SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryeleigh]

So it’s just referring to “loved ones” in general and not necessarily Aerith? So when Tifa says “let’s go see her”, does she just mean “Let’s go see them?”

JaeKony already gave a link to a comprehensive answer, lol, but basically in Japanese, it's just "let's go see". From my admittedly limited Japanese studies, they tend to drop pronouns when it's obvious from context who or what they're talking about. So basically, the complete opposite of Western shipping wars that ignore all context.

But as I interpreted it, the context is that they think they're about to die but at least they'll get to see [the people] who are already dead again. As I keep saying, I'm fine with people seeing Aerith/Cloud as romantic since that means that's the way they played the game* but it just rubs me the wrong way when people make Aerith's death and this instance solely about Cloud's assumed romantic feelings for her.

*Though, that still requires one to ignore Tifa whom Cloud chooses to romance regardless of player input/choices. So in that regard, FF7 would be a pretty bad "choose your own adventure waifu" game. Imagine romancing someone in Dragon Age and getting a romantic resolution with a completely different character.

Also, what Ryushikaze said.

 

[GamerSkull]

That actually clears up a whole lot tbh. I’ve always been curious about that moment at the end of the OG Final Fantasy.

I wonder if, assuming Part 3 plays out the same way, the translation for that scene will be much clearer this time around.

 

[JaeKony]

That actually clears up a whole lot tbh. I’ve always been curious about that moment at the end of the OG Final Fantasy.

I wonder if, assuming Part 3 plays out the same way, the translation for that scene will be much clearer this time around.

I‘m genuinely not sure it will be clearer. However, even if they keep it the same, “I think I can meet her there,” I don’t think C/A fans can use that line anymore as definitive proof that their ship has sailed. We’ve discussed it so much already but:

Spoiler

the kiss between Cloud and Tifa in Rebirth has trumped any previous arguments for canonicity regarding Cloti. i.e. things are no longer “open to interpretation“ between Cloud and Tifa. In comparison, every single “romantic” interactions from Cloud and Aerith in Rebirth can (and probably will be) subject to debate that boils down to either “she’s still confused about her feelings towards Zack” or “Cloud isn’t himself.”

Part 3 is still a long time away but, assuming they keep the same tone for C/A, the line, “I think I can meet her there,” can just mean anything at this point. Fans CAN interpret it as romantic, but Cloud (and Tifa) wanting to see Aerith again can also be representative of them wanting to see ALL of their lost loved ones (which I think is a more beautiful representation of mortality, belief, and the afterlife)

 

[GamerSkull]

I‘m genuinely not sure it will be clearer. However, even if they keep it the same, “I think I can meet her there,” I don’t think C/A fans can use that line anymore as definitive proof that their ship has sailed. We’ve discussed it so much already but:

Spoiler

the kiss between Cloud and Tifa in Rebirth has trumped any previous arguments for canonicity regarding Cloti. i.e. things are no longer “open to interpretation“ between Cloud and Tifa. In comparison, every single “romantic” interactions from Cloud and Aerith in Rebirth can (and probably will be) subject to debate that boils down to either “she’s still confused about her feelings towards Zack” or “Cloud isn’t himself.”

Part 3 is still a long time away but, assuming they keep the same tone for C/A, the line, “I think I can meet her there,” can just mean anything at this point. Fans CAN interpret it as romantic, but Cloud (and Tifa) wanting to see Aerith again can also be representative of them wanting to see ALL of their lost loved ones (which I think is a more beautiful representation of mortality, belief, and the afterlife)

I also think the interpretation of meeting ALL of their loved ones in the “Promised Land” lines up better with one of the biggest themes of OG FF7 versus the more romantic interpretation of just Aerith.

 

[BoxFBall]

That actually clears up a whole lot tbh. I’ve always been curious about that moment at the end of the OG Final Fantasy.

I wonder if, assuming Part 3 plays out the same way, the translation for that scene will be much clearer this time around.

I still think SE can dead this whole debate by simply giving us CloudXXXTifa: Under The Highwind, since it seems like that might be the only thing to finally end this debate.

The man aint ever even kissed his own mama on screen, yet his kiss with Tifa isn't romantic, you can't make this shit up. Lmao

 

[shady]

I also think the interpretation of meeting ALL of their loved ones in the “Promised Land” lines up better with one of the biggest themes of OG FF7 versus the more romantic interpretation of just Aerith.

It boils down the message of Death, Grief, Reunion etc to basically Cloud just wants to be with Aerith because of love. Like, doesn't the guy want to see his own mother or anything? There's a lot of talk about Aerith and how much that affected him, Zack too, but what about his poor mother like.

Often times, for Cloud and Aerith to work -- the way people want it to currently work that is -- means basically stripping Cloud of a lot of his character and also turning him into an asshole, it's kinda weird.

 

[GamerSkull]

It boils down the message of Death, Grief, Reunion etc to basically Cloud just wants to be with Aerith because of love. Like, doesn't the guy want to see his own mother or anything? There's a lot of talk about Aerith and how much that affected him, Zack too, but what about his poor mother like.

Often times, for Cloud and Aerith to work -- the way people want it to currently work that is -- means basically stripping Cloud of a lot of his character and also turning him into an asshole, it's kinda weird.

Yeah, all the arguments for a post-death Clerith is predicated on the idea that Tifa is just a substitute wife/loading screen while Cloud waits to reunite with Aerith after death… which not only makes Cloud seem like an asshole but it also seems to imply that if a loved one dies, people should hope for death so they can have a reunion.

 

[Empyrea]

I also think the interpretation of meeting ALL of their loved ones in the “Promised Land” lines up better with one of the biggest themes of OG FF7 versus the more romantic interpretation of just Aerith.

And even themes aside, it serves as a call back to what started Cloud's entire arc, he and Tifa falling off a bridge 'cause she was hoping the local legend of meeting the dead past the mountain is true.

...That line also confused me when I first played it haha.

 

[Empyrea]

It boils down the message of Death, Grief, Reunion etc to basically Cloud just wants to be with Aerith because of love. Like, doesn't the guy want to see his own mother or anything? There's a lot of talk about Aerith and how much that affected him, Zack too, but what about his poor mother like.

Often times, for Cloud and Aerith to work -- the way people want it to currently work that is -- means basically stripping Cloud of a lot of his character and also turning him into an asshole, it's kinda weird.

The funny thing is, off the top of my head, during the Lifestream sequence, when Cloud goes face to face with Sephiroth, he says something like,
"Mom... Tifa... my town... Give it back."

Cloud is a real softie.

Edit to add: The insistence on changing Cloud's core character to push a shipping pair to be canon is why I think they'd feel more at home with VNs made especially for that. The mcs in those tend to change a bit depending on who you're romancing.

 

[null]

Warning - Don't click if you don't wanna see one of the most dumbass takes you've ever seen in your life

Spoiler

View attachment 14763View attachment 14764

This is what gets spouted everyday. It doesn't help when a prominent Clerith streamer repeats false claims like

"Cloud wanted to die in AC to see Aerith that's why Tifa says a memory or us" - Completely false
"Cloud says at the end of OG that he wants to go meet her there" - Pretty sure at this point is a well known mistranslation?

Ah yes, the classic anime tool kiss. I totally got that same vibe. Cloud effortlessly controlling Tifa, playing with her emotions to advance his secret agenda while pining for his true love.

Spoiler: Identical tool kiss for comparison

 

[GamerSkull]

Ah yes, the classic anime tool kiss. I totally got that same vibe. Cloud effortlessly controlling Tifa, playing with her emotions to advance his secret agenda while pining for his true love.

Spoiler: Identical tool kiss for comparison

View attachment 14774

That comment is just a complete mischaracterization of Cloud, he’d sooner just ignore Tifa rather than just pretend to reciprocate her feelings.

 

[r_monk]

In all honesty, I do believe it is very selfish of the C/A fandom to try and take away the tender moment that C/T shared with each other. This one moment has been built up since Remake with them rolling off the train. With the payoff at the GS date. It was a long build up (slow burn if you will) and it is being reduced to a "pitty kiss" just because it doesn't fit a particular "head canon", is insane to me. Especially what Tifa said before said kiss. It is 100% genuine and consensual by both.

I am proud of Cloud breaking through all doubts and reconfirms to Tifa that she is not getting ahead of herself. The character development of these two!

It does feel hurtful

I get that it would be upsetting if you were a CA shipper, but it just sucks because it's such a sweet moment and one that so many of us have been waiting for and even more of us never believed it would ever, ever happen (myself included). Like, I'm still SO happy and so thrown that they wrote that in... just let us have this!!!! These kids clearly effing love each other!!

 

[GamerSkull]

It does feel hurtful

I get that it would be upsetting if you were a CA shipper, but it just sucks because it's such a sweet moment and one that so many of us have been waiting for and even more of us never believed it would ever, ever happen (myself included). Like, I'm still SO happy and so thrown that they wrote that in... just let us have this!!!! These kids clearly effing love each other!!

The hurtful part is that they completely mischaracterize both Tifa and Cloud in order to prop up their ship.

At this point, they are referring to completely different characters than the ones presented in the story.

 

[r_monk]

Sooooo, out of curiosity, does anyone know what the low affection date with Tifa looks like haha

 

[Graymouse]

I think what would end the LTD for good. In the OG where Red takes his cubs to see Midgar 500 years after the events of FF7, they can do something like show the old graves of Tifa Strife and Cloud Strife and their children.

What could anyone argue at that point?

 

[shady]

Sooooo, out of curiosity, does anyone know what the low affection date with Tifa looks like haha

It’s exactly the same except

Spoiler

It cuts out the kiss, so just the confirmation of feelings and the hug

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

It depends on who you ask. C/A shippers would probably tell you he means Aerith specifically (which is also what the English translation implies), but @Ryeleigh is correct in saying that the OG Japanese script does not use a specific pronoun. Here’s a tumblr thread of one person discussing the implications of the line (They back up a lot of their points with evidence from guidebooks, ultimanias, and official material):
https://dutchdread.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F647488607324635136

Hi. i usually just lurk but I'm KageSakura (CA shipper but multishipper for context) who posted some of that info so I just wanted to add my two cents.

Yeah exactly this.

I think the main problem I see with this line is there are CA's will fight tooth and nail for it to be just about Aerith with the sentiment that Tifa is third wheeling. Which as pointed out doesn't make sense in context.

While some CT's will be adamant and have argued with me that it can't be about Aerith at ALL even though the Ultimania quote is literally right there lol. (It's a mistake or mistranslation!) Also no, that makes no sense in context either.

And if neither side can concede on either of these points that

1. Yes it IS about Aerith but not to the exclusion of everything and everyone else
2. and the context can be more than be romantic and more likely a nice callback to the truth of the PromisedLand being the place we reunite with our loved ones after death... With two people having a conversation about it....

We'll just always be an an impasse.

But I do think most people at least here from what I have seen hit the nail on the head and it's actually an amazing scene in context. One of my favorites.

I hope I make sense. There really is a lot of discourse about this line for all the wrong reasons I think.

*Back to lurking! Great thread you have here!

 

[GamerSkull]

Sooooo, out of curiosity, does anyone know what the low affection date with Tifa looks like haha

Basically the exact same, just fades away after the hug though. It’s the one I got, gonna have to make sure to max it out next time I do a playthrough.

 

[r_monk]

It’s exactly the same except

Spoiler

It cuts out the kiss, so just the confirmation of feelings and the hug

Oh wow okay so still pretty good.

 

[GamerSkull]

Oh wow okay so still pretty good.

I expect the Highwind scene will be similar. A LA version would probably just fade away earlier. But they’ll show more for HA.

This is assuming Part 3 also has an affinity system, of course.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Oh wow okay so still pretty good.

We still get to see "not one bit"

Basically the exact same, just fades away after the hug though. It’s the one I got, gonna have to make sure to max it out next time I do a playthrough.

- mine is RED hehehheeh I'm aiming for all boys date but damned I thought it can be done on 1st playthrough i guess not

 

[null]

Hot take. I know a lot of fans are looking forward to a HA Highwind sex tape, but... nah, I'm good. Not against it per se, but the date already got the point across. There's no ambiguity left. The writers closed the book on volumes of ancient propaganda. Shipper buffoonery aside, everyone knows exactly what's going on between those two.

And we all know explicit evidence of sex won't end the debate... we'll just hear more tall tales like Cloud clearly picturing Aerith while having sex with someone else... like he's Geralt of Rivia... and every little detail will be warped (look, they're interlacing their fingers... clearly a Rebirth callback!)

What I really want is a scene full of subtlety and body language and things left unspoken, which the games have been delivering in spades every time those two are alone with each other. Then do like the OG and slow fade out while panning upward, suggesting a private moment. That's the bar and everything else is gravy. (Or whatever, do the Mass Effect naked swaying thing if you want. Maybe leave out the Embrace Eternity part).

Also, please leave Aerith and Zack out of those scenes. Don't fall to the temptation of having their ghosts do some comedy bit from the bushes.

 

[GamerSkull]

Hot take. I know a lot of fans are looking forward to a HA Highwind sex tape, but... nah, I'm good. Not against it per se, but the date already got the point across. There's no ambiguity left. The writers closed the book on volumes of ancient propaganda. Shipper buffoonery aside, everyone knows exactly what's going on between those two.

And we all know explicit evidence of sex won't end the debate... we'll just hear more tall tales like Cloud clearly picturing Aerith while having sex with someone else... like he's Geralt of Rivia... and every little detail will be warped (look, they're interlacing their fingers... clearly a Rebirth callback!)

What I really want is a scene full of subtlety and body language and things left unspoken, which the games have been delivering in spades every time those two are alone with each other. Then do like the OG and slow fade out while panning upward, suggesting a private moment. That's the bar and everything else is gravy. (Or whatever, do the Mass Effect naked swaying thing if you want. Maybe leave out the Embrace Eternity part).

Also, please leave Aerith and Zack out of those scenes. Don't fall to the temptation of having their ghosts do some comedy bit from the bushes.

Honestly, I think they just need to imply it. Just enough to get the point across, like a fade to black and then just lying next to each other. That’s all that’s needed.

 

[null]

Yeah maybe even have Tifa in Cloud's arms while they have their sleepy morning banter. There's lots of tasteful ways for it to play out.

But I do see some folks fully expecting Cinemax After Dark under that ship, lol.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah maybe even have Tifa in Cloud's arms while they have their sleepy morning banter. There's lots of tasteful ways for it to play out.

But I do see some folks fully expecting Cinemax After Dark under that ship, lol.

Yeah, I believe that’s unlikely lol