SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Suffi]

Pretty much they made him a second character in this story. Cloud and company are going through the ‘A’ storyline (the OG storyline) and Zack is going through the ‘B’ storyline.

 

[GamerSkull]

Interviews with the developers have stated that Zack’s role in the trilogy is to explain how the mythos of the FFVII world works.


Here the article for further reading.

GameInformer - The Final Level

Yes, but that could have been done with any character. They specifically chose Zack… and they specifically highlighted his desire to reunite with Aerith.

 

[Roundhouse]

Rebirth spoiler talk allowed in here?

 

[Ghost X]

^I have advised the powers that be of the popular view toward such a change post-release, so I imagine it'll happen shortly.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Yeah that was my take from this too, just Aerith doing Aerith things, I think she's mostly teasing.

- one commented before on how energetic she was while Cloud is too stoic - (of course Zack would have par that energy) although difference can sometimes have a good dynamic

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- honest imagine if we can have double date for these 2 couples?
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Cloud is just too stoic and honesty it feels like a drag but he seems to feel bad about her and just going along with it. Of course she's a comrade a friend.

After remembering Zack nor her being his girlfriend i think he likes to takes responsibility on tellin her what happened.

- clearly and completely different on how he treats Tifa. The Gondola date for example.. Aerith wanted Cloud to sit closer but he sitted opposite direction

While Tifa respectedly sits farther from him & Cloud wanted to believe closer. When she sited him looking at her during the fireworks he got very shy and changed topic to ask about Aerith. Hehe

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Spoiler: Question

Has anybody with better lip reading skills that mine been able to make out what it is Aerith mouths to Tifa just after Cloud and Tifa’s almost kiss in Gongaga and Tifa opens the door to find Yuffie, Cait Sith, and Aerith listening in?

 

[shady]

Spoiler: Question

Has anybody with better lip reading skills that mine been able to make out what it is Aerith mouths to Tifa just after Cloud and Tifa’s almost kiss in Gongaga and Tifa opens the door to find Yuffie, Cait Sith, and Aerith listening in?

Not in the slightest, i’m torn between it’s really important otherwise why blank it, or it’s just something meant to be understood between two women in the moment and it’s of no consequence to us. Either way considering what Aerith does later it rubs me the wrong way cause she clearly knows what happened in that room, it’s confusing as hell

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't know for sure but someone was saying in the other thread it was "good luck" or something though they might just have been speculating.

Random musings -

You know for me part of the appeal of CA especially from original OG to me was eventually you could move on with a first love instead of being beholden to them for the rest of your life more specifically Aerith here, that in the end you are thinking of wanting to move on with another and that something different might happen there, in Aerith's case with someone different from first love even though initially she was curious about the similarities.

Something that also appealed to me was the idea as Aerith as independent living her own life that in the end she never really got to. So in the end if Cloud and Zack work together to save Aerith it should not be on a premise she will end up with either one of them.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Not in the slightest, i’m torn between it’s really important otherwise why blank it, or it’s just something meant to be understood between two women in the moment and it’s of no consequence to us. Either way considering what Aerith does later it rubs me the wrong way cause she clearly knows what happened in that room, it’s confusing as hell

Is this specifically in regard to the Sector 5 and church scene, or does Aerith do something else after Gongaga to make you think this?

I’m still very early in the game myself (the Grasslands is Final Fantasy VII’s equivalent to the Hinterlands from Dragon Age: Inquisition, and I mean that as the BIGGEST compliment also the party banter out in the field is giving me life) so will not be getting to these scenes and story beats any time soon and I’m trying to avoid out of context scene watching on YouTube but would appreciate some insights going forward

 

[thetriplerhyme]

You know for me part of the appeal of CA especially from original OG to me was eventually you could move on with a first love instead of being beholden to them for the rest of your life more specifically Aerith here, that in the end you are thinking of wanting to move on with another and that something different might happen there, in Aerith's case with someone different from first love even though initially she was curious about the similarities.

The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other - Aerith's profile FFVII CC Ultimania.

People with similiar actions and new person may come but a Zack Fair for Aerith cannot be replaced not by anyone. This is the story written, that's why even with a new love ( even if she wanted to take it herself (although one-sided) - i guess just so she can move on ) in the end she cannot.

That last date is a proff that she cannot let go of it too ~ same way that Zack refuses to forget about Aerith even on last moment ( DMW )

 

[Maidenofwar]

Yes, but it doesn't mean I have to love it, or the idea of having two similar ships instead of two different ones, that's why I liked OG for having two different premises (childhood to lovers) and another. This was before the Crisis Core release.

 

[shady]

Is this specifically in regard to the Sector 5 and church scene, or does Aerith do something else after Gongaga to make you think this?

I’m still very early in the game myself (the Grasslands is Final Fantasy VII’s equivalent to the Hinterlands from Dragon Age: Inquisition, and I mean that as the BIGGEST compliment also the party banter out in the field is giving me life) so will not be getting to these scenes and story beats any time soon and I’m trying to avoid out of context scene watching on YouTube but would appreciate some insights going forward

Yeah specifically those scenes (and maybe after though that’s a whole different thing I think)

 

[shady]

Spoiler

The current discourse surround this LTD (obviously we know the major game progreession between C&T in the game culminating in the kiss) is about Cloud and Aerith interlocking fingers and how it means “koibito tsunagi” or “lovers tie” apparently, seemingly it’s a big thing in Japan? Like if they wanted the LTD to rumble on they certainly achieved it by giving both girls something. Would love anyone with more insight to chip in on this

 

[JaeKony]

Spoiler

The current discourse surround this LTD (obviously we know the major game progreession between C&T in the game culminating in the kiss) is about Cloud and Aerith interlocking fingers and how it means “koibito tsunagi” or “lovers tie” apparently, seemingly it’s a big thing in Japan? Like if they wanted the LTD to rumble on they certainly achieved it by giving both girls something. Would love anyone with more insight to chip in on this

Yup it’s a Japanese phrase and type of handholding westerners typically see a lot in anime. I’m not saying that you’re implying that it’s ONLY a big thing in Japan, but I think anyone who plays the game, even if they’re not aware of Eastern slang or terminology,

Spoiler

can see that the “interlocking handhold” between Cloud and Aerith is meant to be really intimate. I don’t really see why there needs to be discourse over it though. I’m happy that other enthusiastic fans like me were able to make a connection between their fav scenes in Rebirth and a Japanese term. However, I personally think that comparing “koibito tsunagi“ and kissing is like comparing apples to oranges if you get what I mean.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Spoiler

The current discourse surround this LTD (obviously we know the major game progreession between C&T in the game culminating in the kiss) is about Cloud and Aerith interlocking fingers and how it means “koibito tsunagi” or “lovers tie” apparently, seemingly it’s a big thing in Japan? Like if they wanted the LTD to rumble on they certainly achieved it by giving both girls something. Would love anyone with more insight to chip in on this

Spoiler

I don’t have any knowledge on that lovers tie thing myself, but it’s clear Rebirth went to great pains to establish the close connections Cloud forges with both women. But regardless of what happens, there’s still a third game left to resolve a lot of unrevealed story beats, especially concerning Cloud’s identity crisis and Zack’s fate. It’s telling that in Rebirth Aerith and Zack don’t properly interact, yet, as they’re saving that all for the third game. Same for the Lifestream and Highwind scenes for Cloud and Tifa, scenes which have already had the groundwork laid down by a lot of what happens in Rebirth.

I ultimately think it’s fair that both women got those important moments. It means fans of both can’t say that the character was either neglected or done a disservice, either by the stuff that happens in the main narrative, and the added optional stuff.

The distinction I think to make however going forward is that, while there’s no issue with the discourse being around one moment or another, if it’s convincing people that it means the narrative is going to go in their favoured direction, then that’s when I think it’s important to remember a few important factors.

Aerith dies, and says her farewells at the end.
She is of course going to have a part to play in Part 3, but they would have to bring her back to life for her to be a full party member again, which I don’t think they’ll do, given what’s been said by the developers and the nature of her final scenes itself. If their interlocked handholding is to be their final romantic moment after defeating Sephiroth, and the church scene acting as a coda or resolution to the story of their relationship that has been developed thus far, then I say it’s a good one, and from the majority of response from fans of Cloud and Aerith, it’s been a well received one.

Aerith never had this closure in the original.

The other major factor is, of course, Zack. There’s still a lot left unanswered and unresolved. His last line about worlds uniting heavily implies that the build up to him properly reuniting with Aerith will pay off in Part 3. They wouldn’t have laid all that groundwork in Rebirth for their to be no reunion between the two of them, and in what form that takes I can’t say, all I will say is I’m confident the developers know that after having done right by the Cloud and Aerith relationship in Rebirth, it’s time for their to also be a suitable conclusion and resolution to the Zack and Aerith one as well.

Lastly, and despite Tifa getting a lot more development and screen time in Rebirth, the major important and iconic plot points of her story and the story of her and Cloud is yet to come in Part 3. I think the discourse around then will be different to how it is now, because as the middle point of the trilogy, where Aerith is the inevitable focus and driving force of the story, it’s natural for her to be discussed a lot at the moment, and that of her relationship with Cloud which also has focus.

It needed to be there otherwise her death scene would lack impact.

Discussion as to whether the intended impact of that scene was delivered or not I think varies person to person given the complicated nature of how the scene ultimately plays out, but Aerith being placed prominently in a lot of the major scenes and plot points of the game is so that when she does die, and she won’t be alongside us anymore going forward, we feel that absence as we are meant to feel what Cloud and the party feels by her being gone.

Personally I’m enjoying my time with Aerith knowing like in the original she won’t be with us in part 3. And yeah I’ll miss her.

I’ll have a lot more to talk about in regards to Aerith’s characterisation the more I play, but a lot of my initial impressions and concerns are waning simply because I’ve always liked Aerith overall, I thought her character in Remake was excellent and while I was disappointed her memories were taken away and thus a lot of what made her unique in Remake I actually think it serves Rebirth’s story better by her not being omnipotent anymore, and her dynamics with all the other party members and not just Cloud is making me really enjoy the game so far.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Can I ask (to shady) what you were expecting Aerith to do after

Spoiler

she and Cloud were cast off into the sky at the end of Temple of the Ancients?

 

[shady]

I’m not sure what you mean exactly?

Spoiler

My point was just that Aerith seems to know whats happening between C&T but from later down the line that doesn’t seem to matter at all, it was just odd writing to me is all.

Also apparently people were selectively cutting out points about the hand holding thing, namely the parts about friends and family

 

[Empyrea]

Not Japanese here, but as a fellow Asian to them, I'll point out that I've mentioned a few pages ago that siblings also do that.
My sister holds my hand like that all time when we're out shopping.

 

[faefolk]

I’m not sure what you mean exactly?

Spoiler

My point was just that Aerith seems to know whats happening between C&T but from later down the line that doesn’t seem to matter at all, it was just odd writing to me is all.

Also apparently people were selectively cutting out points about the hand holding thing, namely the parts about friends and family

Hey I looked up an article in Japanese and translated it to English. There is deadass full on articles about this

I did it under a spoiler tag cause it's a lot of text. This is the section on if you're not dating. This is in a romance article though.

Spoiler

"[If before dating]
Connecting with a lover is proof of goodwill
There are hurdles to connecting with a lover even if you are not dating. Despite this, the first thing that comes to mind when someone holds your hand is that they are trying their best to deepen the relationship. It is thought that there are feelings such as `I want to build a good relationship'' and `I want to convey that I have goodwill.''

There are also cases where you want to check if the other person likes you by their reaction when you try to hold their hands. When someone you're interested in tries to connect you with a lover, it's your chance to give them a clear sign that they're interested.

There is also the possibility of just skinship...
However, there are cases where even if there are no romantic feelings, they just hook up because they miss the human touch or want to enjoy the atmosphere of being in a relationship. Some people may think that body touching is acceptable even before dating, so it's best not to think of it as a sign of goodwill.

If you are asked to become a lover by someone you are unsure of, carefully check to see if they are doing it out of goodwill, or if it is just a flirtation or ulterior motive."

 

[Hix]

Random musings -

You know for me part of the appeal of CA especially from original OG to me was eventually you could move on with a first love instead of being beholden to them for the rest of your life more specifically Aerith here, that in the end you are thinking of wanting to move on with another and that something different might happen there, in Aerith's case with someone different from first love even though initially she was curious about the similarities.

Just a thought, but, Cleriths would have to consider that this works the other way too, vis, by Advent Children Aerith is shown with Zack and that's the final word on the matter - accentuated by Aerith's yellow flowers blooming on Zack's resting place and Zack's buster sword sitting in the Sector 5 Church, an eternity together awaits. One could argue that while she may have indeed desired a relationship with Cloud in life, that this ship has sailed (pardon the pun) and she has decided also to move on. She is not beholden to Cloud and even less so he to her.

 

[faefolk]

Not Japanese here, but as a fellow Asian to them, I'll point out that I've mentioned a few pages ago that siblings also do that.
My sister holds my hand like that all time when we're out shopping.

And on Japanese yahoo they have a question about this pertaining to friendship. The below answer echos some other answers also. A big thing in a few of the articles mention lovers, close friends or family like 'skinship' with close people based on the atmosphere and wanting to give support. But a bunch state that it can be taken as an expression of romantic interest (which no doubt explains why Aerith seems so excited by it) and that you should confirm this with words and not assume because it can mean different things to different people.

'I don't think it's weird. Actually, I do it too ^^; I don't do it with my regular friends, but I often do it with my close friends. Some guys say it's disgusting, but I don't really care lol'

 

[Empyrea]

Will confirm that it can mean differently depending on individuals.

There's my sister. But I've also held hands with my best friend whenever one's comforting the other.

...and I've definitely had a guy immediately gun for an intertwined hand hold before. No offering first or anything.

But then there's adults saying you only hold hands with your girl/boyfriend. And we even had old school rules forbidding handholding cause it falls under PDA. Asia is weird, man (or my part of Asia, if not just my country).

 

[JaeKony]

Will confirm that it can mean differently depending on individuals.

There's my sister. But I've also held hands with my best friend whenever one's comforting the other.

...and I've definitely had a guy immediately gun for an intertwined hand hold before. No offering first or anything.

But then there's adults saying you only hold hands with your girl/boyfriend. And we even had old school rules forbidding handholding cause it falls under PDA. Asia is weird, man (or my part of Asia, if not just my country).

Sounds like we are all on the same page here. こいびとつなぎ (koibito tsunagi) is undoubtedly “intimate” but still vague enough to be open to interpretation. It’s a great ambiguous (slightly romantic-leading) representation of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship.

Also, anyone else feel like the topic of this thread has shifted from Cloud Tifa Aerith to Cloud Aerith Zack? XD

Feel free to chime in if you feel different, but there’s really no way to discuss ambiguity in Cloud/Tifa’s relationship now that he has straight up kissed her.

 

[Empyrea]

Also, anyone else feel like the topic of this thread has shifted from Cloud Tifa Aerith to Cloud Aerith Zack? XD

I definitely thought this is the case. xD

 

[faefolk]

Will confirm that it can mean differently depending on individuals.

There's my sister. But I've also held hands with my best friend whenever one's comforting the other.

...and I've definitely had a guy immediately gun for an intertwined hand hold before. No offering first or anything.

But then there's adults saying you only hold hands with your girl/boyfriend. And we even had old school rules forbidding handholding cause it falls under PDA. Asia is weird, man (or my part of Asia, if not just my country).

I don't know which part of Asia you're from but definitely it's all very culturally different from the anglosphere. Three of my closest friends are all from different parts of East Asia and say frequently that a lot of cultural subtlety that's lost on the Western audience when it comes to popular culture things that make it over here. Even just in the subbing and dubbing.