SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
It’s funny. If these payoffs go nowhere, I might retroactively dislike FF7. It would be weird to suddenly feel like a game I find to be so beloved fills me with distaste. If the reading I originally got from the story is completely not what they were going for, then why did I like it in the first place?

I think my brain would implode because I could not fathom my media literacy was that poor if this turns out to be the case.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
It’s funny. If these payoffs go nowhere, I might retroactively dislike FF7. It would be weird to suddenly feel like a game I find to be so beloved fills me with distaste. If the reading I originally got from the story is completely not what they were going for, then why did I like it in the first place?

I think my brain would implode because I could not fathom my media literacy was that poor if this turns out to be the case.

I was ok to be open minded when we only had OG and AC.

But after ToTP and Rebirth ? Bro it's treason. I don't care about any justification lol.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I was ok to be open minded when we only had OG and AC.

But after ToTP and Rebirth ? Bro it's treason. I don't care about any justification lol.
It's just why build up the relationship like that in the remake trilogy especially it's been crazy how developed it is in part 2 alone. Then release a book about her saying it's the kind of like where you want to be with them forever. If you want to abandon all that set up to have player choice?? It wouldn't make sense some people would lose out on the actual story development.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
When Zack was sitting at the church, Sephiroth didn't seem to acknowledge Zack's existence when he was walking up the steps to the church. Even when Zack gets his attention, Sephiroth doesn't seem to care and banishes him to the other dimension. Based on that, Sephiroth gave an impression that Zack is not of importance or use to him.

How do you think Sephiroth could use Zack against Aerith?
It's not really about Zack, it's about ensuring there are more worlds that Sephiroth can destroy, thus creating more possibilities where he wins. By manipulating Aerith into creating her own possibility at the Midgar Expressway, Sephiroth is able to taint it with his own influence, adding to the number of worlds he's destroyed.

It's best to think of it like a probability game. The more worlds Sephiroth destroys, the more influence and power over the LS he has. Not even Aerith's own "dream" is safe because she let him in. He is an inevitability even within her own possibility, which is exactly what he wants. It doesn't matter if Zack is there or not, Zack is just a pawn to get Aerith to act on her desires.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
I was ok to be open minded when we only had OG and AC.

But after ToTP and Rebirth ? Bro it's treason. I don't care about any justification lol.
Cant completely rule it out, but it would be the weirdest heel turn I’ve ever seen come out of FF.

Even the OG queues up Tifa if you notice how much she’s brought up during certain instances (I won’t tell Tifa this, poor Tifa that) so it doesn’t come completely out of nowhere. You also didn’t have 80 hours before the reveals.

If they were going to call some shots, Rebirth was the game to do it… and I just don’t see CA getting any further than a kiss goodbye on the cheek when it’s all said and done.

Any scenes to push Cloud and Aerith’s romantic future either had the specter of Zack looking over it or language that very much says “I just need comfort right now”.

Will they have the conviction to make it clear where everyone sits by the end of all this? Time will tell I guess. I’d argue they don’t have time not to, but SE is gonna SE.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I've seen some Aerith fans pointing out that the last time she did say goodbye to Cloud, the next scene in the forest she was like "hey long time no see" and so her last goodbye in the ending is waiting for its "long time no see" couterpart in part 3.

And I think I would be pissed lol. I just hate this idea of Aerith being around like nothing happened. She already has way more importance than in OG. I don't want FF7 to be about her only to be honest.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I've seen some Aerith fans pointing out that the last time she did say goodbye to Cloud, the next scene in the forest she was like "hey long time no see" and so her last goodbye in the ending is waiting for its "long time no see" couterpart in part 3.

And I think I would be pissed lol. I just hate this idea of Aerith being around like nothing happened. She already has way more importance than in OG. I don't want FF7 to be about her only to be honest.
I cannot take another 473944738 goodbyes!!!! This is the worst idea I've ever heard, I'm gonna scream lmao
 

overheat28

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Overheat
It's not really about Zack, it's about ensuring there are more worlds that Sephiroth can destroy, thus creating more possibilities where he wins. By manipulating Aerith into creating her own possibility at the Midgar Expressway, Sephiroth is able to taint it with his own influence, adding to the number of worlds he's destroyed.

It's best to think of it like a probability game. The more worlds Sephiroth destroys, the more influence and power over the LS he has. Not even Aerith's own "dream" is safe because she let him in. He is an inevitability even within her own possibility, which is exactly what he wants. It doesn't matter if Zack is there or not, Zack is just a pawn to get Aerith to act on her desires.

Seems like a good explanation about why omni-Aerith doesn't interact with Zack, despite presumably knowing he's back. She knows Sephiroth's game to a certain degree, I would assume.

If it was Remake Aerith that saved Zack then omni-Aerith would stay out of the way to avoid giving Sephiroth what he wants. Now that Rebirth Aerith is "dead" and she presumably has all her memories again she likely knows Zack was "saved" and the chess game takes on a new dimension. Zack assuming a more active role alongside Aerith to combat Sephiroth inside the LS.
 
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GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I also think part of the issue is having to wait. Don’t get me wrong, I understand why and of course the devs aren’t miracle workers. And they are putting in amazing work on each of these…

But the OG was one story from beginning to end. Whereas, with the story split and a huge gap between them… there’s a lot more room for doubt and whether or not the story is going to conclude all the characters’ arcs satisfactorily.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
there’s a lot more room for doubt and whether or not the story is going to conclude all the characters’ arcs satisfactorily.

The problem with subverting expectations is that you have to confuse the situation. And most of the time, by committing heavily enough on one side of the spectrum to avoid showing your hand. But when comes the plot twist, you make all your characters look horrible in retrospect. This is almost always the case.

That's why it's always a bad idea to use this storytelling mechanic with love stories. Because the surprise loser will always have a bitter taste in his mouth.

So I really don't think it will be the case.

Cloud relation with Tifa at the end of the game will be ambiguous at worst.

Words used in ToTP and 2K gils are way too powerful. You can't come back from that to be honest. Except if one of them has to die, you can't close this relationship with just a "too bad, it won't work out in the end"
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
It’s funny. If these payoffs go nowhere, I might retroactively dislike FF7. It would be weird to suddenly feel like a game I find to be so beloved fills me with distaste. If the reading I originally got from the story is completely not what they were going for, then why did I like it in the first place?

I think my brain would implode because I could not fathom my media literacy was that poor if this turns out to be the case.
Nah. Nojima has a conviction and he's ready to kill headcanons. He already did in Remake and Rebirth, I see no reason why p3 should be any different.

When I read TKaA, I just couldn't put it down because it was so good - same with ToTP. He knows where he's going and the work he has to do to present the "ultimate version of FFVII". The one you can't really run with headcanons but he's decided that these characters he loves should stop being disfigured. He's become a really good writer. P3 will be fine.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
That’s what decades of SE being weird about what should be pretty straightforward will do.

I see a kiss between Cloud and Tifa, feel like we’re finally just going for it… but whisper in the back of my mind still says “they will always leave room for doubt”
I do think the kiss move was a big power play and i don't see how they can't followup on that with bigger stuff now.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I do think the kiss move was a big power play and i don't see how they can't followup on that with bigger stuff now.
The kiss is a foreshadow of what’s to come in p3. I did think and tell Peko after Remake: “well you know what, it’s weird because Nojima pushed for a hug in Remake, but because of the hug I’m expecting a kiss in Rebirth because… they have to go up. But like, isn’t it too early for a kiss?!”

That was my reasoning, that after the hug they could only up the intimacy and go with a kiss. Because from a writing POV, it makes sense to go up with your main pair. I just didn’t see how it could work given the story.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Nah. Nojima has a conviction and he's ready to kill headcanons. He already did in Remake and Rebirth, I see no reason why p3 should be any different.

When I read TKaA, I just couldn't put it down because it was so good - same with ToTP. He knows where he's going and the work he has to do to present the "ultimate version of FFVII". The one you can't really run with headcanons but he's decided that these characters he loves should stop being disfigured. He's become a really good writer. P3 will be fine.
Yeah, hoping so. The setups are there.

I do think the kiss move was a big power play and i don't see how they can't followup on that with bigger stuff now.
Yeah, even as fanservice, it’s still a pretty big deal that they chose to have them kiss when they could have still made it romantic without one.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I am sitting on your shoulder. I am chanting "do it, do it do it."
Alright, fine. "And just like the religious kind, she's also made up."

Pretty nearly.
Everything but the words "common sense" perhaps.

In Soviet Russia LTD Threads, sanity break you.
Okay Yakov.

Then fired up the integrated retro rockets and launched into space from the other side of the planet.
Those would be booster rockets if they were to continue in the direction of travel. Retro rockets are so called because they fire in opposition to motion- in retrograde.

You folks in this here thread who routinely check yourselves, asking if you're biased, if you're reading the text wrong, etc. Know that the people Ryu and I are reminiscing about have never done this even once.
Some even took opposition as evidence they were correct all along because if the evil Clotis said it was wrong it had to be right.

Kikwi, that's the one. Yes, they are too are little fuckers, albeit less so than modern Koroks.

I kinda wanna turn Link loose in 40k and see how long he lasts now btw.
Immune to the horrors of the warp, probably just fucking roll with whatever shit a chaos god might throw at him, I don't know if he'd make a dent, but I think he'd live. Now, Speedrun link? He carves a fucking swath.

A sadly common type.
Agreed.

I mean even going full guerilla warfare on Namek, he couldn't keep quiet for long.
Quiet means not screaming until just before you hit someone to Vegeta.

No reason not to after all.
I still have friends who boggle to consider the idea that I was born. From parents.

I believe I've seen you and Tres accurately predict how it would next mutate in the near future for some such lies.
There's usually a common mutation vector for lies and exaggerations, especially ones you know the source for an impetus behind. We know the impetus (Dismissing the C/T Kiss by any means necessary) but not the source for the claim that hand holding is a bigger deal than kissing.

Not t the Housing Rights Debate you thought you'd see, eh kids?
When your domicile is technically alive it complicates things.

When the entire battlefield stops to stare incredulously, you know you've fucked up.
I think even pink hell sort of tried to gray rock him after a time.

It really is.
Like with Merch, other game appearances, the fucking Artnia cafe menu, none of it says what they wish it to.

In my day it was all ribbons or tetra elementals.
Both good options.

Good old tribalism. You're either with us or you can die with the rest kinda shit.
Also, they're constantly looking for an excuse to make you die like the rest because it feels good to them. People just want a fucking excuse to be outraged. Like a few months back a youtuber got caught out plagiarizing basically his entire body of work from other sources, and he went to ground and pretended to commit suicide. People got mad at the account that made a video cataloging his plagiarism with sources for being so bas as to "drive him to suicide" despite, you know, the man being a complete fraud including faking his suicide.

You would expect characters like Tifa and Cait to angst more if the party had actually killed this many troopers.
Hence why I'm pretty sure most of them are wounded and incapped rather than killed.

Small correction: the dates aren't 'fanservice'. If they really were, then why didn't they give Aerith a kiss aswell?
The dates are outside of canon, but are true depictions of the characters within. "If they were together at these moments, this is what would happen" sort of things.

my bad, fixed it, thanks
No problem. It's a busy timeline, and this involved knowing any details about before crisis.

having a larger following doesn't mean your word is more valuable than someone else's, I'm sure you know that already, but it's just something I felt I should say to try and put your mind at ease.

and also, if it actually was a confession, that's even worse, because Cloud's answer is 100% deflection then. His reaction was essentially: "Why are you acting weird today?" to a confession? I don't buy it

Which is a far cry from Cloud's reaction to Tifa saying she could be getting ahead of herself in regards to what they are to each other.
Yeah, if it's Aerith's confession, then she either got rejected or completely misunderstood.

Was there ever given logic for this thing? Or was it always just Cleriths ignoring if people asked "what about Cloud moving on?"
No logic at all. At most "It's different because it's Aerith." To which the follow up answer is "You're right, it is different. Because she had known Zack for years and waited for five years before trying to move on and then immediately falling into the emotion trap of a man who in her own words was "just like" her first love, whereas Cloud knew Aerith for all of two weeks and was in love with another girl before, during and after his time of knowing her." And at that point the metaphorical hands cover the metaphorical ears and discussion stops.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
https://www.reddit.com/r/cloti/comments/1co45w1 This persons theory sounds too good to be true though it would tie up so many hints for both
games and let us catch up with Marle and that in the slums in a narratively sound way
But it has also reminded me that Andrea is Very much linked to Tifa,
  • asking Cloud if he has found what he was looking for and to never let it go (Tifa)
  • The Sidequest in the Gym with Tifa
  • Speaking to him in gold saucer mentions wanting her on stage
  • Cloud saying well maybe you could be on the stage next time
  • Andrea and Madam M piano quest in Costa de Sol
Either way theres gonna be something with Andrea and Tifa related in Part 3 with all these hints.
A date before Highwind would be such a good moment to give us that Remake nostalgia as well.
Then build up to the actual event in a satisfying way
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
https://www.reddit.com/r/cloti/comments/1co45w1 This persons theory sounds too good to be true though it would tie up so many hints for both
games and let us catch up with Marle and that in the slums in a narratively sound way
But it has also reminded me that Andrea is Very much linked to Tifa,
  • asking Cloud if he has found what he was looking for and to never let it go (Tifa)
  • The Sidequest in the Gym with Tifa
  • Speaking to him in gold saucer mentions wanting her on stage
  • Cloud saying well maybe you could be on the stage next time
  • Andrea and Madam M piano quest in Costa de Sol
Either way theres gonna be something with Andrea and Tifa related in Part 3 with all these hints.
A date before Highwind would be such a good moment to give us that Remake nostalgia as well.
Then build up to the actual event in a satisfying way
Cloud and Tifa getting more of a day together makes a lot of sense. Someone also pointed out that this could be when you can go to Wall Market to get Tifa’s ultimate weapon ( maybe as a reward for acing all the things you can do? )

Still not sold on Tifa having a pop idol moment, mainly from a character perspective, but I wouldn’t hate it. Cloud getting roped in would be funny, Andrea strikes me as someone who’d know that’s the only way Cloud’s doing a repeat performance.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Cloud and Tifa getting more of a day together makes a lot of sense. Someone also pointed out that this could be when you can go to Wall Market to get Tifa’s ultimate weapon ( maybe as a reward for acing all the things you can do? )

Still not sold on Tifa having a pop idol moment, mainly from a character perspective, but I wouldn’t hate it. Cloud getting roped in would be funny, Andrea strikes me as someone who’d know that’s the only way Cloud’s doing a repeat performance.
I think her playing Piano on stage would work. I would have never thought about it but theres so many hints to her having something on stage
 
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