SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rfcloud88]

Tifa doesn't even know Cloud. He was an outcast, she didn't particularly mind. According to FFVII, their history begins with a promise when they're teenagers and she already lost part of her memories (he fell off a bridge for her when she barely knew he existed), and then seven years later she gets to know the Real Cloud after the lifestream sequence.

Aerith on the other hand has the advantage of being more inquisitive, outspoken and knowing Zack, so she quickly figures out the similarities, and gets kinda attracted to him for that reason, but then learns he's nothing like him but still falls for him for who he is, not what he's trying to be.

You can see the real Cloud emerge from the shadows and bond with Aerith more than he ever did with Tifa for that reason, both in the original and the remake. Aerith gets him to do and say things Tifa couldn't.

By the end of Sector 7, people tolerate Cloud as a competent professional (because Tifa buys into his mercenary facade and doesn't try to appeal to his deside to be accepted, she just gives him jobs). Sector 5 welcomes him, adults and children all like him because Aerith sees right through his prickly facade, that he's not a bad person, and tries to teach him true kindness by appealing to his poorly concealed compassion.

If that means Cloud loves her, that's up to anybody's guess. He did fall for Tifa for absolutely no reason other than her being cute, though. What else? They hardly knew each other.

It boggles my mind how people can say "Aerith never met the real Cloud" when the opposite is true: Aerith did kinda meet him (which is a big reason why Cloud is devastated by her death other then failing to protect people etc.) before Tifa.

Aerith was the first person able to bring out the caring side of the Real Cloud, despite his mental issues. Aerith was able to bring Cloud to the surface and have him shine through during a time when he was a mixed clump of Jenova's cells and Zack’s memories.

The entire thing turning into "Aerith never loved Cloud, she's only using him to cope about Zack" is nonsense.

You don't need anything other than the two songs to know it's nonsense.

We never got Cloud's side of the story, but a man doesn't mourn a woman the way Cloud does mourn Aerith if he doesn't love her to a degree, and certainly not just as a comrade, even for "anime" friendship that's preposterous.

However, what really shocks me after all these years is not how underrated Aerith's relationship with Cloud is, but how overrated Tifa's relationship with Cloud is. I don't know it's because Cloud likes her, or because the fans like her. Either way, halo effect.

--------

You can see it in the GS rebirth date too, the wrong idea people in this thread immediately got: Aerith can't tell him the truth about Zack (and neither can Tifa), he takes it the wrong way and he gets visibly hurt and jealous. He has no problem making a move on Tifa but he gets shy just by holding Aerith's hand.

The writing in this game is all over the place.

It’s not all over the place. If you don’t like the writing in the game, which Nomura composed don’t bother playing the game. It’s his piece of work. If Zack was still around 8 out 10 times Aerith would rather be with him than Cloud. He’s more outgoing than Cloud plus Aerith has been writing to letters to him. So yes she was coping. Plus the Japanese voice actor Kenichi Suzumura for Zack mentioned if y’all like Zack just wait till see you some action with Zerith.

 

[faefolk]

Yes, and I remember the conversations where some were making up so much stuff about Tifa and Aerith based PURELY on the three dresses from Remake.

I’m not repeating any of that vitriol here but it essentially boiled down to Tifa either being characterised in a certain way because of her dresses and then Aerith being characterised differently because her dresses were like this, and vice versa.

I saw some random stuff as well about Aerith being a certain type of woman simply because she wore wedged heels in Crisis Core and stuff about everything you need to know about Tifa’s character is that she’s a bartender, I just don’t even

I don’t understand how anyone can engage THIS much with a story and series of media where they have such a level of hatred for one or more of the characters, like not a “this character is a bad person, the writing is done in a way to make the audience hate them” but a deeply personal, projected level of hatred onto a character because of perceived faults and not anything that is actually found within the text

Tifa is constantly s**t shamed just because of how her character is designed and it's so gross. Everyone throws out the 'people only like her because boobs' and it's honestly so upsetting as a woman to read that because it's really representation of societies attitude towards women (as in outside the gaming sphere)

It really bugs me too because I love Tifa because she is awkward, really caring and very maternal. None of the things people assume about her.


And I agree re Aerith too. The vitriol some hardcore CloTi people spit about her is disgusting. The whole 'she deserves to die' etc is just nuts. You don't have to like her character, that's fine. But you don't need to talk about her character in such a horrible way either.

 

[Lockhart_201]

Spoiler: Cloti Date

Deleted by moderator; please do not link to leaks

 

[Lockhart_201]

Spoiler: About Tifa’s GS Date

I mentioned this in the spoiler/leak thread but I’m surprised that there hasn’t been a full script leak from Tifa’s GS date yet, nor a video that shows the full dialogue between them before the kiss.

Spoiler

[There's a bit more on a YouTube Channel called Kittara Girl Amv ]

 

[Luherdez]

Tifa doesn't even know Cloud. He was an outcast, she didn't particularly mind. According to FFVII, their history begins with a promise when they're teenagers and she already lost part of her memories (he fell off a bridge for her when she barely knew he existed), and then seven years later she gets to know the Real Cloud after the lifestream sequence.

 

[LNK]

For real though, it genuinely does bother me when people say Aerith somehow matches better with Cloud, personality wise, because they're so opposite. It feels like an attempt to turn something bad (they're nothing alike and argue all the time), into something good (oh, they compliment each other and have chemistry!). Like introversion is a bad thing that an extravert needs to fix, it's such an insulting stance to take imo.

To be fair, opposites do attract. It's just not something that'll typically pan out, without work. My girlfriend and I are definite opposites in pretty large ways. Through lots of communication, we work it out though

 

[pb+j]

there is a video of the full date going around somewhere I saw it a couple of days ago. I can't remember the exact wording anymore so I'm paraphrasing but the dialogue more or less goes like this.

Spoiler

the first part of the date is pretty much like the other dates that Darth transcribed, there's some banter, nothing that important.

the fireworks start and tifa says "wow it's beautiful"

cloud stares at her. tifa turns her head and sees him staring and he gasps, looks away embarrassed.

the conversation about whether tifa has spoken to aerith about zack happens next.

tifa then says something like "it's weird us being here"

cloud: "is it weird? i guess"

tifa: "yea since leaving midgar, or even since we were kids, we've never been this close before"

"maybe i'm getting ahead of myself again"

cloud: "again?"

tifa: "yea again"

cloud: "not one bit"

he pulls her in and they kiss

they get off the wheel. cloud walks behind tifa and you can see him clenching and unclenching his fists lol.

they're facing away from each other and then turn and make eye contact for like 0.5 seconds, gasp, and then turn away again.

tifa says they should go back to their rooms

cloud gasps again for some reason lol (my personal interpretation of this is that he thought she was about to ask him to go back to her room with her because i have no idea why else he would gasp at that)

he then says yea we should go.

end of date

i'm sure the dialogue was a bit more complete than what i can remember but that's the gist of it.

 

[faefolk]

there is a video of the full date going around somewhere I saw it a couple of days ago. I can't remember the exact wording anymore so I'm paraphrasing but the dialogue more or less goes like this.

Spoiler

the first part of the date is pretty much like the other dates that Darth transcribed, there's some banter, nothing that important.

the fireworks start and tifa says "wow it's beautiful"

cloud stares at her. tifa turns her head and sees him staring and he gasps, looks away embarrassed.

the conversation about whether tifa has spoken to aerith about zack happens next.

tifa then says something like "it's weird us being here"

cloud: "is it weird? i guess"

tifa: "yea since leaving midgar, or even since we were kids, we've never been this close before"

"maybe i'm getting ahead of myself again"

cloud: "again?"

tifa: "yea again"

cloud: "not one bit"

he pulls her in and they kiss

they get off the wheel. cloud walks behind tifa and you can see him clenching and unclenching his fists lol.

they're facing away from each other and then turn and make eye contact for like 0.5 seconds, gasp, and then turn away again.

tifa says they should go back to their rooms

cloud gasps again for some reason lol (my personal interpretation of this is that he thought she was about to ask him to go back to her room with her because i have no idea why else he would gasp at that)

he then says yea we should go.

end of date

i'm sure the dialogue was a bit more complete than what i can remember but that's the gist of it.

Aw man thanks for this! I also hadn't seen the full date but that's adorable and seems to fit their characters so well. Especially given Cloud is essentially still a teenager mentally and Tifa is so reserved. The awkwardness is giving me life.

 

[andover]

im not replying to all that but you clearly have not seen cloud and tifa's full date if you think he's just making moves on her. they are so awkward and shy both before and after the

Spoiler

kiss.

This is gonna be long, apologizes in advance! I also repeat myself a lot and ask tons of questions. Be warned!

Let’s just get this out of the way…

Spoiler

Tifa straight up lied about having a conversation with Aerith about Zack. Watch Tifa’s date, then watch Aerith’s right after. The flashback is the same for both. Tifa says that Cloud knew Zack and Aerith gasps Tifa continues that they were friends five years ago, Aerith only says “What?” In response to the last sentence for both.

Right before Aerith responds to Cloud’s inquiry, Aerith unprompted talks about how she saw a lot of Zack in Cloud. She then says it’s okay that he is not Zack because she wants to be with him and she’s also trying hard to find him. When Cloud finally stumbles out the Zack question, Aerith’s response leads the player/watcher to conclude that not only is she over Zack (if she wasn’t already by what she JUST said) by saying the conversation she had with Tifa about him “Wasn’t important” but also reveals the fact that it actually happened.

On Tifa’s date after the flashback, Tifa just says “Not yet” in response to something we KNOW happened because why is it the same flashback? Why didn’t the development team/writers have a separate cutscene where Aerith says something else? But her saying a sad “Not yet” allows Cloud to assume that it’s a “touchy” subject and Aerith must not be over Zack. He says as much afterwards. He defaults to this because Cloud at his core is a very insecure man. Tifa says “It’s a bit more complicated than that” (complicated for who Tifa? You or Cloud?) and before Cloud can question it, Tifa changes the subject and starts talking about how she can’t remember them ever being that close… that’s… weird. Especially because this is likely the HA version of the date scene. They’ve had tons of moments we can presume: the play, the imposter thing and especially the “almost k***” people talk about.

Why did Tifa lie about having this conversation? If you believe it’s because Tifa doesn’t want to presume Aerith’s feelings or share something private… I’ll give you that but I just have one question: why didn’t she… just say that? Why did she just act as if she never had the conversation with Aerith in the first place after the flashback plays which tells the player/watched she did.

Let me also add that Cloud is clearly jealous that Aerith might have feelings for another guy (Zack). This was referenced in the Ultimania Plus when Toriyama stays that Cloud having “complex feelings” about Aerith going a date with another guy (at Evergreen Park) will enhance the depth of the scene. He asks Tifa to confirm if whether it’s true Aerith still loves Zack. Why? Because he trusts her. By the time of this date, they had already (we can assume) reconciled the whole issue where he believes she’s not real. So he trusts her to tell him the truth. We don’t know what promoted Cloud to be jealous of Zack on both their dates because that hasn’t leaked yet/game hasn’t come out yet so we’ll have to find out. Still CLOUD is bringing up the possible romantic feelings Aerith has for another man in front of Tifa while they are on a very romantic date leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also instead of Tifa of saying “it’s not my place”, “ask her yourself” she denies the conversation happens ENTIRELY meanwhile on Aerith’s date she doesn’t deny it and proves she has feelings for Cloud even before he asked.

We don’t know the full context, but Marlene also says that Aerith “really really likes Cloud” and Aerith was “really happy” he came to save her to Zack… her ex. Unfortunately I do not know when that takes place.

You can try and bring up the Sleeping Forest date where apparently they friendzone each other but the English version of the scene that leaked proves that whatever is in the presumably original Japanese script that’s going around is untrue or at least extremely biased by purposefully misinterpreting the nuance in the Japanese language. You can also bring up the affinity system, which is only for the GS and does not affect the main story as stated by the development team.

Lastly, Cloud would have no need to ask Tifa about Aerith’s romantic feelings for another man that has presumably been dead for five years unless he was jealous. Why does he care anyway? Seems strange on a pro Tifa playthrough.

Also to add, Tifa’s doubtfulness is very confusing. Cloud being pretty unreceptive when she is making small talk after he concludes that Aerith still loves her ex leaves a LOT to be desired if you are a fan of the ship. She says before the ending of the scene that she “misread” things between them despite having a high affection with her so it’s pretty clear that the player has favored her to get this date. Her doubtfulness leaves well… doubt that she is the actual date option.
Just because this date ended in a kiss doesn’t mean what lead up to it is earned. Cloud only kissed Tifa because Aerith was no longer a romantic option anymore and it took Tifa lying about a conversation that clearly happened for him to come to that conclusion.

To note: Cloud is slightly mean to Aerith on what we see in the beginning of their date but if you are watching under the assumption he is jealous of Zack for whatever happens before this date his grumpiness makes total sense. He believes Aerith likes another guy even after all the time they’ve spent together.

 

[Lockhart_201]

there is a video of the full date going around somewhere I saw it a couple of days ago. I can't remember the exact wording anymore so I'm paraphrasing but the dialogue more or less goes like this.

Spoiler

the first part of the date is pretty much like the other dates that Darth transcribed, there's some banter, nothing that important.

the fireworks start and tifa says "wow it's beautiful"

cloud stares at her. tifa turns her head and sees him staring and he gasps, looks away embarrassed.

the conversation about whether tifa has spoken to aerith about zack happens next.

tifa then says something like "it's weird us being here"

cloud: "is it weird? i guess"

tifa: "yea since leaving midgar, or even since we were kids, we've never been this close before"

"maybe i'm getting ahead of myself again"

cloud: "again?"

tifa: "yea again"

cloud: "not one bit"

he pulls her in and they kiss

they get off the wheel. cloud walks behind tifa and you can see him clenching and unclenching his fists lol.

they're facing away from each other and then turn and make eye contact for like 0.5 seconds, gasp, and then turn away again.

tifa says they should go back to their rooms

cloud gasps again for some reason lol (my personal interpretation of this is that he thought she was about to ask him to go back to her room with her because i have no idea why else he would gasp at that)

he then says yea we should go.

end of date

i'm sure the dialogue was a bit more complete than what i can remember but that's the gist of it.

Thank you for giving more context to this scene. My heart is melting!

 

[loozzer]

This is gonna be long, apologizes in advance! I also repeat myself a lot and ask tons of questions. Be warned!

Let’s just get this out of the way…

Tifa straight up lied about having a conversation with Aerith about Zack. Watch Tifa’s date, then watch Aerith’s right after. The flashback is the same for both. Tifa says that Cloud knew Zack and Aerith gasps Tifa continues that they were friends five years ago, Aerith only says “What?” In response to the last sentence for both.

Right before Aerith responds to Cloud’s inquiry, Aerith unprompted talks about how she saw a lot of Zack in Cloud. She then says it’s okay that he is not Zack because she wants to be with him and she’s also trying hard to find him. When Cloud finally stumbles out the Zack question, Aerith’s response leads the player/watcher to conclude that not only is she over Zack (if she wasn’t already by what she JUST said) by saying the conversation she had with Tifa about him “Wasn’t important” but also reveals the fact that it actually happened.

On Tifa’s date after the flashback, Tifa just says “Not yet” in response to something we KNOW happened because why is it the same flashback? Why didn’t the development team/writers have a separate cutscene where Aerith says something else? But her saying a sad “Not yet” allows Cloud to assume that it’s a “touchy” subject and Aerith must not be over Zack. He says as much afterwards. He defaults to this because Cloud at his core is a very insecure man. Tifa says “It’s a bit more complicated than that” (complicated for who Tifa? You or Cloud?) and before Cloud can question it, Tifa changes the subject and starts talking about how she can’t remember them ever being that close… that’s… weird. Especially because this is likely the HA version of the date scene. They’ve had tons of moments we can presume: the play, the imposter thing and especially the “almost k***” people talk about.

Why did Tifa lie about having this conversation? If you believe it’s because Tifa doesn’t want to presume Aerith’s feelings or share something private… I’ll give you that but I just have one question: why didn’t she… just say that? Why did she just act as if she never had the conversation with Aerith in the first place after the flashback plays which tells the player/watched she did.

Let me also add that Cloud is clearly jealous that Aerith might have feelings for another guy (Zack). This was referenced in the Ultimania Plus when Toriyama stays that Cloud having “complex feelings” about Aerith going a date with another guy (at Evergreen Park) will enhance the depth of the scene. He asks Tifa to confirm if whether it’s true Aerith still loves Zack. Why? Because he trusts her. By the time of this date, they had already (we can assume) reconciled the whole issue where he believes she’s not real. So he trusts her to tell him the truth. We don’t know what promoted Cloud to be jealous of Zack on both their dates because that hasn’t leaked yet/game hasn’t come out yet so we’ll have to find out. Still CLOUD is bringing up the possible romantic feelings Aerith has for another man in front of Tifa while they are on a very romantic date leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also instead of Tifa of saying “it’s not my place”, “ask her yourself” she denies the conversation happens ENTIRELY meanwhile on Aerith’s date she doesn’t deny it and proves she has feelings for Cloud even before he asked.

We don’t know the full context, but Marlene also says that Aerith “really really likes Cloud” and Aerith was “really happy” he came to save her to Zack… her ex. Unfortunately I do not know when that takes place.

You can try and bring up the Sleeping Forest date where apparently they friendzone each other but the English version of the scene that leaked proves that whatever is in the presumably original Japanese script that’s going around is untrue or at least extremely biased by purposefully misinterpreting the nuance in the Japanese language. You can also bring up the affinity system, which is only for the GS and does not affect the main story as stated by the development team.

Lastly, Cloud would have no need to ask Tifa about Aerith’s romantic feelings for another man that has presumably been dead for five years unless he was jealous. Why does he care anyway? Seems strange on a pro Tifa playthrough.

Also to add, Tifa’s doubtfulness is very confusing. Cloud being pretty unreceptive when she is making small talk after he concludes that Aerith still loves her ex leaves a LOT to be desired if you are a fan of the ship. She says before the ending of the scene that she “misread” things between them despite having a high affection with her so it’s pretty clear that the player has favored her to get this date. Her doubtfulness leaves well… doubt that she is the actual date option.
Just because this date ended in a kiss doesn’t mean what lead up to it is earned. Cloud only kissed Tifa because Aerith was no longer a romantic option anymore and it took Tifa lying about a conversation that clearly happened for him to come to that conclusion.

To note: Cloud is slightly mean to Aerith on what we see in the beginning of their date but if you are watching under the assumption he is jealous of Zack for whatever happens before this date his grumpiness makes total sense. He believes Aerith likes another guy even after all the time they’ve spent together.

All I will say in response to these ramblings is that there is so much more cloti in this game than you even know about. Come back after the 29th. I don't know if you've seen the video of the full date, because if you haven't then you probably shouldn't be talking right now. There's so many little moments from cloud that you're missing. If you have seen the full video and you still think cloud isn't in love with her to some degree then there's no point in discussing with you because even a full blown clerith who's reasonable should be able to see that he has some sort of romantic feelings for her (at the very very least a crush).

And from what I've seen, in addition to increasing tifa's importance compared to the OG by like 100% (because tifa didn't do much in the OG at this point in the story), Rebirth is already dropping hints for a big cloti moment in part 3.

 

[loozzer]

Did we discuss the most recent novella from cloud's POV? It confirms, once again, that cloud's entire motivation to become a SOLDIER was so that he could be someone special to tifa. Honestly, at this point if clerith are endgame, I will happily admit defeat. Because it would be the greatest bait and switch of the century. I wouldn't even be mad haha.

 

[Hix]

Tifa doesn't even know Cloud. He was an outcast, she didn't particularly mind. According to FFVII, their history begins with a promise when they're teenagers and she already lost part of her memories (he fell off a bridge for her when she barely knew he existed), and then seven years later she gets to know the Real Cloud after the lifestream sequence.

On the contrary. The 10th year anniversary Ultimania describes Tifa as "the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him" - that's as far back as OG. Then, in Remake, both Toriyama and Nojima have confirmed elements of the real Cloud only come out when talking to Tifa, nobody else.

Meanwhile, Cloud specifically calls out Aerith for acting like she knows him. This is understandable because the plot is very much showing that, in fact, Cloud's similarities to Zack are causing Aerith to try and relive her moments with Zack through Cloud.

Just because this date ended in a kiss doesn’t mean what lead up to it is earned. Cloud only kissed Tifa because Aerith was no longer a romantic option anymore and it took Tifa lying about a conversation that clearly happened for him to come to that conclusion.

Spoiler

I mean this is conjecture which entirely falls apart when you learn that Cloud and Tifa nearly kiss on multiple occasions before the Gold Saucer date in the game. They get stopped literally by Yuffie yelling "just kiss already" as she's watching them inch closer in Gongaga. There are other moments too.

In fact, the Gold Saucer kiss is what they've both wanted since the beginning of Remake. They've been extremely touchy feely, invading each others space, hugging, almost kissing again at the train roll, it's no surprise it finally happened when they had their time together

 

[faefolk]

This is gonna be long, apologizes in advance! I also repeat myself a lot and ask tons of questions. Be warned!

Let’s just get this out of the way…

Tifa straight up lied about having a conversation with Aerith about Zack. Watch Tifa’s date, then watch Aerith’s right after. The flashback is the same for both. Tifa says that Cloud knew Zack and Aerith gasps Tifa continues that they were friends five years ago, Aerith only says “What?” In response to the last sentence for both.

Right before Aerith responds to Cloud’s inquiry, Aerith unprompted talks about how she saw a lot of Zack in Cloud. She then says it’s okay that he is not Zack because she wants to be with him and she’s also trying hard to find him. When Cloud finally stumbles out the Zack question, Aerith’s response leads the player/watcher to conclude that not only is she over Zack (if she wasn’t already by what she JUST said) by saying the conversation she had with Tifa about him “Wasn’t important” but also reveals the fact that it actually happened.

On Tifa’s date after the flashback, Tifa just says “Not yet” in response to something we KNOW happened because why is it the same flashback? Why didn’t the development team/writers have a separate cutscene where Aerith says something else? But her saying a sad “Not yet” allows Cloud to assume that it’s a “touchy” subject and Aerith must not be over Zack. He says as much afterwards. He defaults to this because Cloud at his core is a very insecure man. Tifa says “It’s a bit more complicated than that” (complicated for who Tifa? You or Cloud?) and before Cloud can question it, Tifa changes the subject and starts talking about how she can’t remember them ever being that close… that’s… weird. Especially because this is likely the HA version of the date scene. They’ve had tons of moments we can presume: the play, the imposter thing and especially the “almost k***” people talk about.

She's saying it's complicated for Aerith bro. She says that in response to Cloud assuming she still has feelings for him. If she wanted to be an a-hole she would have just said nothing after his assumption.

Why did Tifa lie about having this conversation? If you believe it’s because Tifa doesn’t want to presume Aerith’s feelings or share something private… I’ll give you that but I just have one question: why didn’t she… just say that? Why did she just act as if she never had the conversation with Aerith in the first place after the flashback plays which tells the player/watched she did.

Literally everyone knows that Tifa is not keen on talking about Nibelheim. Talking about Zack is likely something that's tied to a lot of trauma for Tifa so it's not really surprising that she would avoid that conversation... Especially with Cloud just prior to that inserting himself into Zacks place when recounting Nibelheim. Why the heck would she wanna open that can of worms?

Let me also add that Cloud is clearly jealous that Aerith might have feelings for another guy (Zack). This was referenced in the Ultimania Plus when Toriyama stays that Cloud having “complex feelings” about Aerith going a date with another guy (at Evergreen Park) will enhance the depth of the scene. He asks Tifa to confirm if whether it’s true Aerith still loves Zack. Why? Because he trusts her. By the time of this date, they had already (we can assume) reconciled the whole issue where he believes she’s not real. So he trusts her to tell him the truth. We don’t know what promoted Cloud to be jealous of Zack on both their dates because that hasn’t leaked yet/game hasn’t come out yet so we’ll have to find out. Still CLOUD is bringing up the possible romantic feelings Aerith has for another man in front of Tifa while they are on a very romantic date leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also instead of Tifa of saying “it’s not my place”, “ask her yourself” she denies the conversation happens ENTIRELY meanwhile on Aerith’s date she doesn’t deny it and proves she has feelings for Cloud even before he asked.

I'm sorry. How in the mental gymnastics does this translate into Cloud proceeding to kiss Tifa in a pretty out of the blue way? And it's really, really not clear at all that Cloud is jealous of Zack? Wut?

We don’t know the full context, but Marlene also says that Aerith “really really likes Cloud” and Aerith was “really happy” he came to save her to Zack… her ex. Unfortunately I do not know when that takes place.

No one is trying to deny Aerith is crushing on Cloud. Just that Tifas date had nothing to do with weird nefarious intent you're implying.

You can try and bring up the Sleeping Forest date where apparently they friendzone each other but the English version of the scene that leaked proves that whatever is in the presumably original Japanese script that’s going around is untrue or at least extremely biased by purposefully misinterpreting the nuance in the Japanese language. You can also bring up the affinity system, which is only for the GS and does not affect the main story as stated by the development team.

Lastly, Cloud would have no need to ask Tifa about Aerith’s romantic feelings for another man that has presumably been dead for five years unless he was jealous. Why does he care anyway? Seems strange on a pro Tifa playthrough.

Because he's concerned about his friend? The same friend who brings up said dude multiple times? His friend who is also friends with Tifa.

Also to add, Tifa’s doubtfulness is very confusing. Cloud being pretty unreceptive when she is making small talk after he concludes that Aerith still loves her ex leaves a LOT to be desired if you are a fan of the ship. She says before the ending of the scene that she “misread” things between them despite having a high affection with her so it’s pretty clear that the player has favored her to get this date. Her doubtfulness leaves well… doubt that she is the actual date option.
Just because this date ended in a kiss doesn’t mean what lead up to it is earned. Cloud only kissed Tifa because Aerith was no longer a romantic option anymore and it took Tifa lying about a conversation that clearly happened for him to come to that conclusion.

That's.. not .. ughhhhh.

To note: Cloud is slightly mean to Aerith on what we see in the beginning of their date but if you are watching under the assumption he is jealous of Zack for whatever happens before this date his grumpiness makes total sense. He believes Aerith likes another guy even after all the time they’ve spent together.

But Tifas date isn't canon according to you... So why would he be under that assumption if the Tifa date didn't happen?

I literally cannot with your reasoning man.

 

[faefolk]

Did we discuss the most recent novella from cloud's POV? It confirms, once again, that cloud's entire motivation to become a SOLDIER was so that he could be someone special to tifa. Honestly, at this point if clerith are endgame, I will happily admit defeat. Because it would be the greatest bait and switch of the century. I wouldn't even be mad haha.

Yeah, SE is pushing the Tifa endgame harder than they ever have previously.

 

[loozzer]

Yeah, SE is pushing the Tifa endgame harder than they ever have previously.

Like let's say they are really setting up for clerith end game in part 3. After this game,

Spoiler

the kiss

will be plastered everywhere across youtube, twitter, etc. The views for it will be so much higher than anything else coming out of this game. People are going to be writing articles about it. Can you imagine the team trying to walk back on that LOL. I genuinely wouldn't even be mad if they pulled off something crazy like that.

Something else that I don't really have clarification on right now is that according to

Spoiler

Darth, during the final boss fight after aerith's death, we see zack being protected by some sort of pink bow shield. that's obviously something aerith is responsible for. I'd be very interested in seeing if cloud has that same sort of protection. you'd think if aerith was protecting zack from the beyond, she'd also give cloud the same protection if she loves cloud so much.

 

[Zach1545]

Like let's say they are really setting up for clerith end game in part 3. After this game,

Spoiler

the kiss

will be plastered everywhere across youtube, twitter, etc. The views for it will be so much higher than anything else coming out of this game. People are going to be writing articles about it. Can you imagine the team trying to walk back on that LOL. I genuinely wouldn't even be mad if they pulled off something crazy like that.

Something else that I don't really have clarification on right now is that according to

Spoiler

Darth, during the final boss fight after aerith's death, we see zack being protected by some sort of pink bow shield. that's obviously something aerith is responsible for. I'd be very interested in seeing if cloud has that same sort of protection. you'd think if aerith was protecting zack from the beyond, she'd also give cloud the same protection if she loves cloud so much.

Omg yes, GO OFF.

 

[faefolk]

Like let's say they are really setting up for clerith end game in part 3. After this game,

Spoiler

the kiss

will be plastered everywhere across youtube, twitter, etc. The views for it will be so much higher than anything else coming out of this game. People are going to be writing articles about it. Can you imagine the team trying to walk back on that LOL. I genuinely wouldn't even be mad if they pulled off something crazy like that.

Something else that I don't really have clarification on right now is that according to

Spoiler

Darth, during the final boss fight after aerith's death, we see zack being protected by some sort of pink bow shield. that's obviously something aerith is responsible for. I'd be very interested in seeing if cloud has that same sort of protection. you'd think if aerith was protecting zack from the beyond, she'd also give cloud the same protection if she loves cloud so much.

Yeah.. it will honestly make Cloud seem like the worst kind of dude if that happens haha. Even if the dates are not canon - it's not a good look for the main protagonist.

Personally I'm of the opinion that all potential resolutions are canon. I think the creators carefully think of what they want to convey in those also. All three resolutions in the remake were true to the characters and the story and I'm sure the same will be done with any optional scenes in Rebirth.


Ohhh, I missed that by Darth. That's super interesting!

 

[Stiggie]

To be fair, opposites do attract. It's just not something that'll typically pan out, without work. My girlfriend and I are definite opposites in pretty large ways. Through lots of communication, we work it out though

They don't, opposites attract for some people, and they don't attract for other people, and the ones for which they do make claims as if it applies to everyone. I am not attracted to my opposite.

 

[billy22]

Rereading my post on the first page of this topic four years ago (gods), I thought Remake leaned towards Tifa in most ways, and that the only devil's advocate argument you could make for Aerith was her resolution scene having the romantic tension that it did.

I have not played Rebirth so I will reserve final judgement until I have the full context of the game. But I will say that the one thing people aren't going to be able to get around is the date:

Tifa gets a smooch, despite being so shy and reserved. Aerith does not, despite still dying.

Bear in the mind that these were conscious decisions by the team of developers. These people sat in a room, decided "Yeah, let's make Cloud and Tifa kiss on their date," while also deciding "Let's not have Aerith kiss though, but also still kill her."

The "nakama" conversation right before she dies is just the ultimate shipping nut kick on top of it.

 

[Maidenofwar]

It's such an assassination of Aerith's character, and reminds me of everything I hated about Crisis Core.

I mean at the end of the day it's a part of their audience they alienate and convince not to get the game or the next one.

It's not even about shipper it's a beloved character as well.

 

[faefolk]

It's such an assassination of Aerith's character, and reminds me of everything I hated about Crisis Core.

I mean at the end of the day it's a part of their audience they alienate and convince not to get the game or the next one.

Crisis Core was what made me like Aerith.. I didn't enjoy her character at all in the OG. I know a bunch of people who feel the same.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Nah it's terrible, especially if the she goes for over ten dates with Cloud in this one is true too. OG Aerith would never wear ribbon for a man, make over 23 wishes, write over 80 letters, etc. It's excessive. OG Aerith wanted to fly in the Highwind, not always cry over the sky,

OG Aerith and Remake 1 Aerith's are best Aeriths imo while Advent Children and CC were on the other end, without context though Rebirth might be the worst.

Bear in mind players have to work hard 75%~ to get the "Intimate" versions of the dates.

 

[faefolk]

Nah it's terrible, especially if the she goes for over ten dates with Cloud in this one is true too. OG Aerith would never wear ribbon for a man, make over 23 wishes, write over 80 letters, etc. It's excessive.

Bear in mind players have to work hard 75%~ to get the "Intimate" versions of the dates.

Riiiight... But she would fall desperately in love with a dude in the span of like.. four weeks?

Also she was with Zack for most of Crisis Core which spans a significant length of time. So it's not really excessive anyways.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't hate CC Aerith, I just think the writing for the romance and characterization could have been better. I forgot Before Crisis Aerith, I liked that one from what I know.