SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

I'm not trying to be harsh or judgemental here. I just think the original depiction of the characters portrays their flaws as they are - flaws. Things that make them a little bit ugly. These are things that make me like them more, not less. Sometimes shit is a little complicated, and things aren't so black and white. I think that's cool.

The fandom could never really seem to handle these ideas without being super toxic about it though. I think also, as the series has gotten more franchised, the creators have had a desire lean into more archetypal/heroic depictions of the characters. Fan reaction + marketability strikes me as a lot of the motive behind this. I personally find this rather unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Yeah, this part specifically is something that I've often found really odd in terms of the fandom. Tifa was the popular girl and Cloud was kinda ostracized... therefore she has to be punished for that forever in the eyes of the certain parts of the fandom. Same goes for Aerith and Zack and other characters. They do one thing that might be questionable and suddenly they are scum of the earth to some people.

Characters being flawed is what make them compelling. And having flaws that cause them to make mistakes don't necessarily make them bad people. They can't all be virtuous 100% of the time. It's quite human.

 

[Rin]

Here’s hoping. They have quite a bit to cover in Part 3 so that arc needs sufficient conclusion.

It'll get it, for sure. Will it be GOOD? Idk lol but it'll get it.

I hope so but wouldn't they make more money by giving something to both sides. I still see CT/ZA as endgame tho.

Make more money? No, probably not. Despite the way it seems bc of the LTD, the ships aren't really the financial driving force behind FF7. But even if it was, Tifa is their best selling character--she even outdoes Cloud in popularity polls. Practically all the Rebirth game reviews were filled with gushing about how perfect Tifa was, how she was the standout, how her relationship with Cloud really shined, etc.

Nojima even said he gave CT a kiss because he knew the fans had been imagining it for over 27 years. Nomura said they sped up the trajectory of CTs relationship in Rebirth because players needed to understand how they feel for each other to properly execute part 3.

I'm not saying that Cloud and Aerith are never going to interact again because they absolutely will, but the romantic aspect of that relationship has reached its conclusion and not just because she's dead. Nevertheless, even if Cloud and Aerith just stand beside each other in the LS, shippers are gonna say it's the happiest he's ever looked even if he's wearing a completely blank face lol

 

[GamerSkull]

It'll get it, for sure. Will it be GOOD? Idk lol but it'll get it.


Make more money? No, probably not. Despite the way it seems bc of the LTD, the ships aren't really the financial driving force behind FF7. But even if it was, Tifa is their best selling character--she even outdoes Cloud in popularity polls. Practically all the Rebirth game reviews were filled with gushing about how perfect Tifa was, how she was she standout, how her relationship with Cloud really shined, etc.

Nojima even said he gave CT a kiss because he knew the fans had been imagining it for over 27 years. Nomura said they sped up the trajectory of CTs relationship in Rebirth because players needed to understand how they feel for each other to properly execute part 3.

I'm not saying that Cloud and Aerith are never going to interact again because they absolutely will, but the romantic aspect of that relationship has reached its conclusion and not just because she's dead. Nevertheless, even if Cloud and Aerith just stand beside each other in the LS, shippers are gonna say it's the happiest he's ever looked even if he's wearing a completely blank face lol

Yeah, a majority of FF7 fans don't actually care about the LTD. Perhaps they have their biases but most just accept the story as is. The people that take part in the LTD are probably just really loud (and this goes for both sides) that often it might seem like it is the sole contributing factor in the popularity of FF7 when it's probably closer to 15-20% if even that.

 

[Yoru]

re: Zack's multiple girlfriends.

One thing the Compilation does that I truly dislike is that it really... wipes the characters clean of their more complicated or unlikeable attributes.

Zack being a player but especially loving Aerith isn't something out of this world. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts. His screen time in the OG is limited, but the man spent the last five years in a test tube and was still thinking of her - that has got to count for something.

Cloud having feelings for two women is incredibly normal. There's plenty to indicate that he does. The text in the OG implies there is more conscious intention when lying to emulate his dead womanizer friend. Cloud himself does his own version womanizing between Aerith and Tifa, but like... stupidly, though lmao. I'm not denying that he ends up with Tifa here btw, thats a no brainer at this point.

OG Tifa, despite being closest to the "real" Cloud, 1000% projects onto him an idea of a "knight in shining armour." Which unintentionally fuels the insecurities that drives much of the main plot's conflict.

OG Aerith isn't exactly the beacon of sensitivity. Her personality sometimes leads to people's feelings getting hurt, and there are times when she just can't read the room.

Aerith and Tifa can be friends but also have petty jealousies towards each other. That's completely normal within friendships. Especially when they like the same guy - it'd be kind of weird if they didn't.

I'm not trying to be harsh or judgemental here. I just think the original depiction of the characters portrays their flaws as they are - flaws. Things that make them a little bit ugly. These are things that make me like them more, not less. Sometimes shit is a little complicated, and things aren't so black and white. I think that's cool.

The fandom could never really seem to handle these ideas without being super toxic about it though. I think also, as the series has gotten more franchised, the creators have had a desire lean into more archetypal/heroic depictions of the characters. Fan reaction + marketability strikes me as a lot of the motive behind this. I personally find this rather unfortunate, but it is what it is.

also, @Yoru I'm really not trying to hyper fixate on the LTD tbh I'm more just trying to stay on topic while also generally complain why I really dislike how this version depicts these characters. Believe me, I really am not much of a shipper, I'm just using it is the angle for which I'm entering into complain mode lmao. I could easily go into my annoyances about Barret/Yuffie/Red/Turks/etc, or even talk about Cloud/Tifa/Aerith/Zack without the LTD bent. I'm just trying to keep my thoughts pertinent to the topic because this feels like the safest space where I can air my grievances lmao.

It is my bad then. I didn't make the connection with the fact that we were on the LTD channel and took it as a general criticism. And since you were already talking about it last time from that angle, I kind of took the shortcut that you were super fixated on the romance in the game. I didn't read the room. Really sorry. Still, I don't think talking about routes does you any favors in appreciating this aspect of the game. Because they're not routes. But it's more the game's fault for misrepresenting itself as such than yours.

As for characters flaws... I'm 100% with you in your reasoning. But I think the problem lies in the scale the game has taken on over the years. Given the extent to which these little flaws have been used to mischaracterize several characters over the years, I can understand the designers' desire to reduce the nuances. I think there's nothing more irritating as a writer than to see your characters completely misunderstood. It's a bit like Herbert being depressed when people think of Paul in Dune as a hero, when in fact he's quite the opposite.

So yes, I'm a bit conflicted. On the one hand, I'd like to see characters a little less stereotyped, but on the other... people have been so infamous that... unfortunately it's sad, but you have to get down to their level and talk to them simply...

 

[Sacky]

It is my bad then. I didn't make the connection with the fact that we were on the LTD channel and took it as a general criticism. And since you were already talking about it last time from that angle, I kind of took the shortcut that you were super fixated on the romance in the game. I didn't read the room. Really sorry. Still, I don't think talking about routes does you any favors in appreciating this aspect of the game. Because they're not routes. But it's more the game's fault for misrepresenting itself as such than yours.

As for characters flaws... I'm 100% with you in your reasoning. But I think the problem lies in the scale the game has taken on over the years. Given the extent to which these little flaws have been used to mischaracterize several characters over the years, I can understand the designers' desire to reduce the nuances. I think there's nothing more irritating as a writer than to see your characters completely misunderstood. It's a bit like Herbert being depressed when people think of Paul in Dune as a hero, when in fact he's quite the opposite.

So yes, I'm a bit conflicted. On the one hand, I'd like to see characters a little less stereotyped, but on the other... people have been so infamous that... unfortunately it's sad, but you have to get down to their level and talk to them simply...

people cant actually think Paul is the hero in Dune right plz no XD

 

[abzy1200]

Practically all the Rebirth game reviews were filled with gushing about how perfect Tifa was, how she was the standout, how her relationship with Cloud really shined, etc.

Yeah, at this point, from what I can tell, the majority seem to be invested in Cloud and Tifa, so if they were to backtrack and push Clerith, it would do way more harm than good. Satisfying a couple thousand diehards who spend their days trashing the game and it's characters on twitter in exchange for butchering the story that people are currently invested in would serve to displease basically everyone besides said diehards, so that's hardly generating more money than simply pleasing the majority and continuing to do what is currently working very well.

If Square Enix really want to butter a group up with part 3...it'll be the majority who are already enjoying the trajectory that Rebirth set rather than the vocal minority. I can guarantee to everybody here that a Clerith 180 wouldn't make people go "ooooh it all makes sense now!" like in the original with Cloti and the LS, it would be up there with Tidus kicking a bomb for bad moments in Final Fantasy. It's simply too late to push Clerith even the slightest bit without making people go "wait...what about Tifa? Why did they get me so invested in Cloti and Tifa in general if Square are just going to characterize her as someone who tries so hard for a man that doesn't respect her, her feelings, and her efforts for him? And why would they promote Cloud as a hero if he's such an asshole?", that is how the public will see Clerith in part 3 if it really happens or is serviced even the smallest bit. Whether Cleriths like it or not, everyone saw that kiss, and that is what people are going to remember going into part 3.

 

[Yoru]

people cant actually think Paul is the hero in Dune right plz no XD

(That's why he wrote the second book in the first place. Because people didn't get the message lol)

So I think I understand why Nojima is in war with bad takes. Sure it simplifies his characters. But dude seems so tired of it all. The Crisis Core quote from Ultimania is pretty telling lmao. "No it is not what I said..." energy is off the charts.

 

[Rin]

re: Zack's multiple girlfriends.

One thing the Compilation does that I truly dislike is that it really... wipes the characters clean of their more complicated or unlikeable attributes.

Zack being a player but especially loving Aerith isn't something out of this world. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts. His screen time in the OG is limited, but the man spent the last five years in a test tube and was still thinking of her - that has got to count for something.

Cloud having feelings for two women is incredibly normal. There's plenty to indicate that he does. The text in the OG implies there is more conscious intention when lying to emulate his dead womanizer friend. Cloud himself does his own version womanizing between Aerith and Tifa, but like... stupidly, though lmao. I'm not denying that he ends up with Tifa here btw, thats a no brainer at this point.

OG Tifa, despite being closest to the "real" Cloud, 1000% projects onto him an idea of a "knight in shining armour." Which unintentionally fuels the insecurities that drives much of the main plot's conflict.

OG Aerith isn't exactly the beacon of sensitivity. Her personality sometimes leads to people's feelings getting hurt, and there are times when she just can't read the room.

Aerith and Tifa can be friends but also have petty jealousies towards each other. That's completely normal within friendships. Especially when they like the same guy - it'd be kind of weird if they didn't.

I'm not trying to be harsh or judgemental here. I just think the original depiction of the characters portrays their flaws as they are - flaws. Things that make them a little bit ugly. These are things that make me like them more, not less. Sometimes shit is a little complicated, and things aren't so black and white. I think that's cool.

The fandom could never really seem to handle these ideas without being super toxic about it though. I think also, as the series has gotten more franchised, the creators have had a desire lean into more archetypal/heroic depictions of the characters. Fan reaction + marketability strikes me as a lot of the motive behind this. I personally find this rather unfortunate, but it is what it is.

also, @Yoru I'm really not trying to hyper fixate on the LTD tbh I'm more just trying to stay on topic while also generally complain why I really dislike how this version depicts these characters. Believe me, I really am not much of a shipper, I'm just using it is the angle for which I'm entering into complain mode lmao. I could easily go into my annoyances about Barret/Yuffie/Red/Turks/etc, or even talk about Cloud/Tifa/Aerith/Zack without the LTD bent. I'm just trying to keep my thoughts pertinent to the topic because this feels like the safest space where I can air my grievances lmao.

I agree and it's really annoying for me as well, but I try to accept it at face value and just roll with it. The fandom really can't handle complex emotions or their favourite characters making mistakes at all, which is why they've all become so .... "bland" in a way. Like they aren't actually bland and I'm still really invested in them and happy to see they've retained some flaws, but some of the flaws that made them super interesting are gone now because the fandom couldn't handle them lol

Did I like OG Aerith? No, not really but that's okay. If she remained as she was in the OG, I'd shrug cause that's just her personality. I don't have to like every single character. Similarly, there are things OG Tifa did that I didn't like and found off putting as well, but again that's ok. Unfortunately, most people can't accept that certain characters, storylines, or games as a whole aren't their cup of tea so they try to twist and bend everything to be even worse as a way of making themselves feel better lol.

Do I care if Zack was a playboy with multiple gfs before Aerith? No. But since the fandom is hellbent on believing he's a playboy w/ multiple gfs even AFTER getting with Aerith, Nojima had to go so far out of his way to prove them wrong, which completely retconned that aspect of Zack in the process.

And so many of the characters suffer from this all because the fandom can't be normal about them and their nuances. It's frustrating.

Whether Cleriths like it or not, everyone saw that kiss, and that is what people are going to remember going into part 3.

Yup, this is why they talk about it every day and go to extreme lengths to discredit it even though none of it sticks which is why they try a new tactic every 3-5 business days lol

 

[Yoru]

And why would they promote Cloud as a hero if he's such an asshole?

What do you mean ? lmao ! He's just got a bit of rizz. Nothing is wrong with it ! What matters is that he's only eyes for his true love Aerith.

Spoiler

 

[Eerie]

OK, the quotes I am using are translated by pereden on Twitter; in 2020 she stumbled upon a thread on a Korean forum listing absolutely all the CT quotes, so she made her own Twitter thread with them. I am only showing my screenshots of the translations, but if people want to see, I also have the original text that she put there. I think it will give people some perspective on why I am so freaking confident about p3.

These quotes, to me, show what we can expect of part 3 for CT. I'm trying to put them in order, and I might have to make several posts because I think we are limited in how many we can use at once in one post.

1. The Northern Crater:

OG quote and Final Fantasy VII Ultimania OMEGA
I was thinking about this yesterday because I was watching Whimsy Psyche and catching up with her Let's Play (I really recommend her, she's able to put so much stuff together with just Remake and Rebirth, it's quite impressive). And at some point she said (paraphrasing): "I don't know anything about Cloud, what he likes or dislikes, except his feelings for Tifa, that's the only thing he always falls back on". And again to me, Remake and Rebirth show how much Tifa's opinion counts for Cloud. It's not only "counting", it's that his whole being relies on Tifa's trust in him. In the OG, it came out of the blue, but I believe the Remake trilogy has changed that and if you pay really attention, you will see it:

• in Remake Cloud often tries to catch Tifa's attention with the slums rules for example, he's able to memorise those rules to reuse them;
• in Rebirth it's especially visible in dialogues like Under Junon, but in other parts too like the sidequests and Gongaga.

So the Northern Crater will have this kind of dialogue where suddenly, after the rift we definitely will have at the start of the game, Cloud will reiterate his need for Tifa to have faith in him. And I think given the way Aerith's death has been treated that this rift that has been created will serve as fuel because Tifa will be lost until Cloud says that. To me, it is the moment that gives Tifa hope again that he is Cloud, and sends her on the search for Cloud.

2. Mideel

Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania
In Mideel, when the gang finally finds Cloud, Tifa's love is tested, and she chose to stay by Cloud's side, even though he is mako poisoned and far gone at this point. And we will have to learn that it's because of Tifa that Cloud awakes at the train station and in Mideel; this has already been shown in Rebirth, that Cloud needs Tifa on a much deeper level than many can grasp:

• in the alternate worlds the Cloud there doesn't awaken because there is no Tifa: the only time that happens, Aerith sends "our" Cloud to her dream world, and we can see he somehow senses those alternate worlds when dreaming, especially in the Tonberry bedroom in the GS;
• in Gongaga, he is going back to his mako poisoned state after attacking Tifa and believing she's lost; it takes Barret to yell that Tifa is there to make him move (groggily), and when he sees her is when he's back.

So in a way this has already been demonstrated but a lot of people didn't pay attention: this is definitely coming back to p3, through the train station scene and of course....

3. The Lifestream scene

Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania
This right here is one of the reason why I tell people that the Lifestream scene is a romantic scene (that, and I perceived it myself as such in my first playthrough; but it's good to be backed up). The Lifestream scene is coming and it is a very special scene, as it is Kitase and Nomura's favourite. So let's see what we will see there and maybe be expanded upon:

Final Fantasy VII Ultimania OMEGA and Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII The Complete Guide
So these quotes show two similar things: why did Cloud ask Tifa to come on the water tower. Answer: it's a dating spot, and she's the girl he likes (and wants to impress). He doesn't want to become like Sephiroth, all he wants is to tell Tifa "I want to become your special person" (yes, from 2K gils... and I think we also might see that in the Lifestream).

(cont)

 

[abzy1200]

"I don't know anything about Cloud, what he likes or dislikes, except his feelings for Tifa, that's the only thing he always falls back on". And again to me, Remake and Rebirth show how much Tifa's opinion counts for Cloud. It's not only "counting", it's that his whole being relies on Tifa's trust in him. In the OG, it came out of the blue, but I believe the Remake trilogy has changed that and if you pay really attention, you will see it:

• in Remake Cloud often tries to catch Tifa's attention with the slums rules for example, he's able to memorise those rules to reuse them;
• in Rebirth it's especially visible in dialogues like Under Junon, but in other parts too like the sidequests and Gongaga.

Never forget...

 

[Yoru]

Never forget...

View attachment 16749

It reminds me of a video compilation where every time Tifa gasps, Cloud has a dialogue in response. I was like "Either this is the most far fetched thing in the world, or it's the most detailed game in the world. Either way, I'm thrilled."

 

[Rin]

It reminds me of a video compilation where every time Tifa gasps, Cloud has a dialogue in response. I was like "Either this is the most far fetched thing in the world, or it's the most detailed game in the world. Either way, I'm thrilled."

I also thought people were being a little extra about this, but then I decided to play close attention on my hard mode run and.... yep.

Even at the end of the game, Tifa sighs sadly while staring at Aerith's grave and it almost snaps Cloud out of his delusions but then he gets Jenova interference static and "Aerith" pops up next to him. The amount of detail they've put into everything is super impressive.

 

[Eerie]

OK, the quotes I am using are translated by pereden on Twitter; in 2020 she stumbled upon a thread on a Korean forum listing absolutely all the CT quotes, so she made her own Twitter thread with them. I am only showing my screenshots of the translations, but if people want to see, I also have the original text that she put there. I think it will give people some perspective on why I am so freaking confident about p3.



3. The Lifestream scene

(cont)

(sorry I'm afraid of losing my work so xD cont)


Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
This is something that happens during CC and that we see in Rebirth ch1 when Cloud goes to the water tower: he reminisces about the past and, as Pereden explains, is also something we see in the OG Lifestream scene: that his feelings for Tifa are secret, private to him and only him. This is why this scene is not meant to be a group project, it's something really private but a lot of people miss that. Anyway in ch1 when Tifa asked him why he's rather evasive so I thought we might get the truth there, since Cloud has to open up to Tifa.


OG quote
This is about the Mt Nibel fall memory, the one that normally proves that Cloud is Cloud of Nibelheim... except now Tifa knows about this. However, Rebirth has recontextualised the Lifestream being more than memories, but also feelings, hopes and dreams and I believe the Lifestream sequence in the OG is exactly that, and it will be expanded upon through this lens to hammer down the romantic scene. So we might see it again from Cloud's side, because it's such an important, anchoring moment for Cloud. This is the moment no other girl could ever steal Cloud's heart, the moment he became really hyperfixated on Tifa (yes I do believe he had a kid crush on her before but that moment changes everything).


Final Fantasy 25th Memorial Ultimania
We've partly seen that Cloud thought that Tifa was dying there but yes of course, we're going to see the full reveal in its whole glory. This is of course the best moment of the LS scene - the rage he feels is what allows him to kill Sephiroth.

(cont)

 

[Yoru]

I also thought people were being a little extra about this, but then I decided to play close attention on my hard mode run and.... yep.

Even at the end of the game, Tifa sighs sadly while staring at Aerith's grave and it almost snaps Cloud out of his delusions but then he gets Jenova interference static and "Aerith" pops up next to him. The amount of detail they've put into everything is super impressive.

That's why, even if everything isn't perfect, I can't help but love these games. The attention to detail is just out of this world. It's such craftsmanship.

 

[abzy1200]

Nojima even said he gave CT a kiss because he knew the fans had been imagining it for over 27 years

Something else I'd like to this. It might be semantics, or there might be other quotes that contradict my argument, but notice how Nojima says "fans" here, as in, he sees people who support Cloti as "fans". That's important, because it reveals who he thinks he should actually please when writing part 3, if anybody, of course.

Also note that he says "fans have only been able to imagine", not "fans have been anticipating/waiting for/wishing for this for years". Which implies that it happened, but that it wasn't shown, so people had to imagine it instead.

Again, this may just be semantics, but it's something I just wanted to say.

 

[Eerie]

(sorry I'm afraid of losing my work so xD cont)

Final Fantasy 25th Memorial Ultimania
We've partly seen that Cloud thought that Tifa was dying there but yes of course, we're going to see the full reveal in its whole glory. This is of course the best moment of the LS scene - the rage he feels is what allows him to kill Sephiroth.

(cont)

(cont)

4. The Under the Highwind scene

Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania and Final Fantasy 25th Memorial Ultimania vol. 2
Of course after the love confession in the Lifestream (ai) comes the confession that they wouldn't mind being more... physical (koi). This is the last night before the end, so yes, they're going to make memories. And no they're not going to play Queen's Blood xD


Final Fantasy VII Ultimania OMEGA
And I mean, even Yuffie notices it. xD


On the Way to a Smile: Case of Tifa
And to close up onto the existing material, thought that may only be a wish, we miiiiiiiiiiiight see that from the OTWAS, especially if they decide to include a post game epilogue

So how confident am I in CT in p3? The answer is yes. Completely. Totally. because all these moments are going to be expanded upon and we'll probably get other new shiny ones as well. Just think about it.

 

[Eerie]

It reminds me of a video compilation where every time Tifa gasps, Cloud has a dialogue in response. I was like "Either this is the most far fetched thing in the world, or it's the most detailed game in the world. Either way, I'm thrilled."

Fun fact: at the end of Rebirth, when they're all around the lake and the imagery is still very WTF greenish after Aerith's burial, you don't see Aerith there. But Tifa sighs, and that triggers a memory of what truly happened into Cloud's mind. I mmediately, Aerith appears and smiles at him. I absolutely do not believe that this Aerith is "our" Aerith is any way or shape.

Also I forgot to attach this in my previous post (TAT ):



This has been translated by Peko and comes from Final Fantasy Complete Works vol2, and I believe we will have that line too. And yes I do believe we'll have at least a CT if not Avalanche fight against Sephiroth. Because damn. She is his reason of fighting.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

Going by that translation it's NOT true.
He talks about a bunch of people all over (the globe, both men and women), then goes through options for Midgar specifically in his head, thinks about Aerith, and laments that she lives with her mother through a general lamentation of "do all women live with their mother?". Saying there are actually multiple women he's considering is a leap that is not necessary. Since this quote doesn't require it, and both the english version and ALL other products don't corroborate it we can say that most likely Aerith is the only girlfriend he's considering even in the JP version. In fact, he doesn't even use the term girlfriend so even if he were talking about multiple women they could have just been friends.
This is similar to me thinking about my GF and saying something like "man, are all women crazy?", doesn't imply I have more than one.

I wouldn't say it "requires" it, but within the limited context of the OG even, it's a natural way to understand he is considering multiple girls to help him and Cloud. Context here is different than talking about one girl to then inquire about the nature of women through that. The "all over" (あちこち - here and there) I believe would imply contextually still to where they're going currently, as opposed to around the world/globe. Within that last line, I would agree it was written to intentionally allude to Aerith as the basis of his thought process (especially when a more direct translation would be "Oh, which girl also lives with their parents?...")—"also" with Aerith as the base, but the idea he is going from everybody/people -> girls isn't written for the sake of he's just thinking about it as a "lament" or a random general inquiry about the circumstance of women in general, like as a topic, which is a separate topic of the first two lines really (and requires an insertion of layered context that you have to leap over to change the meaning of this line). "Which girl" is within the same topic of everybody/people he just referred to—even if you can interpret he is ultimately thinking of multiple women AND men, women is what gets focused on. I think this idea is still captured in the phrasing of Strangelove's translation, either way. This is also more congruent with the inquisitive nature BentStuff took when referencing the scene as “Fleeing towards Midgar, means intending to be under the care of one of his many female friends [girl friends or girlfriends—ガールフレンド]?” as opposed to "Fleeing towards Midgar, Zack thinks about whether girls generally live with their parents just like Aerith does".

I'm definitely not saying OG Zack HAD multiple romantic relationships, but that within the OG scene in contrast to CC's (if even Rebirth's) narrative, he's considering a number of girls to help him out. Less of a leap and more of seeing a thought process narrowed down. The limited OG context here allows that to be a smooth understanding. Depends on how much you want to argue interpretation of a line—if I'm doing it within the perspective of the scene (and WHEN it's written meta-wise), information about the character (at the time of OG), and putting value in BentStuff's implication, it makes sense.

With that being said, the "girlfriend" inquiry by BentStuff is what actually is the problem for people, though.

The direct "girlfriend" angle specifically came from them, and people ran with that deeper than what even the scene directly says—as you could argue so did BentStuff, but it's justified under what is the typical, more subjective observational approach BentStuff can have when describing things within the game. Passages like this aren't written as fact—it's exactly as it appears to be, inquisitive from them to the reader. Because you can absolutely say the girls are just friends, and move about your day with a whistle, as opposed to, "Oh that means Zack was cheating on a multitude of girls, including Aerith, and playboy, and womanizer, etc. etc." Just like other quotes, it's just easy to take that and run it into the ground. It just doesn't really matter beyond just understanding when it comes to romanticism, Aerith was Zack's only concern.

 

[Yoru]

(cont)

4. The Under the Highwind scene
View attachment 16752 View attachment 16753
Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania and Final Fantasy 25th Memorial Ultimania vol. 2
Of course after the love confession in the Lifestream (ai) comes the confession that they wouldn't mind being more... physical (koi). This is the last night before the end, so yes, they're going to make memories. And no they're not going to play Queen's Blood xD

View attachment 16754
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania OMEGA
And I mean, even Yuffie notices it. xD

View attachment 16756
On the Way to a Smile: Case of Tifa
And to close up onto the existing material, thought that may only be a wish, we miiiiiiiiiiiight see that from the OTWAS, especially if they decide to include a post game epilogue

So how confident am I in CT in p3? The answer is yes. Completely. Totally. because all these moments are going to be expanded upon and we'll probably get other new shiny ones as well. Just think about it.

By the way, reading all your great quotes reminded me of something. I had a revelation. In the Remake, Cloud has to steal Jessie's father's ID card from his room where he's in a vegetative state. So of course, this foreshadows what's going to happen to Cloud... but it also means that Cloud knows what it's like to be in that state. So he'll know that Tifa has decided to stay by his side despite his hopeless condition. That's a pretty strong sign to prove to him how she feels about him, once he's had his head put in the right place, after his stay in the LS.

 

[Sacky]

View attachment 16758

By the way, reading all your great quotes reminded me of something. I had a revelation. In the Remake, Cloud has to steal Jessie's father's ID card from his room where he's in a vegetative state. So of course, this foreshadows what's going to happen to Cloud... but it also means that Cloud knows what it's like to be in that state. So he'll know that Tifa has decided to stay by his side despite his hopeless condition. That's a pretty strong sign to prove to him how she feels about him, once he's had his head put in the right place, after his stay in the LS.

people always leave out Mideel in the context for the lifestream scene but im just as excited for how they break our hearts with the nurses even commenting on Tifa caring for Cloud in Part 3

 

[pxl_pushr]

Fun fact: at the end of Rebirth, when they're all around the lake and the imagery is still very WTF greenish after Aerith's burial, you don't see Aerith there. But Tifa sighs, and that triggers a memory of what truly happened into Cloud's mind. I mmediately, Aerith appears and smiles at him. I absolutely do not believe that this Aerith is "our" Aerith is any way or shape.

Also I forgot to attach this in my previous post (TAT ):

View attachment 16757

This has been translated by Peko and comes from Final Fantasy Complete Works vol2, and I believe we will have that line too. And yes I do believe we'll have at least a CT if not Avalanche fight against Sephiroth. Because damn. She is his reason of fighting.

If characters had a list of “you can never show them in this way” similar to logos and brand stuff, Aerith’s would most definitely read “you can never have her appear out of the shadows”

So yeah, that Aerith in that particular scene isn’t ours.

Also, Tifa is totally going to get a chance to kick Sephiroth’s ass. Dude took too much from her to not get a healthy serving of Final Heaven to the face.

 

[looneymoon]

I agree and it's really annoying for me as well, but I try to accept it at face value and just roll with it. The fandom really can't handle complex emotions or their favourite characters making mistakes at all, which is why they've all become so .... "bland" in a way. Like they aren't actually bland and I'm still really invested in them and happy to see they've retained some flaws, but some of the flaws that made them super interesting are gone now because the fandom couldn't handle them lol

Yeah this is pretty much what I was getting at. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Anyways I finished and I didn't dislike it as much as I thought I did? The last little date thing was very sweet. It felt like closure for whatever Cloud and Aerith's uh... is it fair to call it a situationship? Or whatever? Also, I'm guessing Cloud is crazy now? I don't see how anyone can see all that and think it's pointing towards a Cloud/Aerith endgame.

 

[Yoru]

Yeah this is pretty much what I was getting at. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Anyways I finished and I didn't dislike it as much as I thought I did? The last little date thing was very sweet. It felt like closure for whatever Cloud and Aerith's uh... is it fair to call it a situationship? Or whatever? Also, I'm guessing Cloud is crazy now? I don't see how anyone can see all that and think it's pointing towards a Cloud/Aerith endgame.

Glad you could enjoy it a bit at the end.

From what we saw and if the developpers quotes can be trusted, yeah he's delulu now.

 

[Rin]

Yeah this is pretty much what I was getting at. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Anyways I finished and I didn't dislike it as much as I thought I did? The last little date thing was very sweet. It felt like closure for whatever Cloud and Aerith's uh... is it fair to call it a situationship? Or whatever? Also, I'm guessing Cloud is crazy now? I don't see how anyone can see all that and think it's pointing towards a Cloud/Aerith endgame.

It was definitely closure and the end of Clerith romantically. I'm always surprised to see people having anxiety about CA continuing romantically after that. The point of the date is to close the arc. It wasn't there in the OG which kept the door open, but now the door has been closed.

I'd also say maybe it was a "flirtationship"? Like it never actually goes anywhere so calling it a situationship is giving it more credit than it deserves imo. If you can only get as far as a hand hold.... well.... lol