SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[starcape91]

Laguna and Raine > Squall and Rinoa

Don’t @ me.

As an aside, Zack and Laguna would totally be best friends.

I like Squall and Rinoa, but I might agree with you, simply because Laguna is so freaking likeable.

I was going to say the same thing about Zack and Laguna lol

 

[starcape91]

Sorry for double post, but I also struggle to think of anyone Zack wouldn’t get along with. He becomes such fast friends with Biggs, Marlene and Elmyra. Even though his scenes near the end are confusing as heck, he’s just rolling with it, going on about his dreams and how everyone should have dreams and everyone matters and all I can say is “Oh Zack I love you.”

 

[Empyrea]

Laguna and Raine > Squall and Rinoa

Don’t @ me.

As an aside, Zack and Laguna would totally be best friends.

Can't disagree with you when Laguna is the one guy I like in FF8 and Raine is great for what little time she was a part of the story.

Re: the songs... I'm not a big music buff (not in the slightest) so while I find the interpretations you guys have fascinating, I definitely can't say I would've thought of them myself.

That said, people going on and on about them is...a thing that I think can get really obsessive sometimes. I find it's supposed to be more something to appreciate if you get it and is an accompaniment otherwise. This isn't like Ar Tonelico, in which songs are literally magic and is part of the lore, so what the lyrics are and who sings them actually matter as part of canon.

 

[Rin]

Sorry for double post, but I also struggle to think of anyone Zack wouldn’t get along with. He becomes such fast friends with Biggs, Marlene and Elmyra. Even though his scenes near the end are confusing as heck, he’s just rolling with it, going on about his dreams and how everyone should have dreams and everyone matters and all I can say is “Oh Zack I love you.”

I want to see Zack and Tifa interact as adults so baaaad

 

[starcape91]

I want to see Zack and Tifa interact as adults so baaaad

That would be fun. Also, isn’t one of the things Zack says about Tifa “Huh…weird girl.” when she reacts badly to not seeing Cloud as part of the Nibelheim group? And then later Cloud kinda says the same thing about Aerith.

 

[liuliuliu]

I want a new FF with a protagonist just like Zack…but with a happier ending

 

[Rin]

That would be fun. Also, isn’t one of the things Zack says about Tifa “Huh…weird girl.” when she reacts badly to not seeing Cloud as part of the Nibelheim group? And then later Cloud kinda says the same thing about Aerith.

Yeah, I think so!

Rebirth was fun cause you could see how aggravating Tifa found Zack (played by Cloud) as a teenager and I thought it was so funny.

 

[Rin]

oh something else I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer to that someone here might know, what does Aerith mouth to Tifa?
I am guessing it's something supportive, and not "I'll cut you bitch, he's mine" or something, which would also mean that if Aerith is actively trying to make a pass at Cloud later on that would make her....well.... not cool.

I've heard she says "Good luck".

 

[Hix]

Sorry for double post, but I also struggle to think of anyone Zack wouldn’t get along with. He becomes such fast friends with Biggs, Marlene and Elmyra. Even though his scenes near the end are confusing as heck, he’s just rolling with it, going on about his dreams and how everyone should have dreams and everyone matters and all I can say is “Oh Zack I love you.”

Zack is just a great guy, entirely wholesome and a real, legitimate hero in every sense of the word.

I've always thought he must be one of the most hardest to dislike people in the franchise, but wow lately I've been shocked by some of the rhetoric coming out of CA circles. Saying they hate him more than anyone, calling him a loser and a reject, wishing that he'll die again unhappy and alone.

In any case, he hasn't been brought back to be cucked in the end. Nor has Aerith's personal arc focused on realising she's not over him done so not to have. We already knew she wasn't, of course, one does not wear the bow of an ex, or always dress in pink solely to fulfil the promise. But now we have the recreation of the dates, the admission - to Cloud no less - she still has feelings for him, and the Sector 5 moment of clarity.

Nobody deserves a happier ending than these two, together. Gotta believe it's coming in part 3.

That said, people going on and on about them is...a thing that I think can get really obsessive sometimes. I find it's supposed to be more something to appreciate if you get it and is an accompaniment otherwise. This isn't like Ar Tonelico, in which songs are literally magic and is part of the lore, so what the lyrics are and who sings them actually matter as part of canon.

Ar Tonelico is a great shout! Croix learning hymnos to sing a love ballad at the end of 2 remains one of the most romantic moments in gaming for me.

 

[shady]

oh something else I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer to that someone here might know, what does Aerith mouth to Tifa?
I am guessing it's something supportive, and not "I'll cut you bitch, he's mine" or something, which would also mean that if Aerith is actively trying to make a pass at Cloud later on that would make her....well.... not cool.

So the only ones I know that have been established are

German - Ein Gluck!
Spanish I think
Japanese - Yokatta ne (or something like that)

Basically it all points to something like, "I'm glad you are okay" or something similar, though why they chose to have no audio for this I don't know, shipping bait?

 

[Rin]

So the only ones I know that have been established are

German - Ein Gluck!
Spanish I think
Japanese - Yokatta ne (or something like that)

Basically it all points to something like, "I'm glad you are okay" or something similar, though why they chose to have no audio for this I don't know, shipping bait?

That makes more sense than "Good luck" for sure

 

[Empyrea]

Ar Tonelico is a great shout! Croix learning hymnos to sing a love ballad at the end of 2 remains one of the most romantic moments in gaming for me.

The Heart Talks is one of my faves and I can never get over how romantic it is because it's literally a duet that, in story, is done on the spot. That alone made me a sole Croix x Mir shipper.

Edit to add: Finding another Ar Tonelico fan out in the wild is always a treat!

 

[Maidenofwar]

Alright Rin thank you, I appreciate it. It means a lot that you went looking for Nomura stuff and provided it thank you.

I'm also looking for the interview and sorry if I misunderstood where Nomura says specifically the theme is about the Greatest Showman and that Aerith is the Jenny.

Welcome back MelodicEnigma, nice to see you posting again

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Side note but I just saw that the English version of the Remake Material Ultimania Plus has been delayed again, this time to November of this year

At this rate either we’ll hit Rebirth’s one year anniversary or even Part 3 will be out before we get the Ultimania for Remake lmao

Also confirms we’ll have to make do with fan translations of the Japanese Ultimania for Rebirth for a long ass while before the English version of that Ulti ever sees light of day

 

[Eerie]

I'm also looking for the interview and sorry if I misunderstood where Nomura says specifically the theme is about the Greatest Showman and that Aerith is the Jenny.

I've seen the Nomura interview about the Greatest Showman but I've read so many interviews, I have no clue where it was sorry. He doesn't say that Aerith is Jenny, but well, she's the singer and Cloud and Tifa hold hands during her performance, the roles were set by the devs at this point.

 

[Stiggie]

So the only ones I know that have been established are

German - Ein Gluck!
Spanish I think
Japanese - Yokatta ne (or something like that)

Basically it all points to something like, "I'm glad you are okay" or something similar, though why they chose to have no audio for this I don't know, shipping bait?

If it's Yokatta ne that would make sense, and that was actually my instinct as well. But wouldn't Yokatta imply something like her being happy for Tifa? Which in the aftermath of them almost kissing and Yuffie commenting on it would imply that she's happy "for them". Which makes any sub-sequent interpretation of Aeriths relationship with Cloud as her trying to get together with Cloud as being very problematic.

Also, dear lord, just spent over an hour in a single fight against Rufus, how are you supposed to win that normally?

 

[Rin]

Alright Rin thank you, I appreciate it. It means a lot that you went looking for Nomura stuff and provided it thank you.

I'm also looking for the interview and sorry if I misunderstood where Nomura says specifically the theme is about the Greatest Showman and that Aerith is the Jenny.

Welcome back MelodicEnigma, nice to see you posting again

No problem!!

As for The Greatest Showman, I think people are referring to this?

Spoiler

 

[Hix]

The Heart Talks is one of my faves and I can never get over how romantic it is because it's literally a duet that, in story, is done on the spot. That alone made me a sole Croix x Mir shipper.

Edit to add: Finding another Ar Tonelico fan out in the wild is always a treat!

Hear, hear! Croix and Mir are the gold standard of gaming romances IMO, the build up, the ups and downs, then the final payoff. So unbelievably beautiful and I can't not cry at the song. Perfection.

So nice to see someone else who appreciates these games and characters, cause I feel like we're a rare breed lol

If it's Yokatta ne that would make sense, and that was actually my instinct as well. But wouldn't Yokatta imply something like her being happy for Tifa? Which in the aftermath of them almost kissing and Yuffie commenting on it would imply that she's happy "for them". Which makes any sub-sequent interpretation of Aeriths relationship with Cloud as her trying to get together with Cloud as being very problematic.

It's already problematic IMO. Aerith has no impetus to tell Cloud she still loves Zack if she's trying to get together with him, it's self-defeating and unnecessary when Zack's been gone half a decade (which is why we can believe it's the truth)

I'm not saying Aerith doesn't have feelings for Cloud, she clearly does, but rather than go all out to "get him" I feel she's still trying to figure things out. An understandable reaction given the two only met for the first time a few weeks earlier.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I realise my post a while back about Aerith and the ending made me sound very hateful of it, and I still am for the most part given my view it’s immensely disrespectful to Aerith and her character and just very messy BUT

the ending as it stands also has one of my favourite shots from these two games

Spoiler

I haven’t gotten to the ending so my proper emotional response to it in my playthrough may well be very different to my initial response just spoiling it for myself (willingly lol) on YouTube, but seeing this moment made me feel something.

It broke my heart seeing Tifa and Red here outwardly mourning and seeking comfort in each other, and Aerith actually displaying a sadness and regret at her not being able to reach them, and then when Red is able to sense her presence, that made me feel something because it was one of the few instances where it was emotionally resonating with me because it was anchored in other characters emotions and feelings at the moment. It was a sweet, small, tender character driven moment and I just wish there was so much more emphasis on THIS as opposed to the bait and switching, the vagueness and mystery that deprives the final hours it’s much needed moments of emotion.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Zack is just a great guy, entirely wholesome and a real, legitimate hero in every sense of the word.

I've always thought he must be one of the most hardest to dislike people in the franchise, but wow lately I've been shocked by some of the rhetoric coming out of CA circles. Saying they hate him more than anyone, calling him a loser and a reject, wishing that he'll die again unhappy and alone.

In any case, he hasn't been brought back to be cucked in the end. Nor has Aerith's personal arc focused on realising she's not over him done so not to have. We already knew she wasn't, of course, one does not wear the bow of an ex, or always dress in pink solely to fulfil the promise. But now we have the recreation of the dates, the admission - to Cloud no less - she still has feelings for him, and the Sector 5 moment of clarity.

Nobody deserves a happier ending than these two, together. Gotta believe it's coming in part 3.


Ar Tonelico is a great shout! Croix learning hymnos to sing a love ballad at the end of 2 remains one of the most romantic moments in gaming for me.

A lot of people dislike Zack because of the writing in Crisis Core and/or because of his fanbase. ¯\(ツ)/¯ Personally, I've never interacted with Zack's fanbase, though I thought the Zackbro stuff in the Rebirth Spoilers thread was hilarious and cute, lol.

OG Aerith fans (not all of them!) also dislike how much they made her character about Zack (for example, ribbon, pink, flower-selling, five years of grieving and longing) but considering how much Cloud and Tifa's characters and storylines are tied into each other, I'm not exactly sure what else they expected from the other FF7 romance? ¯\(ツ)/¯

Also, Zack gets in the way of CA, lol.

Besides, I just find it kind of disingenuous how people keep saying that "Aerith is allowed to move on" when, well, she's a fictional character for one? If her storyline is about how she hasn't moved on then what can you do about it? Aside from writing fan fic? Also, she and Zack didn't just "break up". He literally disappeared without a trace from her life. He died on his way back to her. Aerith never found out what exactly happened to him and thus never got closure and that's just... not something you get over so easily even if you eventually do "move on"? It doesn't matter that she was young because, according to her story, Zack was irreplaceable to her. She loved him (and still does).

 

[Rin]

It broke my heart seeing Tifa and Red here outwardly mourning and seeking comfort in each other, and Aerith actually displaying a sadness and regret at her not being able to reach them, and then when Red is able to sense her presence, that made me feel something because it was one of the few instances where it was emotionally resonating with me because it was anchored in other characters emotions and feelings at the moment. It was a sweet, small, tender character driven moment and I just wish there was so much more emphasis on THIS as opposed to the bait and switching, the vagueness and mystery that deprives the final hours it’s much needed moments of emotion.

This is literally the ONLY moment from the ending I like because I believe Tifa is her only authentically deep connection (aside from Nanaki). As Aerith herself states, she wants to get to know the real Cloud but the tragedy is she never gets to. Their bond and relationship is important, but it's built on a false persona that Cloud leans into because it makes him feel good (as stated in the Remake Ultimania).

For this reason, I don't consider Cloud to be Aerith's deepest or most important relationship in the game. To me, it's Tifa (and now I'll add Nanaki, too). And that's also why ACC annoys me because there's like zero AerTi content aside from like 2 lines total which pisses me off lol

 

[starcape91]

I made a post somewhere back after Remake came out. It was about how when Cloud meets Aerith after sneaking out of her house and how there is foreshadowing to the Sleeping Forest scene. I was hoping that Aerith would get similar moments in Rebirth with some of the other characters. Oh well.

 

[Eerie]

I honestly would want a remake of ACC with the new characterisations. Characters in that movie rarely talk and it really bothers me.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

This is literally the ONLY moment from the ending I like because I believe Tifa is her only authentically deep connection (aside from Nanaki). As Aerith herself states, she wants to get to know the real Cloud but the tragedy is she never gets to. Their bond and relationship is important, but it's built on a false persona that Cloud leans into because it makes him feel good (as stated in the Remake Ultimania).

For this reason, I don't consider Cloud to be Aerith's deepest or most important relationship in the game. To me, it's Tifa (and now I'll add Nanaki, too). And that's also why ACC annoys me because there's like zero AerTi content aside from like 2 lines total which pisses me off lol

Yep, for me the Costa del Sol adventures with Tifa, Aerith, and Red have been a game and series highlight for me so far honestly.

I am living for this dynamic and the connections and friendships forged amongst these three. Aerith and Nanaki especially have such a special bond that warms my heart, and Tifa is the only other person in the original crew of five you really really see the real Nanaki with, it’s apparent he cares about his friendship with her deeply too. It takes a bit more time with Cloud (as he still has more sidequests to do with him and the revelations at Cosmo Canyon) and they really play the long game developing the relationship between Barret and Nanaki across the entire runtime of Rebirth ( I can’t wait for the payoff with these two at Cosmo Canyon where Barret sees his fatherly energy with Nanaki was not misplaced at all)

But very early on you see Nanaki be more himself and comfortable around Tifa and Aerith (Traces of Two Pasts especially highlights early on the connection Nanaki forges with Tifa, as he is literally the only one to stick around to listen to Tifa’s whole story )

So seeing the ending properly reflect the incredibly deep bonds Aerith had with Tifa and Nanaki, and the friendship Tifa also has with Nanaki respectively so that it makes perfect sense why these two are seen comforting each other in the ending, was the one brilliant stroke of emotionally compelling storytelling in the ending for me.

 

[starcape91]

I honestly would want a remake of ACC with the new characterisations. Characters in that movie rarely talk and it really bothers me.

It’s one of my biggest gripes about AC. They really need to remake it and do better.