SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[starcape91]

Aerith called out to Cloud when he was raising his sword to kill Elena, and it took Tifa physically wrapping her arms around him to stop him. This is Elena, who has been a foe the entire game, and even then he's not fully snapped out of it because he just uses the excuse that there's "no time" and shoves Tifa's hands away.

Aerith is able to snap him out of it while he's chasing her for the black materia because she is his friend. Hurting Aerith would be much worse for Cloud than hurting Elena. And this is AFTER Aerith gave him the black materia and Cloud brought it to Sephiroth. Sephiroth doesn't need to control Cloud as much at this point because he already got the materia and has exercised his will over Cloud.

 

[Empyrea]

I think for a LOT of CT this is exactly the problem. Honestly I'm also so-so on this Aerith, but I try to distance myself and see her good side but... yeah, 80% of her arc if not more is about romance, whether Zack or Cloud, so it's kinda hard. A LOT of CT fans are women who know these kind of women that Aerith is and tbh it's experience that speaks in how much some can dislike her. I think there was not a lot to do since her arc was like this in the OG, and Nojima must be aware but it kind of makes her a really bad friend when we know it's not the truth. This discrepancy really hurts Aerith's character, IMHO, so I hope she'll be redeemed by p3.

This is spot on for me.

I'm still in a desperate need to see her POV as a saving grace...cause I'm really conflicted about Rebirth!Aerith for at least half of her screentime. I definitely want p3 to not exactly redeem her, but give us more insight to her mindset and feelings. I feel even just that would help a lot in terms of understanding why she did what she did.

Heh, Silverwield, yeah, she has some emotional issues I think.
Here is the thing with any group of people once it gets large enough.
Every group has outliers on the bell curve, regardless of the group these people are unhealthily extreme by definition. But usually the most extreme are also the most dedicated for obvious reasons, and they're the ones who stand out most. So naturally they're the ones who rise to prominence.
She does have good posts and information at times, as long as you take it with a grain of salt because they're obviously eager to be to accepting on one side and dismissive on the other.

I followed her for her breakdown and analysis of scenes in terms of body language. They're a nice read. But yeah, agreed with that last paragraph.

 

[Rin]

Aerith is able to snap him out of it while he's chasing her for the black materia because she is his friend. Hurting Aerith would be much worse for Cloud than hurting Elena. And this is AFTER Aerith gave him the black materia and Cloud brought it to Sephiroth. Sephiroth doesn't need to control Cloud as much at this point because he already got the materia and has exercised his will over Cloud.

I'd also argue Aerith didn't really snap him out of it. He kinda snapped himself out of it when he remembered Aerith is someone he's always wanted to protect right from the very start.

 

[Empyrea]

I'd also argue Aerith didn't really snap him out of it. He kinda snapped himself out of it when he remembered Aerith is someone he's always wanted to protect right from the very start.

I second this, mostly because it gives Cloud more agency. Like, sure, he wouldn't have snapped out if it's any old enemy of theirs, but if it was any one of his friends, I would like to think he'd find it in himself to stop asap.

 

[starcape91]

I second this, mostly because it gives Cloud more agency. Like, sure, he wouldn't have snapped out if it's any old enemy of theirs, but if it was any one of his friends, I would like to think he'd find it in himself to stop asap.

He wasn't able to do that with Tifa though, which is interesting. I think that shows that Sephiroth still needed something from Aerith, so he relinquished some control. But he knows that Tifa is really in his way, so he pushed him at Gongaga.

Edit: Oh and there was that huge amount of Mako at Gongaga which was already messing with his head.

 

[Empyrea]

He wasn't able to do that with Tifa though, which is interesting. I think that shows that Sephiroth still needed something from Aerith, so he relinquished some control. But he knows that Tifa is really in his way, so he pushed him at Gongaga.

Edit: Oh and there was that huge amount of Mako at Gongaga which was already messing with his head.

Ah, yeah, that's true. Fair enough, then, but in that case.... Cloud really can't catch a break with Seph. Guy really upped his dom game since OG.

 

[Rin]

Guy really upped his dom vibes since OG.

LMAOOO stop

 

[Stiggie]

He wasn't able to do that with Tifa though, which is interesting. I think that shows that Sephiroth still needed something from Aerith, so he relinquished some control. But he knows that Tifa is really in his way, so he pushed him at Gongaga.

Edit: Oh and there was that huge amount of Mako at Gongaga which was already messing with his head.

Here is the thing, with Aerith he knew that was Aerith, with Tifa he didn't think that was Tifa, he thought it was Jenova.

 

[starcape91]

Right now I'm planning on doing a second playthrough from scratch. I did all of the odd jobs except for the Shinra Manager Gold Saucer stuff, but I didn't do some of the other things, like all of the intel and Protorelic stuff. I'll do my obsessive completionist playthrough now where I do everything I can before moving on with the story, and then after that I'm gonna do Hard via Chapter Select. I think when I do get to story bits I'm going to make notes of every little thing I find interesting.


Then I hope to replay Remake and Intermission and go into the game for a fourth time with both my boyfriend and one of my best friends who want to see me play the game (they watched me play Remake and Intermission and are intrigued by the story)

 

[AncientGrimoire]

One thing I’ve been dwelling on is, regarding the surprise to a lot of us when they announced the Crisis Core remaster and chose to use the subtitle “Reunion” for it.

Up till that point I think nearly everyone familiar with the story was fully expecting Reunion to be the title for Part 3. So it was odd when it was instead used for Crisis Core.

Especially given that the remaster, and Crisis Core as it stands, thematically doesn’t really deal with the whole concept or idea of a reunion, and certainly not in the way it’s explored repeatedly throughout the rest of the Compilation.

So given the way certain story beats play out in Rebirth, and Zack’s last line in the game, it’s changed the context of their choice of Reunion for Crisis Core for me.

What if it’s one big long tease for the eventual “reunion” between Zack and Aerith. Teased literally at the end of Remake, where Zack and Aerith cross paths, in Intermission where we see Zack trying to reunite with Aerith at the church.

Teased in Crisis Core remastered’s subtitle.

Teased literally non stop throughout Rebirth.

Following the yellow flowers. Zack always winding up back in Aerith’s church.

I mean COME ON.

They wouldn’t have done all this right from the very beginning of the Remake project if they weren’t planning for a very big moment in Part 3, their reunion.

It’s got to be one of the longest Chekhov’s Guns I’ve seen.

There’s no way I can see them having laid down this much groundwork, set up this much foreshadowing, thrown in so much symbolism (the yellow flowers at this point feel way more an association with Aerith and Zack than they do Aerith and Cloud, I’m sorry) for them NOT to make a big deal of Aerith and Zack finally finding each other.

 

[Rin]

Right now I'm planning on doing a second playthrough from scratch. I did all of the odd jobs except for the Shinra Manager Gold Saucer stuff, but I didn't do some of the other things, like all of the intel and Protorelic stuff. I'll do my obsessive completionist playthrough now where I do everything I can before moving on with the story, and then after that I'm gonna do Hard via Chapter Select. I think when I do get to story bits I'm going to make notes of every little thing I find interesting.


Then I hope to replay Remake and Intermission and go into the game for a fourth time with both my boyfriend and one of my best friends who want to see me play the game (they watched me play Remake and Intermission and are intrigued by the story)

The protorelic for Cosmo canyon is really nice bc it's avalanche stuff. I wish it wasn't hidden behind an optional world building thing, but... whatever lol it is worth doing though.

 

[starcape91]

One thing I’ve been dwelling on is, regarding the surprise to a lot of us when they announced the Crisis Core remaster and chose to use the subtitle “Reunion” for it.

Up till that point I think nearly everyone familiar with the story was fully expecting Reunion to be the title for Part 3. So it was odd when it was instead used for Crisis Core.

Especially given that the remaster, and Crisis Core as it stands, thematically doesn’t really deal with the whole concept or idea of a reunion, and certainly not in the way it’s explored repeatedly throughout the rest of the Compilation.

So given the way certain story beats play out in Rebirth, and Zack’s last line in the game, it’s changed the context of their choice of Reunion for Crisis Core for me.

What if it’s one big long tease for the eventual “reunion” between Zack and Aerith. Teased literally at the end of Remake, where Zack and Aerith cross paths, in Intermission where we see Zack trying to reunite with Aerith at the church.

Teased in Crisis Core remastered’s subtitle.

Teased literally non stop throughout Rebirth.

Following the yellow flowers. Zack always winding up back in Aerith’s church.

I mean COME ON.

They wouldn’t have done all this right from the very beginning of the Remake project if they weren’t planning for a very big moment in Part 3, their reunion.

It’s got to be one of the longest Chekhov’s Guns I’ve seen.

There’s no way I can see them having laid down this much groundwork, set up this much foreshadowing, thrown in so much symbolism (the yellow flowers at this point feel way more an association with Aerith and Zack than they do Aerith and Cloud, I’m sorry) for them NOT to make a big deal of Aerith and Zack finally finding each other.

I agree with you. The name Reunion would work on multiple levels. You've got the big ones like: reunion of JENOVA happening at the Northern Crater, the reunion of Zack and Aerith, the reunion of Tifa and Cloud, the reunion of Cloud and his identity. It could also be applied to smaller less obvious things like Yuffie and Sonon (dude might not be dead), Barret and Marlene, and even Leslie and his fiancé who will most likely be reunited in Wutai. I only mention Leslie because his quests in Remake and Rebirth (especially Remake) foreshadow the reunion between Tifa and Cloud.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

A thing to add (sorry for double posting) but Nomura and Nojima made Kingdom Hearts fans wait years for the reunion of the Sea Salt and Wayfinder Trios in Kingdom Hearts 3.

In every game leading up to Kingdom Hearts 3, they teased the absolute hell out of these trios finally having their reunions together.

They did a lot then similar to what they’ve been doing in the Remake trilogy regarding setting up the reunion of Aerith and Zack, like I previously mentioned. I don’t know why I didn’t really see the similarities and parallels to their approaches here until now.

I’m not usually confident about theorising or speculating about these things, but if there is anything I’ll absolutely throw my hat into the ring for is that they have been deliberately making these choices for a big payoff in Part 3 concerning Aerith and Zack’s story.

 

[starcape91]

Also I could totally see Nomura figuring out that people would figure out Part 3 would be Reunion, so he calls Crisis Core remaster Reunion to fake us out, thinking "okay, now Part 3 can't be called Reunion" and then it's called Reunion anyway. Oh I love him.

 

[Empyrea]

Also I could totally see Nomura figuring out that people would figure out Part 3 would be Reunion, so he calls Crisis Core remaster Reunion to fake us out, thinking "okay, now Part 3 can't be called Reunion" and then it's called Reunion anyway. Oh I love him.

That....sounds like something Nomura would do, yeah.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

People are quick to criticise Nomura way too much, especially for things he isn’t even responsible for.

And while there are definitely things that are valid to criticise (much like I myself did in my post about the ending, but that wasn’t ALL Nomura), and much as it is with every creator or piece of media or work of art (it’s all subjective) oh my god I could not imagine video games without Nomura

How boring they’d be without all the wonderful weirdness he’s brought

He’s one of the few you could strongly argue as being an auteur for video games

I’ll always defend this man still getting to make games, I know for one thing I’ll never be bored

 

[starcape91]

For sure. I love him. I'm not a Kingdom Hearts fan, so I can't speak to those things, but dude created a lot of my other favorite things and has supposedly kept Retrilogy on the rails and talked Kitase out of killing most of the main party in the OG.

Similarly I love Nojima, and I wasn't sure how possible that would be after a certain FFX novella, and yet I absolutely love Traces of Two Pasts and Cloud's new story.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

For sure. I love him. I'm not a Kingdom Hearts fan, so I can't speak to those things, but dude created a lot of my other favorite things and has supposedly kept Retrilogy on the rails and talked Kitase out of killing most of the main party in the OG.

Similarly I love Nojima, and I wasn't sure how possible that would be after a certain FFX novella, and yet I absolutely love Traces of Two Pasts and Cloud's new story.

We do not speak of that FFX novella

 

[Eerie]

The devs have already stated that they will not use reunion since it's been used for CCR, sorry to disappoint you all!

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

So. It could be because it isn't clear enough but I don't think many people realize the memories the Whispers took from Aerith are from the future. And I think it's because it's not exactly clear in game. But basically that's why Remake Aerith seems so supportive and knowing of CT. And I also wrote on my blog Remake Aerith doesn't seem to pursue Cloud just tease him. At the time Remake came out I believed this would be how they addressed the LT through Aerith's knowledge.

And they kinda still are doing that bc again Cloud is oblivious and the one realizing things and stepping back is Aerith even here. Though she starts out NOT knowing what will happen between CT nor her fate nor anything she should know from the future. It could be to address her conflicted feelings for Cloud and Zack. Hence she seems like OG Aerith but I'm pretty sure OG Aerith is the one sleeping in Zack's world so I consider her different.

Which makes me wonder why specifically did they give her future memories in the first place? And why take them away.

It's probably for setting up some Lifestream White stuff
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As for Aerith's character writing other than me being CA so I guess of course I'm bias.
I also don't see her like I would a real person. So I don't get upset at her behavior, nor Jessies either etc. I just follow the story and try to figure things out. In real life I should have issues w her character because of situations I've been in.

Edit: For example if we talk about relatable characters I'm more personality wise like Tifa. I have shared I found Cloud's behavior in ACC relatable too. And I can relate to Aerith in terms of conflicted thoughts emotions etc in my life. I love all these characters. And I love Aerith and find her zest for life beautiful.
I can also say I can see why ppl get annoyed at A bc I am an introvert w very extrovert friends and I have been "betrayed" by friends (tho I don't think that is part of this story for real. But I can see how others see it that way based on their own experiences) in my life etc. While not feeling that way myself.
And having lost ppl I can see why ppl would want Aerith to live and be happy and get mad she doesnt get a full life etc.....while I am still thinking she should for the plot to work. Etc.

I can see many sides here. But this is not real life and I think projection of my feelings from real life on any character would be a disservice to the story honestly. A lot of these things I treat like the anime I watch. Exaggerated expressions so they can tell their story a certain way. How I feel about things or how it "looks" doesn't mean it's author intent.

I can see why people who get attached to the characters here would start to view them as real people and become upset by their actions. Like I get how certain things Aerith does would make them uncomfortable. But it would be a lie to say even HD that these characters or situations are supposed to be seen in a realistic light if that makes sense.

These scenes are there to tell a story. A story of where alien The Thing 1984 possessing a guy and talking red wolf cats, and cat robots with sentience are a thing. We need to definitely distance ourselves and our emotions a bit and suspend some disbelief before we get too deep in and miss the story.

And that's what I thing is the problem with all the bad takes I see about FF7. People are wayyy to deep in.

Edit for clarity on what I meant

 

[c.lupara]

Aerith called out to Cloud when he was raising his sword to kill Elena, and it took Tifa physically wrapping her arms around him to stop him. This is Elena, who has been a foe the entire game, and even then he's not fully snapped out of it because he just uses the excuse that there's "no time" and shoves Tifa's hands away.

Aerith is able to snap him out of it while he's chasing her for the black materia because she is his friend. Hurting Aerith would be much worse for Cloud than hurting Elena. And this is AFTER Aerith gave him the black materia and Cloud brought it to Sephiroth. Sephiroth doesn't need to control Cloud as much at this point because he already got the materia and has exercised his will over Cloud.

You gave me inspiration for another idea that popped into my mind.

I think we can all agree with the representation which, as well as the story, shows us that the love between CT is also made up of physical contact while the feeling that binds CA is something more spiritual. I think Elena's scene encapsulates this intrinsic difference between the two types of relationships quite well.


A small note on the ending: given that I don't think I saw badly, but when CT are sitting, Cloud has a flash in which he sees the scene again before Aerirh appears next to him; here is that scene you see again has a particular direction. I have a vague feeling that the culprit this time won't be Sephiroth's sword but rather Cloud. Now if in part 3 this feeling of mine were to prove true even if only in part, it would be a great move since it would trigger in a very heavy way all those feelings of guilt that we then see in ACC.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Cloud doing it would make certain Aerith haters way too happy so I hope they don't go that route. It was horrible the way some used Cloud beating Aerith in the ToTA and also how things are being used against Tifa now.

More on Aerith's character I don't mind when characters are somewhat selfish, because I find that human and relatable, to use super powers to play chess or puppet master as some have said elsewhere just so she could figure out feelings and determine in the end they weren't even real would be different though. She's supposed to be opposite of Sephiroth not use her powers to use others like he does.

 

[Sacky]

He wasn't able to do that with Tifa though, which is interesting. I think that shows that Sephiroth still needed something from Aerith, so he relinquished some control. But he knows that Tifa is really in his way, so he pushed him at Gongaga.

Edit: Oh and there was that huge amount of Mako at Gongaga which was already messing with his head.

Sephiroth does use whispers to block Tifa from trying again probably another powerful back hug xd. But I honestly just see this scene as something cute for Aerith giving Cloud a flashback from his first time meeting her seeing the whispers and to give the players nostalgia.I don't see it as any narrative thing.

 

[Sacky]

Cloud doing it would make certain Aerith haters way too happy so I hope they don't go that route. It was horrible the way some used Cloud beating Aerith in the ToTA and also how things are being used against Tifa now.

More on Aerith's character I don't mind when characters are somewhat selfish, because I find that human and relatable, to use super powers to play chess or puppet master as some have said elsewhere just so she could figure out feelings and determine in the end they weren't even real would be different though. She's supposed to be opposite of Sephiroth not use her powers to use others like he does.

I think that theory has the reason her using the powers is to stop sephiroth ultimately. But she
had a weakness moment meeting Cloud again and wanting closure. Overall though she is trying to stop sephiroth and gives him the materia to give to the past Aerith

 

[Stiggie]

One thing I’ve been dwelling on is, regarding the surprise to a lot of us when they announced the Crisis Core remaster and chose to use the subtitle “Reunion” for it.

Up till that point I think nearly everyone familiar with the story was fully expecting Reunion to be the title for Part 3. So it was odd when it was instead used for Crisis Core.

Especially given that the remaster, and Crisis Core as it stands, thematically doesn’t really deal with the whole concept or idea of a reunion, and certainly not in the way it’s explored repeatedly throughout the rest of the Compilation.

So given the way certain story beats play out in Rebirth, and Zack’s last line in the game, it’s changed the context of their choice of Reunion for Crisis Core for me.

What if it’s one big long tease for the eventual “reunion” between Zack and Aerith. Teased literally at the end of Remake, where Zack and Aerith cross paths, in Intermission where we see Zack trying to reunite with Aerith at the church.

Teased in Crisis Core remastered’s subtitle.

Teased literally non stop throughout Rebirth.

Following the yellow flowers. Zack always winding up back in Aerith’s church.

I mean COME ON.

They wouldn’t have done all this right from the very beginning of the Remake project if they weren’t planning for a very big moment in Part 3, their reunion.

It’s got to be one of the longest Chekhov’s Guns I’ve seen.

There’s no way I can see them having laid down this much groundwork, set up this much foreshadowing, thrown in so much symbolism (the yellow flowers at this point feel way more an association with Aerith and Zack than they do Aerith and Cloud, I’m sorry) for them NOT to make a big deal of Aerith and Zack finally finding each other.

Since Zack says "what says the can't be united" in the ending I assume part three will be "reunited" or something? Like reunion but different?
Anyway, finally got through the ending, thank the lord. That has to be the worst ending to a video game I have ever seen.