SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Stiggie]

I think that is where I get frustrated with the line.

That is where some C/A fail to accept that the line can still apply moving into the future as well.

I don't hate the line mainly because almost nobody is allowed to move on from their first loves in these games apparently, CT, ZA, Barret/Myrna, etc and everyone has to be conveniently heteronormative paired. However not a hypocrite doesn't mean characters can't look forward again even after that.

My problem with the line is that this IS a game. In real life, sure, everyone is allowed to move on. And devoid of context they are allowed to do so in a game as well.

But are Cloud and Aerith allowed to move on from Tifa and Zack though? uhhh...No.
Reason?
Because Tifa and Zack have particular extensive stories that make it so that Cloud and Aerith moving on would be extremely unsatisfying as a story.

Like it or not but in stories there is a third party to be considered in every action, namely the viewer. And the people to decide who moves on aren't Cloud and Aerith themselves, but the author. These aren't two people making decisions for their own sake, this is an author making decisions for our sake. To give us the best story. Note, not the story we want, or the one that makes us happy, but the best story. You don't have to do everything the audience wants, because the audience does not know what it wants, but the author isn't allowed to just ruin his own story. Sure he's legally allowed to do so, perhaps even morally, but he's not allowed to do it and still expect us to respect his work.

Writing in characters like Zack and Tifa in the way they've been written in, with the social contract that is implicit when you present your story as a certain type of story, and then just sidelining them and breaking their personal arcs, constitutes a violation of good storytelling, that's what it means that they're not "allowed to move on", that if they do, the story is shit.

If they want to do that, if they want Cloud and Aerith to move on, then the romance with Tifa should have never been added in, the themes surrounding their romance should never have been added in. Zack desperately trying to get back to Aerith should never have been added in. But these things have been added in, and because they are the authors have made a soft promise that these set-ups will be handled in a way that fits everything that has been presented, and fits the atmosphere of the story. There are simple ways this could have been avoided, make TIfa unlikable, make their romance explicitly toxic or unworkable, don't revolve the premise of your main characters issues about her, present Tifa from the start as a side character, make Zack an actual ladies man, there is a bunch of stuff you CAN do.

But taking the Tifa and Zack that they've presented us, and then suddenly making Tifa a heart-broken side character and Zack a loser, does not fit those things, therefore, moving on from them is not allowed.
People often try to make the "not allowed to move on" thing about a bunch of IRL stuff, but that is at best misguided and at worst an attempt at intellectually dishonesty. It has nothing to do with people not being allowed to move on, or misogyny or misandry, which I also hear a lot.

It has to do with one thing and one thing only, storytelling.

 

[GamerSkull]

My problem with the line is that this IS a game. In real life, sure, everyone is allowed to move on. And devoid of context they are allowed to do so in a game as well.

But are Cloud and Aerith allowed to move on from Tifa and Zack though? uhhh...No.
Reason?
Because Tifa and Zack have particular extensive stories that make it so that Cloud and Aerith moving on would be extremely unsatisfying as a story.

Like it or not but in stories there is a third party to be considered in every action, namely the viewer. And the people to decide who moves on aren't Cloud and Aerith themselves, but the author. These aren't two people making decisions for their own sake, this is an author making decisions for our sake. To give us the best story. Note, not the story we want, or the one that makes us happy, but the best story. You don't have to do everything the audience wants, because the audience does not know what it wants, but the author isn't allowed to just ruin his own story. Sure he's legally allowed to do so, perhaps even morally, but he's not allowed to do it and still expect us to respect his work.

Writing in characters like Zack and Tifa in the way they've been written in, with the social contract that is implicit when you present your story as a certain type of story, constitutes a violation of good storytelling, that's what it means that they're not "allowed to move on", that if they do, the story is shit. The romance with Tifa should have never been added in, the themes surrounding their romance should never have been added in. Zack desperately trying to get back to Aerith should never have been added in. But these things have been added in, and because they are the authors have made a soft promise that these set-ups will be handled in a way that fits everything that has been presented, and fits the atmosphere of the story.

And making Tifa a heart-broken side character and Zack a loser, does not fit those things, therefore, moving on from them is not allowed.
People often try to make the "not allowed to move on" thing about a bunch of IRL stuff, but that is at best misguided and at worst an attempt at intellectually dishonesty. It has nothing to do with people not being allowed to move on, or misogyny or misandry, which I also hear a lot.

It has to do with one thing and one thing only, storytelling.

Agreed, to put it more simply: Is it realistic if Cloud somehow caught a stray bullet and died during the bombing of Mako Reactor 1? Yes. Does it make for a good story? No.

Similarly, is it realistic for a guy to base his career off of being worthy of a certain girl back home but then finding someone better upon starting that new life? Yes. Is it narratively satisfying? Eh, not really. Especially if we are endeared to that original girl as a viewer.

And the same goes for Zack. As a viewer, we are meant to like him and feel bad that he tried his best to get back to Aerith and was killed mere miles from the finish line. But then we’re supposed to be okay with Aerith saying “Gotta look forward, not back” which happens mere months after she sends him her 89th love letter,

There is a certain level of expectation in a narrative that is not the same as real life.

Personally, I don’t like the line either if it’s supposed to be an actual thing Aerith believes. But if she’s saying it because she’s grieving and is trying to fight the pain, then it makes sense.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Why does it make Tifa a heart broken side character and Zack a loser though? I don't really get the Tifa can't exist without being a love interest thing because she went a whole six years without Cloud, she made new friends, became part of a family of friends.

The writers sticking the one thing I get, but I also have faith in writers being able to write something different without leaving characters in a bad place.

 

[GamerSkull]

Why does it make Tifa a heart broken side character and Zack a loser though? I don't really get the Tifa can't exist without being a love interest thing because she went a whole six years without Cloud, she made new friends, became part of a family of friends.

It’s not that she HAS to have a love interest. It’s more that it completely negates her character arc…. And essentially makes her a nothing side character with no relevance to the plot. You may as well just cut her from the game at that point.

Ironically, OG Zack was in this exact boat. But Crisis Core makes it incredibly difficult to not have him so completely tied to Aerith now.

 

[hytekz]

Why does it make Tifa a heart broken side character and Zack a loser though? I don't really get the Tifa can't exist without being a love interest thing because she went a whole six years without Cloud, she made new friends, became part of a family of friends.

And after arriving to Midgar after the Nibelheim incident, Tifa immediately thinks about the possibility of crossing path again with Cloud.
Their arc and existence are so intertwined that there is no reason for either of them to move on from the other one.

 

[GamerSkull]

And after arriving to Midgar after the Nibelheim incident, Tifa immediately thinks about the possibility of crossing path again with Cloud.
Their arc and existence are so intertwined that there is no reason for either of them to move on from the other one.

To add to that, she’s super disappointed when he’s not one of the SOLDIERS to show up to Nibelheim. The last thing she remembers before almost dying to Sephiroth’s hands is the promise that they made.

Cloud also works in the same way. His whole fake SOLDIER persona is what he thinks a woman like Tifa might like… but it attracts Aerith whereas Tifa is actually frightened of SOLDIER Cloud. Turns out she liked Cloud for who he was BEFORE he was a SOLDIER. Which ties back into Cloud’s whole arc about his inferiority complex.

 

[cgnVirtue]

Lol, I can't say I understand the hand wringing over part three after this game. Rebirth has Cloud kiss Tifa (optionally, sure) during a part of the story where in the OG there was almost nothing going on between them. AND (non-optionally), we have two party members whispering for them to kiss outside of the door in Gongaga -- so that's another thing that's been set up and still needs to be resolved in part 3, non-optionally. There's only one direction this story is going (AKA the same place the OG/Compilation ends up).

I thought the end of Rebirth made it clear that all these other "timelines"/worlds are dying/aren't going to matter in the end? Not just because Sephiroth says this (obviously he's the villain and not the most reliable narrator), but because all the "worlds" Zack end up in Ch 14 die, and the "dream date" is in yet another "world" that is dying. Other than Aerith feeling Zack's hand in the Lifestream, how much did these "worlds" impact of the plot of Rebirth outside of the ending (which we are seeing through the POV of an extremely unreliable narrator)? Not at all. The journey may look slightly different, but our destination is going to be the same.

These "worlds" exist to build out our understanding of Sephiroth's plan/Lifestream lore. They have absolutely nothing to do with SE creating multiple universes to try to make every shipper happy, lmfao, unless you think them having Cloud kiss Tifa while only holding Aerith's hand in Rebirth's Schrodinger's Gondola multiverse is them making every shipper happy.

To @JaeKony's point about the Sector 5 "dream date" contributing to Cloud's breakdown at the Northern Crater, while I do think there's a conversation to be had about whether Aerith's actions there (unintentionally) exacerbated Cloud's mental decline, I don't think they're relevant to the Northern Crater, because I don't think the Northern Crater is about Cloud questioning his self-worth in general, it's specifically about the Nibelheim Incident and Cloud's fears of not being able to impress Tifa.

The Northern Crater is a mirror image of the Lifestream sequence, and both of these scenes exist to serve Cloud and Tifa's character arcs. At the heart of this is their conflicting recollections of the Nibelheim Incident. That is what Sephiroth has been trying to exploit through all of Rebirth, trying to shake Cloud's faith in himself, and Tifa's faith in him.

At the Northern Crater, Sephiroth's "truth" is this: Cloud wasn't at Nibelheim 5 years ago. He's not even a real person, he's just a "puppet," a failed Jenova clone who merged with the memories Tifa had of the "real" Cloud she knew from childhood. Sephiroth slowly drips his poison throughout Remake/Rebirth, taunting Cloud about his inability to feel emotions, trying to drive a wedge between him and Tifa, so that by the end of Rebirth, Cloud is so far removed from the boy she knew that we can understand how she could -- even momentarily -- believe that this "Cloud" isn't the real him.

In the Lifestream, Tifa has to help put together a man who doesn't believe in his own existence. We see the two of them recount what happened when they fell off Mt. Nibel and their promise at the Water Tower. They're crucial because they are memories Cloud and Tifa share, but that alone doesn't disprove Sephiroth's assertion that this "Cloud" was formed through Tifa's memories.

What does disprove this is how Cloud felt in those moments, something that Tifa could not have known, and something that explains why his memory of what happened five years ago is so different from hers.

After he wasn't able to save her from falling off Mt. Nibel, Cloud begins to hate his own weakness, and decides that he needs to become strong, a SOLDIER like Sephiroth, so that Tifa would notice him.

On the water tower, he explicitly tells her that he's going to become a SOLDIER, and based on her reaction, he (incorrectly) assumes that Tifa will only love him if he does.

Because of these desires and misplaced fears, we understand why Cloud (who couldn't get into SOLDIER) hid himself from Tifa five years ago. That's why Tifa doesn't remember Cloud being there (because Cloud never revealed himself to her until she was bleeding out), and that's how Cloud remembers things he has no right knowing (he was under the Shinra grunt mask the whole time). They both only had half the truth, but now the contradiction of the Nibelheim Incident and Cloud's persona has been unraveled.

This moment and the Northern Crater are about Cloud and Tifa's backstories in the same way that Corel/Dyne is about Barret's backstory, Cave of the Gi/Seto is about Red XIII's backstory. The latter two were reimagined in Rebirth and those sequences still centered Barret and Red, exclusively, so I don't see why the Northern Crater/Lifestream wouldn't be the same. Same as with Barret/Red, these two moments (as well as the Kalm flashback) are about Cloud and Tifa grappling with and reconciling with events that happened to them before the game begins. Anyone/anything that happens after aren't relevant. They're symptoms, not the cause.

I don’t have anything big to add to this but holy hell the way that you put all of that makes me SO excited for the Lifestream in part 3.
I think the thing I’ve been most excited about is the reunion (no pun intended) of Tifa and the real Cloud. Especially since I’m currently reading Traces of Two Pasts and trying to find a way to read 2000 Gil for a Hero (and any other supporting material). It’s just set up to be such a powerful moment and what seems like will be the heart of the story. If it was as good as I’ve heard it was in the original FF7, I can only imagine how good it’ll be now. Ugh, the wait is already agonizing.

 

[solarity]

Why does it make Tifa a heart broken side character and Zack a loser though? I don't really get the Tifa can't exist without being a love interest thing because she went a whole six years without Cloud, she made new friends, became part of a family of friends.

The writers sticking the one thing I get, but I also have faith in writers being able to write something different without leaving characters in a bad place.

I've been lurking this thread for about a week now — and really enjoying the various discussions across the board — but this comment inspired me to actually make an account. I've seen this perspective and the opposing one thrown around and I think it's a combination of different aspects that make people lean towards one side or the other. For me, I think it'd be completely possible to create a story that ends with Tifa as the 'loser' in the love triangle while still giving her (and Cloud!) fulfilling endings that don't diminish either character. Tifa may been constructed as a 'love interest' in some senses but that's not all she is. Not even in the OG and certainly not in the remake-verse. I've got no doubt that there's fanfic out there, for example, which manages to do exactly that. And it's possible the current team could also nail it.

... But I do think it'd be an incredibly difficult task after Rebirth specifically. And I don't see them doing it in a way that I'd personally find satisfactory. At least not without dragging the third game down a little too hard with the romantic drama. The easiest way to have a C/A ending without leaving Tifa's storyline hanging would have been to reduce her interest in Cloud from the get-go or to show Tifa recognize which way the wind is blowing and start to bow out. You could still manage to meaningfully showcase the Tifa/Cloud relationship in a platonic sense and keep the rest of the story... somewhat intact, though probably not without lessening the impact of major scenes. However, they've gone in basically the exact opposite of those two directions. And because of that, I think it would be a difficult needle to thread. If that is the intention the writers were working towards, I'd have to reevaluate my current faith in them, because I don't think they've laid the groundwork for that at all.

In terms of Zack, it's a little less complex and I don't see anyway in which he ends up a loser. However, I honestly believe he's more meaningful to the story as a ghost than being thrust directly into a potential love square. I worry that bringing him back just for a) multiverse/timeline stuff or b) so Aerith can 'choose' Cloud over him would diminish the character rather than enhance it. Not because any of these characters require a specific romance to be fulfilled, but because the narrative has been built in such a way that tearing them down would require a delicate hand and it'd risk losing some of the strengths of the original story in the process.

At least, that's my two cents. Ultimately, I think just about anything can be done well in the right context. However, at this point, I don't see the next game being the right place for it and I'd be baffled if that was their intention.

 

[null]

Sorry we ended up dogpiling you @Maidenofwar lol

Why does it make Tifa a heart broken side character and Zack a loser though? I don't really get the Tifa can't exist without being a love interest thing because she went a whole six years without Cloud, she made new friends, became part of a family of friends.

The writers sticking the one thing I get, but I also have faith in writers being able to write something different without leaving characters in a bad place.

If I had to pick one defining character moment for Tifa in the OG, it was when she decided that being with Cloud was more important than trying to do something about Meteor. "I don't care about anything else, only Cloud..." With no solid evidence that he'd ever recover or even that he was "her" Cloud. And that was after their relationship had already hit rock bottom.

Remake did a great job of showing Tifa's independent side, but I still have a very hard time imagining her letting Cloud go. Maybe before he came back into her life, but not after they reconnected.

 

[liuliuliu]

It’s funny cause Aerith has a big enough role as a cetra in the story that she doesn’t have to be a love interest at all.

 

[solarity]

It’s funny cause Aerith has a big enough role as a cetra in the story that she doesn’t have to be a love interest at all.

Yep. That's really the cruz of my tldr above. Tifa's story is inextricably tied with Cloud's. This doesn't mean she has less depth than Aerith or is a weaker character. It just means they hold different roles within the narrative. Aerith's romantic feelings, one-sided or otherwise, inform her character but they aren't a defining point of her arc. The same can't be said for Tifa, assuming we're generally treading the same path as the OG.

 

[GamerSkull]

Sorry we ended up dogpiling you @Maidenofwar lol

On this note, I’m gonna go ahead and say there was no intent on my part to dog pile either. I respect that @Maidenofwar seems to prefer CA. I’m just merely stating how I feel about this topic with conviction so I hope they don’t take that the wrong way.

 

[Graymouse]

It’s funny cause Aerith has a big enough role as a cetra in the story that she doesn’t have to be a love interest at all.

I agree, Aerith really doesn't need a love interest to complete the story and for her to have a satisfying ending that makes sense.

I think she needs friends, like it was stated before Aerith didn't have any friends growing up as the last Cetra. She was robbed of that by that very nature of her storyline. Lets be honest here her story would be fine without her being in the love triangle with Could. It will end at the same logical conclusion that it currently does.

Tifa on the other hand had many friends, growing up. But one thing is true, Tifa has to have a love interest because that is how the entire storyline of FF7 starts!

It starts with one boy falling head over hills for the girl next door.

And, whether or not some C/A like it or not, it ends with a Man who is in love with his childhood friend and starts a family and a delivery service with the Women next door.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

@solarity: Hey, new kid! ...good post

 

[KindOfBlue]

To bring it back to the use of the word “canon”, I’m seeing people argue on Twitter that the Aerith “route” is more faithful to Cloud’s character arc because it supposedly has him more focused on Aerith while the Tifa “route” is more of a distraction from the so called “intended” romance of FF7.

In other words, these people genuinely think Cloud’s entire character is centered on Aerith and that Tifa’s role in Cloud’s story is optional. I don’t care about who ships who, but it’s blatantly obvious some people turned their brains off to FF7 after disc 1, and I’m really starting to feel like the two most unproductive words in this conversation are “canon” and “route”.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That and, you know, Geralt sleeps with basically everyone and confesses he loves other women in the novels too. As a character, he - and Yen too for that matter - have been shown to be pretty loose, to put it lightly.

I'm not excusing CDPR creating the Triss thing, she's different enough (and I feel has a nicer arc) that it stands on its own, but within the world of the Witcher it's not unthinkable Geralt would end up with her, or another woman, if freed from the Djinn's magic.

Technically you're not wrong, but he made the wish because he wanted Yen in the first place. He wanted that.

Final Fantasy VII is different. From the beginning Cloud is shown to have eyes only for Tifa. It's these feelings which spur him to (try to) join SOLDIER setting up the events of the game, these feelings that snap him back to some form of sanity in Midgar and these feelings which come bursting forth in the Lifestream sequence.

So too, Tifa loved Cloud then and we keep getting told and shown nothing changed or changes.

The LTD is really a spanner in the works of the story. One could argue Triss may be this too (though Geralt does sleep with her in the novels, he does this with basically every woman) but there it is set up, telegraphed, developed and made to be believable. Even those who dislike Geralt/Triss admit it doesn't necessarily feel out of place due to 2 prior games of build up before the wild hunt payoff. CA just feels like a flash in the pan - both in universe and out - compared to everything pushing CT (and to a lesser extent ZA)

Despite their superficial similarities, Geralt and Yen have basically nothing in common with C and T. They did not grow up together, they were 100 year old sex fiends the first time they met, they are terrible for each other in so many ways but that's also what they both want because they're fundamentally fucked up people.

I am aware that the Witcher books exist, which have a canon interest. I was actually refering to the games, specifically. For Fire Emblem, it was the modern games, such as 3 houses, Awakening, or Engage. I uh, forgot that series has about 20 or so odd games, and hasn't always done the whole "choose your wife" thing.

To list it out in order
1/ 3/11/12 because these are all the same narrative- Main Character has a girlfriend at the start of the game, wifes her after the second.
2/ 15 because again remake, Main Dude and Main Lady - because hey, to protags - get together.
4. This is where love first happens. Main dude's pair and a few others are set in stone but you can actually choose who else to pair up on the first generation. Depending on who you pair or if you don't, Main dude's son, Main dude Jr will have different companions join him with wildly different abilities. Main Dude Jr. also has a heavily implied canon love interest.
5 - A side story of 4 literally taking place entirely during one of the game's chapters. Main dude (Cousin of Main Dude Jr in 4) also has a canon love interest. No one else does.
6- The birth of the support system as we sort of know it. Roy and Lillina are generally thought to be canon
7- Eliwood and Ninian is canon. They're Roy's parents. Yes, it's a prequel. Hector is father to Lillina above, and Lyn is thought to be the most probable. Also has a few other confirmed and likely pairings, because yeah, most of these characters have kids in the prequel
8 - There is one pairing that is widely considered all but confirmed, but it's not with either main dude or his sister main girl (There are people who ship them which ew)
9 - Main Dude is dumb as a rock emotionally. The fandom isn't sure he has a sex drive, knows what sex is, and some people think he's gay, and even they can't decide which of two men he's more likely to pair up with.
10- Canon pairing. Main girl has a childhood best friend. They haven't tied the knot, but it gets teased.
13- No canon, other than Chrom has to marry someone because his daughter jumps back in time to save his life.
14 - No Canon pairings among playable units.
16 - No Canon pairings among playable units.
17 - No Canon pairings among playable units.
Likewise for the Warriors, Warriors Three Hopes and Sharp FE spinoffs.

To be fair, they’d probably say “gotta look forward, not back” and say that the Tifa promise stuff was all in the past.

So's Aerith though. Tifa's still the present.

I always, and i mean always hated that line! It is such a shitty line. Simply because it erases Zack's entire story. Also, people must think that Cloud is a total jackass that he would treat Tifa that shitty after the events of FF7.

Not only that, it is only then, Cloud can look back when it involves Aerith and not look forward when it involves Tifa? What sense does that make?

It makes all 4 characters very hollow and a game I would put down in 2 mins. If I am being honest. I hate cardboard cutout characters.

It's quite simple you see the actual reason is "rules for thee but not for me."

Oh it's a huge war and they basically sound exactly like us. It's the only other shipping debate I know of that's comparable to the FFVII LTD... although FFVII certainly leads in obsessed self-insert fans falling in love with the characters.

Harry Potter, Naruto, Bleach, and for a time I think Hunger Games got pretty fucking similar.

Yeah they both get around. But they're both sterile and immune to disease, so why not lol. And most of their actual relationship happens off-page. During the stories they're nearly always on a break and trying (and failing) to get over each other.

Did Geralt actually confess to someone else? I remember him being obsessed with Yennefer at every turn. He's shown more than once fantasizing about her while having sex with others (even yelling out her name while in bed with Fringilla lmao).

IIRC he does not.

Hot take time? I think Aerith had a better shot with Cloud than Book Triss ever had with Geralt. They spent an entire winter together with no other women around for hundreds of miles and Triss throwing herself at him, and he didn't lay a finger on her. Geralt of Rivia abstaining from sex. Why? All because it would piss off his ex.

This is a bit like saying a snowball will fair better in a volcano as compared to the surface of the sun. Technically true, but rather meaningless in context.

TL;DR Both guys have amnesia, both ladies are exceedingly special but not-quite-lovers, however Yennefer nearly beat Triss's ass but Tifa high fives Aerith so the parallels only go so far. (Edit: this was not a TL;DR but I'm leaving it in. YOLO.)

Imagine the Witcher but it's the FF7 cast instead of the canon one. Zack can be Jaskier. Vincent can be Vessemer. I have not thought about this nonsense beyond this point.

...

...

... is Aerith... not in the past at this point?

You're applying rational thought. That makes the argument crumble.

Why does it make Tifa a heart broken side character and Zack a loser though? I don't really get the Tifa can't exist without being a love interest thing because she went a whole six years without Cloud, she made new friends, became part of a family of friends.

The writers sticking the one thing I get, but I also have faith in writers being able to write something different without leaving characters in a bad place.

It's not so much that she doesn't have a life outside of being a love interest, but there's so much to her story that is just narratively meaningless if it's not leading towards an ending with Tifa. Same goes for Cloud, for the record. If you drop the checkov's gun of "doing this to become someone special to Tifa" at the outset of his journey from home, you are gonna fire that gun.

It’s not that she HAS to have a love interest. It’s more that it completely negates her character arc…. And essentially makes her a nothing side character with no relevance to the plot. You may as well just cut her from the game at that point.

Ironically, OG Zack was in this exact boat. But Crisis Core makes it incredibly difficult to not have him so completely tied to Aerith now.

It's not that they have no narrative purpose, but so much time has gone into narratively weaving C/T and Z/A together that unless there is a payoff then it's worse than narratively pointless it's counter purposeful.

 

[GamerSkull]

To bring it back to the use of the word “canon”, I’m seeing people argue on Twitter that the Aerith “route” is more faithful to Cloud’s character arc because it supposedly has him more focused on Aerith while the Tifa “route” is more of a distraction from the so called “intended” romance of FF7.

In other words, these people genuinely think Cloud’s entire character is centered on Aerith and that Tifa’s role in Cloud’s story is optional. I don’t care about who ships who, but it’s blatantly obvious some people turned their brains off to FF7 after disc 1, and I’m really starting to feel like the two most unproductive words in this conversation are “canon” and “route”.

Maybe they stopped playing the game after Disc 1.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Maybe they stopped playing the game after Disc 1.

Or after Midgar? The whole party is pretty focused on Aerith for a bit there, and then she stops being the focus of the narrative for awhile. Maybe they lost interest there.

Also Cloud's arc isn't about romance, it's about self identity. Likewise Tifa's is about doing something to do good in the world, rather than just seek revenge for what had been done to her and Nibelheim. They have a romance with each other, yes, but that's not their arcs.

 

[Graymouse]

Maybe they stopped playing the game after Disc 1.

Believe it or not, i know people who done just that. When Aerith dies, that was it they refused to play the game afterwards saying what is the point.

 

[GamerSkull]

So's Aerith though. Tifa's still the present.

Yes, agreed. This is the one Clerith argument that essentially debunks itself, but for some reason they still use it.

 

[Empyrea]

One of the rules of thumb of writing that I know of: You, as the author, shouldn't give the audience what they think they want but what they didn't know they want.

Now that may apply to both sides of the LTD, but I say that applies even more so to CA. CA involves breaking all that's been set up for what the audience wants. I've seen several stories lose their luster because the author caved in to the audience's demand.

Gotta say, my biases slightly aside, if Pt3 goes to make CA canon, I wanna see how they'd subvert all of Rebirth and build the CA romance up without ruining the pacing of the game and needing a Pt4. I already forgot Meteor has yet to be summoned as is xD

 

[GamerSkull]

Or after Midgar? The whole party is pretty focused on Aerith for a bit there, and then she stops being the focus of the narrative for awhile. Maybe they lost interest there.

Also Cloud's arc isn't about romance, it's about self identity. Likewise Tifa's is about doing something to do good in the world, rather than just seek revenge for what had been done to her and Nibelheim. They have a romance with each other, yes, but that's not their arcs.

That’s fair, it’s more like their romance compliments those character arcs rather than being the focus of them.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

GamerSkull beat me to it

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, agreed. This is the one Clerith argument that essentially debunks itself, but for some reason they still use it.

Oh, don't sell it short. plenty of their arguments debunk themselves!

That’s fair, it’s more like their romance compliments those character arcs rather than being the focus of them.

Oh, yes, The romance aspect has been woven very thoroughly throughout, but as supplement, not primary focus. Like, for a good example from Ch11, when Cloud has his freakout and "remembers" "Zack's" "death" in the river, Tifa rushes over and holds his hand in both of hers. And you get a first person shot of Cloud going from looking at said hand to her and the pain and wrongness subsides.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Self-debunking points are a regularly served meal round these parts. They're hard to swallow /dadjoke

But yes, that's why some people, most recently our dear BB, would post massive c/p text walls with 20 points, then do it again with 20 others when the first 20 were debated. Actually defending them just makes 'em fall apart faster by encouraging you to actually think about it. I'm suddenly glad these people haven't gone into American politics ... Or have they?