SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[redoak77]

Lol, I can't say I understand the hand wringing over part three after this game. Rebirth has Cloud kiss Tifa (optionally, sure) during a part of the story where in the OG there was almost nothing going on between them. AND (non-optionally), we have two party members whispering for them to kiss outside of the door in Gongaga -- so that's another thing that's been set up and still needs to be resolved in part 3, non-optionally. There's only one direction this story is going (AKA the same place the OG/Compilation ends up).

I thought the end of Rebirth made it clear that all these other "timelines"/worlds are dying/aren't going to matter in the end? Not just because Sephiroth says this (obviously he's the villain and not the most reliable narrator), but because all the "worlds" Zack end up in Ch 14 die, and the "dream date" is in yet another "world" that is dying. Other than Aerith feeling Zack's hand in the Lifestream, how much did these "worlds" impact of the plot of Rebirth outside of the ending (which we are seeing through the POV of an extremely unreliable narrator)? Not at all. The journey may look slightly different, but our destination is going to be the same.

These "worlds" exist to build out our understanding of Sephiroth's plan/Lifestream lore. They have absolutely nothing to do with SE creating multiple universes to try to make every shipper happy, lmfao, unless you think them having Cloud kiss Tifa while only holding Aerith's hand in Rebirth's Schrodinger's Gondola multiverse is them making every shipper happy.

To @JaeKony's point about the Sector 5 "dream date" contributing to Cloud's breakdown at the Northern Crater, while I do think there's a conversation to be had about whether Aerith's actions there (unintentionally) exacerbated Cloud's mental decline, I don't think they're relevant to the Northern Crater, because I don't think the Northern Crater is about Cloud questioning his self-worth in general, it's specifically about the Nibelheim Incident and Cloud's fears of not being able to impress Tifa.

The Northern Crater is a mirror image of the Lifestream sequence, and both of these scenes exist to serve Cloud and Tifa's character arcs. At the heart of this is their conflicting recollections of the Nibelheim Incident. That is what Sephiroth has been trying to exploit through all of Rebirth, trying to shake Cloud's faith in himself, and Tifa's faith in him.

At the Northern Crater, Sephiroth's "truth" is this: Cloud wasn't at Nibelheim 5 years ago. He's not even a real person, he's just a "puppet," a failed Jenova clone who merged with the memories Tifa had of the "real" Cloud she knew from childhood. Sephiroth slowly drips his poison throughout Remake/Rebirth, taunting Cloud about his inability to feel emotions, trying to drive a wedge between him and Tifa, so that by the end of Rebirth, Cloud is so far removed from the boy she knew that we can understand how she could -- even momentarily -- believe that this "Cloud" isn't the real him.

In the Lifestream, Tifa has to help put together a man who doesn't believe in his own existence. We see the two of them recount what happened when they fell off Mt. Nibel and their promise at the Water Tower. They're crucial because they are memories Cloud and Tifa share, but that alone doesn't disprove Sephiroth's assertion that this "Cloud" was formed through Tifa's memories.

What does disprove this is how Cloud felt in those moments, something that Tifa could not have known, and something that explains why his memory of what happened five years ago is so different from hers.

After he wasn't able to save her from falling off Mt. Nibel, Cloud begins to hate his own weakness, and decides that he needs to become strong, a SOLDIER like Sephiroth, so that Tifa would notice him.

On the water tower, he explicitly tells her that he's going to become a SOLDIER, and based on her reaction, he (incorrectly) assumes that Tifa will only love him if he does.

Because of these desires and misplaced fears, we understand why Cloud (who couldn't get into SOLDIER) hid himself from Tifa five years ago. That's why Tifa doesn't remember Cloud being there (because Cloud never revealed himself to her until she was bleeding out), and that's how Cloud remembers things he has no right knowing (he was under the Shinra grunt mask the whole time). They both only had half the truth, but now the contradiction of the Nibelheim Incident and Cloud's persona has been unraveled.

This moment and the Northern Crater are about Cloud and Tifa's backstories in the same way that Corel/Dyne is about Barret's backstory, Cave of the Gi/Seto is about Red XIII's backstory. The latter two were reimagined in Rebirth and those sequences still centered Barret and Red, exclusively, so I don't see why the Northern Crater/Lifestream wouldn't be the same. Same as with Barret/Red, these two moments (as well as the Kalm flashback) are about Cloud and Tifa grappling with and reconciling with events that happened to them before the game begins. Anyone/anything that happens after aren't relevant. They're symptoms, not the

It’s easy to be a pessimist and spend one’s time handwringing lol

 

[hytekz]

BTW I saw another post by C/A saying the Tifa's gondola date is very much romantic incline not related to the story. Other dates are much more meaningful story wise-- its like WTF??

Its the GONDOLA GOLD SAUCE DATE ( it was meant to be romantic story wise) - no more words

Funny when one could argue that Tifa date is one of the date that build off of the most from the main story with the biggest payoff

 

[Ryushikaze]

I’m glad you brought up Persona because I used to like the romances, but after playing through Persona 5 time after time the romances get super stale. In Persona the romances are literally fan service, which is why it makes no sense to me when I see people arguing over a canon romance. In PERSONA. Where the protagonist is literally always a self-insert blank-slate type. It makes even less sense to say there is a canon romance in Persona games than there is to say there are canon romances in Final Fantasy 7 where there are story elements that lean towards them.
Anyways, sorry for my short rant lol.

The only Persona with close to a canon romance is P4, and that's only because it's had so much supplementary media to establish Yu as a defined character and tease out a relationship with Rise and also Kanji and Naoto which, again, because of all the supplemental games and adaptations.

Spoiler: TW3 Ending - Unrelated tangent

I would add, though it's tangential, I appreciate Triss's game ending, in which Geralt remains a part time Witcher, over Yen's, if for no other reason than the thought of settling down and giving up the monster killing life leads to Geralt running away from Yen on multiple occasions on the books. My dude loves his work lol

I thought his part time witchering was a permutation based on other factors rather than romance. Or is that a difference from before Toussaint?

I saw a CA shipper recently on Twitter stating the reason Rebirth has so many minigames is because SE are planning on having none in part 3, because ya know, Cloud will be now morbidly depressed for the rest of his life following Aerith's death.

Please ignore the giant glowing "Snowboarding: Coming Soon" sign in the Gold Saucer. Or that Chocobo Racing was only fully unlocked with all leagues after Aerith died.

Now, that's romanticising depression so it's not "OK", but I guess fair enough if you want to hold those views privately - but hang on a minute, in the OG Cloud goes snowboarding not even a day later and is even shown as no longer thinking much about Aerith, expressly stating that he doesn't care what anyone but Tifa thinks?

To get around that connection with Tifa, however, CA needs to assert that ultimately it doesn't matter. The Lifestream sequence, under the Highwind, supplementary material, ACC and DOC, these are all dismissed at the stroke of a pen because they directly discredit the ship.

The simplest explanation would be to reinterpret Cloud and Aerith's relationship in light of the narrative presented, but instead many of those who ship it reinterpret the narrative based on what they believe Cloud and Aerith's relationship should be. It's ass backwards and almost certainly not a common occurrence in shipping wars, from what I've seen.

All must fall for the sake of the pairing. Narrative, common sense, media literacy, good taste, all shall fall before it!

These people also don't understand story framing. In the movie, Zack's Buster Sword is shown in the church immediately after showing Aerith's flowers blooming on Zack's resting place. The contrast between the place where Zack and Aerith spent the most time together (the church) and the place where Zack's life came to an end (outside Midgar) is symbolically displaying how they are together now for eternity - something we clearly see in Advent Children Complete.

View attachment 15032

So much nuance and beauty is lost from the story, that the devs have tried to tell us, when one continually belittles or twists said narrative solely to fit square pegs in round holes.

It's literal symbolic mirroring. The flowers from Aerith's church now grow where the sword once stood while Zack's sword has been placed into the church. There's so much being communicated here, not the least of which is the idea that Cloud himself MADE this change to at least the sword's placement because he understood Zack and Aerith's connection.

Funny when one could argue that Tifa date is one of the date that build off of the most from the main story with the biggest payoff

In the OG, it's the one with events that match up with the name of the song.
Sort of like how "Cloud Smiles" was written because Uematsu saw 'Cloud looks at Tifa and smiles' in the script.

 

[Rin]

I saw a CA shipper recently on Twitter stating the reason Rebirth has so many minigames is because SE are planning on having none in part 3, because ya know, Cloud will be now morbidly depressed for the rest of his life following Aerith's death.

This is soooo funny 'cause with a statement like that you'd think they're completely unaware of the fact that other characters exist and become party leaders in P3.

 

[Graymouse]

So, i pulled this comment off of a C/A vid.​

Insane point of view, I dont know where to begin.

The game is designed so that players can choose who Cloud goes on a date with. However, the critical parts of the story that occur regardless of player choice all point towards Cloud and Aerith's powerful connection. Everything from the theme song, which Aerith writes in the hotel lobby at the Gold Saucer, the final date scene, the death scene, and dialogue that occurs from various NPCs all point towards Cloud and Aerith being the cannon couple. There is a reason why Sephiroth murders Aerith. It isn't to stop Holy, he can already suppress it from within the Lifestream. He murders her to torment Cloud. His goal is to break him mentally, physically, and emotionally by murdering who he cherishes the most. There are several instances where the game puts Tifa in danger, like her being pushed by Cloud into the mako pool and her being swallowed by a weapon, but non of those events cause Cloud react as he does when Aerith dies. The game is hyper focused on Aerith and Cloud's relationship - the entire ending is basically Cloud watching Aerith's spiritual form walking around or Cloud speaking to her spirit. Tifa doesn't have one line at the end of the game. You would think someone that is suppose to be Cloud's partner and love interest should have a bigger part to play in the final moments of the game, but the writers don't give Tifa any of those moments. Yea, she gets a kissing scene, which is cool, but it doesn't really make any difference or play a critical part in the story. Maybe SE will write Tifa more into the story in part 3, but parts 1 and 2 have been the Cloud and Aerith show so far with Tifa playing mostly a supporting role

thoughts?

 

[Sacky]

I think the best way to describe Cloti in this game is domestic, which is why I am so impressed with it. They could have gone for a purely romantic flirty relationship, which it still does have, but instead they went for more of a partnership. The passing of the car keys,The talk about food and how Tifa would cook his moms meal for him. Them Discussing the new seventh heaven. Which is Cloud basically saying he's going to stay with her without outright saying it. It has constantly shown them comforting each other and being in sync with one another from their fighting to simple conversations. Even when teasing each other about stuff like Tifa's fear of ghosts. Overall, they both felt like companions instead of just shyly crushing on each other. They basically act like a married couple, like in Advent Children, and we aren't even past the lifestream sequence yet! I really am interested to see how their dynamic will change post-Lifestream and post-Highwind. When real Cloud returns, i think its going to shock some people, and the voice tone may be different as well.

 

[GamerSkull]

So, i pulled this comment off of a C/A vid.​

Insane point of view, I dont know where to begin.


thoughts?

Summed up with one word: Cope.

At this point, I’m convinced a lot of these people are only aware of the events of Disc 1.

Remember some of these people were being real smug when the NPTK trailer dropped and Clerith got an almost kiss. But now that it turned out to be bait and Cloti is the one that got the kiss, the narrative has shifted.

 

[Sacky]

So, i pulled this comment off of a C/A vid.​

Insane point of view, I dont know where to begin.


thoughts?

They don't understand that Tifa is Clouds anchor who keeps him together. Tifa, at the end of the game, is grieving silently, hence locking her emotions (Lockheart). Her not having a big part at the end, i disagree the game specifically focuses on Tifas grief, she has just lost her Best Friend again and is witnessing the boy she loves fall apart. The camera focuses on her a lot during the end, and it is her reaction that is the most sad to watch. The last person to get on the bronco apart from Cloud is Tifa and the game lingers on that. The reason Sephiroth is able to kill Aerith is because she had to be in a vulnerable position to pray. Also, Sephiroth can supress holy but why bother when he can stop it from the start. Which is why he tried draining or in my theory tricking Aerith into making her white materia empty. Contrary to popular belief, Sephiroth can't just teleport everywhere and kill anyone. Cloud completely shuts down into his catatonic state when he thinks hes harmed Tifa. The difference is Aerith was stabbed yet Tifa has fallen one is confirmed dead or dying, the other is missing. I don't think if Tifa did die, Cloud would ever be able to snap out of that state again.
If Cloud didn't act that way when Aerith died, the emotion wouldn't be there for the players but comparing death reactions is stupid anyway.
Since by that Logic Aeriths death has affected Barret more than Avalanches!

Lets look at Tifas Trauma from a story perspective

Tifas trauma is very much not noticed by people and players, and the reason is that she never speaks about it or shows it as clearly as other characters. The timeline for Tifa is
- Her mom dies and she tries to climb a mountain on a theory to see her that not even she believes. She ends up falling from a bridge and ending up in a coma

• Everyone of her friends ends up leaving the village, leaving her alone
• She found her dad dead and watched her village burn down

- She then gets almost killed by Sephiroth as a teenager

• wakes up with a scar. She has lost everything and is in a strange unfamiliar place.
• Then gets scammed and put into debt in the slums to a mob boss
• She then, with the help of Jessie and Avalanche, though also on her own has to learn at this young age how to survive in the slums and build a life there. (This is the same age Tifa we see at the Nibelhiem flashback let that sink in)
• Then, after successfully building a life, she finds the boy she loved, who she never thought would return alive but very unwell
• She starts to notice Cloud is very different, colder and having these strange headaches
• Cloud starts opening up to Tifa after the Jessie mission and she is overjoyed.
• On a mission Cloud Falls presumbly to his death. she has just failed to save her last part of childhood and the boy she loves.
• Later on she watches as her new home is destroyed. Her new friends are killed.Jessie her best friend is killed and she watches her die (Remind you of an event from her childhood)
• She blames herself for not preventing avalanche from going too far against shinra. While also being apart of the group that caused Shinra to destroy the sector.
• Barret mistakes her depression for anger
  • Tifa shows Cloud her scar since he doesnt think she is real a very personal and uncomfortable moment
  • Cloud almost kills her while under Sephiroths influence and she almost drowns in Mako
  • Cloud under influence of Sephiroth starts rejecting her comfort and words, and shoves her. Even with this she still tries
  to hold onto him with the whispers being forced to hold her back from getting to him.
• Skipping to the end of Rebirth after losing her home and her friends. She forms a bond with Aerith and then once again

watches as her friend is murdered and the boy she loves in denial about it. Smiling as if nothing happens. and slowly going insane which she may think is because of the new twist of Rebirth for new players not Zack but the solider degradation.
They have replaced new players mystery about Zack with New players thinking Cloud is degrading. It seems a lot of OG players don't get this and just complain that the Zack twist is too obvious.
But anyway the point is at the end of the game Tifa is Broken completely. She doesn't have the comfort of Cloud since hes going insane and in denial. She doesn't know how to help him at all and cant even focus on that AS Her best Friend has died Again! she is in a cruel twist of Fate reliving her trauma again for the 3rd time in a row. Shes effectively shocked into silence and just drfiting along with the group. Throughout the whole game shes always had something to say or been keeping the group focused. Thats why the focus is on her at the end of Rebirth; the camera is showing you that Tifa is essentially helpless and directionless at this point in the story. Shes given up.
Everytime Tifa gains happiness, something comes and rips it away and kills it (miracle: she doesn't go insane herself like Sephiroth)

She's one of the more tragic characters, but people don't see that since, like her name she locks her emotions.
some people like the one who made that comment also don't see it though, since they think this story is Just about Cloud and Aerith

 

[hytekz]

Summed up with one word: Cope.

At this point, I’m convinced a lot of these people are only aware of the events of Disc 1.

Remember some of these people were being real smug when the NPTK trailer dropped and Clerith got an almost kiss. But now that it turned out to be bait and Cloti is the one that got the kiss, the narrative has shifted.

That's why I'm kinda waiting for the Ultimania, there is no way it won't be addressed and because it is a kiss they can't just overlook it. Not that it won't change the mind of those kind of people but I really want to see the dev point of view on this scene.

 

[GamerSkull]

That's why I'm kinda waiting for the Ultimania, there is no way it won't be addressed and because it is a kiss they can't just overlook it. Not that it won't change the mind of those kind of people but I really want to see the dev point of view on this scene.

That fair but ultimately, if they can twist it now then they will definitely twist it again once the Ultimania is out.

But like you said, at that point we would have developer confirmation so it would be hard to refute.

Hopefully, the western release of the Ultimania won’t take a billion years.

 

[Graymouse]

They don't understand that Tifa is Clouds anchor who keeps him together. Tifa, at the end of the game, is grieving silently, hence locking her emotions (Lockheart). Her not having a big part at the end, i disagree the game specifically focuses on Tifas grief, she has just lost her Best Friend again and is witnessing the boy she loves fall apart. The camera focuses on her a lot during the end, and it is her reaction that is the most sad to watch. The last person to get on the bronco apart from Cloud is Tifa and the game lingers on that. The reason Sephiroth is able to kill Aerith is because she had to be in a vulnerable position to pray. Also, Sephiroth can supress holy but why bother when he can stop it from the start. Which is why he tried draining or in my theory tricking Aerith into making her white materia empty. Contrary to popular belief, Sephiroth can't just teleport everywhere and kill anyone. Cloud completely shuts down into his catatonic state when he thinks hes harmed Tifa. The difference is Aerith was stabbed yet Tifa has fallen one is confirmed dead or dying, the other is missing. I don't think if Tifa did die, Cloud would ever be able to snap out of that state again.
If Cloud didn't act that way when Aerith died, the emotion wouldn't be there for the players but comparing death reactions is stupid anyway.
Since by that Logic Aeriths death has affected Barret more than Avalanches!

Lets look at Tifas Trauma from a story perspective

Tifas trauma is very much not noticed by people and players, and the reason is that she never speaks about it or shows it as clearly as other characters. The timeline for Tifa is
- She found her dad dead and watched her village burn down
- She then gets almost killed by sephiroth as a teenager

• wakes up with a scar. She has lost everything and is in a strange unfamiliar place.
• Then gets scammed and put into debt in the slums to a mob boss
• She then, with the help of Jessie and Avalanche, though also on her own has to learn at this young age how to survive in the slums

and build a life here.

• Then after successfully building a life, she finds the boy she loved, who she never thought would return alive but very unwell
• She starts to notice Cloud is very different, colder and having these strange headaches
• Cloud starts opening up to Tifa after the Jessie mission and she is overjoyed.
• On a mission Cloud Falls presumbly to his death. she has just failed to save her last part of childhood and the boy she loves.
• Later on she watches as her new home is destroyed. Her new friends are killed. (Remind you of an event from her childhood)
• She blames herself for not preventing avalanche from going to far against shinra. While also being apart of the group that caused Shinra to destroy the sector.
• Barret mistakes her depression for anger
• Skipping to the end of Rebirth after losing her home and her friends. She forms a bond with Aerith and then once again

watches as her friend is murdered and the boy she loves in denial about it. Smiling as if nothing happens. and slowly going insane which she may think is because of the new twist of Rebirth for new players not Zack but the solider degradation.
They have replaced new players mystery about Zack with New players thinking Cloud is degrading. It seems a lot of OG players don't get this and just complain that the Zack twist is too obvious.
But anway the point is at the end of the game Tifa is Broken completely. She doesn't have the comfort of Cloud since hes going insane and in denial. She doens't know how to help him at all and cant even focus on that AS Her best Friend has died Again! she is in a cruel twist of Fate reliving her trauma again for the 3rd time in a row. Shes effectively shocked into silence and just drfiting along with the group. Throughout the whole game shes always had something to say or been keeping the group focused. Thats why the focus is on her at the end of Rebirth; the camera is showing you that Tifa is essentially helpless and directionless at this point in the story. Shes given up.
Everytime Tifa gains happiness, something comes and rips it away and kills it

She's one of the more tragic characters, but people don't see that since, like her name she locks her emotions.
some people like the one who made that comment also don't see it though, since they think this story is Just about Cloud and Aerith

Great analysis, I couldn't have said it any better!

 

[hytekz]

That fair but ultimately, if they can twist it now then they will definitely twist it again once the Ultimania is out.

But like you said, at that point we would have developer confirmation so it would be hard to refute.

Hopefully, the western release of the Ultimania won’t take a billion years.

Seeing how the release of the Remake Ultimania Plus has been pushed back again...

 

[Stiggie]

So, i pulled this comment off of a C/A vid.​

Insane point of view, I dont know where to begin.


thoughts?

"Kill the person who cloud cherishes most"

"Tell me what you cherish most, give me the pleasure of taking it away"
- sephiroth

"I pity you, you just don't get it at all, there's nothing I don't cherish"
- Cloud

Cleriths are literally Sephiroth

 

[GamerSkull]

Seeing how the release of the Remake Ultimania Plus has been pushed back again...

Yeah, wonder what the hold-up. At this rate, we’ll get the Rebirth Ultimania when Part 3 comes out.

Cleriths are literally Sephiroth

Well, they’re both pretty good at gaslighting

 

[LNK]

The YouTuber Welonz felt this way too. Her reaction was priceless. She was like “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!”

Cloud fumbled so hard.

But it makes sense he did fumble. Dude's trying to play it cool, and drifting to LA LA land

 

[Stiggie]

They don't understand that Tifa is Clouds anchor who keeps him together. Tifa, at the end of the game, is grieving silently, hence locking her emotions (Lockheart). Her not having a big part at the end, i disagree the game specifically focuses on Tifas grief, she has just lost her Best Friend again and is witnessing the boy she loves fall apart. The camera focuses on her a lot during the end, and it is her reaction that is the most sad to watch. The last person to get on the bronco apart from Cloud is Tifa and the game lingers on that. The reason Sephiroth is able to kill Aerith is because she had to be in a vulnerable position to pray. Also, Sephiroth can supress holy but why bother when he can stop it from the start. Which is why he tried draining or in my theory tricking Aerith into making her white materia empty. Contrary to popular belief, Sephiroth can't just teleport everywhere and kill anyone. Cloud completely shuts down into his catatonic state when he thinks hes harmed Tifa. The difference is Aerith was stabbed yet Tifa has fallen one is confirmed dead or dying, the other is missing. I don't think if Tifa did die, Cloud would ever be able to snap out of that state again.
If Cloud didn't act that way when Aerith died, the emotion wouldn't be there for the players but comparing death reactions is stupid anyway.
Since by that Logic Aeriths death has affected Barret more than Avalanches!

Lets look at Tifas Trauma from a story perspective

Tifas trauma is very much not noticed by people and players, and the reason is that she never speaks about it or shows it as clearly as other characters. The timeline for Tifa is
- She found her dad dead and watched her village burn down
- She then gets almost killed by sephiroth as a teenager

• wakes up with a scar. She has lost everything and is in a strange unfamiliar place.
• Then gets scammed and put into debt in the slums to a mob boss
• She then, with the help of Jessie and Avalanche, though also on her own has to learn at this young age how to survive in the slums

and build a life here.

• Then after successfully building a life, she finds the boy she loved, who she never thought would return alive but very unwell
• She starts to notice Cloud is very different, colder and having these strange headaches
• Cloud starts opening up to Tifa after the Jessie mission and she is overjoyed.
• On a mission Cloud Falls presumbly to his death. she has just failed to save her last part of childhood and the boy she loves.
• Later on she watches as her new home is destroyed. Her new friends are killed. (Remind you of an event from her childhood)
• She blames herself for not preventing avalanche from going to far against shinra. While also being apart of the group that caused Shinra to destroy the sector.
• Barret mistakes her depression for anger
• Skipping to the end of Rebirth after losing her home and her friends. She forms a bond with Aerith and then once again

watches as her friend is murdered and the boy she loves in denial about it. Smiling as if nothing happens. and slowly going insane which she may think is because of the new twist of Rebirth for new players not Zack but the solider degradation.
They have replaced new players mystery about Zack with New players thinking Cloud is degrading. It seems a lot of OG players don't get this and just complain that the Zack twist is too obvious.
But anway the point is at the end of the game Tifa is Broken completely. She doesn't have the comfort of Cloud since hes going insane and in denial. She doens't know how to help him at all and cant even focus on that AS Her best Friend has died Again! she is in a cruel twist of Fate reliving her trauma again for the 3rd time in a row. Shes effectively shocked into silence and just drfiting along with the group. Throughout the whole game shes always had something to say or been keeping the group focused. Thats why the focus is on her at the end of Rebirth; the camera is showing you that Tifa is essentially helpless and directionless at this point in the story. Shes given up.
Everytime Tifa gains happiness, something comes and rips it away and kills it

She's one of the more tragic characters, but people don't see that since, like her name she locks her emotions.
some people like the one who made that comment also don't see it though, since they think this story is Just about Cloud and Aerith

You perfectly put into words the thing that I've been struggling to put into words most. For me the facial expressions and silence of tifa at the end were the most important parts of the ending, they told an entire story without words, and you just supplied the words.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They don't understand that Tifa is Clouds anchor who keeps him together. Tifa, at the end of the game, is grieving silently, hence locking her emotions (Lockheart). Her not having a big part at the end, i disagree the game specifically focuses on Tifas grief, she has just lost her Best Friend again and is witnessing the boy she loves fall apart. The camera focuses on her a lot during the end, and it is her reaction that is the most sad to watch. The last person to get on the bronco apart from Cloud is Tifa and the game lingers on that. The reason Sephiroth is able to kill Aerith is because she had to be in a vulnerable position to pray. Also, Sephiroth can supress holy but why bother when he can stop it from the start. Which is why he tried draining or in my theory tricking Aerith into making her white materia empty. Contrary to popular belief, Sephiroth can't just teleport everywhere and kill anyone. Cloud completely shuts down into his catatonic state when he thinks hes harmed Tifa. The difference is Aerith was stabbed yet Tifa has fallen one is confirmed dead or dying, the other is missing. I don't think if Tifa did die, Cloud would ever be able to snap out of that state again.
If Cloud didn't act that way when Aerith died, the emotion wouldn't be there for the players but comparing death reactions is stupid anyway.
Since by that Logic Aeriths death has affected Barret more than Avalanches!

Lets look at Tifas Trauma from a story perspective

Tifas trauma is very much not noticed by people and players, and the reason is that she never speaks about it or shows it as clearly as other characters. The timeline for Tifa is
- She found her dad dead and watched her village burn down
- She then gets almost killed by sephiroth as a teenager

• wakes up with a scar. She has lost everything and is in a strange unfamiliar place.
• Then gets scammed and put into debt in the slums to a mob boss
• She then, with the help of Jessie and Avalanche, though also on her own has to learn at this young age how to survive in the slums

and build a life here.

• Then after successfully building a life, she finds the boy she loved, who she never thought would return alive but very unwell
• She starts to notice Cloud is very different, colder and having these strange headaches
• Cloud starts opening up to Tifa after the Jessie mission and she is overjoyed.
• On a mission Cloud Falls presumbly to his death. she has just failed to save her last part of childhood and the boy she loves.
• Later on she watches as her new home is destroyed. Her new friends are killed. (Remind you of an event from her childhood)
• She blames herself for not preventing avalanche from going to far against shinra. While also being apart of the group that caused Shinra to destroy the sector.
• Barret mistakes her depression for anger
• Skipping to the end of Rebirth after losing her home and her friends. She forms a bond with Aerith and then once again

watches as her friend is murdered and the boy she loves in denial about it. Smiling as if nothing happens. and slowly going insane which she may think is because of the new twist of Rebirth for new players not Zack but the solider degradation.
They have replaced new players mystery about Zack with New players thinking Cloud is degrading. It seems a lot of OG players don't get this and just complain that the Zack twist is too obvious.
But anway the point is at the end of the game Tifa is Broken completely. She doesn't have the comfort of Cloud since hes going insane and in denial. She doens't know how to help him at all and cant even focus on that AS Her best Friend has died Again! she is in a cruel twist of Fate reliving her trauma again for the 3rd time in a row. Shes effectively shocked into silence and just drfiting along with the group. Throughout the whole game shes always had something to say or been keeping the group focused. Thats why the focus is on her at the end of Rebirth; the camera is showing you that Tifa is essentially helpless and directionless at this point in the story. Shes given up.
Everytime Tifa gains happiness, something comes and rips it away and kills it

She's one of the more tragic characters, but people don't see that since, like her name she locks her emotions.
some people like the one who made that comment also don't see it though, since they think this story is Just about Cloud and Aerith

You didn't even list all the horrific things, even.
Don't forget, this is her second best friend dying a horrific death two weeks after the other one (Jessie) did.

"Kill the person who cloud cherishes most"

"Tell me what you cherish most, give me the pleasure of taking it away"
- sephiroth

"I pity you, you just don't get it at all, there's nothing I don't cherish"
- Cloud

Cleriths are literally Sephiroth

Worth pointing out that that's what future knowledge riftiroth tried to do by slashing Tifa in the Gongaga reactor once he realized his gaslighting attempts failed, going so far as to exert power assuming direct control to do so.

 

[c.lupara]

Right now I think I'm going crazy;

I took a look around X/reddit/4chan and what I read made me question whether I had played the same game.


To be sure:


Tifa ->

1) The whole Kalm part is the beginning of all the deepening between her and Cloud;

2) The scene at the inn is its most natural development with the clarification between the 2;

3) All of Gongaga is the backdrop to the "non-optional" climax between her and Cloud;


Aerith->

1?) The dream scene which, rather than being romantic, is a reminder of how much better the date between her and Zack was than the latter with Cloud.



To add: in Gongaga after C/T/A talking about Zack it only seemed to me that Cloud, when leaving, looked more towards Tifa? I mean the camera made me think this.


So in conclusion, am I going crazy or were these actually the key events between the 3 in this game?

 

[null]

Yeah, twitter tends to be a cesspool, thread after thread explaining and recontextualizing those things that are actually self-evident. It's a place where a kiss means less than touching hands: ever hear about "holy palmer's kiss" used outside of Shakespeare? No? Well, you will now.

You'd think that, often, the simplest route from A to B is the correct answer - anywhere else, you'd probably be right, but not on ship-war-twitter.

Is this real? Did they just take a metaphor for coming together for a kiss and use it to argue tsunagi supremacy? Was their takeaway that Romeo thinks touching palms is more romantic than kissing? Do they know YouTube is free with ads?

Is this officially the funniest LTD spray and pray? Has koi_bito been dethroned after nearly 2 decades as the champ?

 

[hytekz]

One more funny thing about the lifestream sequence in Rebirth, if we are to believe that there is a "meta" Aerith controlling the white whispers, it's that it's her that is showing Tifa those memories. So Aerith is ,herself, trying to deepen even more Cloud and Tifa relationship.

 

[Sacky]

Right now I think I'm going crazy;

I took a look around X/reddit/4chan and what I read made me question whether I had played the same game.


To be sure:


Tifa ->

1) The whole Kalm part is the beginning of all the deepening between her and Cloud;

2) The scene at the inn is its most natural development with the clarification between the 2;

3) All of Gongaga is the backdrop to the "non-optional" climax between her and Cloud;


Aerith->

1?) The dream scene which, rather than being romantic, is a reminder of how much better the date between her and Zack was than the latter with Cloud.



To add: in Gongaga after C/T/A talking about Zack it only seemed to me that Cloud, when leaving, looked more towards Tifa? I mean the camera made me think this.


So in conclusion, am I going crazy or were these actually the key events between the 3 in this game?

Nope it seems they have played different games than us i swear XD
I can't be sure, but I think "another time then". Cloud is actually meaning Tifa since he wants to have that chat they mentioned in the inn.(camera pov follows Tifa?)
Which They do, but only after the Gongaga reactor events.

 

[Ryeleigh]

It would be equivalent to Aerith being completely gone now that she's dead, and the game suddenly revealing that Aerith actually WASN'T an ancient, it was actually Tifa, and then having Tifa cast holy, stop meteor, kill Sephiroth, and save the planet. "But why are people not allowed to step back and let someone else take care of the problem, it's not like the only value a person has is being an ancient, Barret isn't an ancient and he still matters". We immediately see now how hollow that retort is. How much of a character assassination would that be of Aerith? What kind of a sad nothing character would that make her? She would be Tifas bitch if that happened, it would be disgusting. The EXACT same thing applies in reverse.

There are already Aerith fans who are mad about "the things SE keeps taking away from her": selling flowers, pink, Holy, personality, Cloud's love interest, etc. And then ironically, they call Tifa a minor character who should get back into the kitchen after helping Cloud regain his sense of self -- I mean, who should find agency and self-actualisation as something other than Cloud's Love Interest. But again, she's a character. In a story. So if her role is Cloud's Love Interest, the girl who stays by his side till the end, then? Write fan fics where it isn't so? Instead of getting mad at SE and the story?

On that note, just to leave my two cents, I interpret that line in 3 ways: meta, in-character, and a fumble. Aerith had been knocking on the 4th wall in remake at points, so she could very well be telling that to the audience. In-character, I took it as her telling herself that. And if she's telling herself that, it has to mean that she's convincing herself of it and hasn't actually done so because it would be a fumble otherwise. If she has indeed moved on, then her saying that is essentially the writers telling us her arc without showing it, and I wanna think they're better than that, what with the rest of writing has shown us.

I think Aerith's memorial speech (can't remember what it's actually called), NPTK, and her character overall tell us that she feels stuck. She wants to move on -- especially when you consider how she must feel stuck in a limbo -- but she can't. So "gotta look forward, not back" is something she probably keeps repeating to herself as a way of convincing herself to do exactly that -- and then she latches onto a guy who is basically a copy of her boyfriend, lol.

 

[Stiggie]

Right now I think I'm going crazy;

I took a look around X/reddit/4chan and what I read made me question whether I had played the same game.


To be sure:


Tifa ->

1) The whole Kalm part is the beginning of all the deepening between her and Cloud;

2) The scene at the inn is its most natural development with the clarification between the 2;

3) All of Gongaga is the backdrop to the "non-optional" climax between her and Cloud;


Aerith->

1?) The dream scene which, rather than being romantic, is a reminder of how much better the date between her and Zack was than the latter with Cloud.



To add: in Gongaga after C/T/A talking about Zack it only seemed to me that Cloud, when leaving, looked more towards Tifa? I mean the camera made me think this.


So in conclusion, am I going crazy or were these actually the key events between the 3 in this game?

4chan is arguing in favor of clerith? I haven't gone there to see what's being said but I'd expect them to be smarter than that. X and twitter I can imagine, but on 4chan, where you can say anything, people are usually not afraid to call out bullshit

 

[Someonesbunny]

Is this real? Did they just take a metaphor for coming together for a kiss and use it to argue tsunagi supremacy? Was their takeaway that Romeo thinks touching palms is more romantic than kissing? Do they know YouTube is free with ads?

Is this officially the funniest LTD spray and pray? Has koi_bito been dethroned after nearly 2 decades as the champ?

I'm pretty sure this started with the Corneo Colosseum high-five in 2020 and was briefly revived after the first kiss leaks started making its way through the forums (because perhaps we should remember that CA shared a "kiss" back in Remake). I'm not quite sure how this continued to survive, but it may be as funny as Summer and Winter monkeys.

 

[Jane Fane]

Ugh, "people are allowed to move on after their first love" has got to be one of the dumbest straw man arguments in LTD. Just a way for CAs to feel like they have the more mature take over CT, honestly. It's not that people en masse can't appreciate a "moving on" theme, it's that clearly, FFVII ain't that story.

I mean damn, millions of people were tuned in for The Mother when HIMYM was at its peak, and that's because the story had set her up for years as the ultimate Last Girl Wins trope. But then the writers bamboozled everyone by making Ted go back to Robin, one of the biggest fumbles in TV history.

FFVII, by contrast, has never set up Aerith as the Last Girls Wins. If anything, it did everything it could to set up Tifa as the First Girl Wins.