SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Odysseus]

I swear, the overlap between shipping and localization analysis is hilarious. Any slight change in wording or differing nuance in the delivery could radically change the meaning of a scene, and that means everything to shipping. I've never seen this sort of discussion get anywhere near as in-depth in any other context, it's great. I'm so proud of all of you.

 

[Master Bates]

I swear, the overlap between shipping and localization analysis is hilarious. Any slight change in wording or differing nuance in the delivery could radically change the meaning of a scene, and that means everything to shipping. I've never seen this sort of discussion get anywhere near as in-depth in any other context, it's great. I'm so proud of all of you.

Well, we need to carefully know the intricacies of these things in order to properly navigate the ship otherwise the ship will sink. The ocean is treacherous after all. Not to mention, also salty... as salty as shippers' tears.

 

[shersita007]

Question: was the line where Aerith said: "gotta look forward, not back" in the OG?

I don't know if the phrase is in OG, but the way I intérpret this phrase in Remake, after all the homage and Zack reference in chapter 8, I felt Aerith was trying to recreate her pending date with Zack through Cloud, even when she ambushed Cloud in the nigth in JP she says 'I want to spend more time with you' (the same phrase she told Zack in her 23 tiny wishes) and her asking Cloud all the way about his soldiers pals and later in the playground her talking about Zack...

She finally realizes she shouldn't use Cloud to recreated her pending date with Zack, so she says to herself 'gotta look forward, not back' and after this realization, she started to treat Cloud as 'no Zack'

 

[odekopeko]

I swear, the overlap between shipping and localization analysis is hilarious. Any slight change in wording or differing nuance in the delivery could radically change the meaning of a scene, and that means everything to shipping. I've never seen this sort of discussion get anywhere near as in-depth in any other context, it's great. I'm so proud of all of you.

Oof, ouch, why does it feel like you sent daggers through my heart?

 

[minami758]

Posted this in the CT club but since we're talking details and looking too in-depth at things... thought I'd drop it in here too. Tangentially LTD-related you could say, lol.

There are several details that show Cloud's attentiveness to Tifa in the Remake. Not just being physically protective, but also caring about her mental and emotional health. He really takes Marle's words about listening to Tifa's thoughts/feelings to heart.

Just a few of the smaller, more missable moments:

1. Before going back to the bar in chapter 3, Tifa puts on her customer service attitude and he calls her out on it.
2. Before leaving for the Sector 5 mission, he tells her to take a deep breath because he can tell she's nervous.
3. During the Sector 5 mission, Tifa sighs and Cloud says "Tifa..." all worried.
4. After the plate fall, on the way back to Sector 7 in the Collapsed Expressway, Tifa worries about the wreckage, and Cloud once again says "Tifa..." all worried.
5. When the trio are back in the sewers with Leslie, Tifa sees the Stamp graffiti and laments that she never got to thank Jessie and Biggs for their work, and Cloud yet again says "Tifa..." all worried. There's a trend here, lol.

And this isn't even all of them. In the OG, while you could never be "mean" to Tifa, there wasn't as much emphasis placed on their relationship earlier on, so this is really nice to see. I appreciate the attention to detail in the Remake ⁠— that even in the smaller moments, Cloud has Tifa's wellbeing on his mind.

 

[Yumelinh]

@minami758 This was definitely something that called my attention because it's such a small but very telling detail.

Cloud's attentiveness to Tifa felt like a way to keep bringing the player attention to her and the fact CLOUD was paying attention to her.

For the first time, I don't think we're overanalyzing here It may look like a small detail if we look at the bigger picture, but it's precisely because they focused on adding such a small detail and kept it consistent in their characterization that shows that this is something that shouldn't be overlooked.

Edit: nitpick sounded a little rude to my non-english brain, so I changed it =)

 

[ForceStealer]

I'd just say that I thought Cloud's slightly stiff "That's not true" in the English Tifa resolution scene sounded perfectly accurate to me for someone not super comfortable with offering emotional support.

 

[odekopeko]

I'd just say that I thought Cloud's slightly stiff "That's not true" in the English Tifa resolution scene sounded perfectly accurate to me for someone not super comfortable with offering emotional support.

I totally get that, but Ch.3 already had Cloud asking her, rather gently, to speak openly with him. She even mentions him losing his hard edge. In Japanese, she says he's getting "softer." So although he isn't comfortable with it, there has to be a noticeable difference from that time when they just barely reunited to something as emotionally moving as the plate dropping?

But I do think I'm asking for more than is necessary. The point still came across that he cared. I'm actually pretty satisfied with that scene.

 

[ForceStealer]

Speaking from experience, I can find it fairly easy to say heartfelt things to someone in a regular conversation only to mostly freeze up when that person is openly weeping in front of me.

 

[RhinoKart]

A slightly stiff delivery fits a bit too. Since they say this is real Cloud showing up in this scene. He's an awkward 16 year old who has dealt with his emotional problems in life by putting up a tough guy persona.

So him saying "that's not true" in response to crying being a waste of time is huge, and his delivery of not being totally confident in how he communicates it makes a lot of sense and feels pretty authentic. If Cloud knew how to be emotionally open and comforting it wouldn't have taken him so long to hug Tifa.

 

[odekopeko]

I spoke about this in the club, and I could be super wrong, but I still don't think all of Real Cloud shows up in Tifa's Resolution. The only moment I felt it was his true self trying to wrestle his way out is in those few seconds where he suddenly jerks his head up and isn't able to speak, and you see this struggle on his face before he hugs her.

I think that is where his true self emerges briefly, but he's back to Ex-Soldier Cloud by the time he says that last line.

(I could be super wrong though!)

Speaking from experience, I can find it fairly easy to say heartfelt things to someone in a regular conversation only to mostly freeze up when that person is openly weeping in front of me.

I see what you mean, and that makes a lot of sense too. It could be that the English VA was directed that way for a reason as well.

 

[Stiggie]

I spoke about this in the club, and I could be super wrong, but I still don't think all of Real Cloud shows up in Tifa's Resolution. The only moment I felt it was his true self trying to wrestle his way out is in those few seconds where he suddenly jerks his head up and isn't able to speak, and you see this struggle on his face before he hugs her.

I think that is where his true self emerges briefly, but he's back to Ex-Soldier Cloud by the time he says that last line.

(I could be super wrong though!)


I see what you mean, and that makes a lot of sense too. It could be that the English VA was directed that way for a reason as well.

I disagree, that last line sounds to me like something I would say, something someone would say when they want to be comforting, but can't find the words, I think that was pure Cloud.
Cloud being himself doesn't mean Cloud speaking deep truths from the heart. Cloud not knowing what to say is still "really Cloud".

To me, one of the moments where Cloud seemed most like himself was when he tries to Comfort Tifa on the pillar but doesn't know how, he just lets out an uncertain and trying "hey".

 

[odekopeko]

I disagree, that last line sounds to me like something I would say, something someone would say when they want to be comforting, but can't find the words, I think that was pure Cloud.
Cloud being himself doesn't mean Cloud speaking deep truths from the heart. Cloud not knowing what to say is still "really Cloud".

Fair assessment. I admit, I hoped and wished he was true Cloud the entire way through, so if it was, then I'd be happy.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

This punitive action is being applied a couple of days later than preferred, but time was needed to discuss it among staff. Cat on Mars has now been banned from this thread for three weeks due to the unnecessary hostility (and resistance to correctional assessment applied by other members) in the discussion that began here.

Three weeks may seem harsh, but the member in question has received warnings prior to this, as well as a two-day ban prior. This was unfortunately the next step.

Thanks to all those who attempted to improve that situation as it unfolded. It is very much appreciated how much the overall respectfulness of discourse around this subject matter has improved these past couple of months.

 

[Purple]

Duly noted. This is probably the sanest place to debate the LTD in the whole internet and it’s nice to nip all hostility in the bud as early as possible

 

[Final_Heaven]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274182219842547712

So the poll is done.

It was near even but Cloti pulled out ahead of Clerith by less than 0.5%.

I'm not exactly happy with the amount my ship won by but in the words of Tifa:



Regardless, I do think that the win would've been bigger if it wasn't conducted by someone with mostly Clerith followers and if said said pollster hadn't banned a bunch Cloti shippers from voting and tweeting their poll.

 

[RhinoKart]

Oh wow, I had checked it this afternoon and Clerith was way up so I figured that would be it.

I say this as someone who was way too invested in this poll, but a fan poll is just for fun and I hope the person running it did at least have fun! I know those of us following it saw some unpleasant comments around it but there were also some nice conversations in the comments so maybe a few people got something more out of it.

(But also YAY Cloti!)

 

[Purple]

Reading some of the comments over there and I’m just shaking my head. At the end of the day, it’s just a fan poll and would no way change or influence the story of FF7

But gotta chew on something before part 2 I guess

 

[minami758]

I don’t really pay attention to Twit polls but given the sheer number of engagements and how votes shot up in only a few hours, it’s very clear that the poll was botted by both sides.

 

[Eerie]

I didn’t check the poll, this is extremely childish and a very stupid way to spend your money on. We are at the top of “internet points” there. The ridiculousness of it make us shippers look just so bad, from every side. I’m sorry, I just can’t understand, there are better polls that have not been rigged, Twitter polls are usually not that interesting except for fun stuff (I saw a few about the most hideous courthouses in France that was absolutely hilarious).

So yes, Twitter poll about who’s your favourite pair is supposed to be fun but when it’s rigged from the start, where’s the fun? Not to put down anyone’s feelings but this one is extra bad.

 

[Graymouse]

Question: was the line where Aerith said: "gotta look forward, not back" in the OG?

If I am remembering correctly. These two videos should help answer your question.

Here is the park scene with Aerith and Cloud in the OG.

At least in the park in the OG Aerith never said "Gotta look forward, not back"

Here is when Aerith said that in the Remake.

It is safe to say that she only says it in the Remake. Also, while we are on the subject of the park in the Remake. When Aerith suggested to take a break, Cloud didn't want to, he wanted to go to Sector 7. Aerith insisted. I think this is where Aerith rubs me the wrong way. Sometimes she can be very brash.

I will concede however, that if it wasn't for Aerith, making Cloud take a chill pill for a few minutes. Cloud would have never saw the Chocobo carriage come by with Tifa in the back, so there is that and I am grateful!

If I am misremembering things, please let me know.

 

[minami758]

Re: "Gotta look forward, not back."

Taking the words at face value it definitely reads like Aerith wants to move forward with her life and stop dwelling on Zack, but that's also ignoring the tone of her voice, her body language, and her facial expressions. She says these words that should be optimistic, but instead there's a melancholy air about them. She's trying to convince herself in that moment that she wants to "look forward," but in actuality is finding it very difficult.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: "Gotta look forward, not back."

Taking the words at face value it definitely reads like Aerith wants to move forward with her life and stop dwelling on Zack, but that's also ignoring the tone of her voice, her body language, and her facial expressions. She says these words that should be optimistic, but instead there's a melancholy air about them. She's trying to convince herself in that moment that she wants to "look forward," but in actuality is finding it very difficult.

I mean, the entire scene is indirectly telling us she's not over Zack, so that fits. She's repeating a mantra she doesn't really believe.

 

[MasterMoogle]

If I am remembering correctly. These two videos should help answer your question.

Here is the park scene with Aerith and Cloud in the OG.

At least in the park in the OG Aerith never said "Gotta look forward, not back"

Here is when Aerith said that in the Remake.

It is safe to say that she only says it in the Remake. Also, while we are on the subject of the park in the Remake. When Aerith suggested to take a break, Cloud didn't want to, he wanted to go to Sector 7. Aerith insisted. I think this is where Aerith rubs me the wrong way. Sometimes she can be very brash.

I will concede however, that if it wasn't for Aerith, making Cloud take a chill pill for a few minutes. Cloud would have never saw the Chocobo carriage come by with Tifa in the back, so there is that and I am grateful!

If I am misremembering things, please let me know.

Re: "Gotta look forward, not back."

Taking the words at face value it definitely reads like Aerith wants to move forward with her life and stop dwelling on Zack, but that's also ignoring the tone of her voice, her body language, and her facial expressions. She says these words that should be optimistic, but instead there's a melancholy air about them. She's trying to convince herself in that moment that she wants to "look forward," but in actuality is finding it very difficult.

I mean, the entire scene is indirectly telling us she's not over Zack, so that fits. She's repeating a mantra she doesn't really believe.

That's not why I'm bringing it up though. I bring it up because there must be a larger overarching reason WHY the devs chose to add that line.

 

[Eerie]

I think it flew over the heads of many that:

- Zack was important to Aerith
- she was not over him when she meets Cloud

To me the park crystallises that the devs want to stress that she did truly love Zack, it was not a fleeting feeling, and that she’s not over him at that moment, at least. I’d even argue, seeing the last scene, that she’s not over him in the whole first part.