SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

There was a lot of needless fanservice even in Remake, and I agree about finding it mildly annoying that people are so focused on ships in this game. But what exactly is vague about Cloud/Tifa's relationship? Everything since the compilation has been very pro-Cloud/Tifa. Remake and Rebirth are no different.

I mean just look at the list of 'couple' things they are confirmed to have done:

• Kiss on a date
• Sex under the highwind
• Live together & raise adopted children

How many couples in the Final Fantasy franchise can claim all three of those? Hell, did Zidane/Garnet ever even check one of those off the list?

Not including couple who have kids when we first meet them...

Cecil/Rosa
Fang and his Wife
Mog from the Moogle Minigame in the Golden Saucer
Laguna and Raine in a technical sense.
Wakka and Lulu
Noctis and Lunafreya in one possible ending
We know that Lenna (Or Faris but more likely Lenna) continues the Tycoon Line, but we don't know who with and we know about it because her many generations descendant is a main character in an OVA sequel.

Zidane and Garnet do not kiss. The game literally ends right before they do.

Cid and Hildegarde do adopt Eiko, but again I believe they had adult children we never met so I discount them on those grounds.

 

[Hix]

Fair enough!

Of course, I wouldn't argue that a handhold is more romantic than a kiss, because that's just silly, but I didn't question it when people said the Aerith date had romantic elements because of my own experience.

I actually think the GS date is quite emblematic of the entire "LTD" as a whole.

On the one hand, you have a relationship that has little room for misinterpretation. A kiss is unquestionably, undeniably romantic/passionate and it can't even be said to be "heat of the moment" because Cloud/Tifa nearly kiss on several occasions prior, it's built up to.

On the other hand, you have a relationship that requires endless explanation and discussion to work. Hand holding can be interpreted as a friendly, family or "nakama" gesture, particularly if it's coming from someone who has shown isn't too shy to kiss someone he seriously fancies.

This is the LTD in a microcosm. Sit around and do nothing and Cloti wins by virtue of Aerith dying and Cloud ending up living with Tifa as a family. It's simplistically overt. Meanwhile, to make Clerith work you need to ignore vast swathes of lore, reinterpret scenes in a different light, bring external sources as proofs and, most importantly, deconstruct Tifa's entire character and her relationship with Cloud. I don't buy the "inferiority complex" accusation leveled towards that ship, I genuinely think that it's believers are continually on the attack because they need to be, the ship sinks without it.

The GS date gives something to both girls and their fans, but it's clear the direction the devs are taking things. I don't see why so many fans of Cloud/Tifa panic at the drop of a hat - maybe because I'm just a salty Zerith - because if you ignore fluffy ship teasing you'll see SE have already, a long time ago, picked a lane.

 

[Empyrea]

I don't see why so many fans of Cloud/Tifa panic at the drop of a hat - maybe because I'm just a salty Zerith - because if you ignore fluffy ship teasing you'll see SE have already, a long time ago, picked a lane.

Just looking at the game itself, especially what we know so far about Rebirth, I'm good.

It's really less panic and more dismay on my part. See, I've discussed the game with a person who I suspect to be a Clerith in hindsight. Now I will admit I was very much more of a doormat and more impressionable when this happened, but said person tried to sway me into thinking that Aerith should be the one I like (I'm less a Cloti and more a Tifa fan -- I...really don't care much about Cloud, funny enough) and that C/A was 100% romantic all the way up to AC.

That was a decade ago and I've long since cut contact with that person, plus I've learned to be more confident with my comprehension of the media I consume, but I would love to be able to discuss FF7 without needing to debate about the canon pair. That and talk about other things. Red's mini arc in Cosmo Canyon is among my favorite moments in the game and (unlike my view of Cloud) Zack is my precious boi who got shafted so hard by this entire drama, imo.

 

[Hix]

Replying to @BlueSky 's moving post over here, but considering Cloud's reaction to finally remembering Zack - and Hollow being sung for him - it just continues to astound me how some people actually believe Cloud would knife Zack in the back by having a short-lived fling with his girlfriend.

Just looking at the game itself, especially what we know so far about Rebirth, I'm good.

It's really less panic and more dismay on my part. See, I've discussed the game with a person who I suspect to be a Clerith in hindsight. Now I will admit I was very much more of a doormat and more impressionable when this happened, but said person tried to sway me into thinking that Aerith should be the one I like (I'm less a Cloti and more a Tifa fan -- I...really don't care much about Cloud, funny enough) and that C/A was 100% romantic all the way up to AC.

That was a decade ago and I've long since cut contact with that person, plus I've learned to be more confident with my comprehension of the media I consume, but I would love to be able to discuss FF7 without needing to debate about the canon pair. That and talk about other things. Red's mini arc in Cosmo Canyon is among my favorite moments in the game and (unlike my view of Cloud) Zack is my precious boi who got shafted so hard by this entire drama, imo.

I hear and yeah, I agree. It's definitely dismaying that we are unable to have a situation where shipping is welcome and encouraged but without it continually encroaching on what is actually canon in discussion. Dilutes from the experience for sure.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Does Cloud want to embrace Zack? Wish he was here in his embrace?

 

[Empyrea]

That's definitely my sister's headcanon haha

 

[Maidenofwar]

"Was it all a dream, will I ever know
Foolish and blind to everything
Had I realized, had I thought it through
Would you be here in my embrace"

Yeah, ok.

 

[slimo6464]

Does Cloud want to embrace Zack? Wish he was here in his embrace?

I'm into it.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Don't even bother going for the personal attack Hix. I have not said a single thing about Cloti.

 

[eleamaya]

Does Cloud want to embrace Zack? Wish he was here in his embrace?

Embracing the dream he pass on. When he finally embrace it, of course he wish Zack could see and proud of him.
Price of Freedom official lyrics also use the word "embrace" and even "love" if you read the whole lyrics, it's like Cloud singing to Zack as well, but not when he's hollow, it's when he would never forget the "love" he gave him

 

[Maidenofwar]

Look, all I will say if it is about Zack, they will say so. They were bold enough to say what NPTK was about.

Guess, we will have to just wait and see if Hollow also plays at City of the Ancients/ Forgotten Capital.

 

[Hix]

Look, all I will say if it is about Zack, they will say so. They were bold enough to say what NPTK was about.

Nojima has already clarified that it is a "ballad for a man who has lost something important to him". Given it plays at the end of Remake, it's not outlandish to suggest it's about Zack and/or Cloud's memories of him.

 

[Razumin]

Spoiler: Regarding hollow

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762737567831605388

 

[Maidenofwar]

I'm not here to ruin people's dreams anyway, so I'm not saying anything else, but people were really happy about that dang trailer yesterday, and they are allowed to be. Don't shit on that, or allude to anyone being deluded, please.

 

[Stiggie]

I gotta say Clotis are the first fandom I’ve seen who get a confession, a kiss, an almost kiss, miscommunication/make up trope, and a whole other game that’s going to be focused on them still worried about stuff like this

We've been through all this before

 

[Stiggie]

Look, all I will say if it is about Zack, they will say so. They were bold enough to say what NPTK was about.

Guess, we will have to just wait and see if Hollow also plays at City of the Ancients/ Forgotten Capital.

I still don't get why people insist on hollow being about anything.

Specifically I mean, not in general. Since when are songs about concrete individual people and events? They are sometimes of course, but in my experience more often than not songs are inspired by people, ideas, and feelings on a general level, and are not meant to represent an exact moment to moment retelling of a specific story.

Cloud has lost his mother, his best friend, his hometown, his memories, and Aerith. All this comes together to inspire a song about loss which uses flowery romantic imagery since that's a fitting vibe for such a song. I will never understand why people are trying to go through specific lines as if Cloud is the literal subject of this song describing his feelings on just one thing, it feels so asinine to me.

 

[billy22]

Not including couple who have kids when we first meet them...

Noctis and Lunafreya in one possible ending

I've played FFXV a couple of times and I don't remember an ending with them having kids? Was that in a book somewhere? Seems like it'd contradict the story considering how the game ends.

(also thanks for the detailed response).

Of course, I wouldn't argue that a handhold is more romantic than a kiss, because that's just silly, but I didn't question it when people said the Aerith date had romantic elements because of my own experience.

I kid you not, older people in my country consider handholding PDA Granted, it has been lessening nowadays, but I certainly grew up around the notion that if you see two people around the same age holding hands, they're either a couple or are siblings. Definitely a couple if their fingers are intertwined.

Having watched the date the handholding felt like Cloud himself trying to explore how he feels about Aerith. Like a "I'm interested, but let's see if I'm romantically interested" move on his part. For early dates/interactions people kind of flirt/touch to gauge their own interest as well as the other party's.

Kissing is the person(s) confirming with each other of "Yes, I love this person."

 

[KindOfBlue]

Don't shit on that, or allude to anyone being deluded, please.

Forget alluding, I’ll just outright say it. If people allow shipteasing in a trailer to color their judgement of what’s actually happening in the story all because “well, at least we got fed a little bit”, then they’re pretty much setting themselves up for disappointment if the actual game doesn’t turn out like they hope.

 

[loozzer]

man there was so much going on with the ending and shipping is probably like the least important part of all that. but near the end i did think that

Spoiler

it was kinda weird how we got this emotional moment (that could be interpreted as romantic) with cloud crying and than smiling at aerith multiple times, there was handholding and some cinematic shots. but then by the end of the game cloud's just like "k aerith be careful byee, i'm off with the others now"

 

[mimi_scarlet]

man there was so much going on with the ending and shipping is probably like the least important part of all that. but near the end i did think that

Spoiler

it was kinda weird how we got this emotional moment (that could be interpreted as romantic) with cloud crying and than smiling at aerith multiple times, there was handholding and some cinematic shots. but then by the end of the game cloud's just like "k aerith be careful byee, i'm off with the others now"

Spoiler

just watched it and I feel really worried and concerned about Clouds mental health. I didn't see much romantic, since Clouds mind is sooo messed up and its both creepy and sad at the same time. Just my opinion but it wouldn't be healthy and that's clearly not our Cloud anymore, plus like you said the ending is really like "alright, imma head off, see ya." I hope Tifa can fix his broken mind soon.

 

[Maidenofwar]

The game is turning out just fine thanks, if you want to mock people for that it's your perogative but if you flat out call people deluded I will block you, simple as.

 

[Legend45]

Spoiler

So from what i can conclude from the ending is that Cloud DOES know she is dead but he is playing it off too casually so he is still coping but im 99% sure by the end he knows she is dead. However him keeping these deep feelings to himself is gonna wreck his emotional state... Tifa having to fix this in Part 3 is gonna be a trainwreck of emotions.

 

[faefolk]

Spoiler

I did not get that Cloud knows she's dead at all. Barret and Tifa also look like they're silently acknowledging he's off his rocker too. Especially when he starts talking about the sky. Even though no one else knows wtf he's on about

 

[loozzer]

People are saying CAs are going to be disappointed, then calling them deluded when they aren't, and I don't like it.

yea i think clerith got some good stuff and the bad stuff wasn't nearly as bad as i thought. it was more sad than bad. if people want to enjoy it, why not?

 

[Hix]

Spoiler

So from what i can conclude from the ending is that Cloud DOES know she is dead but he is playing it off too casually so he is still coping but im 99% sure by the end he knows she is dead. However him keeping these deep feelings to himself is gonna wreck his emotional state... Tifa having to fix this in Part 3 is gonna be a trainwreck of emotions.

Spoiler

Yeah I think that's a good read, he's definitely losing the plot but you have to remember at this stage in OG he's still able to maintain some composure - in OG he only breaks down once Tifa is unable to stand by him - so he's coping a bit at the end. There was a hesitancy with his line "but what if...what if something happens?" after which he basically just "k bye"s her.

Spoiler

I did not get that Cloud knows she's dead at all. Barret and Tifa also look like they're silently acknowledging he's off his rocker too. Especially when he starts talking about the sky. Even though no one else knows wtf he's on about

Spoiler

Thats fair, but they DO have a farewell and he's definitely aware that she won't be back. It's hard to say with any certainty because his mental state is collapsing but there were no promises about seeing each other again, or some such, at the end. It was literally just bye.

Edit: Sorry about all the spoiler boxes. All related to the ending.