SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Gym Leader Devil]

Ok mild my own advocate moment here, I actually do see Cloud/Aerith having potential romance. Hear me out, this is obviously going nowhere in a universe where Tifa Lockhart exists, Cloti is 100% canon... but if it wasn't?

I'm in full agreement that signs of Zack in SOLDIER!Cloud are what drew Aerith to him in the first place, but I also think they are a contributing factor to her being so unsure how she feels about Cloud throughout the REs thus far. I mean, someone inclined to believe in destiny, fate, whatever you wanna call it would definitely think this was a sign. Another SOLDIER falling through the church roof into the flower beds? Spiky hair, glowing eyes, same friggin' sword? A bunch of mannerisms in common? A lot of real people in that circumstance would become believers in destiny if that happened to them.

But then, he's not Zack. Where Zack was an eager, friendly puppy, eager to please and always happy to enjoy life... Cloud isn't. He's dour, and cold. I say again if Zack is a puppy, Cloud is a stray cat. Tell one to sit, he does it even if he'd rather not just to see you happy. The other will slow blink at you, wondering what's in it for them once they grasp what you wanted.

So Cloud reminds her of Zack, but obviously isn't. And Aerith senses that the Cloud she's seeing also isn't really Cloud. She can't move on with him both because she doesn't really know him, but also because the similarity is there and it's a constant reminder.

If events somehow transpired to let real Cloud and Aerith meet, without those constant Zack reminders, I do think she could fall in love with him. He's a lovable dork, after all. And in a world where Cloud wasn't 100% Tifa's, from now until Omega flies the Lifestream off world, I do think he could fall in love with her too. She's a lovable genki-girl who can handle herself after all.

It's too bad more Clerith shippers get so hung up on proving their ship is canon. It's not. But I can see this, I see some of what draws people to be fans of the pairing. And there's a whole non-canon multiverse of fanfic, fan art, etc they could enjoy it through. It may be hard to find the good stuff, but that's true for everyone. I hope some of them at least are finding it. Cause again, in another world, with different history, I do think it could have happened. Just not in this one.

Ok back to being a borderline asshole, damn I get emotional when I read Tearjerkers on TVTropes too much...

 

[Eerie]

I mean at this point, it's completely an AU, not in the same universe If you go with the same premise than FFVII, CA can never work. The reason why Cloud never wakes up in Zack's world is because there is no Tifa to wake him up. So you'd have to have him being not mako poisoned, Zack and Tifa can't exist, etc. It's just not the same universe, you'd have to find a reason for Cloud to join the military in the first place (since his reason is Tifa), etc. At this point it could be a nice AU fanfic, but the plausability in this existing in the FFVII world is very thin, mostly because Cloud's character is built the way it is... because of Tifa.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

@Eerie: Not disagreeing, as evident in the post I hope. I'm not planning to actually flip sides in the debate, even just for the sake of argument. I couldn't even go full Devils Advocate for one post, and over the years that's been one of my specialities. This thread is just... Done, honestly. There's nothing really new to say, even the most recent Rebirth stuff is just more nails in a coffin that shoulda been buried long since. So I thought I'd stop being playfully facetious, making pervy jokes, and referencing the bad ol' days long enough to validate the feelings of the other ship.

Not their arguments, though. Can't validate that

 

[cgnVirtue]

@Eerie: Not disagreeing, as evident in the post I hope. I'm not planning to actually flip sides in the debate, even just for the sake of argument. I couldn't even go full Devils Advocate for one post, and over the years that's been one of my specialities. This thread is just... Done, honestly. There's nothing really new to say, even the most recent Rebirth stuff is just more nails in a coffin that shoulda been buried long since. So I thought I'd stop being playfully facetious, making pervy jokes, and referencing the bad ol' days long enough to validate the feelings of the other ship.

Not their arguments, though. Can't validate that

This is actually kind of sad. As validating as it must be for long time CloTi's, learning about all of this rich and tense history between CloTis and Cleriths, it's a little sad to feel like it's basically all over. And it's even sadder that they just keep it going when it's over. I mean, a big reason a lot of people (like me) are in this thread is because Clerith's are keeping the debate on life support in other spaces, as evident by all of the horrible takes being brought up. I'm not going to pretend I wish it was still going on lol (even though it is for them). But it's also like watching someone shout at a statue. I almost feel bad for them. It's kind of like that quote from The Dark Knight movies where the Joker is like "Why would I kill you? If I did, the game would be over" or something to that effect (I've never seen those movies, don't kill me). If they don't argue with us, it seems like they have nothing left. And we can't even enjoy the story with them because they're too busy antagonizing us and Tifa.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I think this might be the last post of mine here for a while.

I have no problem with others choosing to share some of the more questionable, or outright ridiculous takes, that come from Twitter and various other sources.

But one of the reasons I myself, personally chose to leave Twitter, was to avoid having to see takes like those.

Because they are simply not worth the time of day, nor the wasted effort trying to argue them.

There’s nothing to argue. If there ever really was a “debate” so to speak, they’ve lost. End of story. Let them live in an illusionary world of their own making.

But because I get the sense maybe folks are sharing those takes here in order to have everyone in this thread provide suitable and appropriate counterpoints to whatever new stupid claim is being made, that speaks to there still being concern or anxiety about where things will go in Part 3. That there might still be doubt among some of you that they might reverse gears and make Clerith suddenly endgame, as those who make these takes would have and want you to start believing.

So the last thing I’ll say on the matter, and contribute towards this discussion, is that ultimately, when it comes to brand recognition, and the cultural awareness and acceptance of certain iconic video game figures from Final Fantasy such as Cloud Strife, who is one of the few if not only Final Fantasy protagonists to have broken out into the wider pop cultural consciousness beyond video games, Square Enix is not stupid.

They are not going to, nor are the developers and writers, going to do anything that would ultimately damage the appeal and reputation of the character, the protagonist of the story.

What’s my point with this?

Well Cloud Strife in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth kisses Tifa Lockhart.

The developers could come out today and say all Gold Saucer dates are optional, non-canon bits of fluffery fan service (they likely won’t, despite what Cleriths of Twitter TM would have you believe)

But even if they did decide to be neutral and say they were non-optional or whatever, it DOESN’T matter.

In the game, Cloud still kisses Tifa. It was one of the very first things from the game that was leaked.

It’s been widely shared and is widely known that Cloud kisses Tifa.

It’s significant for all the reasons that have already been talked about.

So for Part 3 to backtrack from this, and somehow manage to make Cloud and Aerith work, and end the game with them as the canon couple and love interests of Final Fantasy VII for now and for evermore, would be to canonise Cloud Strife, arguably Final Fantasy’s most popular and recognisable protagonist and hero, as a guy who kisses a girl, but then decides to be with another at the end of the final game in the remade trilogy.

Not only undoing how the original ended, but undoing what Remake and Rebirth had already established in respect to the development of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship.

They would, as Clerith’s want them to, make Cloud a jerk. Who ditched Tifa to be with Aerith. Like, other FF’s protags have done bad, morally questionable things in their journeys. But never anything as petty nor pathetic as this.

And this ending would also make Aerith someone who would let Zack go and/or fade away into the Lifestream by himself.

Not only would they absolutely not have the trilogy end like this, they would not do this to Cloud Strife.

Shipping and loyal fans aside, casual audiences would see this happening if they did this, and Final Fantasy VII would be an absolute laughing stock. It would be a sad joke.

“Zack got cucked”, “wow they really let Cloud two-time lol” “he really did straight up steal Zack’s girl” “poor Tifa” etc etc you can just imagine the sorts of responses, and these are just my mild estimates of what sort of comments you’d get to this sort of ending.

While the Cleriths of Twitter would celebrate this as a triumphant victory that Clerith came true, they are at the end of the day a very very loud minority.

They are not indicative nor are they representative of the wider Final Fantasy VII fan base. Both casuals, general audiences, and shippers even.

Because all of those people would likely be forever turned off the story of Final Fantasy VII if they did this to Cloud, and to Aerith, the heroine of FFVII, whose story of heroism and sacrifice is abandoned so she can be with the guy who reminds her of her ex, who she barely knows the real persona of, and only interacted with for less than a month.

So if any of this has helped reassure anyone with any lingering doubts, that this simply will NOT happen, then my work here is done.

 

[Sacky]

I think this might be the last post of mine here for a while.

I have no problem with others choosing to share some of the more questionable, or outright ridiculous takes, that come from Twitter and various other sources.

But one of the reasons I myself, personally chose to leave Twitter, was to avoid having to see takes like those.

Because they are simply not worth the time of day, nor the wasted effort trying to argue them.

There’s nothing to argue. If there ever really was a “debate” so to speak, they’ve lost. End of story. Let them live in an illusionary world of their own making.

But because I get the sense maybe folks are sharing those takes here in order to have everyone in this thread provide suitable and appropriate counterpoints to whatever new stupid claim is being made, that speaks to there still being concern or anxiety about where things will go in Part 3. That there might still be doubt among some of you that they might reverse gears and make Clerith suddenly endgame, as those who make these takes would have and want you to start believing.

So the last thing I’ll say on the matter, and contribute towards this discussion, is that ultimately, when it comes to brand recognition, and the cultural awareness and acceptance of certain iconic video game figures from Final Fantasy such as Cloud Strife, who is one of the few if not only Final Fantasy protagonists to have broken out into the wider pop cultural consciousness beyond video games, Square Enix is not stupid.

They are not going to, nor are the developers and writers, going to do anything that would ultimately damage the appeal and reputation of the character, the protagonist of the story.

What’s my point with this?

Well Cloud Strife in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth kisses Tifa Lockhart.

The developers could come out today and say all Gold Saucer dates are optional, non-canon bits of fluffery fan service (they likely won’t, despite what Cleriths of Twitter TM would have you believe)

But even if they did decide to be neutral and say they were non-optional or whatever, it DOESN’T matter.

In the game, Cloud still kisses Tifa. It was one of the very first things from the game that was leaked.

It’s been widely shared and is widely known that Cloud kisses Tifa.

It’s significant for all the reasons that have already been talked about.

So for Part 3 to backtrack from this, and somehow manage to make Cloud and Aerith work, and end the game with them as the canon couple and love interests of Final Fantasy VII for now and for evermore, would be to canonise Cloud Strife, arguably Final Fantasy’s most popular and recognisable protagonist and hero, as a guy who kisses a girl, but then decides to be with another at the end of the final game in the remade trilogy.

Not only undoing how the original ended, but undoing what Remake and Rebirth had already established in respect to the development of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship.

They would, as Clerith’s want them to, make Cloud a jerk. Who ditched Tifa to be with Aerith. Like, other FF’s protags have done bad, morally questionable things in their journeys. But never anything as petty nor pathetic as this.

And this ending would also make Aerith someone who would let Zack go and/or fade away into the Lifestream by himself.

Not only would they absolutely not have the trilogy end like this, they would not do this to Cloud Strife.

Shipping and loyal fans aside, casual audiences would see this happening if they did this, and Final Fantasy VII would be an absolute laughing stock. It would be a sad joke.

“Zack got cucked”, “wow they really let Cloud two-time lol” “he really did straight up steal Zack’s girl” “poor Tifa” etc etc you can just imagine the sorts of responses, and these are just my mild estimates of what sort of comments you’d get to this sort of ending.

While the Cleriths of Twitter would celebrate this as a triumphant victory that Clerith came true, they are at the end of the day a very very loud minority.

They are not indicative nor are they representative of the wider Final Fantasy VII fan base. Both casuals, general audiences, and shippers even.

Because all of those people would likely be forever turned off the story of Final Fantasy VII if they did this to Cloud, and to Aerith, the heroine of FFVII, whose story of heroism and sacrifice is abandoned so she can be with the guy who reminds her of her ex, who she barely knows the real persona of, and only interacted with for less than a month.

So if any of this has helped reassure anyone with any lingering doubts, that this simply will NOT happen, then my work here is done.

Unfortunately for the people on Twitter FF7 isn't about to turn into a timeline jumping game to save one person who Cloud will then Kiss XD. It's like they missed the entire clues in the game to what timelines actually are. I fear the gang has a lot more to deal with in the actual living world than what some people think part 3 is going to be. Also one thing people keep forgetting the One character who keeps saying Let's Defy Destiny... is the Villain of the story Sephiroth!. Short note Cloud Kissed Tifa this means a whole lot to a bunch of people. The reactions to the kiss from the actual fans of the story is pure happiness and Cloti was Featured more in the game in basically every chapter from romance to angst to comfort. Cloud and Aerith (non optional XD) main story didn't really have anything significant with each other until a small bit in Gongaga. Cosmo canyon speech?The song and Temple to Ending.Not to mention every book for Remake having a part that focuses on Tifa and Clouds relationship written by Nojima.Really right now Zack is only brought back to give Aerith a happier ending, to tie into advent children. And fanservice for both more Aerith and Zack. The gongaga lifestream sequence showed exactly where the story is heading there is no reason to worry. The people making these kinds of takes in twitter or wherever only have themselves to blame for just denying the plot and they are gonna wait a long time for disappointment.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

You want to know what’s funny with that guy? He pretends to be neutral lol. And also his bff are extreme CAs. I’ve blocked him a long time ago when I stumbled in one convo and he was being pretty stupid. Like if all you got are bad takes you’re 100% getting a block from me because I don’t have that kind of time (my Twitter being private I just don’t care lol).

- He's a two face b* same level as those hardcore who lies to make it work ~

You know what I'm neutral but Cloti is toxic and C/A is chill and I love Tifa but she's only famous because of big B but Aerith is much better option but I'M NEUTRAL*

- yeaah whatever I blocked him long ago too~

 

[Maidenofwar]

I do have a problem with it and I'll say so. I have asked several times now for people to adhere to rules for this section of the forum and have no qualms speaking up when it gets out of hand again. If all people want to do is talk shit on others and slander there is a Clubs section, I won't bother folks there (though Faith was always pretty welcoming of me)

Edit: Well it looks like new people and people in general already found the Clubs section.

We're all adults here and we should be able to resolve this like adults, I don't want to report people is the thing. I do everyone the respect of not posting people's social media accounts (well I don't even look for them) or talking about them/the people behind the accounts. In reasoning for this I could look for stuff and post a whole bunch of stuff and start talking about people but then it could turn out one of those people were here or more than one and they might feel bad, and I would feel bad for that too. I know there's a lot of bad blood, which is why I try not to add to it as much as possible. Maybe it's silly idk

The thing is I could block or ignore people, but I don't want to block/ignore anyone or everyone because then I wouldn't be able to see anything at all.

 

[Empyrea]

- He's a two face b* same level as those hardcore who lies to make it work ~

You know what I'm neutral but Cloti is toxic and C/A is chill and I love Tifa but she's only famous because of big B but Aerith is much better option but I'M NEUTRAL*

- yeaah whatever I blocked him long ago too~

For real. These people also don't know what words mean, apparently.

 

[Hellenic]

I hate the idea that I think I know which one you're talking about... If it's the one involving a ribbon, then let it be known that was when I dismissed CA as a romantic ship (as decribed by these people, just to clarify) in its entirety.

That is indeed the one. For obvious reasons i won't describe it further here though.

 

[Hellenic]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771060344515186870

There is really one line that bothers me here - difference of translations between the French and the English: in French it matches ToTP when she recalls not believing what everyone told her about her Mt Nibel fall, but in English it's a complete blunder, as Tifa wanted to ask Cloud but never had the chance to.

Besides the time span, both dialogues basically convey the same thing anyway. Not sure why we would even need the time span to begin with? I'm gonna be honest and say i don't think the EN script is as bad as some CTs do make it out to be, like sure there are some weird line uses here and there, but they do convey what needs to be conveyed for the most part.

 

[Deleted member 26496]

It seems that most people think that the player can choose who cloud loves. I have seen a lot of people and big streamers say this. Im a cloti since I played remake even though I didn't even know who Tifa was. In my opinion the game made it very clear that she is the canon love interest. However, I habe never seen a canon couple not Show any affection whatsoever during an entire movie, not being talked about openly as a couple and always just referred to as "childhood friends", only having a kiss in an optional scene ( im sorry I know its annoying but its till kinda weird to me) or ever just unambigously stated as the canon couple. So personaly Im not so confident in calling them the canon couple. Especially since a lot of people don't want them to be or don't think they are.

 

[Hellenic]

though this may actually just be a function of being a game solely in the perspective of Cloud

Pretty much this in general. They hide a lot of details behind the supposed discussions that Tifa and Aerith had that we just don't get to see or hear much about.

 

[Graymouse]

Isn't it strange that such a petty thing as the LTD can bring out the best and the worst of people, and we are all blind to how much money this LTD makes SE. For I am sure this is one of the reasons why the Re-trilogy exist in the first place.

I could probably guess that SE will never ever solve the equation because it brings them too much money.

 

[Deleted member 26496]

In my opinion, the way Nojima treated Tifas character in AC was pretty disrespectful. She was just hurt and abandond by Cloud and thats after all she in the og game to save him. So I wouldn't put it past him to not have Cloud and Tifa get together by the end of this trilogy even though its very sad for Tifa. And also the LTD is so big I feel like they are too scared to end it and alienate a big chunk of their customers.

 

[Stiggie]

It seems that most people think that the player can choose who cloud loves. I have seen a lot of people and big streamers say this. Im a cloti since I played remake even though I didn't even know who Tifa was. In my opinion the game made it very clear that she is the canon love interest. However, I habe never seen a canon couple not Show any affection whatsoever during an entire movie, not being talked about openly as a couple and always just referred to as "childhood friends", only having a kiss in an optional scene ( im sorry I know its annoying but its till kinda weird to me) or ever just unambigously stated as the canon couple. So personaly Im not so confident in calling them the canon couple. Especially since a lot of people don't want them to be or don't think they are.

It's simple, it's the difference between something being canon, and something being confirmed as canon. Tifa and Cloud are canon in the sense that, when the developers are writing the story, that is the story they are writing. When deciding on Clouds actions and motivations they're following the "Cloud love Tifa" versions of the characters. If you look at the big picture that is always the direction the story flows towards.

But when you write a story there is always wriggle room for interpretation in everything, some developers go out of their way to say "no, that's wrong, THIS is correct", but the japanese aren't really like that. If you have a different interpretation than the developers, that's fine. They wouldn't go out of their way to tell you Aerith and Cloud aren't a thing, but they wouldn't go out of their way to tell you Cloud and Sephiroth aren't a thing either. But Cloud x Sephiroth is still a fanon, it's not canon, or a reasonable interpretation.

The HA dates are the most obvious example of this. Tifa and Cloud are romantic, that's the story being told, so SE makes them kiss. In the story being told Aerith and Cloud are NOT romantic, so they don't kiss. But SE still knows that a lot of people wish for Cloud and Aerith to be romantic, so they give enough wiggle room that it doesn't interfere with the canonical story, but still allows people to daydream. He holds her hand, in the story as written that's him indulging her asking him to indulge her, but it's also some breadcrumbs to tease "heej, who knows, maybe it's more!" for the people who like to imagine such things.

 

[Hellenic]

lol, yeah the number of goodbyes really was a case of diminishing returns. You could argue there's:
1) Church
2) Sleeping Forest
3) Altar (Pre-Boss fights)
4) Post-Sephiroth fight, disappearing hand-hold thing
5) Altar (Post-Boss fights, Cloud telling her to wake up)
6) CGI ending

I feel like there's gotta be a 7th that I'm missing, because they would be so annoying like that, but also, why? lmao. Sometimes less is more people!! (I say as they add 500 new mini-games to part 3 out of spite. Beat Gears & Gambits in Hard Mode to Unlock Cloud's Memory #1 in the Lifestream!)

The sector 5 date is just such a weird place to leave Aerith's character in this game. Ship-wise, it really feels like beating a dead horse. Reviving a zombie-ship that had almost no development during the game just to brutally murder it in the span of 10 minutes, is like...I guess it gives some clarity to where everyone stands before she dies. (But again, does this really count when Cloud is so out of his mind and if this isn't even our Aerith???)

I just honestly couldn't feel anything for Aerith at the ending exactly because they just kept going and going, repeating her wake ups and all that. The saddest moment for me in the last chapter was Tifas reaction to her death.

Temple and other places before hit me way more in the feels than what they did here.

 

[Sacky]

It seems that most people think that the player can choose who cloud loves. I have seen a lot of people and big streamers say this. Im a cloti since I played remake even though I didn't even know who Tifa was. In my opinion the game made it very clear that she is the canon love interest. However, I habe never seen a canon couple not Show any affection whatsoever during an entire movie, not being talked about openly as a couple and always just referred to as "childhood friends", only having a kiss in an optional scene ( im sorry I know its annoying but its till kinda weird to me) or ever just unambigously stated as the canon couple. So personaly Im not so confident in calling them the canon couple. Especially since a lot of people don't want them to be or don't think they are.

In confused by what you mean? Entire movie is that relating to Rebirth or in general movies?. But the canon couple thing doesn't make sense cause none are in a romantic relationship since there's the whole sephiroth situation and identity issues. But the whole Gongaga section shows how they feel about each other and what endgame is gonna be. While Aerith and Zack are on a collision course to a reunion

 

[Eerie]

It seems that most people think that the player can choose who cloud loves. I have seen a lot of people and big streamers say this. Im a cloti since I played remake even though I didn't even know who Tifa was. In my opinion the game made it very clear that she is the canon love interest. However, I habe never seen a canon couple not Show any affection whatsoever during an entire movie, not being talked about openly as a couple and always just referred to as "childhood friends", only having a kiss in an optional scene ( im sorry I know its annoying but its till kinda weird to me) or ever just unambigously stated as the canon couple. So personaly Im not so confident in calling them the canon couple. Especially since a lot of people don't want them to be or don't think they are.

That's because you think of those scenes as "optional". I really think people should let go of this word and use "bonus" instead. We are supposed to watch them all, the GS dates? If you max out everyone, you'll have a RANDOM one. That's how it is, it really doesn't matter because all the scenes are supposed to show you how Cloud canonically interacts with his comrades, what type of relationship they have.

You are supposed to do all the sidequests, learn about all the members of the group, see how Cloud interacts with them, his opinions. You're supposed to see all of that to understand the story and what it tells you about its characters. We're also supposed to chose other answers and see what happens when we do, the difference in storytelling in some narrative points.

You can also do a main quest only type of playthrough to understand what the game is saying - those are actually interesting! It's the story without the fluff, so to speak. The devs want you to replay and to think about this game, that is a certainty - what you see, are you sure about the reason WHY you see it?

As for your other point, comparing REBIRTH to a movie: we are only at the second game, and shit is going down. But personally I have no fear we'll be shown an inescapable kiss between Cloud and Tifa, if only under the HighWind.

 

[Sacky]

That's because you think of those scenes as "optional". I really think people should let go of this word and use "bonus" instead. We are supposed to watch them all, the GS dates? If you max out everyone, you'll have a RANDOM one. That's how it is, it really doesn't matter because all the scenes are supposed to show you how Cloud canonically interacts with his comrades, what type of relationship they have.

You are supposed to do all the sidequests, learn about all the members of the group, see how Cloud interacts with them, his opinions. You're supposed to see all of that to understand the story and what it tells you about its characters. We're also supposed to chose other answers and see what happens when we do, the difference in storytelling in some narrative points.

You can also do a main quest only type of playthrough to understand what the game is saying - those are actually interesting! It's the story without the fluff, so to speak. The devs want you to replay and to think about this game, that is a certainty - what you see, are you sure about the reason WHY you see it?

As for your other point, comparing REBIRTH to a movie: we are only at the second game, and shit is going down. But personally I have no fear we'll be shown an inescapable kiss between Cloud and Tifa, if only under the HighWind.

If you do a only main story and cut out all scenes that have a variation or difference then you would see how little some characters actually interact with one another until the ending. While also still having Gongaga sequence the romantic part that has no difference at all regardless of affection or bonds

 

[KindOfBlue]

Like I’ve said before, I don’t think it’s a matter of Cloud and Aerith not being romantic at all because at the very least, they are presented with romantic undertones and they’re expected to be viewed in that light. But that romance has a lot of baggage that never quite gets resolved in a way that culminates in what Cloud and Tifa get.

What I mean is, I don’t think trying to prove Cloud and Aerith is platonic is the answer here. I would say proving their romance is futile compared to Cloud and Tifa is closer to reflecting what the story demonstrates about both relationships.

It's kind of like that quote from The Dark Knight movies where the Joker is like "Why would I kill you? If I did, the game would be over" or something to that effect (I've never seen those movies, don't kill me).

Or perhaps more appropriately:

 

[Empyrea]

I'd say it makes for a stronger argument to say the HA GS dates are optional if you can skip having the date (with anyone, mind) altogether. As it is, it's much simpler to assume that because Cloud essentially leads this group, he should at least have a decent enough relationship with these people that they'd ask to hang out with him.

Still a bit of a stretch, though, probably.

 

[Empyrea]

This is actually kind of sad. As validating as it must be for long time CloTi's, learning about all of this rich and tense history between CloTis and Cleriths, it's a little sad to feel like it's basically all over. And it's even sadder that they just keep it going when it's over. I mean, a big reason a lot of people (like me) are in this thread is because Clerith's are keeping the debate on life support in other spaces, as evident by all of the horrible takes being brought up. I'm not going to pretend I wish it was still going on lol (even though it is for them). But it's also like watching someone shout at a statue. I almost feel bad for them. It's kind of like that quote from The Dark Knight movies where the Joker is like "Why would I kill you? If I did, the game would be over" or something to that effect (I've never seen those movies, don't kill me). If they don't argue with us, it seems like they have nothing left. And we can't even enjoy the story with them because they're too busy antagonizing us and Tifa.

https://preview.redd.it/i1jwnflgm7w21.jpg?auto=webp&s=818841c3f023d0430f61141f4967e541d2a2aa8a

 

[parkdon]

LTD is over
Tifa is the only woman Cloud has ever kissed

 

[Eerie]

If you do a only main story and cut out all scenes that have a variation or difference then you would see how little some characters actually interact with one another until the ending. While also still having Gongaga sequence the romantic part that has no difference at all regardless of affection or bonds

The romance part for CT begins in Kalm and it's story-driven, then continues in Under Junon where it's still story-driven (yes because miscommunication + angst + reconciliation is textbook romance), then you have Cloud reacting to Tifa in her swimsuit (it's her theme playing), then Gongaga, and Nibelheim shows them supporting each other. Like, it's everywhere in game and that's why many gaming articles talked about it. There's a reason why you get out of this game feeling that CT's romance was developped, it's because it was developped in the main quest!