SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[shady]

That's still pretty far out there, since there's no visual clues that that is what's happening. I do think she's dead though

Yeah I mean I don't necessarily agree with the theory, I'm just not sure why it garnered such harassment and backlash when it's a completely innocent thought

 

[Yoru]

Aerith’s goodbye in the final cutscene is framed like a genuine goodbye. There would be no reason for Jenova to do that or to “stay behind” like she does.

It’s a dumb theory. That being said, nobody should be harassing Max over it.

Like I said, the Tiny Bronco is far away, Cloud is not watching anymore. The Goodbye Aerith is the real deal. She's gonna look after us from the LS.

 

[liuliuliu]

I actually think the Aerith by the lake siting with Cloud is Jenova. Cloud’s face in that frame is creepy, the smile is creepy af. The green light tint doesn’t help at all.
The one at the final cgi should be our Aerith, dead, in lifestream.


Anyway she died for sure. If anyone is not happy with that, they should complain to SE 27 years ago

 

[LNK]

Yeah I mean I don't necessarily agree with the theory, I'm just not sure why it garnered such harassment and backlash when it's a completely innocent thought

I guess I'm not surprised. He's got a lot of fans. If it was a figure that didn't, I doubt there'd be this kind of backlash.

 

[GamerSkull]

Anyway she died for sure. If anyone is not happy with that, they should complain to SE 27 years ago

I think a lot of fans are holding on to hope that she can still come back in Part 3.

I don’t think she will though, except for Interludes like Zack got this game.. I definitely think her content will be in the Lifestream, dead.

But is Max getting hard for blatantly saying she died though? I thought it was just because he thought she was Jenova at the end.

 

[liuliuliu]

I think a lot of fans are holding on to hope that she can still come back in Part 3.

I don’t think she will though, except for Interludes like Zack got this chapter. I definitely think her content will be in the Lifestream, dead.

But is Max getting hard for blatantly saying she died though? I thought it was just because he thought she was Jenova at the end.

I don’t know, I don’t watch live streams lol. Can’t sit still watch other people talking anymore

 

[Maidenofwar]

Nobody should get harassed. Definitely agree with that, which is why I made it clearer it's the theory itself some could see as problematic.

It's good publicity for the game maybe as more people might buy the game to see what all the fuss is about generated by and around one of the biggest influencers. My only concern is the devs seeing it and retroactively adding that in since apparently they've added some stuff they liked before.

Some people would have a field day with Jenova Aerith, see she was evil all along, we were right, etc, wouldn't matter if it wasn't Aerith some haters would be really loud about I think.

@Rin just scenes with Cloud, I removed scenes with multiple other characters or where there was larger Zack factor , it was a response yeah.

 

[GamerSkull]

Nobody should get harassed. Definitely agree with that, which is why I made it clearer it's the theory itself some could see as problematic.

It's good publicity for the game maybe as more people might buy the game to see what all the fuss is about generated by and around one of the biggest influencers. My only concern is the devs seeing it and retroactively adding that in since apparently they've added some stuff they liked before.

Some people would have a field day with Jenova Aerith, see she was evil all along, we were right, etc, wouldn't matter if it wasn't Aerith some haters would be really loud about I think.

@Rin just scenes with Cloud, I removed scenes with multiple other characters or where there was larger Zack factor , it was a response yeah.

I expect, like with anything, the devs will certainly take into account both positive and negative feedback.

I doubt they will run with Max’s theory though. I think some people are overestimating streamer influence, maybe it’s just possible they predicted some stuff right or the devs might have like one or two ideas, but they aren’t gonna drastically change anything based on streamer reaction.

Plus, I believe most of Part 3’s script is done anyway. Now, they’ll add to it… but they won’t throw out huge portions of it because “oh that streamer said something cool.”

As for some people being happy if she was always evil, there are always gonna be extremists. Square isn’t going to completely alter Aerith’s character because of a streamer. I feel like people are worrying over nothing.

Also, this is why I don’t watch streamers. LOL

 

[LNK]

I expect, like with anything, the devs will certainly take into account both positive and negative feedback.

I think this should only happen in regards to technical things about the game. When it comes to the actual story, definitely not

 

[GamerSkull]

I think this should only happen in regards to technical things about the game. When it comes to the actual story, definitely not

I don’t think they’ll change much tbh. At least insofar as what they see from fans. A lot of fans, and streamers I’m sure, probably wanted Aerith to live this time around. Still didn’t do it.

I just think Max made a shitty theory and that’s it. Don’t think it will mean anything and I don’t think he should get hate for it. And that’s about it.

Feel like we’re getting off-topic in this thread though. This seems more like ending discussion.

So to bring it back, I wonder how exactly they will do Zerith next game. Will they be in a party together?

 

[LNK]

So to bring it back, I wonder how exactly they will do Zerith next game. Will they be in a party together?

I definitely think they will be. I've always stuck by them two, plus the dead avalanche members and possibly Angeal being the party we see helping in the final battle. Not that we'll be able to control them (it's possible), but that cinematically they'll be there.

I do think her and him will have their resolution prior to the final battle though

 

[liuliuliu]

Well they need to have a talk about what Marlene said to Zack

 

[Yoru]

So to bring it back, I wonder how exactly they will do Zerith next game. Will they be in a party together?

I don't think so. For the final battle maybe. During the game Zack might be the white knight of Aerith. She'll send him where she needs him. Kinda what she did already in Rebirth. Some say he could replace Cloud in the party during his KO time. I'm not too happy with character from other "worlds" coming into the "main" one. I prefer an outside assistance. But yeah, Zack will be the one in action during her prayers and all in the LS.

 

[Sacky]

I am confused why people hate Jenova Aerith so much I don't believe it at the end of the game. But the theory is it's Sephiroth using Jenova powers to trick Cloud to heading North when he's not ready. I get the whole it ruins the goodbye but we already had so many goodbyes in this game alone. it's cruel to Cloud but this whole game is torture to the characters the Villains will do henious and evil stuff since they are the villains. Jenova in this game was said to take the form of dead loved ones. To really feel the loss of Aerith she shouldn't really have the chance to have said bye to the party and she doesn't really even in the last cutscene since she can't. I don't believe in this theory though the green one sitting beside him maybe. But I don't see how it ruins any character for the villains to take there likeness born from a characters love for them it's dark and twisted but the ending of part 2 was always going to be?

 

[CldS7]

why do we need a goodbye scene to mean anything when one of the best parts of the OG was her death and how unforgiving and sudden it was. Cloud suggests that she 'sacrificed herself' for them but Tifa literally says she wants to live. By dragging it like this they really ruined what the whole scene meant in the first place tbh

 

[Maidenofwar]

To be honest we don't even know Aerith will be in the next game even to extent she was in OG discs 2 and 3. So of course some Aerith fans don't want her big scenes to be taken from her. I would enjoy the ending a lot less if it were Jenova, homages to Aerith and Nanaki's bond, Aerith looking over Tifa and Nanaki, Aerith joining in the excitement over the Bronco being fixed, etc.

They already took Forgotten Capital scenes away so of course Aerith fans don't want the new stuff also taken away.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I am confused why people hate Jenova Aerith so much I don't believe it at the end of the game. But the theory is it's Sephiroth using Jenova powers to trick Cloud to heading North when he's not ready.

- nope its not that they hate 'Jenova Aerith theory' the idea that they hate is the conclusion that "everything Cloud sees is technically false ( which is the point duh) and thus only one ending --> Aerith's dead and there's no 'other timeline here that can save her' its all in Cloud's head ( again which is the same point--> devs has made it clear even before game release the one whose going to die in Lifestream wont comeback to life

Just like Zack I also agree that he's still dead --> but to be honest the logic on how he still 'alive' and his world is still too puzzled for me soo I have no idea. not good with theories either so I need to wait for part 3

They're all looking forward for that marketting "Defiance of fate" and thought she's going to make it this time so their all holding on to the idea that she's gonna live. Sephiroth is the one whose trying to defy fate and he's originally supposed to be dead ( Cloud killed him back in Nibelheim) hence why all of this conflict in LS.

They already took Forgotten Capital scenes away so of course Aerith fans don't want the new stuff also taken away.

My view for this one its not that its removed but we're looking at it on Cloud's POV and with soo much denial and twisted on his mind so probably defer it a bit. ( and also marketing purposes --> they dont want to lose those Aerith fans while there's still 3rd game ) Well see what exactly happened on Aerith's death in part 3 and plus 'the lake scene' is in ACC maybe will see it in part 3.

To be honest we don't even know Aerith will be in the next game even to extent she was in OG discs 2 and 3.

I haven't fully completed the OTWTAS White and Black but I think the story has been combined to connect with that reference and with so much needs to be fix in LS I'm kinda expecting her to be in at least a chapter with Zack of course she's gonna be in part3

 

[Rin]

@Rin just scenes with Cloud, I removed scenes with multiple other characters or where there was larger Zack factor , it was a response yeah.

Gotcha. Out of curiosity, what scene did Aerith have with Cloud in chapter 7? I would think that wouldn't count since Nanaki was there as well.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Just to kind of add to the Jenova!Aerith conversation. The extreme CA shippers see Jenova!Aerith as an attempt to delegitimise Aerith and thus Cloud/Aerith as a ship. I haven't seen Max's comment on it but I would imagine that it's in reference to the scene that everyone has called creepy and not, like, shipper goggles or Aerith overall? I could be wrong, though, since as I said, I haven't watched his videos.

But to add more generally: not everyone saying something that another person doesn't like, either about a character or a ship, is a shipper for the rival ship. Or that there's some kind of great rival ship conspiracy going on. Like, c'mon.

 

[Eerie]

Max kept saying Cloud has two girlfriends now, he clearly isn't a shipper, just a story enjoyer - and yes he will also claim that CT is canon, to him all of this is just fun. I'm glad this little hashtag cheered him up because he was really let down yesterday (or before yesterday depending on the timezone). He also loves Aerith so there's no way he's making comments about how Aerith is Jenova now etc. Just that this Aerith at the end is not Aerith. And I will say that his theory holds some merits, even though personally I don't think it's the case. The Ultimania will probably mention it then. When they're at the lake though, he's clearly under the illusion that Aerith didn't die, that much is Jenova's work to fit Cloud's own delusion that he didn't fail her. That "Wake up Aerith" was definitely SUPER CREEPY, the whole scene is not meant to tell you that Aerith didn't die, but rather that there is something very wrong with Cloud.

Someone pointed out to me that there may be 2 Aeriths in the goodbye scene, which, if true, may be a mix of the true Aerith caring about her friends and Cloud's own delusion and illusional world, once again. I have to rewatch this scene, but I do think it's possible that there might be some fckery by SE there. It would certainly explain some details pointed out by Max. Let's not forget that in this illusionary world, Aerith would act the same way Cloud thinks she would, not the way she definitely would; if they go the same way as the OG there, we need to remember that Cloud did not understand Aerith, which could explain some stuff.

 

[Yoru]

Someone pointed out to me that there may be 2 Aeriths in the goodbye scene, which, if true, may be a mix of the true Aerith caring about her friends and Cloud's own delusion and illusional world, once again. I have to rewatch this scene, but I do think it's possible that there might be some fckery by SE there. It would certainly explain some details pointed out by Max. Let's not forget that in this illusionary world, Aerith would act the same way Cloud thinks she would, not the way she definitely would; if they go the same way as the OG there, we need to remember that Cloud did not understand Aerith, which could explain some stuff.

Don't know if it was me, but that's my take on it. I'm not 100% sure of it yet, need to play again the last chapter.

But as you mentioned, the "creepy" Aerith, really is. I can't imagine someone watching this scene to think "wow so wholesome" but again, to each their own I guess.

That's why I'm kinda on board with Max theory, even tho a large part of his observations are a bit too far fetched imo. That's why I tried to fit this "2 Aerith" theory.

• The one we see when Cloud is watching, and the ending scene show pefectly how she's not there when he's doing something else, who is some sort of Sephiroth/Jenova twisting his mind (and again i'm NOT saying this is Jenova, just she's toying with Cloud's projection of alive Aerith)
• The one we see saying "Goodbye" when nobody is here to see. Nothing much else to say. She's only here for the player to see. She is our Aerith watching over us.

 

[Stiggie]

Honestly, I don't get why they didn't just play Aeriths survival straight. If they wanted us to have the same experience as in the original, then don't do any weird whisper stuff except maybe the slightest HINT that something is off about the events in remake, but just play the remake completely straight, basically the way Rebirth does, until in the city of the ancients Cloud just straight up blocks Sephiroths attack. Or hell, do the changing of destiny thing with a straight face and have Cloud seemingly obviously defy destiny. With the one change being that afterwards the discerning viewer will notice that no one is addressing Aerith directly anymore, and everyone seems depressed as hell.

Play it exactly like that one SCRUBS episode where Dan dies. Will be predictable to theory crafters, but to a normal person doing a playthrough they would have no clue, and it's a strong narrative, none the worse for having been used before. Have Cloud and Aeriths interactions get weirder and weirder in part 3 until Cloud mentally breaks, and Aerith seems suddenly gone.
Maybe do a scene like in the forest where Aerith talks about going to find the promised land to stop Sephiroth, with Cloud talking about her like she's off somewhere and they gotta follow her, while everyone else knows she's dead as fuck and are disturbed by how Cloud is acting.
Have it all resolved when Tifa fixes Clouds psyche, use nibelheim to show that Aerith was looking for Zack in Cloud, and then if you want to have a spiritual team up with Zack and Aerith V sephiroth (which was a cool idea), DO IT AT THE CLIMAX OF THE GAME, not 5 minutes after her death.
I'd still rather have a 1-to-1 remake, but atleast this story would be one where you understand the events happening to some degree, and understand the twist.

A good twist is when something happens you don't expect, but that you should have expected had you really been paying attention. What we have now is not an unknown answer, but a bunch of possible answers, and the reason we don't know which it is is simply because we don't have the information, and it could be any of the, so when the twist is "well, this answer was the correct one", you just go "ok.....". There is no sudden "OH, SO THATS' WHY!?" moment that makes twists fun.

 

[CldS7]

Honestly, I don't get why they didn't just play Aeriths survival straight. If they wanted us to have the same experience as in the original, then don't do any weird whisper stuff except maybe the slightest HINT that something is off about the events in remake, but just play the remake completely straight, basically the way Rebirth does, until in the city of the ancients Cloud just straight up blocks Sephiroths attack. Or hell, do the changing of destiny thing with a straight face and have Cloud seemingly obviously defy destiny. With the one change being that afterwards the discerning viewer will notice that no one is addressing Aerith directly anymore, and everyone seems depressed as hell.

Play it exactly like that one SCRUBS episode where Dan dies. Will be predictable to theory crafters, but to a normal person doing a playthrough they would have no clue, and it's a strong narrative, none the worse for having been used before. Have Cloud and Aeriths interactions get weirder and weirder in part 3 until Cloud mentally breaks, and Aerith seems suddenly gone.
Maybe do a scene like in the forest where Aerith talks about going to find the promised land to stop Sephiroth, with Cloud talking about her like she's off somewhere and they gotta follow her, while everyone else knows she's dead as fuck and are disturbed by how Cloud is acting.
Have it all resolved when Tifa fixes Clouds psyche, use nibelheim to show that Aerith was looking for Zack in Cloud, and then if you want to have a spiritual team up with Zack and Aerith V sephiroth (which was a cool idea), DO IT AT THE CLIMAX OF THE GAME, not 5 minutes after her death.
I'd still rather have a 1-to-1 remake, but atleast this story would be one where you understand the events happening to some degree, and understand the twist.

A good twist is when something happens you don't expect, but that you should have expected had you really been paying attention. What we have now is not an unknown answer, but a bunch of possible answers, and the reason we don't know which it is is simply because we don't have the information, and it could be any of the, so when the twist is "well, this answer was the correct one", you just go "ok.....". There is no sudden "OH, SO THATS' WHY!?" moment that makes twists fun.

the issue is they literally only did this to create discourse for the next game whilst it gets answered immediately in the next one within the first hour

its like how Aerith's memories being absorbed by the Whispers so she forgets everything was literally told to us within the first 30 minutes

I hate it

 

[Yoru]

Honestly, I don't get why they didn't just play Aeriths survival straight. If they wanted us to have the same experience as in the original, then don't do any weird whisper stuff except maybe the slightest HINT that something is off about the events in remake, but just play the remake completely straight, basically the way Rebirth does, until in the city of the ancients Cloud just straight up blocks Sephiroths attack. Or hell, do the changing of destiny thing with a straight face and have Cloud seemingly obviously defy destiny. With the one change being that afterwards the discerning viewer will notice that no one is addressing Aerith directly anymore, and everyone seems depressed as hell.

Play it exactly like that one SCRUBS episode where Dan dies. Will be predictable to theory crafters, but to a normal person doing a playthrough they would have no clue, and it's a strong narrative, none the worse for having been used before. Have Cloud and Aeriths interactions get weirder and weirder in part 3 until Cloud mentally breaks, and Aerith seems suddenly gone.
Maybe do a scene like in the forest where Aerith talks about going to find the promised land to stop Sephiroth, with Cloud talking about her like she's off somewhere and they gotta follow her, while everyone else knows she's dead as fuck and are disturbed by how Cloud is acting.
Have it all resolved when Tifa fixes Clouds psyche, use nibelheim to show that Aerith was looking for Zack in Cloud, and then if you want to have a spiritual team up with Zack and Aerith V sephiroth (which was a cool idea), DO IT AT THE CLIMAX OF THE GAME, not 5 minutes after her death.
I'd still rather have a 1-to-1 remake, but atleast this story would be one where you understand the events happening to some degree, and understand the twist.

A good twist is when something happens you don't expect, but that you should have expected had you really been paying attention. What we have now is not an unknown answer, but a bunch of possible answers, and the reason we don't know which it is is simply because we don't have the information, and it could be any of the, so when the twist is "well, this answer was the correct one", you just go "ok.....". There is no sudden "OH, SO THATS' WHY!?" moment that makes twists fun.

Agree with your ideas for a good twist. Thing is I think it was not their intention. What they wanted to depict is the illusion of choice and the fatality of Aerith journey. It's the game telling the player "She has to die and you can't do shit about it"

Could they have done a better job to show it ? Absolutely. But the timelines thing has gone to everyone's head a bit too much and a lot of people are just going too wild with their imagination.

 

[GamerSkull]

Sorry to bring this back up again but I just saw a take that said “the promise” was a guilt trip by Tifa to Cloud and that’s all it ever was.

Sigh. I think this is the same way I feel about some extreme Clotis too.

The bad faith mischaracterization is just… annoying for both girls.