloud and Tifa as well.

It doesn't matter that he didn't intend to give it to her, but decided to after she pointed it out ( he didn't want Aerith's flower in the first place either, but it doesn't diminish their moment to you, right?) because he gave it to her in the end, fully knowing the meaning behind it.

And I don't think Cloud really gave much thought about the meaning when he gave it to Tifa btw, but for us, the players, it can serve as a foreshadowing of what's to come if the Remake follows whats happens in OG in the next installments.

In short, to me, this is SE trying to keep things "equal" to both girls in the end.



That's a good prediction. Let's wait and see where SE is going with this flower theme this time.

btw, thanks for the explanation.



I think we having some communications problems here. You said you didn't say what I previously asked about, but then proceed to say the exact thing you say you didn't say the first place?

I may be wrong here, but that's how normally it sounds to me: If I say that Aerith wasn't the main love interest or that like...Cloud didn't love her in a romantic way, to you, it automatically means I'm downplaying her importance to the story or to Cloud, when if fact, what I'm trying to say is that Aerith importance to the story or to Cloud has nothing to do with if he loved her romantically or not.

But I think this is going nowhere really, should we agree to disagree?

The stuff about the flower is more or less identical to what I think on the important points so idc

I was tempted to just rephrase your point about love interests as "how come when I ask you X you say A, but when I bring up Y you say B?" You don't seem to get two separate questions are two separate questions and so an answer to one is not an answer to both. But I will elaborate further.

But this is why I get so tired of repeating myself. The argument I made before is simply not what you were ascribing to me. The fact that I might make a similar argument if you asked me something that was not the subject before is really not gonna change that. And I even said it's largely based on perspective toward the question rather than an ironclad position.

To get specific though, I was arguing Cloud's interest in Aerith is used to highlight her importance to the player. And knowing she will continue to be important makes it hard to imagine the devs will drop whatever drama or intrigue they could have with her and Cloud (which has always been romantic, not platonic). If you asked if I thought Aerith was the main love interest, which was not the argument we were having, then I would say yes and give my reasons.

And yes if you were to hypothetically argue Cloud didn't love her at all like that, not the same claim as her being a main love interest btw, you are downplaying her role. I don't see how that's controversial. It's arguing a subplot involving her is less impacting precisely where it concerns her.

I mean I don't even get how this would be missed by you. "what I'm trying to say is that Aerith importance to the story or to Cloud has nothing to do with if he loved her romantically or not." Yes it would. Whether he loves her or not is relevant to her importance to him. It makes her a bigger deal to him than just a dear friend would be.

This is rather strange for you to say because I often think people here want to say Cloud loving Aerith is groundless but know better. So they talk around it and try to subtly trivialize her relationship to him. I went from not being misunderstood at all to constantly misunderstood and bickered with for saying scenes where Aerith gets Cloud to do things against his nature are "shippy", and I don't think that was an honest exercise.

Anyway, as with Toriyama describing the dance battle as romantic or whatever, we have a composer describing a scene between Cloud and Aerith as "romantic"

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202005/07197062.html

"There is a scene where Cloud and Aerith walk while looking at the night sky in front of the Suzuki Cave Road, but it's a very romantic and nice atmosphere. "

The dance battle was passed over because we cannot KNOW it's about Aerith, the only character there Cloud could be attracted to, and who is about to flood her undergarments. So I suspect some will find a way to ignore this.

Anyway, in many shounen manga/anime, it's common where the main heroine isn't the main hero's love interest... and many shounen protagonists are slow-burn or clueless type. As @Cat on Mars said, Harry Potter even can fall to this category.


Thanks, I like what is written there. Correction, I didn't mean to certain that LTD is over there, it just seemed that way to me. First, the line "even if you do, it's pointless". Second, no CxA moments after Cloud reunited with Aerith in Shinra HQ, instead we got Aerith & Tifa's friendship is strengthened (since train graveyard tbh, that wasn't explored well in OG). Third, Zack's factor in the ending. And with post-Midgar moment would be focused on her Cetra role and her building relationship with the party, not only Cloud; LTD is certainly toned down.

Gold Saucer would still happen, it's iconic, but the dialogue may be different. First, Aerith didn't bring up about "date" in the cell anymore to be paid in Gold Saucer, considered it's fulfilled. Second, she had expressed to view Cloud differently from Zack and aware Cloud is not himself... but of course, her desire to meet Real Cloud may still there. In OG, I always view it as her completely moving on (acceptance) since she was still in denial stage (in playground and Gongaga). I bet, even in FF7R Gongaga, she wouldn't say Zack ran off with another girl as well as the perception of they weren't serious have been removed.

Heck, I even want the option of Aerith & Tifa 'date' in gondola.



FF7R gives us a view on how Aerith felt isolated as kid, despite her nature being an extroverted kid who wanted to play with everyone. And for years, despite she still made a connection with people easily, she still didn't have any real close friend. Aerith is a weird kid due to her Cetra ability and it's reasonable as she was being treated by Shinra to keep using her ability. It slowly builds a shell for her and she desired to be normal human like everyone else. And then came Zack, who wasn't just her first real friend, but someone she came to love romantically; it should be not an issue if your boyfriend influences you a lot especially he brought new happiness she didn't experience before (I know in toxic relationship, if you are so blind to love someone, he still influences you a lot to make bad things... but Zerith isn't unhealthy). In CC, even Aerith can match Zack's flirty nature. She can reject him playfully, tease him, and joke with him too!

Aerith: You can beat monsters, you're so strong.
Zack: Those things weren't tough at all.
Aerith: Beats me!
Zack: Huh? Helloooo~

That's some dialogues at their first meeting when she took Zack around Sector 5 to show him a way to upper plate. Was it the same as her present character when she joked with Cloud if she can make it into SOLDIER? Or when she said Cloud was the weak one? Even in the present, she's always described as a pure heart. This thing never changed, whether she met Zack or not. She is still adorable and Tifa somehow looked more mature than her. You even could see her FF7R personality is drawn closer to her CC one, not OG as some aspects are split to Jessie.

After Zack was gone, then come Cloud and Tifa... and the rest of the party who deeply care to her.

About the ribbon, SE might retcon it back. But even if it isn't, still Nomura stated both Zack and her mother are dear to her heart; we can assume both persons gave her: one in Shinra lab (who knows it's torn after more than 7 years before she met Zack?), and one bought by Zack (since he saw her want ribbon in the market, indicated that she might've lost the old one given by her mom).

I am just gonna say the clear inconsistency between chibi aerith and 17 year old aerith is probably just CC being inconsistent than an immensely esoteric commentary. This is interesting but I am too cynical to buy it at this juncture. Particularly since, while I thought Aerith might have been a lonely child as headcanon, we have absolutely no reason to think CC was written with this in mind at all. Maybe this works to bridge the two, and she had her sassy moments in CC but she was a very passive character in CC by comparison. Even toward her own life.

Everything else you said sounds silly. And I know its just how things seem to you but frankly it's beyond blinkered to me. "We did not get a Cloud and Aerith scene at the HQ" is super arbitrary. Along with everything else. Thinking they're gonna drop the LTD now, anti-climactically, for these reasons is wishful thinking. Particularly since so many of those "evidences" given are clearly not the final word but dramatic devices for later.

Some people were saying there'd be no Clerith in part 1 at all. Now (probably the same) people are saying Part 1 was the last of the clerith and it's "over" based on bad inferences which make for an anti-climactic resolution and deprive the writers of continuing drama or the kind of chatter they like to stoke about these games.
Really, part 2 is where one can expect Clerith-proper to "end". If this is indeed a remake we can expect to play out like the original then that should be the expectation

And it would make Cloti worse too if it's just about Tifa and Cloud not communicating until they do. That's boring. That time could be used exploring the second most important protagonist through Cloud and building tension between Cloud and Tifa to payoff later.

It also wastes an excellent romantic angle for those two. The OG did little with Cloud's heartbreak right after Aerith died, factoring that into how Tifa stays by his side and helps him would be great. But so many people who ship them don't notice that? This is why I am so comfortable saying this is unlikely, because it doesn't even help the other ship much. Which let's be honest is the basis for predicting it.

You would have to wonder why the Devs left out a lot of the Cloud and Aerith moments out of the Midgar section of the game. I know it has and should been argued that most of those moments were taking out because it kinda gave a sense of rivalry between Tifa and Aerith. In the remake I feel that those two seemed like they are BFF already. Which is a great change to be honest. Having two girls "fight" over one man who is kinda at this point in the game mentally ill is kinda bad form if you ask me.

I've said this, but not sure if I said here. And did they take out "a lot?"
I can only remember making the roof laugh much less pronounced and the jail cell scene not being very flirty at all, or even the same scene.

Alright, looks like Barrett is the default choice for Resolution, good for him. Only time any girl gets any sort of clear and factual, numbers based advantage for anything is Aerith for the Sephiroth fight, not necessarily LTD related so I suppose you could argue it so.

Going to spam Clerith things-

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258405204514480130

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258422038529744897

I am just gonna say if Tifa was favored then people would say "well she's just always by his side blah blah."
Really it's more about Aerith actually being the opposing force to Sephiroth. Rival species, rival materia, formerly written as siblings and brothers. One is Gast's natural born child, the other his "creation" in a cold experimental process. Very easy to cast these two specials as opposing forces.

But the banter is cute so that's nice.

I guess this was all from ultimania translations?

You have a point and I also analyzed yesterday. But let's analyze her monologue from FF’s 30th anniversary (official translation), then you'd know her feelings for Cloud:

(1) "I hate the sky, it carries away everyone Iove"
Confirmed by Nomura as this line is voiced up in FF7R ending. This is because the sky represents losing everyone she loved, including Zack, as CC ending depicts a scene of his spirit soaring to the sky / heaven with Angeal pick him up. Let's forget OG that depicted she's unaware of his death. Aerith is Cetra and she could sense it--CC showed us and it doesn't contradict her sensing Elmyra's husband passing away.

(2) "This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change--my feelings never change. I’m stuck.”
I think 'strange place' refers to the church. We know her house has flowers garden so why she still goes to the church (that leads her to meet Cloud again) if the flowers could bloom naturally without her care? One reason, she's stuck... her feeling lingers there, the place where she met Zack and he always visited her. Nomura stated in CC interviews at Dengeki, that Zack always headed straight to the church whenever something comes up.

(3) "That's it. I give up! I can't stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can't stand this!"
Honestly, all these lines aren't arranged by order and I don't know which the right order is. Is this line spoken up during months after Zack's death? Or, is it still last even after FF7R ending? The implication would be different.

(4) "Helloooo~ Wake up. It's almost morning."
Pretty clear. Both Zack and Cloud crashed into her church in the same way, talk in their sleep, and she wakes 'em up in the same way, too.

(5) "Don't step on the flower."
Pretty clear. Aerith scolded Zack, and Reno & Cloud when they are fighting.

(6) "Sometimes I see someone who has the same eye. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is?"
Pretty clear. FF7R change the playground scene different from OG, and this is an explicit reference from Crisis Core. JP lines are even the exact same words for words like when she stared at Zack's eyes. She even has asked Cloud in Sector 5 if he had any SOLDIER friend or war buddy.

(7) "I know goodbye will be hard. But when I think of meeting someone new, I still get so excited. It's cruel."
I think this is Aerith struggling with her feeling between Zack and Cloud. She knew she has to "Gotta move forwards, not back" as she stated in the playground, but it's so damn hard that she might have this motivation conflicted for so long even before meeting Cloud (Zack died 3 months before the first bomb mission). As I said before in the previous post, Aerith also stopped walking forward a while when Zack in another timeline passed her by. We knew in the future, she would meet more people... Yuffie, Vincent, Cid. Would she say goodbye again to Zack at that spot?

(8) "Stamp... Stamp! Guess, you're gone too."
We know that the Stamp in Zack's survival timeline has changed, but does her line refer to the old Stamp?

(9) "Things won't last forever. Sure, it's lonely. It's sad. But I can say "bye" with a smile, right?"
I guess this fits the narration in optional dream sequence, as well as the next dream in Gongaga that she goes to Forgotten Capital alone. Why Cloud? Because she doesn't say "bye" to Zack with a smile.

(10) "You came. Thank you, I'm glad. But you're already...."
I'm not sure about this. Does this represent the time she prays in Forgotten City that Cloud comes to her? But he's under Sephiroth's control? Or does this represent a future event in the next installment about her reunion with the Zack who survives and she knew he's supposed to be dead? Or does this refer to the optional dream sequence that she's aware Cloud isn't himself? Too many interpretations.

(11) "You're so far now. I'm so far from you. Oh, I'm rising. The sky is carrying me away. I can see you, you're crying. Don't cry, you'll make it rain."
Cloud gets a future vision and we saw he drops a single tear. But.... Is the line foreshadowing her death that would be different from OG? We know in OG, she's sunk down to the bottom of the lake in Forgotten Capital. But with all of these lines above correlated with FF7R, we'd probably get her death similar to Kadaj in AC... her spirit (like Zack) soar to the sky and both scenes are raining (although the Kadaj one is raining from Great Gospel as she heals geostigma around Edge). Her death should happen in the place where the sky can be clearly seen (whether it's clear blue or cloudy with rain), and Forgotten Capital doesn't fit the definition as it's surrounded by sleeping forest.

So..... is Aerith still interested romantically to Cloud? Seems not.



I think Aerith's feeling and role are relevant to discuss how LTD would be handled in FF7R. In OG book (I forget if which Ultimania), in her profile, it's stated that she's interested in the love triangle between her, Tifa, and Cloud lol. But you see it doesn't seem that way in FF7R. Aerith & Tifa's friendship is strengthened, Aerith's feeling for Zack is also strengthened, her role that knowing more than she should know compared to OG is more important... so it can affect how she treats Cloud. Cloud doesn't seem to waver between two girls when the other one kinda toning it down, but it doesn't mean she would stop teasing him playfully nor he would stop caring for her.

So, yeah OG LTD stands as itself alone. I think the rest of the compilation follows / more relevant to how SE depicts the protagonists' relationship in FF7R. I don't think we can use Compilation to explain LTD in OG anymore.

um, Aerith is clearly romantically interested in Cloud just from scenes in this remake... whether she allows herself to pursue him is what you're asking. Maybe she does not next game, maybe she has angst she works through. We will see. But desire itself is present.

 

[Sasseli]

I am glad that the Remake greatly reduced the rivalry between the two girls. It shows that friendship is much more important than jealousy over a guy. Wouldn't really fit into our times, anyway. And I don't think that a character's (a woman's at that) importance hinges on whether the (male) protagonist is romantically interested in her. Not anymore, those times are over, fortunately.

Aside from that When I played the OG for the first few times, I still remember feeling a much deeper emotional connection between Cloud and Aerith and even seeing them together in a romantic way, for all the flirting and everything. I don't feel or see any of that in the Remake. Not even in the few "Clerith"-scenes we get. Much more I feel a brother/sister/close friends-bond between them.
And the huge addition of Cloti-scenes we got clearly points in one direction and one direction only to me. Plus Aerith still dies and if she should really turn out to live by some highly unlikely fate/ timeline-sheenanigans then by all rights, Zack should live as well and if that happens, the pairings are all the clearer (not saying it will, I don't think that's realistic).

Well, I can just describe my own feelings and they are pretty clear. But I still respect other opinions, of course.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I am glad that the Remake greatly reduced the rivalry between the two girls. It shows that friendship is much more important than jealousy over a guy. Wouldn't really fit into our times, anyway. And I don't think that a character's (a woman's at that) importance hinges on whether the (male) protagonist is romantically interested in her. Not anymore, those times are over, fortunately.

And for that I'm thankful. Now we can appreciate every character by itself and both girls are great. Well, I like Cloud and Red and Barret (love Barret, he's a really versatile and nuanced character here) but my appreciation for both girls went through the roof.

When I played the OG for the first few times, I still remember feeling a much deeper emotional connection between Cloud and Aerith and even seeing them together in a romantic way, for all the flirting and everything. I don't feel or see any of that in the Remake. Not even in the few "Clerith"-scenes we get. Much more I feel a brother/sister/close friends-bond between them.

Interesting, I've got this feeling in the Remake as well. The first time I played the original game I didn't pay any mind to Cloud and Aerith because I wasn't interested in romance -in fact, I groaned when Aerith offered a date as payment and kept reminding the player of that deal and Tifa showed jealousy over it (even in the 90's, that was tacky as hell).

And the huge addition of Cloti-scenes we got clearly points in one direction and one direction only to me.

Plus, Aerith ships them, she's playing matchmaker and she enjoys it just like she enjoys the friendly banter with Cloud and getting to know Tifa. I almost expect her to be like

in the next chaper
Edit: damn pesky typos

 

[Odysseus]

If Aerith really is aware of her own fate, maybe that's why she's less inclined to form a romantic attachment to Cloud. "Don't fall in love with me, its not real" and all that. I'm not sure how much I would like future knowledge coloring character motives though, but she really is pushing Cloud towards Tifa in a few scenes.

I'm eternally grateful they did away with the 90's anime cattiness between her and Tifa anyway; having all the female leads fighting over the male character is extremely tired and regressive. They actually feel like friends this time.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Another line I like is Aerith's "You know you're into this" line to Cloud in Corneo's dungeon.