SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Empyrea]

For this reason, I don't consider Cloud to be Aerith's deepest or most important relationship in the game. To me, it's Tifa (and now I'll add Nanaki, too). And that's also why ACC annoys me because there's like zero AerTi content aside from like 2 lines total which pisses me off lol

The Aerti shipper in me was happy enough with those two lines. Cloud actually talked to Aerith (maybe? Because there's room to interpret the one he talks to during the ride to the Forgotten City as his imagination) and sees her during the Bahamut fight, but Tifa knew felt her presence just from a drop of water. They're connected, I swear

On a more serious note, in OG, Cloud's speech to Seph came off to me as a little odd, but Tifa bawling her heart out and running off while crying after the water burial (iirc) left me feeling like the game deprived me of what could've been a great friendship that I should've seen but I didn't cause I'm stuck in Cloud's POV

Hear, hear! Croix and Mir are the gold standard of gaming romances IMO, the build up, the ups and downs, then the final payoff. So unbelievably beautiful and I can't not cry at the song. Perfection.

So nice to see someone else who appreciates these games and characters, cause I feel like we're a rare breed lol

Ikr?! It's only been a decade since I last to talked to someone else who likes Ar Tonelico!

 

[starcape91]

A nice touch is Tifa is super angry when you enter the fight against JENOVA after Aerith’s death. She yells “screw you!”

Later on you fight with Tifa and Cait Sith. Tifa asks Cait how he is. Cait says “better than this thing will be in a few minutes” and Tifa says “you got that right” she is seething.

 

[Eerie]

in OG, Cloud's speech to Seph came off to me as a little odd

You know, I have wondered for the longest time if, in that speech, Cloud was not trying to prove to Sephiroth that he was a human and not a puppet lol. "Look, my eyes are burning, I'm feeling all sad, I'm a freaking human!"

 

[starcape91]

You know, I have wondered for the longest time if, in that speech, Cloud was not trying to prove to Sephiroth that he was a human and not a puppet lol. "Look, my eyes are burning, I'm feeling all sad, I'm a freaking human!"

Oooh, the JENOVA cells being controlled by Sephiroth are blocking out his emotions because Sephiroth wants him to believe he’s a puppet!

 

[JaeKony]

Just because the song keeps coming up and I like dissecting lyrics, I'm going to go through it verse by verse and give my personal thoughts and insights just in case anyone's interested.

Spoiler

VERSE 1:
Walking city streets with worn cobblestones
Listening to people rushing past to rhythms all their own
Life passing me by, not thinking how the years have flown
Until I met you

Aerith is living her life in a monotonous routine. She's a florist from the slums who makes her way to the upper city to sell flowers--a dream she started with Zack and has been carrying out on her own w/o him. She's gotten into such a routine that she doesn't even think about how much time has passed until she meets Cloud.

VERSE 2:
I won't say that it was fate
I won't say that it was destiny
But if not, what could it be
That drew you towards me?
Could it be chance?

Aerith has no idea what drew Cloud toward her (except she does lol) and she muses on whether or not it's fate, destiny, or chance. We know from a meta / narrative POV that it was indeed fate/destiny thanks to the existence of the whispers. Still, Aerith is waxing poetic here about her fated meeting w/ Cloud on the street and wondering if it means and something and if it does... what does it mean, exactly?

VERSE 3:
Till the day that we meet again
Where or when I wish I could say
But believe—know that you'll find me
Promises to keep, we won't ever need

Cloud and Aerith go their separate ways after their first meeting. Of course, she was initially intrigued/knew of him before he knew of her, etc. so she's wondering when they'll meet again. She knows that he'll find her somehow, probably, and he does when he falls through the church at Sector 5.

Alternatively, this verse can also be read as her thinking about Zack as meeting Cloud was a reminder of how much time has passed as she said in verse 1.

VERSE 4:
If only I'd never known
All the burdens I was born to bear
Lived a life without a care
In the world save for you...but that won't do

This verse is about Aerith's loneliness and how she's burdened with the responsibility of being the last Cetra. She wishes she could've lived her life w/o caring about anything except for romance/falling in love. This is not her reality though, as she plainly states here.

VERSE 5:
Till the day that we meet again
On our street, I want to believe
In the chance that we'll share a glance
Promises to keep, we won't ever need

Aerith hopes that one day she and Cloud will meet again on Loveless street and that they'll at least be friendly enough to share a glance. They won't need to speak to each other, or have a relationship for her to be happy with their connection so long as they can acknowledge one another.

VERSE 6-7:
Till the day that we meet again
At our place, just let me believe
In the chance that you'll come
Take my hand and never let me go

Take my hand
And believe
We can be
Together evermore

This is in direct contrast to verse 5, which makes me believe that this verse and verse 3 are NOT about Cloud. She just said in verse 5 that she would be happy if she and Cloud met again on the street and 'shared a glance'. So then why would she be expecting him to show up at 'their place'? The song quite literally separates Loveless Street from 'our place', so these are not the same location otherwise she'd just say 'our street' again.

VERSE 8:
Walking city streets with worn cobblestones
Struggling against the crowds and finding ourselves all alone
Fate and destiny are no guarantee
Still I hope someday you'll come and find me
Still I know someday you'll come and find me

This is where the song kind of becomes meta commentary on the whole multiverse/alternate timeline thing as Aerith goes "back" to her monotonous life of selling flowers on Loveless Street. She knows that what's destined isn't always promised to be a happy ending, still she maintains hope that she'll be found and her journey will start anew.

Got chills reading this. I think is a very valid interpretation that doesn’t discount or denigrate Aerith’s feelings towards Cloud AND Zack.

 

[Empyrea]

You know, I have wondered for the longest time if, in that speech, Cloud was not trying to prove to Sephiroth that he was a human and not a puppet lol. "Look, my eyes are burning, I'm feeling all sad, I'm a freaking human!"

My own thoughts at the time weren't far off!
At the time, I was all, "Dude, if you're trying to tell him he's wrong about you being a puppet... why in the seven hells are you talking like a malfunctioning robot?"

 

[Rin]

I made a post somewhere back after Remake came out. It was about how when Cloud meets Aerith after sneaking out of her house and how there is foreshadowing to the Sleeping Forest scene. I was hoping that Aerith would get similar moments in Rebirth with some of the other characters. Oh well.

I really wanted her to use her Cetra powers to say goodbye to everyone.... I hate how Cloud-centric it all is. I know it's his story, but Aerith had other friends, too and in Case of Tifa, Cloud is actually the one who is emotionally strong about her death and it's Tifa who falls apart.

People misread Tifa's feelings about Cloud delivering flowers to Aerith's grave as jealousy but she's not jealous--she's hurt that he went without her and wouldn't lean on her for emotional support like she did with him. She wanted to know that he trusted her to be there for him but instead he did it alone which led to her believing their relationship had changed. Does he now see her as weak bc she broke down at Aerith's grave the last time they went? Is he avoiding taking her back there because he thinks she can't handle it? Does he resent her for having survivors guilt and missing her best friend? These are all the things that Tifa is struggling with in CoT.

And then the movie just.... handles none of it. Doesn't even bring it up, actually! lmao

I honestly would want a remake of ACC with the new characterisations. Characters in that movie rarely talk and it really bothers me.

Same!! The characters and their dynamics feel so much different now tbh.

The Aerti shipper in me was happy enough with those two lines. Cloud actually talked to Aerith (maybe? Because there's room to interpret the one he talks to during the ride to the Forgotten City as his imagination) and sees her during the Bahamut fight, but Tifa knew felt her presence just from a drop of water. They're connected, I swear

Okay, I won't lie when Tifa says "Somehow, I knew you were there. Thank you." to the water droplet I was like "SEE! REAL SOULMATES!!" but still.... I need More.

 

[starcape91]

Maybe we’ll get something in Part 3 where Aerith communicates with the rest of the party.

If they do remake AC, please have Tifa and Cloud kiss or hug or something so that people will finally accept they’re not living together platonically

 

[Rin]

Maybe we’ll get something in Part 3 where Aerith communicates with the rest of the party.

If they do remake AC, please have Tifa and Cloud kiss or hug or something so that people will finally accept they’re not living together platonically

 

[GamerSkull]

It’s so romantic that Cloud is suicidal.

swoons

 

[Empyrea]

I really wanted her to use her Cetra powers to say goodbye to everyone.... I hate how Cloud-centric it all is. I know it's his story, but Aerith had other friends, too and in Case of Tifa, Cloud is actually the one who is emotionally strong about her death and it's Tifa who falls apart.

People misread Tifa's feelings about Cloud delivering flowers to Aerith's grave as jealousy but she's not jealous--she's hurt that he went without her and wouldn't lean on her for emotional support like she did with him. She wanted to know that he trusted her to be there for him but instead he did it alone which led to her believing their relationship had changed. Does he now see her as weak bc she broke down at Aerith's grave the last time they went? Is he avoiding taking her back there because he thinks she can't handle it? Does he resent her for having survivors guilt and missing her best friend? These are all the things that Tifa is struggling with in CoT.

And then the movie just.... handles none of it. Doesn't even bring it up, actually! lmao

When I saw the summary of CoT, I was just staring at my screen, thinking, "Okay, forget shipping for a second here, why didn't the movie do anything with all this juicy drama and actual display of emotion?"

Cloud in the Retrilogy is great, but I swear, Cloud in OG and AC (esp) just failed to get me to connect with him in the slightest. I now get what it was going for, but.... Cloud could've emoted a little more than he did in the movie, imo.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

A nice touch is Tifa is super angry when you enter the fight against JENOVA after Aerith’s death. She yells “screw you!”

Later on you fight with Tifa and Cait Sith. Tifa asks Cait how he is. Cait says “better than this thing will be in a few minutes” and Tifa says “you got that right” she is seething.

Yes to ALL of this but also I wish dialogue like this wasn’t just combat dialogue, and we actually had more scenes of the party so that we could see and feel their reactions, not just hear it in battle.

I would have loved more scenes where we get a full sense with their body language, their expressions, more of what they are feeling because Aerith was important to ALL of them and I so wished we could have seen more of that

The reason why that single shot of and scene of Tifa, Nanaki and Aerith means so much to me is that it’s possibly the only time we get to see the feelings of the other characters where Cloud isn’t there.

Aerith’s arc shouldn’t feel like it begins and ends with just Cloud. She found a family in all of them, and they deserved their moments where we could see how they felt at her being gone.

 

[insanehobbit]

I ultimately ended up liking the Aerti we got in Rebirth (though I thought Remake was still MUCH better in this respect). Even though all their background glances/giggling was pretty shallow, it was so present throughout the game that it made me believe they were actually besties. Like them bantering/flirting after Cloud & Tifa use their synergy move on the Red Dragon in the Temple of the Ancients was so fucking cute (even if Cloud was a total dick about it afterwards, lmao).

I just wish we could have seen them having a real conversation about a subject that wasn't Cloud or Zack? Kinda bummed that we never saw Aerith confiding in Tifa about losing her memories/the Whispers stuff in Costa del Sol, the way Aerith did with Red, though I guess Tifa comforts her by distracting her from thinking of all that?

I think Tifa was Aerith's purest emotional connection in the party. With Red, it's partially predicated on the two of them being the only ones who can sense the Whispers, and with Cloud there's obviously the Zack stuff getting in the way, but with Tifa, there's no other reason for Aerith to want to spend time with her, other than the fact that they genuinely enjoy each other's company. Like these girls are not trying to catch Cloud's attention when something happens, they're always looking for each other.

Which does make the whole Cloud thing feel very weird. I think the most generous reading (and maybe what they were trying to go for) is that Aerith is trying to convince herself that she's falling in love with Cloud to prove that she can move on from Zack without necessarily wanting Cloud to reciprocate/get in the way of his relationship with Tifa. But, I dunno...it's a very hard line to toe, and I don't think they were successful.

Honestly, if she really wanted to move on, she should have just fallen in love with Tifa, LOL. But SE would never be brave and sexy enough to do that.

 

[Hellenic]

I feel Eyes On Me is also about Laguna and Raine. I am such a sucker for those two even with their limited screen time.

I actually cared about those 2 way more than Squall and Rinoa honestly.

 

[Rin]

Honestly, if she really wanted to move on, she should have just fallen in love with Tifa, LOL. But SE would never be brave and sexy enough to do that.

GOD, SO TRUE.

But honestly, I agree with your whole post. Tifa and Aerith are two sides of the same coin. They both lost their mothers at such pivotal ages and were downright desperate to see them again. Both girls were forced to live in the slums due to circumstances outside of their control. Both girls were just trying their hardest to find some semblance of normalcy after having everything and everyone they cared about taken away from them.

This is why they just immediately click. They understand each other better than anyone else ever could and I really wish the story did more with that.

 

[Stiggie]

uTube, but seeing this moment made me feel something.

It broke my heart seeing Tifa and Red here outwardly mourning and seeking comfort in each other, and Aerith actually displaying a sadness and regret at her not being able to reach them, an

This is one of the reasons I so intensely dislike Clerith as a ship these days. I just find that it poisons everything, it's like an an unwanted fan-ficesque insert in a story that is much better off without it.

These days it's not even just the romance, just the very notion that Aerith and Cloud have ANY special connection to each other outside of the Zack thing feels stupid to me. Nowhere in the past two games have I seen anything that hints at Cloud and Aerith even being particularly close. She's too busy mourning Zack and he's too busy with his own issues, being in love with Tifa, and generally sounding annoyed with Aerith and spurning her advancements. That's not to say he really is that annoyed, he clearly cherishes friends and is pretending not to, that's the entire point and rebirth shows it clearly, Cloud desperately wants bonds. But that doesn't mean that the game can just claim Aerith is special when nothing in the game really highlights her as being more special than a Barret or a Nanaki, her bond with Cloud never stands out from the others in the team and is arguably one of the more negatively portrayed ones. But because the past 20 years have ingrained the idea that Aerith HAS to be special we get these randomly inserted moments where they suddenly force the idea that Aerith is special and it just holds the story back.

Tifa lost everything in Nibelheim, then she finally got a best female friend in Jessie but loses her, we even spent time exploring this in Rebirth. She then picks up the pieces, and finds a new bond with Aerith, and now her new best friend is murdered as well......WHY ARE WE FOLLOWING CLOUD!? Why is the game not looking at the bond between the two girls who were sharing everything together? Aerith who was confiding in Tifa about Zack and helping her with all her worries regarding Cloud, and Tifa who was confiding in Aerith and helping her with her worries regarding Zack. The two girls who were constantly supporting each other, laughing together, going on actual FUN dates, talking about clothes shopping, etc.

No, instead we have to waste time on scenes trying to convince us that Aerith and Clouds bond was special, despite them barely talking and him being 90% pre-occupied with his own failing psyche and feelings regarding Tifa. Dude is barely even able to really feel Jessies death and is more pre-occupied with Tifas pain regarding it, but when the story does the same thing to Tifas new friend she is a second thought?

Make it make sense?

Make me me understand why we can't have a nice story where it's 100% clear that Aerith is living vicariously through Tifa and Cloud and has her own story-arc clearly focused around Zack. We could have had a story of friendship where Cloud and Aeriths bond shines because they were able to explicitly show how the two of them support each other platonically every step of the way. By showing Aerith ACTIVELY helping Cloud and Tifa coming together by pushing him towards Tifa verbally every step of the way and helping him express himself towards her. Same with Tifa, and same with Tifa and Cloud helping her. A story with genuine connections that go deeper than just romance and that shows Cloud and Tifa BOTH together with Aerith because of how they as a couple impacted, and were impacted by, Aerith. That show them together mourning and crying. Why can't we have a story that would make Cloud and Aeriths bond ACTUALLY feel special.

I'll tell you why we can't, because Clerith, that's why, and that's why I can't stand it.

OG Aerith fans (not all of them!) also dislike how much they made her character about Zack (for example, ribbon, pink, flower-selling, five years of grieving and longing) but considering how much Cloud and Tifa's characters and storylines are tied into each other, I'm not exactly sure what else they expected from the other FF7 romance? ¯\(ツ)/¯

Lets be honest, it's not that they're angry they made her character about Zack, that's just pretense. They're angry because they wanted Aerith x Cloud and Zack ruined that. Yet another reason I am so sick of anything to do with Cloud and Aerith.

This is literally the ONLY moment from the ending I like because I believe Tifa is her only authentically deep connection (aside from Nanaki).

Yeah, and apparently its barely a footnote, why? Because Clerith.

I really wanted her to use her Cetra powers to say goodbye to everyone.... I hate how Cloud-centric it all is. I know it's his story, but Aerith had other friends, too and in Case of Tifa, Cloud is actually the one who is emotionally strong about her death and it's Tifa who falls apart.

Yes, and why?.....

 

[Stiggie]

I actually cared about those 2 way more than Squall and Rinoa honestly.

Not a surprise, it's Zack vs Cloud all over again. Like Zack Laguna was fun and carefree and nice, Squall was a depressing mess.
I am sure some people like his character but for me he was just Cloud without the redeeming underlying psychology.

 

[GamerSkull]

Not a surprise, it's Zack vs Cloud all over again. Like Zack Laguna was fun and carefree and nice, Squall was a depressing mess.
I am sure some people like his character but for me he was just Cloud without the redeeming underlying psychology.

I like Kingdom Hearts Squall.

FF8 Squall not so much.

 

[Hellenic]

I realise my post a while back about Aerith and the ending made me sound very hateful of it, and I still am for the most part given my view it’s immensely disrespectful to Aerith and her character and just very messy BUT

the ending as it stands also has one of my favourite shots from these two games

Spoiler

View attachment 14866

I haven’t gotten to the ending so my proper emotional response to it in my playthrough may well be very different to my initial response just spoiling it for myself (willingly lol) on YouTube, but seeing this moment made me feel something.

It broke my heart seeing Tifa and Red here outwardly mourning and seeking comfort in each other, and Aerith actually displaying a sadness and regret at her not being able to reach them, and then when Red is able to sense her presence, that made me feel something because it was one of the few instances where it was emotionally resonating with me because it was anchored in other characters emotions and feelings at the moment. It was a sweet, small, tender character driven moment and I just wish there was so much more emphasis on THIS as opposed to the bait and switching, the vagueness and mystery that deprives the final hours it’s much needed moments of emotion.

Spoiler

This Tifa with Red moment here was the moment that got to me the most from the whole ending, besides some of the earlier things we saw in the Temple too.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Shady, I meant to answer-

I hope this helps.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIrbljTXIAA9Owi?format=jpg&name=medium

 

[Rin]

If they do remake AC, please have Tifa and Cloud kiss or hug or something so that people will finally accept they’re not living together platonically

Ok on a serious note about this, I always found it so funny when people said CT sleeps in separate beds bc there were 2 beds in the room they're in.... as if that wasn't Denzel and Marlenes room. Ah, this fandom is so funny. Then their next argument was that Cloud has 'his own room' while ignoring that his room is actually just his office lmaoooo

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Spoiler

This Tifa with Red moment here was the moment that got to me the most from the whole ending, besides some of the earlier things we saw in the Temple too.

Spoiler

I have a growing sense that, once more people finish the game and see the ending, that the moment with Tifa and Red is going to resonate with more people, and be one of the more strongly and fondly remembered aspects of the ending.

The moment deserves it.

It’s beautiful and grounded in empathy and real emotions we the audience can understand and connect to.

It’s the closest we ever get to the original’s scene where you get to see the individual members of your party have their own small private reactions to her passing.

 

[Rose Alive]

I like Kingdom Hearts Squall.

FF8 Squall not so much.

Kingdom Hearts Squall did a really good job showing who he'd become years down the road due to his relationships with his friends and with Rinoa. It was the leader we saw potiental with in VIII.

 

[GamerSkull]

Ok on a serious note about this, I always found it so funny when people said CT sleeps in separate beds bc there were 2 beds in the room they're in.... as if that wasn't Denzel and Marlenes room. Ah, this fandom is so funny. Then their next argument was that Cloud has 'his own room' while ignoring that his room is actually just his office lmaoooo

OTWTS: Tifa implies they sleep in the same room at the very least. Cloud wakes up and it seems like her being there is nothing surprising to him.

 

[starcape91]

I will put this in a spoiler because I know some of you haven't gotten to this point in the game yet, but one good thing about Aerith in the end is that

Spoiler

as you approach her praying at the altar she is praying for her friends - all of them, saying all she wants is to save them and how much they all mean to her.